| 96. Why are you taking this so personally? I said NOTHING insulting about you. Not a word. |
|
I said that these apocalyptic scenarios are asinine, and they are. They require the total and complete collapse of the federal government, and no small degree of anarchy.
Unless your name is "Apocalyptic Scenario," I didn't pick on you.
That's not the thread topic--the thread topic is along the lines of "Was the Great Depression worse than what we're going through now?"
If the thread topic were "What will we do if the federal government disappeared overnight and we were all left to our own devices?" then these dire scenarios might have a place. I'm not the one doing the derailing here, either--this thread has gone from a "then and now" comparison of two economic downturns in the last century, to "Aggggh!!!! DOOM!!!! Glooooom!!!!!! Everyone is on their own!!! You'll have to grow food to survive, and if your crop fails, you're DEAD, I tell ya--DEAD!!! Because there will be peak oil...and no distribution system! None!!!"
It's just .... asinine, as I said. And to repeat, I didn't say YOU were, so stow the hurt feelings.
|
| -Depression: better now or back in the 1930s? Which would have the higher survival rate? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 09:57 AM |
#0 |
 -
There are a lot of myths about the Great Depression, and stuff left out. |
imdjh |
Jun-13-09 10:14 AM |
#1 |
| -
Worse today...for sure... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 10:15 AM |
#2 |
| -
I think it will be a disaster |
Mojorabbit |
Jun-13-09 10:15 AM |
#3 |
| -
There is no comparing then to now. People killed themselves in droves. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 10:17 AM |
#4 |
 -
The point of the OP though is that if it comes to the same point again.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 10:30 AM |
#6 |
| -
No, we won't, because we won't abandon entitlement programs. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 10:55 AM |
#8 |
| -
California is already talking about ending entitlements.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 11:17 AM |
#11 |
 -
Your perfect won't be the enemy of the good. "Less serious" gardeners, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:49 AM |
#19 |
| -
But will they figure it out before they starve? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:10 PM |
#22 |
| -
Of course they will. Jesus, people who couldn't read and write manage to figure this stuff out. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:21 PM |
#55 |
| -
Crop failures happen.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:39 PM |
#65 |
| -
They're not the NORM, though. You're trying to make the unlikely likely. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:52 PM |
#72 |
| -
In a survival situation.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:01 PM |
#78 |
| -
yup, and only more so with high specialization. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:03 PM |
#80 |
| -
Unless you move to Africa, you're not going to find yourself in that sort of situation. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:16 PM |
#85 |
| -
In a garbage can??? |
Jack Sprat |
Jun-13-09 10:03 PM |
#169 |
| -
No, you need dirt. Really, though--it's easy. Takes up no space, too! |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:27 PM |
#170 |
| -
That really is amazing. |
Jack Sprat |
Jun-14-09 12:12 AM |
#174 |
| -
And I can google "How to perform open-heart surgery" in a few seconds as well |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 11:21 AM |
#12 |
| -
If you compare planting potatoes to open heart surgery, and feel they involve the same level of |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:34 AM |
#13 |
| -
I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 12:35 PM |
#28 |
| -
Good post.. Thank you. n/t |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:43 PM |
#31 |
| -
Your last sentence says it all |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:47 PM |
#34 |
| -
If "disaster" is the norm, then you are in the wrong line of work. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:15 PM |
#84 |
| -
During the Great Depression, millions lived almost entirely off what they could grow themselves |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 04:39 PM |
#103 |
| -
We did not have a distribution system back then like we do today. That's just not true. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:53 PM |
#105 |
| -
you're actually making some of my arguments in this post that you refuted before |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:03 PM |
#128 |
| -
Well, whatever gets you through the night, I guess! |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:11 PM |
#132 |
| -
My grand parents lived in Western Oklamahoma during the 30s. |
Thothmes |
Jun-13-09 07:09 PM |
#141 |
| -
The Dust Bowl--a lot like Flint Michigan, today. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:55 PM |
#152 |
| -
I wanted to respond to your post to counter your arguments |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:36 PM |
#29 |
| -
I guess calling people asshats makes you feel special. How sad for you. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:28 PM |
#87 |
| -
California is abandoning entitlements. |
girl gone mad |
Jun-13-09 07:59 PM |
#143 |
| -
that's part of my point, yes. The other part is that we are structurally dependent on distribution |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:43 AM |
#14 |
| -
I agree.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:15 PM |
#24 |
| -
Interesting book |
Yupster |
Jun-13-09 12:31 PM |
#26 |
| -
If electricity no longer works we die instantly anyway.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:45 PM |
#32 |
| -
Your incite leads to one question: Will our safety net be strong enough |
jwirr |
Jun-13-09 10:59 AM |
#9 |
| -
Like I said--you need more money, you print it. You create a false economy. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:44 AM |
#16 |
| -
Well, we'll have to disagree. The reason many homeless still eat is current distribution |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:47 AM |
#18 |
| -
Who is going to "eliminate that structure"--really. Why would they? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:57 AM |
#20 |
| -
All it would take would be a severe enough curtailment of oil.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:12 PM |
#23 |
| -
You'd see trains come back in a big way. All those old right of ways? They'd be |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:46 PM |
#33 |
| -
And how many years will that take to implement? |
NickB79 |
Jun-13-09 01:03 PM |
#39 |
| -
Oh fachrissake. It takes an hour to uncap an 'unprofitable" well and |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:52 PM |
#50 |
| -
I honestly don't think you're really listening to or attempting to understand |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:28 PM |
#58 |
| -
I don't have patience for this viewpoint that people are going to sit around doing nothing |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:35 PM |
#88 |
| -
You were the one saying people could learn things from "the Youtube".. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:59 PM |
#93 |
| -
Now you're making stuff up. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:27 PM |
#101 |
| -
In terms of ton-miles per gallon I strongly suspect an 18 wheeler is more efficient |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 01:14 PM |
#44 |
| -
The piaggio goes to the train, where the freight is offloaded. Or the large truck driver takes |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:00 PM |
#51 |
| -
But they do not exist now.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:34 PM |
#62 |
| -
You could do the same thing with a less costly riceburner. The brand is beside the point. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:02 PM |
#94 |
| -
I'm not a mind reader.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 04:16 PM |
#98 |
| -
I didn't realize you were quite so concrete. nt |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:28 PM |
#102 |
| -
I fail to see how anything I've discussed is "asinine". |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:04 PM |
#40 |
| -
Why are you taking this so personally? I said NOTHING insulting about you. Not a word. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:13 PM |
#96 |
| -
In post #90 you called him ignorant.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 04:19 PM |
#99 |
| -
I did not. You have a problem with a word definition, I see |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:39 PM |
#104 |
| -
Your words, verbatim. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:32 PM |
#110 |
| -
Yes, so? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:34 PM |
#113 |
| -
We aren't discussing just one topic.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:41 PM |
#118 |
| -
You've got eyes, you can read the thread again. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:54 PM |
#122 |
| -
I'm interested in *you* opinion of which topic it was that the poster could not discuss.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 06:46 PM |
#139 |
| -
I have plainly articulated my views already in this thread. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:21 PM |
#146 |
| -
Sidestep the question, eh? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 08:58 PM |
#153 |
| -
I have already answered your question in this thread. I am not sidestepping. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:03 PM |
#155 |
| -
This is a very long thread now, I'm not going to reread the entire damn thing.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:06 PM |
#157 |
| -
Well, toddle up around post ninety, that might help you sort it out. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:16 PM |
#160 |
| -
I already quoted part of post 90 back to you |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:27 PM |
#164 |
| -
Read the whole post. You should be able to grasp context when you do that. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:50 PM |
#167 |
| -
You could have easily answered my question by now.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-14-09 10:50 AM |
#177 |
| -
One more time. Read the post. The answer isn't "in" the post, the answer IS the post. |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:16 PM |
#180 |
| -
Your arguments don't compute. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 04:04 PM |
#95 |
| -
Yes, they do compute. And calling people "delusional" isn't the way to make your point. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:14 PM |
#108 |
| -
Calling people "ignorant" and "immature" is not the way to make a point either.. n/t |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:33 PM |
#112 |
| -
I didn't do that, though. Even though you keep trying to twist my words, I refute your assertion. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:37 PM |
#115 |
| -
If Americans were as smart as you think, we would NOT be in this predicament. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 06:24 PM |
#136 |
| -
thanks for your rational post |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:25 PM |
#138 |
| -
We were led by a thief who stole from us. Now we need to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:13 PM |
#158 |
| -
We were led by a thief because we were stupid enough to elect him.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:24 PM |
#162 |
| -
We didn't elect him. We elected a guy named GORE. The Supremes screwed us. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:49 PM |
#166 |
| -
interesting thoughts in this thread |
DeschutesRiver |
Jun-13-09 09:24 PM |
#163 |
| -
I think clearly the answer, is: not all of us. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:45 AM |
#17 |
| -
I appreciate that history... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 12:48 PM |
#35 |
| -
Or, in my case, I was denied unemployment benefits outright |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:06 PM |
#41 |
| -
I have a relative who quit in anger from a job--big mistake. You can only collect if you are fired. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:32 PM |
#111 |
| -
I understand how it works. I'm making the point that the safety net has holes |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:56 PM |
#123 |
| -
I beg your pardon? I didn't say anything about YOU quitting in anger. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:02 PM |
#127 |
| -
wow. such projection. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:04 PM |
#129 |
| -
Yes, you are projecting. I talked about my relative, in a declarative sentence, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:13 PM |
#133 |
| -
I'll give you that point |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:22 PM |
#135 |
| -
I have not said a single "scathing" thing about you. Your deliberate misrepresentation of what |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:03 PM |
#144 |
| -
LOL! |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:25 PM |
#148 |
| -
No, they won't, but keep saying that if it gets you through the night. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:14 PM |
#159 |
| -
I watch the unemployment rate closely--I do think it is an indicator. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:29 PM |
#109 |
| -
A depression would be GREAT right now! |
Swamp Rat |
Jun-13-09 10:23 AM |
#5 |
| -
It would be "great" because a lot of people might lose their ego trips. |
bobbolink |
Jun-13-09 03:08 PM |
#83 |
| -
For many, it will be a lot tougher |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 10:47 AM |
#7 |
| -
Those Homeowner restrictions will go out the window if times get tough enough. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:10 AM |
#10 |
| -
perhaps, but how much will it take to tip the scale? and what will people eat in the meantime? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 11:44 AM |
#15 |
| -
They'll disobey the HOA, and their NEIGHBORS will tell the HOA to STFU. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:02 PM |
#21 |
| -
You're the sole voice of reason on this thread. |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-13-09 12:32 PM |
#27 |
| -
I'm anything but a gardner.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 12:40 PM |
#30 |
| -
uh... so you're saying you just have some small undefinable hunch that things would be catastrophic |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-13-09 12:54 PM |
#37 |
| -
similar to saying existing safey nets would survive a depression without saying why or how |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:08 PM |
#42 |
| -
Print more money. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:03 PM |
#52 |
| -
you mean like preWWII germany? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:12 PM |
#53 |
| -
I didn't say it was a solution. It is an answer to a flaky postulation, that won't come to pass. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:24 PM |
#56 |
| -
I edited the post, but I will reiterate that your suggestion is to further devalue devalued currency |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:26 PM |
#57 |
| -
In Weimar Germany, if you left a wheelbarrow full of bank notes |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:50 PM |
#71 |
| -
The Germans would have done well to subsidize staples, like other governments have done in the past. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:40 PM |
#117 |
| -
I am responding to your idea that the sky is falling. I am only postulating solutions to |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:01 PM |
#77 |
| -
heres the thing: you're highly dismissive of the posts of others in this thread, but |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:02 PM |
#79 |
| -
I'm not "predicting" anything at all.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:05 PM |
#82 |
| -
The OP wanted to know if it was worse back then than now. That answer is obvious. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:24 PM |
#86 |
| -
I read it somewhat differently.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:50 PM |
#91 |
| -
I think the answer is clear that Americans are more able, not less so, to cope. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:58 PM |
#106 |
| -
People are far more specialized now than they were around the time of the Depression.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:39 PM |
#116 |
| -
They are. That could be good, or bad, depending on what they end up doing if they |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:44 PM |
#119 |
| -
Changing careers implies that there will be other careers to change to... which, in a depression |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:00 PM |
#126 |
| -
Someone who is a painter, who has built their own home, can do a lot |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 06:09 PM |
#131 |
| -
Are you even following economic news lately? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:20 PM |
#134 |
| -
I did not suggest that "we all" do anything of the sort. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:20 PM |
#145 |
| -
the odd thing is, I AM discussing this topic...its MY topic |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:27 PM |
#149 |
| -
You don't want to talk about your OWN original thesis, though, and you're getting mad at me because |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:00 PM |
#154 |
| -
yes, that is a proper reading of my OP |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:57 PM |
#124 |
| -
you completely (and perhaps intentionally) misread my OP |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 05:51 PM |
#120 |
| -
I am not trashing you, personally or otherwise, and I don't understand why you are making those |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:58 PM |
#125 |
| -
Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 01:16 PM |
#45 |
| -
Sadly, too many people believe that the paradigm is to sit idly by, and let everything go to hell. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 12:49 PM |
#36 |
| -
I have been preparing our family for tough times... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 01:01 PM |
#38 |
| -
I wouldn't be terrified if I were you. What good does that do you? |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:27 PM |
#48 |
| -
Well, maybe terrified was too strong a word... |
CoffeeCat |
Jun-13-09 02:38 PM |
#63 |
| -
I think concern is quite sensible. We've all got to keep our wits about us, and |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:05 AM |
#172 |
| -
ironically, aren't you suggesting exactly that? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:10 PM |
#43 |
| -
No, I'm not. There's fluff, and there's necessity. A lot of people confuse the two. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 01:23 PM |
#46 |
| -
nevermind |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 01:35 PM |
#49 |
| -
There's a surprising number of "hands on" type jobs lost just in that sentence.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:17 PM |
#54 |
| -
Some people fail to see the economy as in interrelated organism. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:31 PM |
#60 |
| -
Those jobs aren't lost, they're just working less. And maybe those Union Wages might have to take a |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 02:47 PM |
#69 |
| -
ah, so the Unions are evil argument raises its ugly head. |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:54 PM |
#73 |
| -
Why do you keep doing this? I did not say that at all. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 11:59 PM |
#171 |
| -
I mentioned that he designed his own home with a pencil on a blank sheet of paper |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 02:55 PM |
#74 |
| -
let's review the superior strategy of our friend here... |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:59 PM |
#75 |
| -
OK Lerkfish, you just are showing your ignorance and inability to discuss |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:49 PM |
#90 |
| -
I think he'd be booked months in advance. If he wanted to rip off the gubmint, |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 03:42 PM |
#89 |
| -
It's not as easy as you might think.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:52 PM |
#92 |
| -
Well, the guy who is my handyman is going to repair my porch this summer. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 04:23 PM |
#100 |
| -
You hand wave away every objection to your rose colored glasses view of the world.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 05:35 PM |
#114 |
| -
People in recent years have been highly "job mobile." It's the new paradigm. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 05:52 PM |
#121 |
| -
There are a diminishing number of jobs.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 06:49 PM |
#140 |
| -
I do grasp it. And the negative, griping people who don't compete for those jobs aren't going to |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:24 PM |
#147 |
| -
sadly, I don't think your grasping it at all |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 08:32 PM |
#150 |
| -
Think what you like, but do stop twisting both my words and meanings. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 08:54 PM |
#151 |
| -
Mr Micawber, is that you? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:05 PM |
#156 |
| -
Optimists live longer. I have no interest in dying prematurely. |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:19 PM |
#161 |
| -
Is it cause or is it effect though? |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 09:28 PM |
#165 |
| -
Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT |
MADem |
Jun-13-09 09:50 PM |
#168 |
| -
I'll just point out that I haven't revealed my personal philosophy at all in this thread.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-14-09 10:48 AM |
#176 |
| -
You called me McCawber. Thus, my discussion of optimism. |
MADem |
Jun-14-09 12:15 PM |
#179 |
| -
Agreed when times are tough the rules will change |
tech3149 |
Jun-13-09 12:25 PM |
#25 |
| -
The technology was simpler even 20 years ago. Today, products are unfixable or difficult to fix. |
AdHocSolver |
Jun-13-09 05:12 PM |
#107 |
| -
Here are some things my grandmother told me |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-13-09 01:24 PM |
#47 |
| -
People gave a shit about each other back then... today it's everyone for themselves. |
bobbolink |
Jun-13-09 02:30 PM |
#59 |
| -
Good point. We've shed the concept of community responsibility rather gradually |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:39 PM |
#64 |
| -
On the positive side... |
Silent3 |
Jun-13-09 02:32 PM |
#61 |
| -
My guess: worse now. THE SPECIALIZATION TRAP |
texanshatingbush |
Jun-13-09 02:41 PM |
#66 |
| -
wow. that's exactly what I was referring to |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:45 PM |
#68 |
| -
As Heinlein once said.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-13-09 03:00 PM |
#76 |
| -
I love that phrase. It is true. A man should not depend on a single trade nt |
conspirator |
Jun-13-09 07:43 PM |
#142 |
| -
One possible aid to the problem I've suggested in the past is to farm |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 02:42 PM |
#67 |
| -
Possibly, but that's not a good environment for plants |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-13-09 02:49 PM |
#70 |
| -
Valid point, but easily enough accomodated |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 03:04 PM |
#81 |
| -
you're right |
shanti |
Jun-13-09 04:15 PM |
#97 |
| -
*If* we enter a new depression, I seriously doubt it will be as bad as the Great Depression. |
That Is Quite Enough |
Jun-13-09 06:08 PM |
#130 |
| -
ok, but what would prevent something worse from happening? |
Lerkfish |
Jun-13-09 06:24 PM |
#137 |
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How would it NOT get distributed? |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-14-09 12:11 AM |
#173 |
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ok. if the virtual collapse of the great depression were overlaid on the current structure |
Lerkfish |
Jun-14-09 05:25 AM |
#175 |
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What does that have to do with distribution? |
ContinentalOp |
Jun-14-09 11:44 AM |
#178 |
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