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Reply #168: Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT [View All]

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT
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  -Depression: better now or back in the 1930s? Which would have the higher survival rate? Lerkfish  Jun-13-09 09:57 AM   #0 
  - There are a lot of myths about the Great Depression, and stuff left out.  imdjh   Jun-13-09 10:14 AM   #1 
  - Worse today...for sure...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 10:15 AM   #2 
  - I think it will be a disaster  Mojorabbit   Jun-13-09 10:15 AM   #3 
  - There is no comparing then to now. People killed themselves in droves.  MADem   Jun-13-09 10:17 AM   #4 
  - The point of the OP though is that if it comes to the same point again..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 10:30 AM   #6 
  - No, we won't, because we won't abandon entitlement programs.  MADem   Jun-13-09 10:55 AM   #8 
  - California is already talking about ending entitlements..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 11:17 AM   #11 
  - Your perfect won't be the enemy of the good. "Less serious" gardeners,  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:49 AM   #19 
     - But will they figure it out before they starve?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:10 PM   #22 
     - Of course they will. Jesus, people who couldn't read and write manage to figure this stuff out.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:21 PM   #55 
        - Crop failures happen..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:39 PM   #65 
           - They're not the NORM, though. You're trying to make the unlikely likely.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:52 PM   #72 
              - In a survival situation..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:01 PM   #78 
                 - yup, and only more so with high specialization.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:03 PM   #80 
                 - Unless you move to Africa, you're not going to find yourself in that sort of situation.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:16 PM   #85 
     - In a garbage can???  Jack Sprat   Jun-13-09 10:03 PM   #169 
        - No, you need dirt. Really, though--it's easy. Takes up no space, too!  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:27 PM   #170 
           - That really is amazing.  Jack Sprat   Jun-14-09 12:12 AM   #174 
  - And I can google "How to perform open-heart surgery" in a few seconds as well  NickB79   Jun-13-09 11:21 AM   #12 
  - If you compare planting potatoes to open heart surgery, and feel they involve the same level of  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:34 AM   #13 
     - I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food  NickB79   Jun-13-09 12:35 PM   #28 
        - Good post.. Thank you. n/t  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:43 PM   #31 
        - Your last sentence says it all  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:47 PM   #34 
        - If "disaster" is the norm, then you are in the wrong line of work.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:15 PM   #84 
           - During the Great Depression, millions lived almost entirely off what they could grow themselves  NickB79   Jun-13-09 04:39 PM   #103 
           - We did not have a distribution system back then like we do today. That's just not true.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:53 PM   #105 
              - you're actually making some of my arguments in this post that you refuted before  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:03 PM   #128 
                 - Well, whatever gets you through the night, I guess!  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:11 PM   #132 
           - My grand parents lived in Western Oklamahoma during the 30s.  Thothmes   Jun-13-09 07:09 PM   #141 
              - The Dust Bowl--a lot like Flint Michigan, today. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:55 PM   #152 
  - I wanted to respond to your post to counter your arguments  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:36 PM   #29 
  - I guess calling people asshats makes you feel special. How sad for you.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:28 PM   #87 
  - California is abandoning entitlements.  girl gone mad   Jun-13-09 07:59 PM   #143 
  - that's part of my point, yes. The other part is that we are structurally dependent on distribution  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:43 AM   #14 
     - I agree..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:15 PM   #24 
        - Interesting book  Yupster   Jun-13-09 12:31 PM   #26 
           - If electricity no longer works we die instantly anyway..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:45 PM   #32 
  - Your incite leads to one question: Will our safety net be strong enough  jwirr   Jun-13-09 10:59 AM   #9 
  - Like I said--you need more money, you print it. You create a false economy.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:44 AM   #16 
  - Well, we'll have to disagree. The reason many homeless still eat is current distribution  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:47 AM   #18 
  - Who is going to "eliminate that structure"--really. Why would they?  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:57 AM   #20 
     - All it would take would be a severe enough curtailment of oil..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:12 PM   #23 
     - You'd see trains come back in a big way. All those old right of ways? They'd be  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:46 PM   #33 
        - And how many years will that take to implement?  NickB79   Jun-13-09 01:03 PM   #39 
        - Oh fachrissake. It takes an hour to uncap an 'unprofitable" well and  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:52 PM   #50 
           - I honestly don't think you're really listening to or attempting to understand  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:28 PM   #58 
              - I don't have patience for this viewpoint that people are going to sit around doing nothing  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:35 PM   #88 
                 - You were the one saying people could learn things from "the Youtube"..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:59 PM   #93 
                    - Now you're making stuff up.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:27 PM   #101 
        - In terms of ton-miles per gallon I strongly suspect an 18 wheeler is more efficient  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 01:14 PM   #44 
           - The piaggio goes to the train, where the freight is offloaded. Or the large truck driver takes  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:00 PM   #51 
              - But they do not exist now..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:34 PM   #62 
                 - You could do the same thing with a less costly riceburner. The brand is beside the point.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:02 PM   #94 
                    - I'm not a mind reader..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 04:16 PM   #98 
                       - I didn't realize you were quite so concrete. nt  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:28 PM   #102 
     - I fail to see how anything I've discussed is "asinine".  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:04 PM   #40 
        - Why are you taking this so personally? I said NOTHING insulting about you. Not a word.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:13 PM   #96 
           - In post #90 you called him ignorant..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 04:19 PM   #99 
              - I did not. You have a problem with a word definition, I see  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:39 PM   #104 
                 - Your words, verbatim.  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:32 PM   #110 
                    - Yes, so?  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:34 PM   #113 
                       - We aren't discussing just one topic..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:41 PM   #118 
                          - You've got eyes, you can read the thread again.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:54 PM   #122 
                             - I'm interested in *you* opinion of which topic it was that the poster could not discuss..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 06:46 PM   #139 
                                - I have plainly articulated my views already in this thread. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:21 PM   #146 
                                   - Sidestep the question, eh?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 08:58 PM   #153 
                                      - I have already answered your question in this thread. I am not sidestepping.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:03 PM   #155 
                                         - This is a very long thread now, I'm not going to reread the entire damn thing..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:06 PM   #157 
                                            - Well, toddle up around post ninety, that might help you sort it out. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:16 PM   #160 
                                            - I already quoted part of post 90 back to you  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:27 PM   #164 
                                            - Read the whole post. You should be able to grasp context when you do that. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:50 PM   #167 
                                            - You could have easily answered my question by now..  Fumesucker   Jun-14-09 10:50 AM   #177 
                                            - One more time. Read the post. The answer isn't "in" the post, the answer IS the post.  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:16 PM   #180 
  - Your arguments don't compute.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 04:04 PM   #95 
     - Yes, they do compute. And calling people "delusional" isn't the way to make your point.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:14 PM   #108 
     - Calling people "ignorant" and "immature" is not the way to make a point either.. n/t  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:33 PM   #112 
     - I didn't do that, though. Even though you keep trying to twist my words, I refute your assertion.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:37 PM   #115 
     - If Americans were as smart as you think, we would NOT be in this predicament.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 06:24 PM   #136 
        - thanks for your rational post  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:25 PM   #138 
        - We were led by a thief who stole from us. Now we need to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off,  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:13 PM   #158 
           - We were led by a thief because we were stupid enough to elect him..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:24 PM   #162 
              - We didn't elect him. We elected a guy named GORE. The Supremes screwed us.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:49 PM   #166 
     - interesting thoughts in this thread  DeschutesRiver   Jun-13-09 09:24 PM   #163 
  - I think clearly the answer, is: not all of us.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:45 AM   #17 
  - I appreciate that history...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 12:48 PM   #35 
     - Or, in my case, I was denied unemployment benefits outright  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:06 PM   #41 
     - I have a relative who quit in anger from a job--big mistake. You can only collect if you are fired.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:32 PM   #111 
        - I understand how it works. I'm making the point that the safety net has holes  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:56 PM   #123 
           - I beg your pardon? I didn't say anything about YOU quitting in anger.  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:02 PM   #127 
              - wow. such projection.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:04 PM   #129 
                 - Yes, you are projecting. I talked about my relative, in a declarative sentence,  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:13 PM   #133 
                    - I'll give you that point  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:22 PM   #135 
                       - I have not said a single "scathing" thing about you. Your deliberate misrepresentation of what  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:03 PM   #144 
                          - LOL!  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:25 PM   #148 
                             - No, they won't, but keep saying that if it gets you through the night. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:14 PM   #159 
     - I watch the unemployment rate closely--I do think it is an indicator.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:29 PM   #109 
  - A depression would be GREAT right now!  Swamp Rat   Jun-13-09 10:23 AM   #5 
  - It would be "great" because a lot of people might lose their ego trips.  bobbolink   Jun-13-09 03:08 PM   #83 
  - For many, it will be a lot tougher  tech3149   Jun-13-09 10:47 AM   #7 
  - Those Homeowner restrictions will go out the window if times get tough enough.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:10 AM   #10 
     - perhaps, but how much will it take to tip the scale? and what will people eat in the meantime?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:44 AM   #15 
     - They'll disobey the HOA, and their NEIGHBORS will tell the HOA to STFU.  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:02 PM   #21 
        - You're the sole voice of reason on this thread.  ContinentalOp   Jun-13-09 12:32 PM   #27 
           - I'm anything but a gardner..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:40 PM   #30 
           - uh... so you're saying you just have some small undefinable hunch that things would be catastrophic  ContinentalOp   Jun-13-09 12:54 PM   #37 
              - similar to saying existing safey nets would survive a depression without saying why or how  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:08 PM   #42 
              - Print more money.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:03 PM   #52 
                 - you mean like preWWII germany?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:12 PM   #53 
                    - I didn't say it was a solution. It is an answer to a flaky postulation, that won't come to pass.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:24 PM   #56 
                       - I edited the post, but I will reiterate that your suggestion is to further devalue devalued currency  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:26 PM   #57 
                          - In Weimar Germany, if you left a wheelbarrow full of bank notes  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:50 PM   #71 
                          - The Germans would have done well to subsidize staples, like other governments have done in the past.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:40 PM   #117 
                          - I am responding to your idea that the sky is falling. I am only postulating solutions to  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:01 PM   #77 
                             - heres the thing: you're highly dismissive of the posts of others in this thread, but  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:02 PM   #79 
                             - I'm not "predicting" anything at all..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:05 PM   #82 
                                - The OP wanted to know if it was worse back then than now. That answer is obvious.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:24 PM   #86 
                                   - I read it somewhat differently..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:50 PM   #91 
                                   - I think the answer is clear that Americans are more able, not less so, to cope.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:58 PM   #106 
                                   - People are far more specialized now than they were around the time of the Depression..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:39 PM   #116 
                                      - They are. That could be good, or bad, depending on what they end up doing if they  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:44 PM   #119 
                                      - Changing careers implies that there will be other careers to change to... which, in a depression  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:00 PM   #126 
                                      - Someone who is a painter, who has built their own home, can do a lot  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:09 PM   #131 
                                      - Are you even following economic news lately?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:20 PM   #134 
                                      - I did not suggest that "we all" do anything of the sort.  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:20 PM   #145 
                                      - the odd thing is, I AM discussing this topic...its MY topic  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:27 PM   #149 
                                      - You don't want to talk about your OWN original thesis, though, and you're getting mad at me because  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:00 PM   #154 
                                   - yes, that is a proper reading of my OP  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:57 PM   #124 
                                   - you completely (and perhaps intentionally) misread my OP  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:51 PM   #120 
                                      - I am not trashing you, personally or otherwise, and I don't understand why you are making those  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:58 PM   #125 
              - Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 01:16 PM   #45 
           - Sadly, too many people believe that the paradigm is to sit idly by, and let everything go to hell.  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:49 PM   #36 
              - I have been preparing our family for tough times...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 01:01 PM   #38 
              - I wouldn't be terrified if I were you. What good does that do you?  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:27 PM   #48 
                 - Well, maybe terrified was too strong a word...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 02:38 PM   #63 
                    - I think concern is quite sensible. We've all got to keep our wits about us, and  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:05 AM   #172 
              - ironically, aren't you suggesting exactly that?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:10 PM   #43 
                 - No, I'm not. There's fluff, and there's necessity. A lot of people confuse the two.  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:23 PM   #46 
                    - nevermind  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:35 PM   #49 
                    - There's a surprising number of "hands on" type jobs lost just in that sentence..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:17 PM   #54 
                       - Some people fail to see the economy as in interrelated organism.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:31 PM   #60 
                       - Those jobs aren't lost, they're just working less. And maybe those Union Wages might have to take a  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:47 PM   #69 
                          - ah, so the Unions are evil argument raises its ugly head.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:54 PM   #73 
                          - Why do you keep doing this? I did not say that at all.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:59 PM   #171 
                          - I mentioned that he designed his own home with a pencil on a blank sheet of paper  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:55 PM   #74 
                             - let's review the superior strategy of our friend here...  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:59 PM   #75 
                             - OK Lerkfish, you just are showing your ignorance and inability to discuss  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:49 PM   #90 
                             - I think he'd be booked months in advance. If he wanted to rip off the gubmint,  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:42 PM   #89 
                                - It's not as easy as you might think..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:52 PM   #92 
                                   - Well, the guy who is my handyman is going to repair my porch this summer.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:23 PM   #100 
                                      - You hand wave away every objection to your rose colored glasses view of the world..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:35 PM   #114 
                                         - People in recent years have been highly "job mobile." It's the new paradigm.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:52 PM   #121 
                                            - There are a diminishing number of jobs..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 06:49 PM   #140 
                                               - I do grasp it. And the negative, griping people who don't compete for those jobs aren't going to  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:24 PM   #147 
                                                  - sadly, I don't think your grasping it at all  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:32 PM   #150 
                                                  - Think what you like, but do stop twisting both my words and meanings.  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:54 PM   #151 
                                                  - Mr Micawber, is that you?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:05 PM   #156 
                                                  - Optimists live longer. I have no interest in dying prematurely.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:19 PM   #161 
                                                  - Is it cause or is it effect though?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:28 PM   #165 
                                                  - Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:50 PM   #168 
                                                  - I'll just point out that I haven't revealed my personal philosophy at all in this thread..  Fumesucker   Jun-14-09 10:48 AM   #176 
                                                  - You called me McCawber. Thus, my discussion of optimism.  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:15 PM   #179 
     - Agreed when times are tough the rules will change  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:25 PM   #25 
     - The technology was simpler even 20 years ago. Today, products are unfixable or difficult to fix.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 05:12 PM   #107 
  - Here are some things my grandmother told me  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-13-09 01:24 PM   #47 
  - People gave a shit about each other back then... today it's everyone for themselves.  bobbolink   Jun-13-09 02:30 PM   #59 
  - Good point. We've shed the concept of community responsibility rather gradually  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:39 PM   #64 
  - On the positive side...  Silent3   Jun-13-09 02:32 PM   #61 
  - My guess: worse now. THE SPECIALIZATION TRAP  texanshatingbush   Jun-13-09 02:41 PM   #66 
  - wow. that's exactly what I was referring to  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:45 PM   #68 
  - As Heinlein once said..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:00 PM   #76 
     - I love that phrase. It is true. A man should not depend on a single trade nt  conspirator   Jun-13-09 07:43 PM   #142 
  - One possible aid to the problem I've suggested in the past is to farm  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:42 PM   #67 
  - Possibly, but that's not a good environment for plants  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-13-09 02:49 PM   #70 
     - Valid point, but easily enough accomodated  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:04 PM   #81 
  - you're right  shanti   Jun-13-09 04:15 PM   #97 
  - *If* we enter a new depression, I seriously doubt it will be as bad as the Great Depression.  That Is Quite Enough   Jun-13-09 06:08 PM   #130 
     - ok, but what would prevent something worse from happening?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:24 PM   #137 
        - How would it NOT get distributed?  ContinentalOp   Jun-14-09 12:11 AM   #173 
           - ok. if the virtual collapse of the great depression were overlaid on the current structure  Lerkfish   Jun-14-09 05:25 AM   #175 
              - What does that have to do with distribution?  ContinentalOp   Jun-14-09 11:44 AM   #178 

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