| 157. This is a very long thread now, I'm not going to reread the entire damn thing.. |
|
Looking for some will o' the wisp of an answer when you could easily put my mind at rest with a couple of sentences.
|
| -Depression: better now or back in the 1930s? Which would have the higher survival rate? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 09:57 AM |
#0 |
 -
There are a lot of myths about the Great Depression, and stuff left out. |
imdjh |
Jun-13-09 10:14 AM |
#1 |
| -
Worse today...for sure... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 10:15 AM |
#2 |
| -
I think it will be a disaster |
Mojorabbit |
Jun-13-09 10:15 AM |
#3 |
| -
There is no comparing then to now. People killed themselves in droves. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 10:17 AM |
#4 |
 -
The point of the OP though is that if it comes to the same point again.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 10:30 AM |
#6 |
| -
No, we won't, because we won't abandon entitlement programs. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 10:55 AM |
#8 |
| -
California is already talking about ending entitlements.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 11:17 AM |
#11 |
 -
Your perfect won't be the enemy of the good. "Less serious" gardeners, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:49 AM |
#19 |
| -
But will they figure it out before they starve? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:10 PM |
#22 |
| -
Of course they will. Jesus, people who couldn't read and write manage to figure this stuff out. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:21 PM |
#55 |
| -
Crop failures happen.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:39 PM |
#65 |
| -
They're not the NORM, though. You're trying to make the unlikely likely. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:52 PM |
#72 |
| -
In a survival situation.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:01 PM |
#78 |
| -
yup, and only more so with high specialization. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:03 PM |
#80 |
| -
Unless you move to Africa, you're not going to find yourself in that sort of situation. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:16 PM |
#85 |
| -
In a garbage can??? |
Jack Sprat |
Jun-13-09 10:03 PM |
#169 |
| -
No, you need dirt. Really, though--it's easy. Takes up no space, too! |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:27 PM |
#170 |
| -
That really is amazing. |
Jack Sprat |
Jun-14-09 12:12 AM |
#174 |
| -
And I can google "How to perform open-heart surgery" in a few seconds as well |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 11:21 AM |
#12 |
| -
If you compare planting potatoes to open heart surgery, and feel they involve the same level of |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:34 AM |
#13 |
| -
I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 12:35 PM |
#28 |
| -
Good post.. Thank you. n/t |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:43 PM |
#31 |
| -
Your last sentence says it all |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:47 PM |
#34 |
| -
If "disaster" is the norm, then you are in the wrong line of work. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:15 PM |
#84 |
| -
During the Great Depression, millions lived almost entirely off what they could grow themselves |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 04:39 PM |
#103 |
| -
We did not have a distribution system back then like we do today. That's just not true. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:53 PM |
#105 |
| -
you're actually making some of my arguments in this post that you refuted before |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:03 PM |
#128 |
| -
Well, whatever gets you through the night, I guess! |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:11 PM |
#132 |
| -
My grand parents lived in Western Oklamahoma during the 30s. |
Thothmes |
Jun-13-09 07:09 PM |
#141 |
| -
The Dust Bowl--a lot like Flint Michigan, today. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:55 PM |
#152 |
| -
I wanted to respond to your post to counter your arguments |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:36 PM |
#29 |
| -
I guess calling people asshats makes you feel special. How sad for you. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:28 PM |
#87 |
| -
California is abandoning entitlements. |
girl gone mad |
Jun-13-09 07:59 PM |
#143 |
| -
that's part of my point, yes. The other part is that we are structurally dependent on distribution |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:43 AM |
#14 |
| -
I agree.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:15 PM |
#24 |
| -
Interesting book |
Yupster |
Jun-13-09 12:31 PM |
#26 |
| -
If electricity no longer works we die instantly anyway.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:45 PM |
#32 |
| -
Your incite leads to one question: Will our safety net be strong enough |
jwirr |
Jun-13-09 10:59 AM |
#9 |
| -
Like I said--you need more money, you print it. You create a false economy. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:44 AM |
#16 |
| -
Well, we'll have to disagree. The reason many homeless still eat is current distribution |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:47 AM |
#18 |
| -
Who is going to "eliminate that structure"--really. Why would they? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:57 AM |
#20 |
| -
All it would take would be a severe enough curtailment of oil.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:12 PM |
#23 |
| -
You'd see trains come back in a big way. All those old right of ways? They'd be |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:46 PM |
#33 |
| -
And how many years will that take to implement? |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 01:03 PM |
#39 |
| -
Oh fachrissake. It takes an hour to uncap an 'unprofitable" well and |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:52 PM |
#50 |
| -
I honestly don't think you're really listening to or attempting to understand |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:28 PM |
#58 |
| -
I don't have patience for this viewpoint that people are going to sit around doing nothing |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:35 PM |
#88 |
| -
You were the one saying people could learn things from "the Youtube".. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:59 PM |
#93 |
| -
Now you're making stuff up. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:27 PM |
#101 |
| -
In terms of ton-miles per gallon I strongly suspect an 18 wheeler is more efficient |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 01:14 PM |
#44 |
| -
The piaggio goes to the train, where the freight is offloaded. Or the large truck driver takes |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:00 PM |
#51 |
| -
But they do not exist now.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:34 PM |
#62 |
| -
You could do the same thing with a less costly riceburner. The brand is beside the point. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:02 PM |
#94 |
| -
I'm not a mind reader.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 04:16 PM |
#98 |
| -
I didn't realize you were quite so concrete. nt |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:28 PM |
#102 |
| -
I fail to see how anything I've discussed is "asinine". |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:04 PM |
#40 |
| -
Why are you taking this so personally? I said NOTHING insulting about you. Not a word. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:13 PM |
#96 |
| -
In post #90 you called him ignorant.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 04:19 PM |
#99 |
| -
I did not. You have a problem with a word definition, I see |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:39 PM |
#104 |
| -
Your words, verbatim. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:32 PM |
#110 |
| -
Yes, so? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:34 PM |
#113 |
| -
We aren't discussing just one topic.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:41 PM |
#118 |
| -
You've got eyes, you can read the thread again. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:54 PM |
#122 |
| -
I'm interested in *you* opinion of which topic it was that the poster could not discuss.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 06:46 PM |
#139 |
| -
I have plainly articulated my views already in this thread. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:21 PM |
#146 |
| -
Sidestep the question, eh? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 08:58 PM |
#153 |
| -
I have already answered your question in this thread. I am not sidestepping. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:03 PM |
#155 |
| -
This is a very long thread now, I'm not going to reread the entire damn thing.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:06 PM |
#157 |
| -
Well, toddle up around post ninety, that might help you sort it out. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:16 PM |
#160 |
| -
I already quoted part of post 90 back to you |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:27 PM |
#164 |
| -
Read the whole post. You should be able to grasp context when you do that. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:50 PM |
#167 |
| -
You could have easily answered my question by now.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-14-09 10:50 AM |
#177 |
| -
One more time. Read the post. The answer isn't "in" the post, the answer IS the post. |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:16 PM |
#180 |
| -
Your arguments don't compute. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 04:04 PM |
#95 |
| -
Yes, they do compute. And calling people "delusional" isn't the way to make your point. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:14 PM |
#108 |
| -
Calling people "ignorant" and "immature" is not the way to make a point either.. n/t |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:33 PM |
#112 |
| -
I didn't do that, though. Even though you keep trying to twist my words, I refute your assertion. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:37 PM |
#115 |
| -
If Americans were as smart as you think, we would NOT be in this predicament. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 06:24 PM |
#136 |
| -
thanks for your rational post |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:25 PM |
#138 |
| -
We were led by a thief who stole from us. Now we need to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:13 PM |
#158 |
| -
We were led by a thief because we were stupid enough to elect him.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:24 PM |
#162 |
| -
We didn't elect him. We elected a guy named GORE. The Supremes screwed us. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:49 PM |
#166 |
| -
interesting thoughts in this thread |
DeschutesRiver |
Jun-13-09 09:24 PM |
#163 |
| -
I think clearly the answer, is: not all of us. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:45 AM |
#17 |
| -
I appreciate that history... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 12:48 PM |
#35 |
| -
Or, in my case, I was denied unemployment benefits outright |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:06 PM |
#41 |
| -
I have a relative who quit in anger from a job--big mistake. You can only collect if you are fired. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:32 PM |
#111 |
| -
I understand how it works. I'm making the point that the safety net has holes |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:56 PM |
#123 |
| -
I beg your pardon? I didn't say anything about YOU quitting in anger. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:02 PM |
#127 |
| -
wow. such projection. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:04 PM |
#129 |
| -
Yes, you are projecting. I talked about my relative, in a declarative sentence, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:13 PM |
#133 |
| -
I'll give you that point |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:22 PM |
#135 |
| -
I have not said a single "scathing" thing about you. Your deliberate misrepresentation of what |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:03 PM |
#144 |
| -
LOL! |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:25 PM |
#148 |
| -
No, they won't, but keep saying that if it gets you through the night. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:14 PM |
#159 |
| -
I watch the unemployment rate closely--I do think it is an indicator. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:29 PM |
#109 |
| -
A depression would be GREAT right now! |
Swamp Rat |
Jun-13-09 10:23 AM |
#5 |
| -
It would be "great" because a lot of people might lose their ego trips. |
bobbolink |
Jun-13-09 03:08 PM |
#83 |
| -
For many, it will be a lot tougher |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 10:47 AM |
#7 |
| -
Those Homeowner restrictions will go out the window if times get tough enough. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:10 AM |
#10 |
| -
perhaps, but how much will it take to tip the scale? and what will people eat in the meantime? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:44 AM |
#15 |
| -
They'll disobey the HOA, and their NEIGHBORS will tell the HOA to STFU. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:02 PM |
#21 |
| -
You're the sole voice of reason on this thread. |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-13-09 12:32 PM |
#27 |
| -
I'm anything but a gardner.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:40 PM |
#30 |
| -
uh... so you're saying you just have some small undefinable hunch that things would be catastrophic |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-13-09 12:54 PM |
#37 |
| -
similar to saying existing safey nets would survive a depression without saying why or how |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:08 PM |
#42 |
| -
Print more money. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:03 PM |
#52 |
| -
you mean like preWWII germany? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:12 PM |
#53 |
| -
I didn't say it was a solution. It is an answer to a flaky postulation, that won't come to pass. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:24 PM |
#56 |
| -
I edited the post, but I will reiterate that your suggestion is to further devalue devalued currency |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:26 PM |
#57 |
| -
In Weimar Germany, if you left a wheelbarrow full of bank notes |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:50 PM |
#71 |
| -
The Germans would have done well to subsidize staples, like other governments have done in the past. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:40 PM |
#117 |
| -
I am responding to your idea that the sky is falling. I am only postulating solutions to |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:01 PM |
#77 |
| -
heres the thing: you're highly dismissive of the posts of others in this thread, but |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:02 PM |
#79 |
| -
I'm not "predicting" anything at all.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:05 PM |
#82 |
| -
The OP wanted to know if it was worse back then than now. That answer is obvious. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:24 PM |
#86 |
| -
I read it somewhat differently.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:50 PM |
#91 |
| -
I think the answer is clear that Americans are more able, not less so, to cope. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:58 PM |
#106 |
| -
People are far more specialized now than they were around the time of the Depression.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:39 PM |
#116 |
| -
They are. That could be good, or bad, depending on what they end up doing if they |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:44 PM |
#119 |
| -
Changing careers implies that there will be other careers to change to... which, in a depression |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:00 PM |
#126 |
| -
Someone who is a painter, who has built their own home, can do a lot |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:09 PM |
#131 |
| -
Are you even following economic news lately? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:20 PM |
#134 |
| -
I did not suggest that "we all" do anything of the sort. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:20 PM |
#145 |
| -
the odd thing is, I AM discussing this topic...its MY topic |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:27 PM |
#149 |
| -
You don't want to talk about your OWN original thesis, though, and you're getting mad at me because |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:00 PM |
#154 |
| -
yes, that is a proper reading of my OP |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:57 PM |
#124 |
| -
you completely (and perhaps intentionally) misread my OP |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:51 PM |
#120 |
| -
I am not trashing you, personally or otherwise, and I don't understand why you are making those |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:58 PM |
#125 |
| -
Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 01:16 PM |
#45 |
| -
Sadly, too many people believe that the paradigm is to sit idly by, and let everything go to hell. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:49 PM |
#36 |
| -
I have been preparing our family for tough times... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 01:01 PM |
#38 |
| -
I wouldn't be terrified if I were you. What good does that do you? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:27 PM |
#48 |
| -
Well, maybe terrified was too strong a word... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 02:38 PM |
#63 |
| -
I think concern is quite sensible. We've all got to keep our wits about us, and |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:05 AM |
#172 |
| -
ironically, aren't you suggesting exactly that? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:10 PM |
#43 |
| -
No, I'm not. There's fluff, and there's necessity. A lot of people confuse the two. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:23 PM |
#46 |
| -
nevermind |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:35 PM |
#49 |
| -
There's a surprising number of "hands on" type jobs lost just in that sentence.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:17 PM |
#54 |
| -
Some people fail to see the economy as in interrelated organism. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:31 PM |
#60 |
| -
Those jobs aren't lost, they're just working less. And maybe those Union Wages might have to take a |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:47 PM |
#69 |
| -
ah, so the Unions are evil argument raises its ugly head. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:54 PM |
#73 |
| -
Why do you keep doing this? I did not say that at all. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:59 PM |
#171 |
| -
I mentioned that he designed his own home with a pencil on a blank sheet of paper |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:55 PM |
#74 |
| -
let's review the superior strategy of our friend here... |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:59 PM |
#75 |
| -
OK Lerkfish, you just are showing your ignorance and inability to discuss |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:49 PM |
#90 |
| -
I think he'd be booked months in advance. If he wanted to rip off the gubmint, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:42 PM |
#89 |
| -
It's not as easy as you might think.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:52 PM |
#92 |
| -
Well, the guy who is my handyman is going to repair my porch this summer. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:23 PM |
#100 |
| -
You hand wave away every objection to your rose colored glasses view of the world.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:35 PM |
#114 |
| -
People in recent years have been highly "job mobile." It's the new paradigm. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:52 PM |
#121 |
| -
There are a diminishing number of jobs.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 06:49 PM |
#140 |
| -
I do grasp it. And the negative, griping people who don't compete for those jobs aren't going to |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:24 PM |
#147 |
| -
sadly, I don't think your grasping it at all |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:32 PM |
#150 |
| -
Think what you like, but do stop twisting both my words and meanings. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:54 PM |
#151 |
| -
Mr Micawber, is that you? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:05 PM |
#156 |
| -
Optimists live longer. I have no interest in dying prematurely. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:19 PM |
#161 |
| -
Is it cause or is it effect though? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:28 PM |
#165 |
| -
Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:50 PM |
#168 |
| -
I'll just point out that I haven't revealed my personal philosophy at all in this thread.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-14-09 10:48 AM |
#176 |
| -
You called me McCawber. Thus, my discussion of optimism. |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:15 PM |
#179 |
| -
Agreed when times are tough the rules will change |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:25 PM |
#25 |
| -
The technology was simpler even 20 years ago. Today, products are unfixable or difficult to fix. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 05:12 PM |
#107 |
| -
Here are some things my grandmother told me |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-13-09 01:24 PM |
#47 |
| -
People gave a shit about each other back then... today it's everyone for themselves. |
bobbolink |
Jun-13-09 02:30 PM |
#59 |
| -
Good point. We've shed the concept of community responsibility rather gradually |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:39 PM |
#64 |
| -
On the positive side... |
Silent3 |
Jun-13-09 02:32 PM |
#61 |
| -
My guess: worse now. THE SPECIALIZATION TRAP |
texanshatingbush |
Jun-13-09 02:41 PM |
#66 |
| -
wow. that's exactly what I was referring to |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:45 PM |
#68 |
| -
As Heinlein once said.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:00 PM |
#76 |
| -
I love that phrase. It is true. A man should not depend on a single trade nt |
conspirator |
Jun-13-09 07:43 PM |
#142 |
| -
One possible aid to the problem I've suggested in the past is to farm |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:42 PM |
#67 |
| -
Possibly, but that's not a good environment for plants |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-13-09 02:49 PM |
#70 |
| -
Valid point, but easily enough accomodated |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:04 PM |
#81 |
| -
you're right |
shanti |
Jun-13-09 04:15 PM |
#97 |
| -
*If* we enter a new depression, I seriously doubt it will be as bad as the Great Depression. |
That Is Quite Enough |
Jun-13-09 06:08 PM |
#130 |
| -
ok, but what would prevent something worse from happening? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:24 PM |
#137 |
| -
How would it NOT get distributed? |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-14-09 12:11 AM |
#173 |
| -
ok. if the virtual collapse of the great depression were overlaid on the current structure |
Lerkfish |
Jun-14-09 05:25 AM |
#175 |
| -
What does that have to do with distribution? |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-14-09 11:44 AM |
#178 |
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