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Reply #167: No, it wouldn't be 'established'; it already exists [View All]

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #148
167. No, it wouldn't be 'established'; it already exists
The US already has a shortage of donated organs; and they don't go to the highest bidder either.

Would you like organs to go to those who could pay the most for them? Would you like people to be able to sell their organs while they're still alive?
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  -Man refused liver transplant dies in UK (BBC News) jody  Jul-21-09 01:43 PM   #0 
  - Friend of Mitch McConnell?  izquierdista   Jul-21-09 01:45 PM   #1 
  - Yes, where was the concern then  get the red out   Jul-21-09 01:52 PM   #19 
     - There is so much under-reprting in this it has become a lie  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 09:20 PM   #198 
  - Not if he cant do the 6 months dry  Taverner   Jul-21-09 01:45 PM   #2 
  - It seems as though he died before he would have had time to complete six dry months...  warren pease   Jul-21-09 02:48 PM   #64 
  - Isn't that a standard requiement? That you not be likely to immediately destroy the organ...  BlooInBloo   Jul-21-09 01:46 PM   #3 
  - As far as I know - an acquiantance destroyed her liver with booze and drugs and was denied  csziggy   Jul-21-09 03:28 PM   #108 
  - No.  MNDemNY   Jul-21-09 01:46 PM   #4 
  - organs are in short supply and have to be rationed as a result  stray cat   Jul-21-09 01:47 PM   #5 
  - That's essentially my question: WTF does this story have to do with health care reform?  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 01:48 PM   #8 
  - Nothing - someone doesn't understand the lack of organs  stray cat   Jul-21-09 01:49 PM   #10 
  - No health coverage creates money out of thin air, what procedures should be rationed under Obama's  jody   Jul-21-09 01:50 PM   #12 
     - What does that have to do with the article you posted?  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 01:51 PM   #16 
     - They both deal with rationing health care. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 01:55 PM   #23 
        - No. This story is about rationing organs, NOT health care. He wouldn't have received a kidney in  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 01:56 PM   #25 
           - Have a blissful day. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 01:56 PM   #27 
              - So your attempt to portray this as some kind universal healthcare horror story failed  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 01:57 PM   #28 
              - Hahaha... why are you apologizing?  redqueen   Jul-21-09 02:12 PM   #36 
              - My friend's husband has been on the list for a liver for quite some time  dflprincess   Jul-21-09 11:31 PM   #207 
     - The issue here is not lack of money, but shortage of organs  LeftishBrit   Jul-21-09 01:58 PM   #29 
     - The issue is rationing. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:29 PM   #48 
        - Rationing of what? Organs?  LanternWaste   Jul-21-09 03:06 PM   #85 
           - Rationing health care of which transplants are among all medical procedures. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 03:11 PM   #91 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 03:39 PM   #115 
     - money is not the problem with organ donations. supply is the problem.  endarkenment   Jul-21-09 02:17 PM   #41 
     - The issue is rationing. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:29 PM   #49 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 02:54 PM   #73 
        - If the isssue is rationing  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 04:44 PM   #156 
     - way to miss the point  quakerboy   Jul-21-09 02:27 PM   #46 
     - The issue is rationing. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:29 PM   #50 
     - As previous commenters have made abundantly clear,  Chorophyll   Jul-21-09 03:50 PM   #127 
     - donor livers are rationed everywhere  mitchtv   Jul-21-09 04:11 PM   #144 
     - Your postings are not as applicable  quakerboy   Jul-21-09 08:51 PM   #195 
     - I think what was rationed in this case (the poster) is intelligence.  bobbolink   Jul-21-09 03:56 PM   #132 
     - The procedure isn't rationed because of cost.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 03:09 PM   #88 
     - Understand but it is rationing nevertheless. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 03:15 PM   #95 
     - All the money in the world will not buy livers that don't exist. n/t  Ms. Toad   Jul-21-09 11:09 PM   #203 
  - This didn't have anything to do with the health care system. It was about a shortage of organs.  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 01:47 PM   #6 
  - See #12. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 01:53 PM   #20 
     - You're confusing two separate issues.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 01:59 PM   #30 
        - LOL "an organ transplant has nothing to do with health care". n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:31 PM   #51 
           - Not what I said, but you're purposefully being obtuse.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 02:48 PM   #63 
              - No, I quoted you precisely. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:50 PM   #68 
                 - No, what I said was that not approving this guy has nothing to do with health care.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 03:06 PM   #84 
                    - The approval process you describe rations health care. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 03:13 PM   #93 
                       - You make no sense at all.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 03:39 PM   #117 
                          - Which words in my statement "Should he be eligible for an immediate transplant under the proposed  jody   Jul-21-09 03:46 PM   #124 
                             - What else would you have implied?  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 03:59 PM   #134 
                                - My question was explicitly simple, "Should he be eligible for an immediate transplant under the  jody   Jul-21-09 04:03 PM   #139 
                                   - No of course not...  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 04:12 PM   #145 
                                   - Understand, "It's about organ availability" but such a policy would be established under our  jody   Jul-21-09 04:18 PM   #148 
                                      - We have those policies now  supernova   Jul-21-09 04:47 PM   #158 
                                      - Did you read my post to which you replied? Your comment makes no sense if you did. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 04:51 PM   #160 
                                      - No, it wouldn't be 'established'; it already exists  muriel_volestrangler   Jul-21-09 05:29 PM   #167 
                                      - Thanks, do you have a source that existing policies will not be changed? n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 05:32 PM   #168 
                                         - The shortage of organs will not change  muriel_volestrangler   Jul-21-09 05:37 PM   #169 
                                         - "free market in organs?" That's unlikely in the US but Saddam Hussein had a thriving business using  jody   Jul-21-09 05:55 PM   #172 
                                         - UNOS is not abolished by any draft health care reform  Ms. Toad   Jul-21-09 11:25 PM   #205 
                                      - You are asking for the money equation to come between the patient and the doctor  Horse with no Name   Jul-21-09 09:34 PM   #200 
                                      - The organ "rationing" policy is completely separate  Ms. Toad   Jul-21-09 11:22 PM   #204 
                                   - Should he be eligible for an immediate transplant under the proposed U.S. Universal Health System?  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 10:03 PM   #202 
  - I dunno - the old US health care system gave Mickey Mantle a new one  tularetom   Jul-21-09 01:48 PM   #7 
  - Mickey Mantle had money & fame on his side.  baldguy   Jul-21-09 01:54 PM   #21 
  - I remember A Current Affair following "Papa" John Philips and catching him boozing it up...  mitchum   Jul-21-09 03:59 PM   #135 
  - The fact that Mickey Mantle needed a liver transplant also spurred people to donate  LisaM   Jul-21-09 02:08 PM   #34 
  - A liver transplant would be pointless if he didn't stop drinking.  baldguy   Jul-21-09 01:48 PM   #9 
  - Why are you confusing the two issues here?  noamnety   Jul-21-09 01:50 PM   #11 
  - See #12. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 01:52 PM   #17 
     - You are completely missing the point.  noamnety   Jul-21-09 02:01 PM   #31 
        - "Universal health care is not going to magically produce more organs to be donated."  redqueen   Jul-21-09 02:17 PM   #42 
        - Rationing because of organ shortage or fund shortage are both rationing., That's precisely why Obama  jody   Jul-21-09 02:37 PM   #54 
           - This is LOGIC 101  noamnety   Jul-21-09 03:06 PM   #82 
           - I believe organ transplants are justified under medicare by comparing the cost of procedures  jody   Jul-21-09 03:10 PM   #89 
           - LOGIC 101: There will still be an organ shortage. (nt)  noamnety   Jul-21-09 03:14 PM   #94 
              - Agree and I agree with Obama there will be a shortage of funds for health care. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 03:16 PM   #96 
                 - Then why don't you post about dollar shortages instead of organ shortages? (nt)  noamnety   Jul-21-09 03:19 PM   #99 
                    - The two are interrelated. If one discusses comparative effectiveness, then decisions to transplant  jody   Jul-21-09 03:30 PM   #110 
                       - Seld delete  LanternWaste   Jul-21-09 06:13 PM   #177 
           - Good luck. n/t  Greyhound   Jul-21-09 04:06 PM   #143 
           - Phew, thank you  chatnoir   Jul-21-09 09:06 PM   #196 
           - Transplant rationing is not about money.  endarkenment   Jul-21-09 03:39 PM   #114 
           - Understand, once a patient is diagnosed with end stage renal disease she/he is covered by medicare.  jody   Jul-21-09 03:43 PM   #121 
              - Oh, so this is personal for you  supernova   Jul-21-09 04:01 PM   #137 
                 - No. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 04:04 PM   #141 
           - Where does what you have quoted even begin to address  Ms. Toad   Jul-21-09 11:30 PM   #206 
  - Active drinkers are refused transplants less formally in the US  Warpy   Jul-21-09 01:51 PM   #13 
  - In the US, people die all the time while waiting for organs  mainer   Jul-21-09 01:51 PM   #14 
  - Why would the guidelines for transplant change?  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 01:51 PM   #15 
  - First. Two different issues. Second...HE wouldn't have gotten one here either.  xultar   Jul-21-09 01:52 PM   #18 
  - Bring on the organ banks! Don't execute criminials, harvest their organs 1st!.......  cdsilv   Jul-21-09 01:55 PM   #24 
     - OK, so where did you pull that shit from? The goddamned twilight zone?  xultar   Jul-21-09 02:27 PM   #45 
  - This is a very sad story...  BlueIdaho   Jul-21-09 01:54 PM   #22 
  - cirrhosis at 22!??  Blue_Tires   Jul-21-09 01:56 PM   #26 
  - No.  ingac70   Jul-21-09 02:02 PM   #32 
  - No. Financing it wasn't the problem.  Deep13   Jul-21-09 02:03 PM   #33 
  - The proposed system has nothing to do with deciding who gets a liver transplant or not.  superduperfarleft   Jul-21-09 02:11 PM   #35 
  - FAIL  redqueen   Jul-21-09 02:13 PM   #37 
  - Not just fail  fujiyama   Jul-21-09 02:16 PM   #40 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 02:37 PM   #55 
     - I share the same concern as Obama, see #54, about the need for comparative effectiveness. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:40 PM   #57 
     - Of what? You've already been pwned. Additionally, I call bullshit.  Maru Kitteh   Jul-21-09 02:46 PM   #61 
        - Are you saying about Obama's position "I call bullshit"? n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 02:48 PM   #65 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 02:52 PM   #71 
              - thanks for the link  Lord Helmet   Jul-21-09 03:37 PM   #113 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 04:17 PM   #147 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 06:15 PM   #178 
     - That could apply to so many DUers.  redqueen   Jul-21-09 02:41 PM   #58 
        - I can't post what I think about Jody per DU rules. n/t  Occulus   Jul-21-09 06:18 PM   #181 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 02:45 PM   #60 
        - Wow didn't know DU had some of those!  fujiyama   Jul-21-09 02:51 PM   #69 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 02:56 PM   #74 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-09 03:24 PM   #104 
  - Should he be eligible for an immediate transplant under proposed U.S. Universal Health Care System?  dysfunctional press   Jul-21-09 02:14 PM   #38 
  - Health care is holistic and the question as you've asked it is a piece-meal,  Greyhound   Jul-21-09 02:15 PM   #39 
  - You do not believe people should have sovereignty over their bodies?  Maru Kitteh   Jul-21-09 02:43 PM   #59 
     - In the future, it might not be an issue  supernova   Jul-21-09 02:49 PM   #67 
     - Another great point. If we can just overcome the "Frankenstein's Monster" mindset  Greyhound   Jul-21-09 03:11 PM   #90 
     - Looky here!  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:17 PM   #97 
        - Way cool! We could see a day with organ banks that preserve your own  Greyhound   Jul-21-09 03:58 PM   #133 
     - A new trachea grown from a woman's own stem cells was transplanted in the UK.  Maru Kitteh   Jul-21-09 04:05 PM   #142 
        - That's what the place at Baptist Medical Center does  supernova   Jul-21-09 04:15 PM   #146 
     - Yes. I would never advocate any type of force, however we can, and I believe should,  Greyhound   Jul-21-09 02:57 PM   #76 
        - I'm very much in favor of "opt out" instead of the "opt in" system we have here.  Maru Kitteh   Jul-21-09 06:06 PM   #174 
  - He would not have been eligible here and he should not be.  Maru Kitteh   Jul-21-09 02:18 PM   #43 
  - This OP is flamebait  endarkenment   Jul-21-09 02:19 PM   #44 
  - How can a BBC article based on fact that deals with rationing health care be flame bait? You may  jody   Jul-21-09 02:28 PM   #47 
     - But that's just the point  supernova   Jul-21-09 02:33 PM   #52 
        - "Ergo, you have to have regulations about who will get" health care as Obama recognized with his  jody   Jul-21-09 02:38 PM   #56 
           - Hey, we already ration care  supernova   Jul-21-09 02:47 PM   #62 
           - I agree with your points but Obama knows that rationing aka comparative effectiveness is necessary,  jody   Jul-21-09 02:53 PM   #72 
              - This is a weakness in the medical industry  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:00 PM   #78 
                 - Agree, I fear that people detached from direct health care will make policy rationing procedures  jody   Jul-21-09 03:04 PM   #81 
                    - That we can agree on  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:08 PM   #87 
                       - I hope Obama's efforts re comparative effectiveness will not be diminished by partisan bickering. nt  jody   Jul-21-09 03:18 PM   #98 
                          - Not from the left they won't  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:20 PM   #100 
           - So what's your opinion  Clouseau2   Jul-21-09 02:56 PM   #75 
              - He's trying to make  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:13 PM   #92 
              - Welcome to DU  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 05:41 PM   #170 
  - He committed suicide.  Ikonoklast   Jul-21-09 02:35 PM   #53 
  - Not exactly.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 02:58 PM   #77 
     - His disease was discovered too late  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:02 PM   #79 
     - Yes, he needed the help back when he was 13 or 16. Very sad. n/t  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 03:45 PM   #122 
        - Sounds like a genetic predisposition  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:52 PM   #129 
     - Then it was too late for him anyway.  Ikonoklast   Jul-21-09 03:04 PM   #80 
        - Sadly yes, I believe so  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:06 PM   #83 
        - I agree.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 03:41 PM   #120 
  - Sounds like the same standard that is applied...  ljm2002   Jul-21-09 02:49 PM   #66 
  - Nah, he just wants to rag on govmint obamacare  supernova   Jul-21-09 02:52 PM   #70 
  - Medically relevant criteria must be used.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 03:07 PM   #86 
  - Understand. What about open-heart surgery for a 90 year old with other complications? I know that's  jody   Jul-21-09 03:21 PM   #102 
     - Often it's the family  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:24 PM   #103 
     - Why don't you look up how organs are rationed NOW in America?  BlooInBloo   Jul-21-09 03:24 PM   #105 
     - I don't know.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 03:36 PM   #112 
        - The OP was about rationing organ transplants and our proposed health care system. That's a subset of  jody   Jul-21-09 03:39 PM   #116 
           - When there are five of something, like livers, transplanting all five is not rationing.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 04:21 PM   #149 
              - On the other hand if ten patients need a liver it's rationing. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 04:24 PM   #150 
                 - No, then it's selecting. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 06:19 PM   #182 
                 - LOL. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 06:21 PM   #184 
                    - One rations something to assure that they don't run out. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-21-09 06:56 PM   #188 
                       - See #187. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 07:02 PM   #190 
                 - Wrongo. You don't seem to understand the concept of rationing and maybe that's the problem.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 06:21 PM   #183 
                    - Most people use rationing to mean the controlled distribution of resources and scarce goods or  jody   Jul-21-09 06:36 PM   #187 
                       - Same difference.  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 06:57 PM   #189 
                          - Obviously they are transplanted to the next person on a list. Supply is limited however and many  jody   Jul-21-09 07:06 PM   #191 
                             - It's not "in like fashion" at all. That's the problem. You can't tell the difference...  Gwendolyn   Jul-21-09 07:13 PM   #192 
                                - Then Obama has a problem because his comparative effectiveness research could consider such policies  jody   Jul-21-09 07:19 PM   #194 
  - Can we go back now  noamnety   Jul-21-09 03:21 PM   #101 
  - LOL, IMO Atty. Gen. Brown took the correct approach that same-sex marriage is an inalienable right  jody   Jul-21-09 03:25 PM   #107 
  - A shame that his refusal to treat the one disease resulted in his death from another (nm)  Book Lover   Jul-21-09 03:25 PM   #106 
  - Alcoholics deserve their fate. nt  masuki bance   Jul-21-09 03:29 PM   #109 
  - Do you also believe that those who engage in risky hobbies deserve their fate? n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 03:34 PM   #111 
  - This is tortured logic.  noamnety   Jul-21-09 03:40 PM   #119 
  - No, they don't  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:40 PM   #118 
  - What if we had a healthcare system that offered treatment options?  rucky   Jul-21-09 03:46 PM   #125 
  - alcoholics have a disease for which there is no effective treatment  pitohui   Jul-21-09 03:54 PM   #130 
  - No they don't deserve it...  LeftishBrit   Jul-21-09 04:27 PM   #152 
  - You won't hear about the no-drinking condition when our news media reports this.  rucky   Jul-21-09 03:45 PM   #123 
  - Remember David Crosby?  supernova   Jul-21-09 03:50 PM   #128 
     - John Philips also took his new liver out for several test drives  mitchum   Jul-21-09 04:02 PM   #138 
        - Oh, yeah that's right!  supernova   Jul-21-09 04:04 PM   #140 
  - It is called triage, and we have this happening here NOW  nadinbrzezinski   Jul-21-09 03:47 PM   #126 
  - " In addition to assessing the patient's physical condition, the team will consider the patient's  WhollyHeretic   Jul-21-09 03:55 PM   #131 
  - OMG, the United States has been infiltrated by commies!  SemiCharmedQuark   Jul-21-09 05:08 PM   #162 
  - He wouldn't have gotten one here in the US, either.  johnaries   Jul-21-09 04:00 PM   #136 
  - I think there are procedures besides organ transplants that are  hedgehog   Jul-21-09 04:26 PM   #151 
  - He wouldn't be eligible under our current medical system, let alone a new one.  berni_mccoy   Jul-21-09 04:29 PM   #153 
  - He'd be eligible, if he were a Saudi Prince, to have as many US body parts as he liked.  slampoet   Jul-21-09 04:32 PM   #154 
  - Apparently 5% of alcoholics quit on their own and 32% are sober one year after rehab. Is the six  jody   Jul-21-09 04:40 PM   #155 
  - In short, yes.  Zynx   Jul-21-09 05:21 PM   #166 
  - No. He chose booze over life. nt  Joey Liberal   Jul-21-09 04:47 PM   #157 
  - I'm sorry, but there are people who haven't destroyed their own bodies who need this.  Zynx   Jul-21-09 04:51 PM   #159 
  - I disagree strongly. Not with the medical decision, but with the grounds you give.  LeftishBrit   Jul-21-09 05:02 PM   #161 
  - I have a question...  DatManFromNawlins   Jul-21-09 05:09 PM   #163 
  - Interesting question. MD's are asking for protection against law suits so would such protection  jody   Jul-21-09 05:15 PM   #164 
     - Please...  xocet   Jul-21-09 06:07 PM   #175 
        - Recite all you want. n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 06:08 PM   #176 
           - Ignore the relevant all you want.  LanternWaste   Jul-21-09 06:18 PM   #180 
              - LOL! n/t  jody   Jul-21-09 06:22 PM   #185 
                 - If it helps you feel better about yourself...  LanternWaste   Jul-21-09 06:28 PM   #186 
  - BBC Misreporting  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 05:20 PM   #165 
  - Thank you for this  supernova   Jul-21-09 05:47 PM   #171 
  - Triage  mrfrapp   Jul-21-09 06:05 PM   #173 
  - My friends mentor can't get a transplant here in the states for more ridiculous reasons.  izzybeans   Jul-21-09 06:18 PM   #179 
  - False  TheBigotBasher   Jul-21-09 07:16 PM   #193 
  - As the husband of a transplant patient...  sendero   Jul-21-09 09:08 PM   #197 
  - He wasn't alcohol free  Horse with no Name   Jul-21-09 09:21 PM   #199 
  - I thought that already did happen here?  varelse   Jul-21-09 09:44 PM   #201 
  - Locking  krispos42   Jul-22-09 03:36 AM   #208 
 

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