You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #28: I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 12:41 PM by NickB79
And I also know that despite the accumulated knowledge of generations of farmers and gardeners, my family had years where they did everything right and still had disastrous crop yields, or my grandmother lost half her garden to disease, insects, or varmints. In those situations, there was always the possibility of a better yield next year. In a survival situation, though, you die.

Right now I work in a community garden in the Twin Cities. I have had to educate an amazingly naive populace when it comes to gardening, answering questions that I would have laughed at as a 5-yr old. Can you grow a tomato from saved seed? What's the good of compost? Aren't earthworms bad for plants? :eyes:

And while even the most green new gardeners like the ones your cousin teach can eventually grow a few tomatoes or potatoes, that is nowhere near the amount needed to sustain a person, much less a family. How many tons of food does a family of 5 go through in a year? Does your cousin have each of those children working their own half-acres of land with nothing more than shovels and hoes in the blistering sun, carrying buckets of water for hours on end? How will they preserve that food for use during the winter months? If you make a mistake while canning, you can die of botulism poisoning. Do they understand that you need to grow a wide variety of vegetables that compliment each other, such as legumes for proteins to compliment the starches of potatoes? If you don't eat the right mixture of vegetables and fruits, you suffer from malnutrition. Do they understand how to maintain soil fertility through composting, green manures, fallow periods, and crop rotations?

Yes, on one hand I can see why you think my example was hyperbole. But both heart surgery and gardening in a survival situation are matters of life and death. The smallest mistakes can mean disaster, and you don't get a second chance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Depression: better now or back in the 1930s? Which would have the higher survival rate? Lerkfish  Jun-13-09 09:57 AM   #0 
  - There are a lot of myths about the Great Depression, and stuff left out.  imdjh   Jun-13-09 10:14 AM   #1 
  - Worse today...for sure...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 10:15 AM   #2 
  - I think it will be a disaster  Mojorabbit   Jun-13-09 10:15 AM   #3 
  - There is no comparing then to now. People killed themselves in droves.  MADem   Jun-13-09 10:17 AM   #4 
  - The point of the OP though is that if it comes to the same point again..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 10:30 AM   #6 
  - No, we won't, because we won't abandon entitlement programs.  MADem   Jun-13-09 10:55 AM   #8 
  - California is already talking about ending entitlements..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 11:17 AM   #11 
  - Your perfect won't be the enemy of the good. "Less serious" gardeners,  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:49 AM   #19 
     - But will they figure it out before they starve?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:10 PM   #22 
     - Of course they will. Jesus, people who couldn't read and write manage to figure this stuff out.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:21 PM   #55 
        - Crop failures happen..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:39 PM   #65 
           - They're not the NORM, though. You're trying to make the unlikely likely.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:52 PM   #72 
              - In a survival situation..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:01 PM   #78 
                 - yup, and only more so with high specialization.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:03 PM   #80 
                 - Unless you move to Africa, you're not going to find yourself in that sort of situation.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:16 PM   #85 
     - In a garbage can???  Jack Sprat   Jun-13-09 10:03 PM   #169 
        - No, you need dirt. Really, though--it's easy. Takes up no space, too!  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:27 PM   #170 
           - That really is amazing.  Jack Sprat   Jun-14-09 12:12 AM   #174 
  - And I can google "How to perform open-heart surgery" in a few seconds as well  NickB79   Jun-13-09 11:21 AM   #12 
  - If you compare planting potatoes to open heart surgery, and feel they involve the same level of  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:34 AM   #13 
     - I don't need "the YouTube". I grew up on a farm. I know how to grow food  NickB79   Jun-13-09 12:35 PM   #28 
        - Good post.. Thank you. n/t  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:43 PM   #31 
        - Your last sentence says it all  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:47 PM   #34 
        - If "disaster" is the norm, then you are in the wrong line of work.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:15 PM   #84 
           - During the Great Depression, millions lived almost entirely off what they could grow themselves  NickB79   Jun-13-09 04:39 PM   #103 
           - We did not have a distribution system back then like we do today. That's just not true.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:53 PM   #105 
              - you're actually making some of my arguments in this post that you refuted before  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:03 PM   #128 
                 - Well, whatever gets you through the night, I guess!  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:11 PM   #132 
           - My grand parents lived in Western Oklamahoma during the 30s.  Thothmes   Jun-13-09 07:09 PM   #141 
              - The Dust Bowl--a lot like Flint Michigan, today. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:55 PM   #152 
  - I wanted to respond to your post to counter your arguments  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:36 PM   #29 
  - I guess calling people asshats makes you feel special. How sad for you.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:28 PM   #87 
  - California is abandoning entitlements.  girl gone mad   Jun-13-09 07:59 PM   #143 
  - that's part of my point, yes. The other part is that we are structurally dependent on distribution  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:43 AM   #14 
     - I agree..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:15 PM   #24 
        - Interesting book  Yupster   Jun-13-09 12:31 PM   #26 
           - If electricity no longer works we die instantly anyway..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:45 PM   #32 
  - Your incite leads to one question: Will our safety net be strong enough  jwirr   Jun-13-09 10:59 AM   #9 
  - Like I said--you need more money, you print it. You create a false economy.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:44 AM   #16 
  - Well, we'll have to disagree. The reason many homeless still eat is current distribution  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:47 AM   #18 
  - Who is going to "eliminate that structure"--really. Why would they?  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:57 AM   #20 
     - All it would take would be a severe enough curtailment of oil..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:12 PM   #23 
     - You'd see trains come back in a big way. All those old right of ways? They'd be  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:46 PM   #33 
        - And how many years will that take to implement?  NickB79   Jun-13-09 01:03 PM   #39 
        - Oh fachrissake. It takes an hour to uncap an 'unprofitable" well and  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:52 PM   #50 
           - I honestly don't think you're really listening to or attempting to understand  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:28 PM   #58 
              - I don't have patience for this viewpoint that people are going to sit around doing nothing  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:35 PM   #88 
                 - You were the one saying people could learn things from "the Youtube"..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:59 PM   #93 
                    - Now you're making stuff up.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:27 PM   #101 
        - In terms of ton-miles per gallon I strongly suspect an 18 wheeler is more efficient  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 01:14 PM   #44 
           - The piaggio goes to the train, where the freight is offloaded. Or the large truck driver takes  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:00 PM   #51 
              - But they do not exist now..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:34 PM   #62 
                 - You could do the same thing with a less costly riceburner. The brand is beside the point.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:02 PM   #94 
                    - I'm not a mind reader..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 04:16 PM   #98 
                       - I didn't realize you were quite so concrete. nt  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:28 PM   #102 
     - I fail to see how anything I've discussed is "asinine".  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:04 PM   #40 
        - Why are you taking this so personally? I said NOTHING insulting about you. Not a word.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:13 PM   #96 
           - In post #90 you called him ignorant..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 04:19 PM   #99 
              - I did not. You have a problem with a word definition, I see  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:39 PM   #104 
                 - Your words, verbatim.  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:32 PM   #110 
                    - Yes, so?  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:34 PM   #113 
                       - We aren't discussing just one topic..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:41 PM   #118 
                          - You've got eyes, you can read the thread again.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:54 PM   #122 
                             - I'm interested in *you* opinion of which topic it was that the poster could not discuss..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 06:46 PM   #139 
                                - I have plainly articulated my views already in this thread. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:21 PM   #146 
                                   - Sidestep the question, eh?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 08:58 PM   #153 
                                      - I have already answered your question in this thread. I am not sidestepping.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:03 PM   #155 
                                         - This is a very long thread now, I'm not going to reread the entire damn thing..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:06 PM   #157 
                                            - Well, toddle up around post ninety, that might help you sort it out. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:16 PM   #160 
                                            - I already quoted part of post 90 back to you  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:27 PM   #164 
                                            - Read the whole post. You should be able to grasp context when you do that. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:50 PM   #167 
                                            - You could have easily answered my question by now..  Fumesucker   Jun-14-09 10:50 AM   #177 
                                            - One more time. Read the post. The answer isn't "in" the post, the answer IS the post.  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:16 PM   #180 
  - Your arguments don't compute.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 04:04 PM   #95 
     - Yes, they do compute. And calling people "delusional" isn't the way to make your point.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:14 PM   #108 
     - Calling people "ignorant" and "immature" is not the way to make a point either.. n/t  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:33 PM   #112 
     - I didn't do that, though. Even though you keep trying to twist my words, I refute your assertion.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:37 PM   #115 
     - If Americans were as smart as you think, we would NOT be in this predicament.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 06:24 PM   #136 
        - thanks for your rational post  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:25 PM   #138 
        - We were led by a thief who stole from us. Now we need to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off,  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:13 PM   #158 
           - We were led by a thief because we were stupid enough to elect him..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:24 PM   #162 
              - We didn't elect him. We elected a guy named GORE. The Supremes screwed us.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:49 PM   #166 
     - interesting thoughts in this thread  DeschutesRiver   Jun-13-09 09:24 PM   #163 
  - I think clearly the answer, is: not all of us.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:45 AM   #17 
  - I appreciate that history...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 12:48 PM   #35 
     - Or, in my case, I was denied unemployment benefits outright  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:06 PM   #41 
     - I have a relative who quit in anger from a job--big mistake. You can only collect if you are fired.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:32 PM   #111 
        - I understand how it works. I'm making the point that the safety net has holes  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:56 PM   #123 
           - I beg your pardon? I didn't say anything about YOU quitting in anger.  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:02 PM   #127 
              - wow. such projection.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:04 PM   #129 
                 - Yes, you are projecting. I talked about my relative, in a declarative sentence,  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:13 PM   #133 
                    - I'll give you that point  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:22 PM   #135 
                       - I have not said a single "scathing" thing about you. Your deliberate misrepresentation of what  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:03 PM   #144 
                          - LOL!  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:25 PM   #148 
                             - No, they won't, but keep saying that if it gets you through the night. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:14 PM   #159 
     - I watch the unemployment rate closely--I do think it is an indicator.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:29 PM   #109 
  - A depression would be GREAT right now!  Swamp Rat   Jun-13-09 10:23 AM   #5 
  - It would be "great" because a lot of people might lose their ego trips.  bobbolink   Jun-13-09 03:08 PM   #83 
  - For many, it will be a lot tougher  tech3149   Jun-13-09 10:47 AM   #7 
  - Those Homeowner restrictions will go out the window if times get tough enough.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:10 AM   #10 
     - perhaps, but how much will it take to tip the scale? and what will people eat in the meantime?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 11:44 AM   #15 
     - They'll disobey the HOA, and their NEIGHBORS will tell the HOA to STFU.  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:02 PM   #21 
        - You're the sole voice of reason on this thread.  ContinentalOp   Jun-13-09 12:32 PM   #27 
           - I'm anything but a gardner..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 12:40 PM   #30 
           - uh... so you're saying you just have some small undefinable hunch that things would be catastrophic  ContinentalOp   Jun-13-09 12:54 PM   #37 
              - similar to saying existing safey nets would survive a depression without saying why or how  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:08 PM   #42 
              - Print more money.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:03 PM   #52 
                 - you mean like preWWII germany?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:12 PM   #53 
                    - I didn't say it was a solution. It is an answer to a flaky postulation, that won't come to pass.  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:24 PM   #56 
                       - I edited the post, but I will reiterate that your suggestion is to further devalue devalued currency  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:26 PM   #57 
                          - In Weimar Germany, if you left a wheelbarrow full of bank notes  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:50 PM   #71 
                          - The Germans would have done well to subsidize staples, like other governments have done in the past.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:40 PM   #117 
                          - I am responding to your idea that the sky is falling. I am only postulating solutions to  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:01 PM   #77 
                             - heres the thing: you're highly dismissive of the posts of others in this thread, but  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:02 PM   #79 
                             - I'm not "predicting" anything at all..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:05 PM   #82 
                                - The OP wanted to know if it was worse back then than now. That answer is obvious.  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:24 PM   #86 
                                   - I read it somewhat differently..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:50 PM   #91 
                                   - I think the answer is clear that Americans are more able, not less so, to cope.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:58 PM   #106 
                                   - People are far more specialized now than they were around the time of the Depression..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:39 PM   #116 
                                      - They are. That could be good, or bad, depending on what they end up doing if they  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:44 PM   #119 
                                      - Changing careers implies that there will be other careers to change to... which, in a depression  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:00 PM   #126 
                                      - Someone who is a painter, who has built their own home, can do a lot  MADem   Jun-13-09 06:09 PM   #131 
                                      - Are you even following economic news lately?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:20 PM   #134 
                                      - I did not suggest that "we all" do anything of the sort.  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:20 PM   #145 
                                      - the odd thing is, I AM discussing this topic...its MY topic  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:27 PM   #149 
                                      - You don't want to talk about your OWN original thesis, though, and you're getting mad at me because  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:00 PM   #154 
                                   - yes, that is a proper reading of my OP  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:57 PM   #124 
                                   - you completely (and perhaps intentionally) misread my OP  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 05:51 PM   #120 
                                      - I am not trashing you, personally or otherwise, and I don't understand why you are making those  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:58 PM   #125 
              - Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 01:16 PM   #45 
           - Sadly, too many people believe that the paradigm is to sit idly by, and let everything go to hell.  MADem   Jun-13-09 12:49 PM   #36 
              - I have been preparing our family for tough times...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 01:01 PM   #38 
              - I wouldn't be terrified if I were you. What good does that do you?  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:27 PM   #48 
                 - Well, maybe terrified was too strong a word...  CoffeeCat   Jun-13-09 02:38 PM   #63 
                    - I think concern is quite sensible. We've all got to keep our wits about us, and  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:05 AM   #172 
              - ironically, aren't you suggesting exactly that?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:10 PM   #43 
                 - No, I'm not. There's fluff, and there's necessity. A lot of people confuse the two.  MADem   Jun-13-09 01:23 PM   #46 
                    - nevermind  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 01:35 PM   #49 
                    - There's a surprising number of "hands on" type jobs lost just in that sentence..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:17 PM   #54 
                       - Some people fail to see the economy as in interrelated organism.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:31 PM   #60 
                       - Those jobs aren't lost, they're just working less. And maybe those Union Wages might have to take a  MADem   Jun-13-09 02:47 PM   #69 
                          - ah, so the Unions are evil argument raises its ugly head.  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:54 PM   #73 
                          - Why do you keep doing this? I did not say that at all.  MADem   Jun-13-09 11:59 PM   #171 
                          - I mentioned that he designed his own home with a pencil on a blank sheet of paper  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 02:55 PM   #74 
                             - let's review the superior strategy of our friend here...  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:59 PM   #75 
                             - OK Lerkfish, you just are showing your ignorance and inability to discuss  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:49 PM   #90 
                             - I think he'd be booked months in advance. If he wanted to rip off the gubmint,  MADem   Jun-13-09 03:42 PM   #89 
                                - It's not as easy as you might think..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:52 PM   #92 
                                   - Well, the guy who is my handyman is going to repair my porch this summer.  MADem   Jun-13-09 04:23 PM   #100 
                                      - You hand wave away every objection to your rose colored glasses view of the world..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 05:35 PM   #114 
                                         - People in recent years have been highly "job mobile." It's the new paradigm.  MADem   Jun-13-09 05:52 PM   #121 
                                            - There are a diminishing number of jobs..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 06:49 PM   #140 
                                               - I do grasp it. And the negative, griping people who don't compete for those jobs aren't going to  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:24 PM   #147 
                                                  - sadly, I don't think your grasping it at all  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 08:32 PM   #150 
                                                  - Think what you like, but do stop twisting both my words and meanings.  MADem   Jun-13-09 08:54 PM   #151 
                                                  - Mr Micawber, is that you?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:05 PM   #156 
                                                  - Optimists live longer. I have no interest in dying prematurely.  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:19 PM   #161 
                                                  - Is it cause or is it effect though?  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 09:28 PM   #165 
                                                  - Hard to say. Optimists live longer. That works for me. NT  MADem   Jun-13-09 09:50 PM   #168 
                                                  - I'll just point out that I haven't revealed my personal philosophy at all in this thread..  Fumesucker   Jun-14-09 10:48 AM   #176 
                                                  - You called me McCawber. Thus, my discussion of optimism.  MADem   Jun-14-09 12:15 PM   #179 
     - Agreed when times are tough the rules will change  tech3149   Jun-13-09 12:25 PM   #25 
     - The technology was simpler even 20 years ago. Today, products are unfixable or difficult to fix.  AdHocSolver   Jun-13-09 05:12 PM   #107 
  - Here are some things my grandmother told me  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-13-09 01:24 PM   #47 
  - People gave a shit about each other back then... today it's everyone for themselves.  bobbolink   Jun-13-09 02:30 PM   #59 
  - Good point. We've shed the concept of community responsibility rather gradually  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:39 PM   #64 
  - On the positive side...  Silent3   Jun-13-09 02:32 PM   #61 
  - My guess: worse now. THE SPECIALIZATION TRAP  texanshatingbush   Jun-13-09 02:41 PM   #66 
  - wow. that's exactly what I was referring to  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:45 PM   #68 
  - As Heinlein once said..  Fumesucker   Jun-13-09 03:00 PM   #76 
     - I love that phrase. It is true. A man should not depend on a single trade nt  conspirator   Jun-13-09 07:43 PM   #142 
  - One possible aid to the problem I've suggested in the past is to farm  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 02:42 PM   #67 
  - Possibly, but that's not a good environment for plants  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-13-09 02:49 PM   #70 
     - Valid point, but easily enough accomodated  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 03:04 PM   #81 
  - you're right  shanti   Jun-13-09 04:15 PM   #97 
  - *If* we enter a new depression, I seriously doubt it will be as bad as the Great Depression.  That Is Quite Enough   Jun-13-09 06:08 PM   #130 
     - ok, but what would prevent something worse from happening?  Lerkfish   Jun-13-09 06:24 PM   #137 
        - How would it NOT get distributed?  ContinentalOp   Jun-14-09 12:11 AM   #173 
           - ok. if the virtual collapse of the great depression were overlaid on the current structure  Lerkfish   Jun-14-09 05:25 AM   #175 
              - What does that have to do with distribution?  ContinentalOp   Jun-14-09 11:44 AM   #178 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC