The Magistrate
(1000+ posts)
|
Fri Jul-17-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
 |
To call the present financial markets 'the greatest price discovery and wealth creation mechanism ever devised' is a joke in extremely poor taste. What they in fact are is a system of side bets, the sort engaged in by spectators around a craps table on whether or not the shooter will make his point. They produce nothing; they siphon off capital from productive enterprise. The pyramids of speculative wagering erected over the actual production of useful goods and provision of valuable services dwarf the amounts of money involved in real economic activity, and must sooner or later crush real economic activity, destroying enterprises and livelihoods of real use. The only thing this system does efficiently is to concentrate wealth in the hands of sharpsters, and impoverish the people as a whole.
The entire concept of the 'capital gains' tax is rooted in two egregious notions: first, that income from investment should be taxed at a lower rate than income from work, and second, that without such favoritism, people would not try and make more money than they already have. The latter notion is nonesense, as people always want to make more money than they have, and not only will attempt to do it without favoritism, but in thee face of considerable obstacle and risk. The former notion is simply a carrying forward of the notion that those who labor are lesser creatures than those who do not that is at the root of all systems of aristocracy and exploitation.
A tax on the sale of financial instruments, levied as a percentage of purchase price just as a tax on the purchase of goods is, would have several useful benefits. It would certainly enable a reduction in the taxes levied on wages and sale of goods and services falling chiefly on working people. It would make available for social use a portion of the wealth generated by productive enterprise. It would doubtless serve as some break on speculation and the rapid churning of financial instruments which does great harm to the stability of markets, and to the economy and society they serve.
It is a bad, a damnable mistake, to set up the market as supreme, to make it the ruler all serve rather than the servant of the economy and society which supports it. Like fire, markets are good servants but poor masters.
|
How about a national sales tax to pay for health care - tax every thing that is bought or sold |
ThomWV |
Jul-17-09 07:13 PM |
#0 |

how about ... "Military Funding" ...!!! we could all retire next week |
sam sarrha |
Jul-17-09 07:15 PM |
#1 |
 
Or anything ELSE but the most regressive tax known to man or woman nt |
D-Lee |
Jul-17-09 10:47 PM |
#75 |
 
Oh, definitely |
jcarterhero |
Jul-18-09 01:23 AM |
#100 |

A tax On Sale Of Stocks And Bonds, Sir, Would Be An Excellent And Useful Measure |
The Magistrate |
Jul-17-09 07:15 PM |
#2 |
 
we already have that. |
paulsby |
Jul-17-09 07:21 PM |
#7 |
  
Also the greatest responsibility-reducing mechanism ever created |
DireStrike |
Jul-17-09 08:06 PM |
#28 |
  
what's needed is a transaction fee... |
dysfunctional press |
Jul-17-09 08:23 PM |
#37 |
  
Capital gains is not a sales tax. It's a tax on income. Sales taxes are taxes on production. |
Selatius |
Jul-17-09 08:27 PM |
#39 |
  
Nonesense, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Jul-17-09 09:26 PM |
#54 |
   
I am going to bookmark this response ... this is very well said. |
rosesaylavee |
Jul-17-09 09:46 PM |
#63 |
   
Precisely. Furthermore ... |
TahitiNut |
Jul-17-09 10:23 PM |
#72 |
  
tax on trades would improve price discovery. v. "price-making" via manipulation. |
Hannah Bell |
Jul-17-09 09:50 PM |
#65 |
  
Stocks don't create wealth, productivity does. Stocks only intercept that wealth. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jul-17-09 11:51 PM |
#88 |
  
We used to have a transaction tax |
POAS |
Jul-18-09 09:36 PM |
#113 |
 
Yup. That's my favorite proposal whenever sales taxes are discussed. |
TahitiNut |
Jul-17-09 08:10 PM |
#30 |

Quite Likely, My Friend |
The Magistrate |
Jul-17-09 09:31 PM |
#57 |

How would that be enforced and administered? |
varelse |
Jul-17-09 07:18 PM |
#3 |

At least one single payer country works that way. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 07:20 PM |
#4 |
 
I agree. |
Andy823 |
Jul-17-09 07:23 PM |
#8 |
 
Would you PLEASE read up on REGRESSIVE taxes before shooting off your mouth? |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:27 PM |
#12 |
  
Lol, you're funny. And running around from thread to thread attacking people. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 07:36 PM |
#18 |
 
Educate yourself. The way you're talking sounds exactly like RW radio. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:43 PM |
#20 |
 
You might do a little research yourself. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 08:02 PM |
#27 |
 
You don't lecture me on health care, dearie. I've been more involved than you, so cool it. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 08:07 PM |
#29 |
  
I don't need or want anyone to pay for me. I pay for myself and contribute towards |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 08:12 PM |
#31 |
 
Wanting poor people to be taxed more is TAKING CARE OF YOU. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 08:20 PM |
#33 |
 
Neoliberals |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 08:30 PM |
#40 |
  
Yes, to some extent that's true. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 08:57 PM |
#45 |
 
I will remind you again.... check your FACTS. Educate yourself before speaking about stuff you |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 09:03 PM |
#46 |
  
Europeans pay a lot in taxes. I have lived in Germany, France and Canada. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 09:22 PM |
#52 |
   
Your memory is going. We were discussing SALES TAX. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 09:47 PM |
#64 |
  
Fine. If you wish to talk about sales tax in Europe, please look up VAT. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 10:05 PM |
#69 |
  
Oh good grief. A couple of days ago it was being more educated |
Obamanaut |
Jul-18-09 07:05 PM |
#104 |
  
I don't know that it's worth arguing with her |
noamnety |
Jul-17-09 11:43 PM |
#85 |
 
Thank you for bringing out the obvious! For her, it's more important to "win" and "be right" |
bobbolink |
Jul-18-09 05:17 PM |
#102 |
 
I haven't been to a state yet that does not have a sales tax |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 09:22 PM |
#51 |
 
The money spent by Americans on healthcare is money thrown into the garbage. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 10:12 PM |
#71 |
 
And That Is The Point, Ma'am: People Get Something For Their Taxes |
The Magistrate |
Jul-17-09 11:38 PM |
#84 |
 
Yes, that's mostly it. Where were you the entire night. You could have said it plainer. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-18-09 12:39 AM |
#97 |
 
you are out of line and insulting people. |
noamnety |
Jul-17-09 11:29 PM |
#83 |
 
the reason a sales tax is regressive is because the poor spend a larger percentage of their income. |
dysfunctional press |
Jul-17-09 08:25 PM |
#38 |
 
The GST works pretty well here in Canada. |
Swede |
Jul-17-09 08:46 PM |
#43 |
  
Yes, I know. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 09:27 PM |
#55 |
 
it's a flat tax, there's no sliding scale about it. as percent of income, the rich pay less. |
Hannah Bell |
Jul-17-09 09:52 PM |
#67 |
 
Let me tell you a story. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jul-17-09 11:49 PM |
#87 |
 
Show us one with a Gini index of 47. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jul-17-09 11:59 PM |
#91 |

I agree. |
Andy823 |
Jul-17-09 07:20 PM |
#5 |
 
So, you would like for DUers like me to have the little we have TAKEN AWAY FROM US?? |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:28 PM |
#13 |

It sounds like a hard thing to implement. |
Jackpine Radical |
Jul-17-09 07:20 PM |
#6 |
 
"Imperceptable" to those of you with comfortable disposable incomes. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:29 PM |
#14 |

In general, I really hate regressive taxes, including sales taxes. |
Jackpine Radical |
Jul-17-09 07:54 PM |
#22 |

You still don't get it. It wouldn't be BAD for YOU. |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:58 PM |
#26 |

Poverty is a direct result |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 11:55 PM |
#90 |

wtf |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 07:24 PM |
#9 |
 
Oh, but you see.... we DON'T COUNT! |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:31 PM |
#16 |

Oh, yes.... that would be soooo brilliant! FUCK THE POOR! REGRESSIVE TAXES FOR ALL!! |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 07:25 PM |
#10 |

I would not be in favor of it. |
LiberalAndProud |
Jul-17-09 07:25 PM |
#11 |

How about we stop putting everything on the backs of the poor and working classes? |
havocmom |
Jul-17-09 07:31 PM |
#15 |

Wait till you tell everybody in the country you are going to take a chunk of their income. |
Tim01 |
Jul-17-09 07:35 PM |
#17 |

Do you want to price the poor out of buying necessities? |
meow2u3 |
Jul-17-09 07:43 PM |
#19 |
 
VERY well said! |
bobbolink |
Jul-17-09 08:22 PM |
#35 |

Sales tax hurts the poor |
frog92969 |
Jul-17-09 07:45 PM |
#21 |

This seems like a plan, a good one. Many years ago, I had a job |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 07:55 PM |
#23 |
 
Really |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 08:18 PM |
#32 |
  
Well gee, I guess it's a failing in me that I don't have an all-consuming |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 08:31 PM |
#41 |
 
This is not about hatred of the rich |
varelse |
Jul-17-09 08:40 PM |
#42 |
 
I have no problem with that |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 08:50 PM |
#44 |
  
There is tax on winter coats now, but not on food in Fla. nt |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 10:51 PM |
#77 |
 
In a perfect single payer world... |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 09:13 PM |
#49 |
  
The folks I am concerned about |
ipaint |
Jul-17-09 09:28 PM |
#56 |
  
I would be happy to pay some additional tax to pay for health care |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 10:56 PM |
#79 |
 
I think you meant to say |
lexanman |
Jul-17-09 09:18 PM |
#50 |
 
Actually, I said what I meant to say. And the idea of hatred of rich |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 10:31 PM |
#74 |
 
I have yet to see |
lexanman |
Jul-17-09 10:55 PM |
#78 |
 
Take some time and research the effects the luxury tax had |
masuki bance |
Jul-17-09 09:38 PM |
#61 |

Some years back, in the 50's when I got my first job while in high |
Obamanaut |
Jul-17-09 10:49 PM |
#76 |

Tax the properties of the rich instead. |
Cleita |
Jul-17-09 07:57 PM |
#24 |
 
What about John and Teresa Kerry, the Kennedys |
Thothmes |
Jul-18-09 08:11 PM |
#108 |

Yes, they are rich aren't they? As Democrats they shouldn't object to the taxes |
Cleita |
Jul-18-09 09:15 PM |
#110 |

It was a bad idea when Libertarians brought it up, it was a bad idea when Republiks proposed it, |
Greyhound |
Jul-17-09 07:57 PM |
#25 |

sales taxes are very regressive... |
dysfunctional press |
Jul-17-09 08:20 PM |
#34 |
 
DING DING DING |
noamnety |
Jul-17-09 08:23 PM |
#36 |

And who appointed you the DING, DING, DING person? |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 11:08 PM |
#80 |

I am a self-appointed DING person, thanks for asking. |
noamnety |
Jul-17-09 11:19 PM |
#82 |

Lol. Good for you... someone in the crowd always has to appoint themselves the genius. |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-17-09 11:49 PM |
#86 |

Why misrepresent facts? |
noamnety |
Jul-18-09 12:00 AM |
#92 |
 
Waste your time? |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-18-09 01:02 AM |
#98 |

Don't call me "stupid" |
noamnety |
Jul-18-09 01:20 AM |
#99 |

That's ridiculous |
ipaint |
Jul-18-09 12:22 AM |
#95 |

Duh. Did anything I said inspire you to think I was on the side... |
Gwendolyn |
Jul-18-09 12:36 AM |
#96 |

What are you arguing? |
ipaint |
Jul-18-09 08:00 AM |
#101 |

Just collecting "use tax" would do a lot... |
gmoney |
Jul-17-09 09:04 PM |
#47 |

How about |
lexanman |
Jul-17-09 09:09 PM |
#48 |

That is regressive and would be devastating to to those of us who have enough problems making ends |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jul-17-09 09:26 PM |
#53 |

Sales taxes disproportionately affect the poor - |
Matariki |
Jul-17-09 09:31 PM |
#58 |

Regressive tax with heavier burden on the lowest income |
question everything |
Jul-17-09 09:32 PM |
#59 |

It will never happen.. |
The Gunslinger |
Jul-17-09 09:38 PM |
#60 |

How about not establishing regressive taxation as a normal policy move? |
JVS |
Jul-17-09 09:42 PM |
#62 |

why not tax something more of a luxury? like a 5% tax on all cellphones... |
1 |
Jul-17-09 09:50 PM |
#66 |

i have a better idea. how about a 5% increase on the top 5% of the income distribution |
Hannah Bell |
Jul-17-09 09:57 PM |
#68 |

Sales taxes are regressive. Not a good idea. |
Laelth |
Jul-17-09 10:11 PM |
#70 |

i have to agree w bobolink this time, this is a shitty idea |
pitohui |
Jul-17-09 10:28 PM |
#73 |

I hate to say it but this is a bad idea. |
Chisox08 |
Jul-17-09 11:09 PM |
#81 |

The Walton family has as much net worth as the bottom 40% (120 million people) |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jul-17-09 11:54 PM |
#89 |
 
And In That Situation, Sir, Sooner Or Later, Democracy Simply Is Not Possible.... |
The Magistrate |
Jul-18-09 12:11 AM |
#94 |
 
Has anyone thought of just asking them politely? |
NoPasaran |
Jul-18-09 06:05 PM |
#103 |

top tax rates in different countries |
ipaint |
Jul-18-09 12:08 AM |
#93 |

I understand its Regressive - but we could easily rebate the tax to the poor |
ThomWV |
Jul-18-09 07:31 PM |
#105 |
 
No. |
noamnety |
Jul-18-09 07:53 PM |
#106 |
 
A LOT easier and more targeted would be to restore the pre-Reagan top marginal tax rates of 70%+ |
cascadiance |
Jul-18-09 09:27 PM |
#112 |

May as well just call it a day and implement the "FAIR" TAX! |
LAGC |
Jul-18-09 08:07 PM |
#107 |

How about tax the crap that US companies export |
MadMaddie |
Jul-18-09 08:16 PM |
#109 |
 
We used to have import taxes so that our home based manufacturing could |
Cleita |
Jul-18-09 09:19 PM |
#111 |

I can't imagine a bigger boost to the |
shimmergal |
Jul-18-09 09:54 PM |
#114 |