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Reply #54: Nonesense, Sir [View All]

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The Magistrate (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jul-17-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. Nonesense, Sir
To call the present financial markets 'the greatest price discovery and wealth creation mechanism ever devised' is a joke in extremely poor taste. What they in fact are is a system of side bets, the sort engaged in by spectators around a craps table on whether or not the shooter will make his point. They produce nothing; they siphon off capital from productive enterprise. The pyramids of speculative wagering erected over the actual production of useful goods and provision of valuable services dwarf the amounts of money involved in real economic activity, and must sooner or later crush real economic activity, destroying enterprises and livelihoods of real use. The only thing this system does efficiently is to concentrate wealth in the hands of sharpsters, and impoverish the people as a whole.

The entire concept of the 'capital gains' tax is rooted in two egregious notions: first, that income from investment should be taxed at a lower rate than income from work, and second, that without such favoritism, people would not try and make more money than they already have. The latter notion is nonesense, as people always want to make more money than they have, and not only will attempt to do it without favoritism, but in thee face of considerable obstacle and risk. The former notion is simply a carrying forward of the notion that those who labor are lesser creatures than those who do not that is at the root of all systems of aristocracy and exploitation.

A tax on the sale of financial instruments, levied as a percentage of purchase price just as a tax on the purchase of goods is, would have several useful benefits. It would certainly enable a reduction in the taxes levied on wages and sale of goods and services falling chiefly on working people. It would make available for social use a portion of the wealth generated by productive enterprise. It would doubtless serve as some break on speculation and the rapid churning of financial instruments which does great harm to the stability of markets, and to the economy and society they serve.

It is a bad, a damnable mistake, to set up the market as supreme, to make it the ruler all serve rather than the servant of the economy and society which supports it. Like fire, markets are good servants but poor masters.
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  How about a national sales tax to pay for health care - tax every thing that is bought or sold ThomWV  Jul-17-09 07:13 PM   #0 
   how about ... "Military Funding" ...!!! we could all retire next week  sam sarrha   Jul-17-09 07:15 PM   #1 
   Or anything ELSE but the most regressive tax known to man or woman nt  D-Lee   Jul-17-09 10:47 PM   #75 
   Oh, definitely  jcarterhero   Jul-18-09 01:23 AM   #100 
   A tax On Sale Of Stocks And Bonds, Sir, Would Be An Excellent And Useful Measure  The Magistrate   Jul-17-09 07:15 PM   #2 
   we already have that.  paulsby   Jul-17-09 07:21 PM   #7 
   Also the greatest responsibility-reducing mechanism ever created  DireStrike   Jul-17-09 08:06 PM   #28 
   what's needed is a transaction fee...  dysfunctional press   Jul-17-09 08:23 PM   #37 
   Capital gains is not a sales tax. It's a tax on income. Sales taxes are taxes on production.  Selatius   Jul-17-09 08:27 PM   #39 
   Nonesense, Sir  The Magistrate   Jul-17-09 09:26 PM   #54 
   I am going to bookmark this response ... this is very well said.  rosesaylavee   Jul-17-09 09:46 PM   #63 
   Precisely. Furthermore ...  TahitiNut   Jul-17-09 10:23 PM   #72 
   tax on trades would improve price discovery. v. "price-making" via manipulation.  Hannah Bell   Jul-17-09 09:50 PM   #65 
   Stocks don't create wealth, productivity does. Stocks only intercept that wealth. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-17-09 11:51 PM   #88 
   We used to have a transaction tax  POAS   Jul-18-09 09:36 PM   #113 
   Yup. That's my favorite proposal whenever sales taxes are discussed.  TahitiNut   Jul-17-09 08:10 PM   #30 
      Quite Likely, My Friend  The Magistrate   Jul-17-09 09:31 PM   #57 
   How would that be enforced and administered?  varelse   Jul-17-09 07:18 PM   #3 
   At least one single payer country works that way.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 07:20 PM   #4 
   I agree.  Andy823   Jul-17-09 07:23 PM   #8 
   Would you PLEASE read up on REGRESSIVE taxes before shooting off your mouth?  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:27 PM   #12 
   Lol, you're funny. And running around from thread to thread attacking people.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 07:36 PM   #18 
      Educate yourself. The way you're talking sounds exactly like RW radio.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:43 PM   #20 
         You might do a little research yourself.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 08:02 PM   #27 
            You don't lecture me on health care, dearie. I've been more involved than you, so cool it.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 08:07 PM   #29 
            I don't need or want anyone to pay for me. I pay for myself and contribute towards  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 08:12 PM   #31 
               Wanting poor people to be taxed more is TAKING CARE OF YOU.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 08:20 PM   #33 
            Neoliberals  ipaint   Jul-17-09 08:30 PM   #40 
            Yes, to some extent that's true.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 08:57 PM   #45 
               I will remind you again.... check your FACTS. Educate yourself before speaking about stuff you  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 09:03 PM   #46 
               Europeans pay a lot in taxes. I have lived in Germany, France and Canada.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 09:22 PM   #52 
               Your memory is going. We were discussing SALES TAX.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 09:47 PM   #64 
                  Fine. If you wish to talk about sales tax in Europe, please look up VAT.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 10:05 PM   #69 
                  Oh good grief. A couple of days ago it was being more educated  Obamanaut   Jul-18-09 07:05 PM   #104 
               I don't know that it's worth arguing with her  noamnety   Jul-17-09 11:43 PM   #85 
                  Thank you for bringing out the obvious! For her, it's more important to "win" and "be right"  bobbolink   Jul-18-09 05:17 PM   #102 
               I haven't been to a state yet that does not have a sales tax  ipaint   Jul-17-09 09:22 PM   #51 
                  The money spent by Americans on healthcare is money thrown into the garbage.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 10:12 PM   #71 
                     And That Is The Point, Ma'am: People Get Something For Their Taxes  The Magistrate   Jul-17-09 11:38 PM   #84 
                        Yes, that's mostly it. Where were you the entire night. You could have said it plainer.  Gwendolyn   Jul-18-09 12:39 AM   #97 
            you are out of line and insulting people.  noamnety   Jul-17-09 11:29 PM   #83 
   the reason a sales tax is regressive is because the poor spend a larger percentage of their income.  dysfunctional press   Jul-17-09 08:25 PM   #38 
   The GST works pretty well here in Canada.  Swede   Jul-17-09 08:46 PM   #43 
   Yes, I know.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 09:27 PM   #55 
   it's a flat tax, there's no sliding scale about it. as percent of income, the rich pay less.  Hannah Bell   Jul-17-09 09:52 PM   #67 
   Let me tell you a story.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-17-09 11:49 PM   #87 
   Show us one with a Gini index of 47.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-17-09 11:59 PM   #91 
   I agree.  Andy823   Jul-17-09 07:20 PM   #5 
   So, you would like for DUers like me to have the little we have TAKEN AWAY FROM US??  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:28 PM   #13 
   It sounds like a hard thing to implement.  Jackpine Radical   Jul-17-09 07:20 PM   #6 
   "Imperceptable" to those of you with comfortable disposable incomes.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:29 PM   #14 
      In general, I really hate regressive taxes, including sales taxes.  Jackpine Radical   Jul-17-09 07:54 PM   #22 
         You still don't get it. It wouldn't be BAD for YOU.  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:58 PM   #26 
         Poverty is a direct result  ipaint   Jul-17-09 11:55 PM   #90 
   wtf  ipaint   Jul-17-09 07:24 PM   #9 
   Oh, but you see.... we DON'T COUNT!  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:31 PM   #16 
   Oh, yes.... that would be soooo brilliant! FUCK THE POOR! REGRESSIVE TAXES FOR ALL!!  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 07:25 PM   #10 
   I would not be in favor of it.  LiberalAndProud   Jul-17-09 07:25 PM   #11 
   How about we stop putting everything on the backs of the poor and working classes?  havocmom   Jul-17-09 07:31 PM   #15 
   Wait till you tell everybody in the country you are going to take a chunk of their income.  Tim01   Jul-17-09 07:35 PM   #17 
   Do you want to price the poor out of buying necessities?  meow2u3   Jul-17-09 07:43 PM   #19 
   VERY well said!  bobbolink   Jul-17-09 08:22 PM   #35 
   Sales tax hurts the poor  frog92969   Jul-17-09 07:45 PM   #21 
   This seems like a plan, a good one. Many years ago, I had a job  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 07:55 PM   #23 
   Really  ipaint   Jul-17-09 08:18 PM   #32 
   Well gee, I guess it's a failing in me that I don't have an all-consuming  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 08:31 PM   #41 
      This is not about hatred of the rich  varelse   Jul-17-09 08:40 PM   #42 
      I have no problem with that  ipaint   Jul-17-09 08:50 PM   #44 
      There is tax on winter coats now, but not on food in Fla. nt  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 10:51 PM   #77 
      In a perfect single payer world...  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 09:13 PM   #49 
      The folks I am concerned about  ipaint   Jul-17-09 09:28 PM   #56 
      I would be happy to pay some additional tax to pay for health care  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 10:56 PM   #79 
      I think you meant to say  lexanman   Jul-17-09 09:18 PM   #50 
         Actually, I said what I meant to say. And the idea of hatred of rich  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 10:31 PM   #74 
            I have yet to see  lexanman   Jul-17-09 10:55 PM   #78 
   Take some time and research the effects the luxury tax had  masuki bance   Jul-17-09 09:38 PM   #61 
      Some years back, in the 50's when I got my first job while in high  Obamanaut   Jul-17-09 10:49 PM   #76 
   Tax the properties of the rich instead.  Cleita   Jul-17-09 07:57 PM   #24 
   What about John and Teresa Kerry, the Kennedys  Thothmes   Jul-18-09 08:11 PM   #108 
      Yes, they are rich aren't they? As Democrats they shouldn't object to the taxes  Cleita   Jul-18-09 09:15 PM   #110 
   It was a bad idea when Libertarians brought it up, it was a bad idea when Republiks proposed it,  Greyhound   Jul-17-09 07:57 PM   #25 
   sales taxes are very regressive...  dysfunctional press   Jul-17-09 08:20 PM   #34 
   DING DING DING  noamnety   Jul-17-09 08:23 PM   #36 
      And who appointed you the DING, DING, DING person?  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 11:08 PM   #80 
         I am a self-appointed DING person, thanks for asking.  noamnety   Jul-17-09 11:19 PM   #82 
            Lol. Good for you... someone in the crowd always has to appoint themselves the genius.  Gwendolyn   Jul-17-09 11:49 PM   #86 
               Why misrepresent facts?  noamnety   Jul-18-09 12:00 AM   #92 
               Waste your time?  Gwendolyn   Jul-18-09 01:02 AM   #98 
                  Don't call me "stupid"  noamnety   Jul-18-09 01:20 AM   #99 
               That's ridiculous  ipaint   Jul-18-09 12:22 AM   #95 
                  Duh. Did anything I said inspire you to think I was on the side...  Gwendolyn   Jul-18-09 12:36 AM   #96 
                     What are you arguing?  ipaint   Jul-18-09 08:00 AM   #101 
   Just collecting "use tax" would do a lot...  gmoney   Jul-17-09 09:04 PM   #47 
   How about  lexanman   Jul-17-09 09:09 PM   #48 
   That is regressive and would be devastating to to those of us who have enough problems making ends  OmmmSweetOmmm   Jul-17-09 09:26 PM   #53 
   Sales taxes disproportionately affect the poor -  Matariki   Jul-17-09 09:31 PM   #58 
   Regressive tax with heavier burden on the lowest income  question everything   Jul-17-09 09:32 PM   #59 
   It will never happen..  The Gunslinger   Jul-17-09 09:38 PM   #60 
   How about not establishing regressive taxation as a normal policy move?  JVS   Jul-17-09 09:42 PM   #62 
   why not tax something more of a luxury? like a 5% tax on all cellphones...  1   Jul-17-09 09:50 PM   #66 
   i have a better idea. how about a 5% increase on the top 5% of the income distribution  Hannah Bell   Jul-17-09 09:57 PM   #68 
   Sales taxes are regressive. Not a good idea.  Laelth   Jul-17-09 10:11 PM   #70 
   i have to agree w bobolink this time, this is a shitty idea  pitohui   Jul-17-09 10:28 PM   #73 
   I hate to say it but this is a bad idea.  Chisox08   Jul-17-09 11:09 PM   #81 
   The Walton family has as much net worth as the bottom 40% (120 million people)  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-17-09 11:54 PM   #89 
   And In That Situation, Sir, Sooner Or Later, Democracy Simply Is Not Possible....  The Magistrate   Jul-18-09 12:11 AM   #94 
   Has anyone thought of just asking them politely?  NoPasaran   Jul-18-09 06:05 PM   #103 
   top tax rates in different countries  ipaint   Jul-18-09 12:08 AM   #93 
   I understand its Regressive - but we could easily rebate the tax to the poor  ThomWV   Jul-18-09 07:31 PM   #105 
   No.  noamnety   Jul-18-09 07:53 PM   #106 
   A LOT easier and more targeted would be to restore the pre-Reagan top marginal tax rates of 70%+  cascadiance   Jul-18-09 09:27 PM   #112 
   May as well just call it a day and implement the "FAIR" TAX!  LAGC   Jul-18-09 08:07 PM   #107 
   How about tax the crap that US companies export  MadMaddie   Jul-18-09 08:16 PM   #109 
   We used to have import taxes so that our home based manufacturing could  Cleita   Jul-18-09 09:19 PM   #111 
   I can't imagine a bigger boost to the  shimmergal   Jul-18-09 09:54 PM   #114 
 

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