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Reply #100: Not relevant, but can you substantiate that? [View All]

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-07-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
100. Not relevant, but can you substantiate that?
Edited on Sat Apr-07-07 12:54 PM by slackmaster
I was under the impression that vaccination, HIV testing, and background checks were required for all people seeking permanent residency.

My point is that someone jumping the border fence does not get checked, and could pose a risk to public health especially if he or she gets a job that involves handling food.
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  -the difference between illegal and legal immigration: there is none aein  Apr-07-07 03:30 AM   #0 
  - Of course they're human.  BlueStateModerate   Apr-07-07 03:33 AM   #1 
  - they aren't criminals, if we stop calling them criminals, did you read the post?  aein   Apr-07-07 03:36 AM   #3 
  - They aren't paying taxes, which means they are, by definition, criminals.  merwin   Apr-07-07 04:06 AM   #20 
  - Which taxes are they not paying?  DIKB   Apr-07-07 05:50 AM   #36 
  - ah, but then they have broken the law again by obtaining  Maine-ah   Apr-07-07 06:37 AM   #39 
  - Where does the real guilt lie?  DIKB   Apr-07-07 07:20 AM   #42 
     - The way I see it, they are both guilty and deserve to be punished.  merwin   Apr-07-07 05:49 PM   #156 
  - Please list Jeffy's exact physical address and amount earned last calendar year  Toots   Apr-07-07 09:25 AM   #51 
  - unless he earned more than $5,000 (the standard deduction)  hfojvt   Apr-07-07 12:07 PM   #89 
  - So, because legal citizens also break the law, that means it's ok for  merwin   Apr-07-07 05:47 PM   #154 
     - There is nuance.  DIKB   Apr-08-07 04:18 AM   #177 
        - I'm not saying i don't agree with you. If i was in that position, I would do it.  merwin   Apr-08-07 06:30 AM   #179 
  - I know republicans that do everything within their power not to pay  Lost-in-FL   Apr-07-07 09:18 AM   #49 
  - I don't recall saying that they were the only ones who did it.  merwin   Apr-07-07 05:50 PM   #157 
     - No you did not say that...  Lost-in-FL   Apr-07-07 08:17 PM   #167 
        - I'd join you on that wager- .....eom  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 08:23 PM   #168 
  - By your definition  loyalsister   Apr-07-07 12:33 PM   #99 
  - By Definition,  Possumpoint   Apr-07-07 06:24 AM   #37 
     - but if we gave them our permission, post-hoc, ergo, they are not illegal  aein   Apr-07-07 03:40 PM   #116 
        - But that is not the way our system works currently, so they are illegal.  merwin   Apr-07-07 05:51 PM   #158 
           - I can if I get busted, and then been pardoned or given amnesty  aein   Apr-08-07 01:05 PM   #180 
  - Criminals?  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 04:13 AM   #22 
  - Ain't that the truth...  lefador   Apr-07-07 04:29 AM   #23 
  - Here, here..  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 04:33 AM   #25 
  - Amen to that. "Give me your tired, your poor...." I can't turn my back on the huddled masses.  tblue   Apr-07-07 04:37 AM   #26 
  - Welcome to DU lefador, nicely said. I grew up in New Mexico and find all this  BleedingHeartPatriot   Apr-07-07 07:32 AM   #43 
  - Where did the Mexicans get their land?  Lasher   Apr-07-07 08:37 AM   #46 
  - Substitute Irish for Mexican and you've described my family. Amazing to see DUers  blondeatlast   Apr-07-07 12:04 PM   #86 
  - I'll Fight You!  Possumpoint   Apr-07-07 06:53 AM   #40 
  - They have come to re-extend the borders of Mexico? Is this some kind of  BleedingHeartPatriot   Apr-07-07 07:35 AM   #44 
  - Well, life just got easier.  The Backlash Cometh   Apr-07-07 10:21 AM   #59 
  - We're a nation of criminals.  personman   Apr-07-07 10:29 AM   #64 
  - Hello... Do you know what "tautological" means?  StefanX   Apr-07-07 08:55 PM   #169 
  - They aren't criminals. Criminals hurt and kill people. They lie and cheat.  Cleita   Apr-08-07 12:16 AM   #176 
     - They cheat, eh?  BlueStateModerate   Apr-08-07 04:34 PM   #185 
        - How are the immigrants cheating? I have never been cheated on  Cleita   Apr-08-07 06:50 PM   #194 
  - Maybe, perhaps, the problem is with Mexico and other such countries?  quantessd   Apr-07-07 03:34 AM   #2 
  - why are they not "our people" too?  aein   Apr-07-07 03:37 AM   #4 
  - Wouldn't that be nice.  quantessd   Apr-07-07 03:40 AM   #5 
  - why not? am I not i suggesting a political question and a political solution?  aein   Apr-07-07 03:42 AM   #6 
  - I agree with you, but I think it's unrealistic.  quantessd   Apr-07-07 04:03 AM   #18 
  - "They do it too" ranks up there with "God says so"  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 04:00 AM   #16 
     - Yes, I agree!  quantessd   Apr-07-07 04:11 AM   #21 
        - I meant "action" broadly.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 04:45 AM   #27 
  - Be realistic  BlueStateModerate   Apr-07-07 03:44 AM   #7 
     - Of course, the proposition in the abstract is very idealistic. But there is a middleground between t  aein   Apr-07-07 03:45 AM   #8 
     - "Racial Equality is a very unrealistic ideal:  Karenina   Apr-07-07 05:46 PM   #153 
        - This is a touchy point...I'll tread carefully  aein   Apr-08-07 02:39 PM   #183 
           - I'm not gonna touch your response  Karenina   Apr-08-07 07:05 PM   #197 
     - Maybe because its the U.S. trade  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 03:58 AM   #15 
        - You want justice, work for peace. You want nothing but 'legal' immigration, work for justice.  tblue   Apr-07-07 04:49 AM   #28 
           - Some of us are more informed than others  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 04:56 AM   #29 
              - I'll check those out. Thanks. It's almost like I don't wanna o know what the US has done.  tblue   Apr-07-07 05:00 AM   #30 
                 - There are better  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 05:20 AM   #33 
  - If we stopped subverting their elections, then maybe you  sfexpat2000   Apr-07-07 12:11 PM   #91 
     - the Mexican government is blameless?  NormanYorkstein   Apr-08-07 07:35 PM   #204 
  - Sneak  Big Pappa   Apr-07-07 03:48 AM   #9 
  - yeah, lets try to do that  aein   Apr-07-07 03:52 AM   #10 
  - Well help me out then  Big Pappa   Apr-07-07 03:53 AM   #11 
     - Well for starters  SoCalifer   Apr-07-07 04:30 AM   #24 
     - Generally speaking, stop implementing a global economic system  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:15 AM   #32 
        - Best.Post. In. The. Thead.  Morgana LaFey   Apr-07-07 02:29 PM   #106 
        - Excellent post. Thank you for a moment of sanity.  blondeatlast   Apr-07-07 04:28 PM   #120 
     - The border is open  Jcrowley   Apr-07-07 08:52 AM   #48 
  - Yes. If we get rid of the other restrictions that currently exist.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 03:56 AM   #13 
  - I can see how  Big Pappa   Apr-07-07 04:01 AM   #17 
     - And whose fault is that?  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 04:03 AM   #19 
  - Or sneak into Canada and see what happens. Why are other Countries allowed their immigration laws  Blue State Native   Apr-08-07 06:48 PM   #193 
  - Well said.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 03:54 AM   #12 
  - In other words, Iran had no right to hold UK sailors as captives. e.o.m.  Boojatta   Apr-07-07 12:20 PM   #95 
  - "Solidarity with ALL immigrant workers!"?  NormanYorkstein   Apr-09-07 01:09 AM   #206 
  - the transportation of Labor across the world and societies  IChing   Apr-07-07 03:57 AM   #14 
  - Think of them as economic refugees. They live under an economically oppressive  tblue   Apr-07-07 05:11 AM   #31 
  - That's how I think of them--and the US subverted Mexico's free elections last year.  blondeatlast   Apr-07-07 04:31 PM   #121 
  - If I was a young person that could make 9 or 10 times what I was making  B Calm   Apr-07-07 05:29 AM   #34 
  - Right and the Mexican Government would deport you for being there illegally. As would any other  Blue State Native   Apr-08-07 07:05 PM   #198 
  - I refuse to believe that  DIKB   Apr-07-07 05:38 AM   #35 
  - Well said  YankeyMCC   Apr-07-07 06:36 AM   #38 
  - The thing that really gets me is the hypocrisy.....you know,  cboy4   Apr-07-07 07:03 AM   #41 
  - Industrial-strength DLC, cheap labor hogwash!  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 08:09 AM   #45 
  - If the immigrant workers didn't compete with workers in the US  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 01:28 PM   #103 
     - They still want to destroy one of the few remaining bastions of relatively high wages.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 03:21 PM   #111 
        - Then let's get rid of them.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 03:23 PM   #112 
           - Dupe - self-delete.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 05:04 PM   # 
           - If they're here illegally, let's send them back as well.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 05:04 PM   #130 
              - Why?  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:18 PM   #138 
                 - Good luck with that.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 05:20 PM   #141 
                    - Hmm, somehow I doubt that the millions of illegal immigrants here  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:24 PM   #145 
                       - Actually we need a crackdown on employers.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 05:35 PM   #149 
                          - Won't happen either.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:38 PM   #150 
                             - That HAS to change. And not just on illegal immigration.  Jim Sagle   Apr-07-07 09:42 PM   #171 
                                - Now there we agree! n/t  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 11:06 PM   #175 
  - This is a very authoritarian country  Jcrowley   Apr-07-07 08:42 AM   #47 
  - What a heartbreaking image. Damn. nt  blondeatlast   Apr-07-07 04:32 PM   #122 
  - Freedom of movement is a human right.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Apr-07-07 09:23 AM   #50 
  - Suppose a homeless person migrates into your back yard  pscot   Apr-07-07 10:31 AM   #65 
     - I'll deal that when it happens.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Apr-07-07 10:38 AM   #68 
        - They've been known to set up housekeeping in the woods around here  pscot   Apr-07-07 10:42 AM   #70 
           - Every being is our own.  roody   Apr-07-07 10:05 PM   #173 
  - Yes there is a difference  Lost-in-FL   Apr-07-07 09:57 AM   #52 
  - I guess your problem is that you disagree with the law--of this country, and every other country  kenny blankenship   Apr-07-07 10:01 AM   #53 
  - And with the rule of law generally, it would seem. Oh well....n/t  Dutch   Apr-07-07 10:17 AM   #57 
  - And every other country...  bling bling   Apr-07-07 10:22 AM   #61 
  - I respect the laws, I want them to be changed.  aein   Apr-07-07 12:06 PM   #87 
  - We are members of humanity and citizens of the world before we are American  LeviathanCrumbling   Apr-07-07 10:01 AM   #54 
  - Humanity is currrently 7 Billion strong and rising  pscot   Apr-07-07 10:28 AM   #63 
     - Are you feeling cramped?  LeviathanCrumbling   Apr-07-07 10:58 AM   #71 
        - I am feeling cramped.  pscot   Apr-07-07 11:19 AM   #73 
           - I think that is the duh part, the problem isn't immigration  LeviathanCrumbling   Apr-07-07 01:39 PM   #104 
              - This country would be near zero population growth  pscot   Apr-07-07 04:36 PM   #123 
  - A country can only assimilate so many people at one time.  Odin2005   Apr-07-07 10:11 AM   #55 
  - what's wrong with that?  aein   Apr-07-07 12:07 PM   #88 
     - Because it weakens the coheasion of the nation-state, thus letting the corporatists run things.  Odin2005   Apr-07-07 12:15 PM   #94 
     - An assay from another forum I post at.  Odin2005   Apr-07-07 12:55 PM   #101 
        - Interesting. Care to share with us what forum it is? -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Apr-07-07 03:39 PM   #115 
           - Here's the forum:  Odin2005   Apr-08-07 05:28 PM   #186 
  - Unfortunately, we don't have room for everyone who wants to come  Nikia   Apr-07-07 10:16 AM   #56 
  - Open borders is a huge mistake.  The Backlash Cometh   Apr-07-07 10:19 AM   #58 
  - while I believe in human rights, the people that enter  bbgrunt   Apr-07-07 10:22 AM   #60 
  - sigh....  Fountain79   Apr-07-07 10:28 AM   #62 
  - I support your position  aein   Apr-07-07 12:12 PM   #93 
  - Well, laws would seem to define a difference. You are being disingenuous in seeking  WinkyDink   Apr-07-07 10:31 AM   #66 
  - Because it's an argument for being tolerant of intolerance. nt  personman   Apr-08-07 04:23 AM   #178 
  - You're right. There is none because  Skidmore   Apr-07-07 10:34 AM   #67 
  - translation: concept of sovereign nation-state is obsolete  kineneb   Apr-07-07 10:40 AM   #69 
  - The people who complain about "illegals" are those who feel they're being slighted by them.  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 11:06 AM   #72 
  - Utter Hogwash  pscot   Apr-07-07 11:21 AM   #74 
  - Oh? Care to explain your rude dismissal, or would you just like to be an ass? - n/t  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 11:23 AM   #75 
     - heh...like I just said...that'll touch a nerve.  Forkboy   Apr-07-07 11:44 AM   #79 
     - You called it, your point.  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 11:52 AM   #80 
     - What touches a nerve  pscot   Apr-07-07 05:20 PM   #142 
        - Utter Hogwash - n/t  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 05:24 PM   #144 
           - Oh Golly, that was clever  pscot   Apr-07-07 09:47 PM   #172 
              - Sucks to be dismissed out of hand, doesn't it?  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 10:08 PM   #174 
  - That'll touch a nerve  Forkboy   Apr-07-07 11:43 AM   #78 
  - Incorrect. I, for one, simply believe a nation is obliged to manage its resources.  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 05:14 PM   #134 
     - I didn't realize you were complaining about the "illegal problem."  porphyrian   Apr-07-07 05:19 PM   #140 
  - Illegal immigrants bypass processes that protect public health and safety  slackmaster   Apr-07-07 11:30 AM   #76 
  - so do wealthy, influential LEGAL immigrants-  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 12:02 PM   #84 
     - Not relevant, but can you substantiate that?  slackmaster   Apr-07-07 12:53 PM   #100 
        - no, not the way I should  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 05:27 PM   #147 
  - What gets me is the hypocrisy. My husband's great-grandfather  Coventina   Apr-07-07 11:35 AM   #77 
  - And according to the Native Americans that lived here before current ones,  slackmaster   Apr-07-07 11:54 AM   #81 
  - I agree with you mostly, but a few differences  ComerPerro   Apr-07-07 11:56 AM   #82 
  - we're all criminals if you want to come right down to it- how  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 11:57 AM   #83 
  - I think your position is insulting to every immigrant who waited their turn, played by the rules,  aikoaiko   Apr-07-07 12:03 PM   #85 
  - I'm one of those legal immigrants, I'm not insulted by my own argument  aein   Apr-07-07 12:10 PM   #90 
  - You're not exactly being honest. you didn't wait you're turn -- you just tagged along.  aikoaiko   Apr-07-07 12:24 PM   #96 
  - Your argument is that of a five year old  omega minimo   Apr-07-07 06:27 PM   #161 
     - Was that suppose to be satire?  aein   Apr-08-07 01:12 PM   #182 
        - It's an illustration of how simplistic and immature your argument is  omega minimo   Apr-08-07 02:47 PM   #184 
           - Do you have any other criticism other than the fact that it "sounded" immature...like facts or...  aein   Apr-08-07 05:52 PM   #188 
              - The onus is on you to make your case, if you have "like facts" or logic, not just emotional  omega minimo   Apr-08-07 06:19 PM   #192 
                 - maybe you didn't understand the gist of my argument  aein   Apr-08-07 06:55 PM   #195 
  - The fact that some people have endured needless hardship  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 01:24 PM   #102 
     - I guess this where I disagree with you, control over borders is a worthy pursuit.  aikoaiko   Apr-07-07 01:55 PM   #105 
        - Borders are just lines on a map.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 02:52 PM   #108 
           - what right to live and work where one pleases are you talking about  aikoaiko   Apr-07-07 03:16 PM   #109 
              - But you do have the right to live here.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 03:18 PM   #110 
                 - I can see from your question that you don't recognize the right of sovereign nations to have  aikoaiko   Apr-07-07 03:29 PM   #113 
                    - Indeed I do not.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 03:31 PM   #114 
                       - Funny thing about moral law - it varies from person to person.  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 04:59 PM   #128 
                          - A difference of opinion does not imply a difference in truth.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:07 PM   #132 
                             - Spoken like those who justify assassinating abortion providers.  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 05:08 PM   #133 
                                - Indeed, they say the same about the need for laws to be morally justified.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:17 PM   #136 
                                   - Breathing and sleeping are not choices, but principles are.  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 05:18 PM   #139 
                                      - Hmm, principles.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:26 PM   #146 
  - Was the European Conquest of the Americas illegal?  genie_weenie   Apr-07-07 12:11 PM   #92 
  - not entirely true- while  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 12:33 PM   #98 
  - Stop illegals from getting any benefits from the govt while citizens can't, and I'll agree with you.  AZBlue   Apr-07-07 12:26 PM   #97 
  - and which ones are those?  Morgana LaFey   Apr-07-07 02:31 PM   #107 
     - Which "ones" are you referring to?  AZBlue   Apr-07-07 07:37 PM   #165 
        - I'm asking you what BENEFITS  Morgana LaFey   Apr-08-07 06:14 PM   #191 
  - Everyone's for sale  Jcrowley   Apr-07-07 03:41 PM   #117 
  - Disagree. Every nation has the right, and responsibility, to manage its resources.  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 04:17 PM   #118 
  - Sure.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 04:19 PM   #119 
     - It does not have the right to privilege some citizens over others, generally. But it does  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 04:50 PM   #124 
        - Why? n/t  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 04:51 PM   #125 
           - Because that is part of how a nation manages its resources, and for the same reason  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 04:57 PM   #127 
              - "Managing" is different from "privileging."  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:01 PM   #129 
                 - Access is a resource. A nation has the right, and resonsibility, to manage its resources  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 05:05 PM   #131 
                    - Human beings are human beings.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:14 PM   #135 
                       - I shouldn't expect someone with an anarchy avatar to have any regard for  mondo joe   Apr-07-07 05:17 PM   #137 
                          - Indeed, you are correct that we anarchists generally wonder why  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:22 PM   #143 
  - Texan Here  Madspirit   Apr-07-07 04:56 PM   #126 
  - I see lots of emotional ideology...  Nabeshin   Apr-07-07 05:31 PM   #148 
  - At some point we would expect that it would no longer be profitable to come.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:39 PM   #151 
  - The point when it's no longer profitable to come...  Nabeshin   Apr-07-07 05:43 PM   #152 
     - Unlikely.  Unvanguard   Apr-07-07 05:47 PM   #155 
        - The conditions for Third World immigrants in the US...  Nabeshin   Apr-07-07 06:07 PM   #160 
           - I believe you are angry at the wrong group- Also, you are off with  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 06:28 PM   #162 
              - Plenty of white-collar immigrants...  Nabeshin   Apr-07-07 07:36 PM   #164 
  - the gluttony of this country-  Bluerthanblue   Apr-07-07 06:00 PM   #159 
  - I'm also disgusted...  Nabeshin   Apr-07-07 08:03 PM   #166 
  - Strange, I thought I made a very logical argument...  aein   Apr-08-07 01:11 PM   #181 
  - In my opinion the real criminals are their employers  alarimer   Apr-07-07 07:34 PM   #163 
  - I agree with you one hundred percent, but I can tell you on  Cleita   Apr-07-07 09:06 PM   #170 
  - nationalism may suck  NormanYorkstein   Apr-08-07 05:50 PM   #187 
  - Gladly, if they pay me rent. Or Build my highways, or cook my food. Or mow my lawn for $2  aein   Apr-08-07 05:54 PM   #189 
     - really? you have a cook and gardener?  NormanYorkstein   Apr-08-07 06:04 PM   #190 
        - I thought we were talking in metaphors. Unless you really have do have an illegal immigrant living..  aein   Apr-08-07 07:09 PM   #201 
  - aein, what do you do for a living?  B Calm   Apr-08-07 07:01 PM   #196 
  - but they will mow your lawn for two dollars!  NormanYorkstein   Apr-08-07 07:06 PM   #199 
  - I'm a graduate student.  aein   Apr-08-07 07:08 PM   #200 
     - graduate student huh? So you don't compete with illegal immigrants  NormanYorkstein   Apr-08-07 07:31 PM   #203 
  - I see I won't win this by argument. I rather not win it by exhaustion either...  aein   Apr-08-07 07:11 PM   #202 
  - Sorry, WRONG. As a LEGAL immigrant nothing pisses me off more than illegal immigrants...  truebrit71   Apr-08-07 07:44 PM   #205 
 

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