| 175. If I remember right, there are pieces of what you have listed already under |
|
consideration in all of the back and forth work on the health care legislation.
I like your plan best!
But we're not going to get everything.
Let's fight like hell to get the best we can!
|
| -Good god! So if you don't BUY health insurance, you get FINED!!??? WTF!!!??? |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 06:36 PM |
#0 |
 -
Oh, don't worry, the fines will be on a sliding scale, based on your ability to pay. |
billyoc |
Jun-08-09 06:38 PM |
#1 |
 -
Actually, if you read Kennedy's draft bill they will be, n/t |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 10:17 PM |
#85 |
 -
Right. And that sliding scale knows how much of that income is 'disposable' |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 10:01 AM |
#135 |
| -
whereas in other countries there is nationalized care, not nationalized insurance |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jun-08-09 11:39 PM |
#98 |
| -
But in other countries the people pay TAXES to support their health care so |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 08:00 AM |
#123 |
| -
I have no problem paying extra taxes |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-09 08:26 AM |
#126 |
| -
I agree with you. But I got the impression with most, not all, posters on this thread |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 08:33 AM |
#130 |
| -
They don't get it for free, but they pay per capita on average just |
Fool Count |
Jun-09-09 09:25 AM |
#132 |
| -
welcome to DU! |
renate |
Jun-09-09 09:27 AM |
#133 |
| -
"Nobody says that health care can come for free." |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 09:49 AM |
#134 |
| -
They don't want free health care, they want someone rich to pay for them. |
dkf |
Jun-09-09 11:12 AM |
#152 |
| -
Classic straw man. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-09-09 11:14 AM |
#153 |
| -
Will my jail sentence be lowered on scale based on how claustrophobic I am? |
shadowknows69 |
Jun-09-09 06:11 AM |
#108 |
| -
maybe in jail you could be treated for that. |
Iris |
Jun-09-09 12:44 PM |
#169 |
| -
Don't worry, debtors' prison is up to 14% nicer than regular prison |
spoony |
Jun-09-09 03:03 PM |
#182 |
| -
Yay, double fucking plus good. |
shadowknows69 |
Jun-09-09 10:57 PM |
#194 |
| -
it's CHANGE, baby!! |
Skittles |
Jun-08-09 06:39 PM |
#2 |
| -
misinformation FAIL |
Teaser |
Jun-08-09 06:40 PM |
#6 |
| -
She will KICK YOUR ASS. |
Bluebear |
Jun-08-09 06:43 PM |
#12 |
| -
sucking insurance ass is not misinformation |
Skittles |
Jun-08-09 07:21 PM |
#37 |
| -
Care to adumbrate something really pointless, like |
Deja Q |
Jun-09-09 12:08 PM |
#161 |
| -
Yes We Can!!! |
Old Hob |
Jun-08-09 11:21 PM |
#94 |
| -
Can't afford insurance, won't be able to afford fine |
AnOhioan |
Jun-08-09 06:39 PM |
#3 |
| -
So you go to jail and get medical care there I guess. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 06:39 PM |
#4 |
| -
And 3 squares a day...at this rate, not a bad option. |
AnOhioan |
Jun-08-09 06:40 PM |
#8 |
| -
Nope. Read this Prison blues: States slimming down inmate meals ( no breakfast for ex.) |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-08-09 06:50 PM |
#19 |
| -
If you want a nicer jail experience, |
elehhhhna |
Jun-09-09 05:09 PM |
#185 |
| -
lol! Recent article (5/28) Netherlands Prisons Closing For Lack Of Criminals. |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-10-09 08:29 AM |
#196 |
| -
And there we are. Can't pay the fine, go to jail, and we have people imprisoned for poverty. |
Greyhound |
Jun-08-09 07:12 PM |
#30 |
| -
We don't need to jail them. Just execute them and decrease the surplus population. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 07:51 PM |
#44 |
| -
More cheap prison labor! |
SammyWinstonJack |
Jun-09-09 10:06 AM |
#138 |
| -
or Soylent Green. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 10:59 PM |
#195 |
| -
But if the turnip hits you hard enough, it can get blood from you. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 07:52 PM |
#45 |
| -
Don't give them any ideas. I can see it now, the latest in crowd control, |
Greyhound |
Jun-08-09 10:15 PM |
#83 |
| -
What I heard from MA was that the fine was often cheaper than insurance so people paid the fine |
JVS |
Jun-09-09 12:36 PM |
#166 |
| -
Sounds like the Massachusetts program. |
TheCowsCameHome |
Jun-08-09 06:40 PM |
#5 |
| -
I was told, but do not have sources yet, that the Mass progam has been a big failure |
Political Heretic |
Jun-08-09 10:00 PM |
#70 |
| -
The Mass system |
ProudDad |
Jun-09-09 12:29 AM |
#100 |
| -
..and the fines for haVING NO AUTO INSURANCE? How's that working out? LOL |
elehhhhna |
Jun-09-09 05:11 PM |
#186 |
| -
It is at least some better than the Mass plan. |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 10:21 PM |
#89 |
| -
That would be Mitt Romney's pet Massachusetts program? |
KamaAina |
Jun-09-09 08:30 AM |
#128 |
| -
Yes, that very one. |
TheCowsCameHome |
Jun-09-09 12:51 PM |
#170 |
| -
I was afraid of this. |
Chemisse |
Jun-08-09 06:40 PM |
#7 |
| -
Yeah, both Clinton and Edwards nt |
Adelante |
Jun-09-09 07:09 AM |
#112 |
| -
None of the "allowed" "reform" plans are worth a damn |
DJ13 |
Jun-08-09 06:41 PM |
#9 |
| -
Plus they got theirs w/ Medicare part D. They need to |
elehhhhna |
Jun-09-09 05:16 PM |
#187 |
| -
Buy health insurance? Okay how poor can you be before the government |
jwirr |
Jun-08-09 06:41 PM |
#10 |
| -
$16,500 for an individual; $33,000 for a family of four |
sandnsea |
Jun-08-09 07:04 PM |
#24 |
| -
If this is what we are forced to take those figures should be much higher. |
jwirr |
Jun-08-09 07:09 PM |
#26 |
| -
I wish. And medicare isn't income based |
sandnsea |
Jun-08-09 07:14 PM |
#33 |
| -
I didn't support Hillary, and this is one of the reasons |
Yo_Mama |
Jun-08-09 07:23 PM |
#38 |
| -
This is such bullshit. Mandates like this never accurately get "affordable" right. |
Political Heretic |
Jun-08-09 10:01 PM |
#71 |
| -
Great. And $33,000 in Iowa is a WHOLE LOT MORE money than $33k in San Francisco |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 10:04 AM |
#136 |
| -
They make those adjustments with food stamps etc. |
sandnsea |
Jun-09-09 12:12 PM |
#163 |
| -
Will they make adjustments for people with large debt, housing costs |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 02:42 PM |
#177 |
| -
Will they for single payer? |
sandnsea |
Jun-09-09 02:45 PM |
#178 |
| -
I get your point - it has to payed for somehow |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 02:52 PM |
#180 |
| -
If they're going to implement a confiscatory policy, |
elehhhhna |
Jun-09-09 05:30 PM |
#188 |
| -
I agree with you completely. |
Matariki |
Jun-09-09 05:54 PM |
#191 |
| -
If they're going to implement a confiscatory policy, |
elehhhhna |
Jun-09-09 05:30 PM |
#189 |
| -
$16,500 for an individual? |
Raineyb |
Jun-09-09 10:58 AM |
#145 |
| -
lol, it's twice what it is now |
sandnsea |
Jun-09-09 12:10 PM |
#162 |
| -
In the Kennedy plan |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 10:23 PM |
#90 |
| -
Wow |
bluestateguy |
Jun-08-09 06:41 PM |
#11 |
| -
Oh yeah. I was so upset I forgot to add a link. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 06:54 PM |
#20 |
| -
Every day the insult to working and sick people gets worse and worse. n/t |
Cleita |
Jun-08-09 06:43 PM |
#13 |
| -
I believe you so far but please provide sources |
JonLP24 |
Jun-08-09 06:46 PM |
#14 |
| -
Here you go. I forgot because I was upset. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 06:55 PM |
#21 |
| -
Can't afford mandated car insurance? Walk! Can't afford mandated health insurance? DIE! |
kenny blankenship |
Jun-08-09 06:49 PM |
#15 |
| -
Lol - what do people who don't work have for insurance now? |
HughMoran |
Jun-08-09 07:12 PM |
#31 |
| -
Duh. But they aren't criminalized for being indigent. |
kenny blankenship |
Jun-08-09 07:17 PM |
#36 |
| -
Look, I didn't start this |
HughMoran |
Jun-08-09 07:38 PM |
#42 |
| -
Well, do you pay taxes? If not, to whom do you complain? |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 08:09 AM |
#124 |
| -
Always difficult to sell economics of helping people, worse now in bad times. |
MarjorieG |
Jun-08-09 06:50 PM |
#16 |
| -
All we have to do is to spend most of our current health care dollars on CARE |
eridani |
Jun-08-09 07:57 PM |
#49 |
| -
that's what bad times are for. to convince you the safety net is too expensive. |
Hannah Bell |
Jun-09-09 06:08 AM |
#107 |
| -
This sounds like bullshit that is put out there in the quest to not give us affortable healthcare |
madokie |
Jun-08-09 06:50 PM |
#17 |
| -
Gotta keep fattening up those insurance companies |
Individualist |
Jun-08-09 06:50 PM |
#18 |
| -
And keep the "contributions" (aka bribes) flowing into those campaigns (eom) |
dflprincess |
Jun-08-09 09:41 PM |
#64 |
| -
I will gladly buy health insurance |
handmade34 |
Jun-08-09 06:58 PM |
#22 |
| -
Exactly. |
diamidue |
Jun-08-09 08:28 PM |
#52 |
| -
You are dreaming of times when government actually had fiscal responsibility |
nolabels |
Jun-08-09 10:24 PM |
#91 |
| -
I support it fully... |
kirby |
Jun-08-09 06:59 PM |
#23 |
| -
Finally... |
sendero |
Jun-08-09 08:46 PM |
#58 |
| -
If it's a tax then everyone needs to pay a flat amount and receive equivilent service. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:03 PM |
#73 |
| -
Well... |
sendero |
Jun-09-09 06:30 AM |
#109 |
| -
Including Congresscritters! As you stated, everyone needs to pay a flat amount |
SammyWinstonJack |
Jun-09-09 10:16 AM |
#141 |
| -
Here's the rub. We're paying for profit middle men. |
mmonk |
Jun-08-09 10:03 PM |
#72 |
| -
I don't support it fully - but am willing to live with it |
Ms. Toad |
Jun-08-09 10:27 PM |
#92 |
| -
But but that sounds like ...socialism!!!!!!!!!!!! |
madmom |
Jun-09-09 10:15 AM |
#140 |
| -
Thank Hillary, Krugman, Edwards, et al |
sandnsea |
Jun-08-09 07:05 PM |
#25 |
| -
Because, God knows, |
dflprincess |
Jun-08-09 09:54 PM |
#68 |
| -
. |
SammyWinstonJack |
Jun-09-09 10:17 AM |
#142 |
| -
Ewards also pushed for a full public plan availalbe to anyone who wanted it |
Political Heretic |
Jun-08-09 10:03 PM |
#74 |
| -
Get a grip. What does "universal" mean to you? |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jun-08-09 07:09 PM |
#27 |
| -
And don't forget about those Cadillac driving welfare queens and their relatives, |
Greyhound |
Jun-08-09 07:15 PM |
#34 |
| -
It's The Healthcare CEO Pocket Lining Act of 2009 |
WeDidIt |
Jun-08-09 07:11 PM |
#28 |
| -
An outrage! It should be paid by taxes, which are, after all, optional. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jun-08-09 07:12 PM |
#29 |
| -
Heh |
HughMoran |
Jun-08-09 07:13 PM |
#32 |
| -
If a "health care" tax was based on taxable income off the 1040 form |
dflprincess |
Jun-08-09 09:45 PM |
#65 |
| -
Thats just plan evil..nt |
and-justice-for-all |
Jun-08-09 07:15 PM |
#35 |
| -
The only way healthcare can work for everyone is if eveyone is invested in the system |
Maru Kitteh |
Jun-08-09 07:24 PM |
#39 |
| -
But if it's going to be mandatory for everyone to be invested in the system |
Telly Savalas |
Jun-08-09 07:54 PM |
#47 |
| -
But I make a profit of three and a quarter cents |
bat country |
Jun-09-09 02:16 PM |
#174 |
| -
Wow, I was worried there for a second. |
Tim01 |
Jun-08-09 07:24 PM |
#40 |
| -
Okay, so we've solved the "not everyone has insurance" problem. |
kcass1954 |
Jun-08-09 07:38 PM |
#41 |
| -
That's true. Insurance companies often cancel the policy if the bills are too high. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 07:50 PM |
#43 |
| -
This was a RW talking point during the election. It was a misrepresentation then |
FSogol |
Jun-08-09 07:54 PM |
#46 |
| -
This is going to make a lot of people angry..people currently scraping by |
lostnfound |
Jun-08-09 07:54 PM |
#48 |
| -
Government forcing people to spend money? |
SnoopDog |
Jun-08-09 08:07 PM |
#50 |
| -
And it's not like requiring auto insurance. Driving an auto is a privilege, not a right. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:05 PM |
#75 |
| -
Your taxes force you to "buy" armed forces to protect the country, public schools, police |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 08:42 AM |
#131 |
| -
No - your analogy in not valid... |
SnoopDog |
Jun-09-09 02:37 PM |
#176 |
| -
As a Medicare recipient I was "ordered" to pay $94 (deducted from my monthly SS check) |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 02:52 PM |
#179 |
| -
Yeah. You can't afford health insurance but you sure as hell |
Fire1 |
Jun-08-09 08:08 PM |
#51 |
| -
THIS is why I was never big on the whole "health care reform" nonsense. |
InvisibleTouch |
Jun-08-09 08:35 PM |
#53 |
| -
You take your chances, but don't show up at the emergency room. |
olegramps |
Jun-09-09 07:08 AM |
#111 |
| -
You don't know me nearly well enough to make that assertion. |
InvisibleTouch |
Jun-09-09 07:42 PM |
#193 |
| -
What do you expect from full coverage? Everybody plays so everybody pays. |
stray cat |
Jun-08-09 08:36 PM |
#54 |
| -
"Waivers would be available for those who could not cover the cost of insurance." |
BlooInBloo |
Jun-08-09 08:39 PM |
#55 |
| -
Yet they don't tell us who gets to decide you can't afford it |
dflprincess |
Jun-08-09 09:47 PM |
#66 |
| -
Excuse me... |
femrap |
Jun-08-09 08:39 PM |
#56 |
| -
It's what John Edwards was saying |
GreenArrow |
Jun-08-09 09:22 PM |
#63 |
| -
Democrats shooting themselves in the foot AGAIN! |
Kansas Wyatt |
Jun-08-09 08:46 PM |
#57 |
| -
It's a tax, no? |
donco6 |
Jun-08-09 08:48 PM |
#59 |
| -
Sounds like a tax to me. |
Swede |
Jun-08-09 08:51 PM |
#61 |
| -
Got me. |
donco6 |
Jun-08-09 09:16 PM |
#62 |
| -
No. A tax would insure equivilent coverage for all. Companies just cover what the want. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:07 PM |
#77 |
| -
Taxes are paid to the government.. |
Fumesucker |
Jun-08-09 11:22 PM |
#95 |
| -
I see. |
donco6 |
Jun-08-09 11:27 PM |
#96 |
| -
No, what is being described is not a tax. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-09-09 11:24 AM |
#155 |
| -
So we'll be forced to subsidize insurance company profits? |
jtrockville |
Jun-08-09 08:50 PM |
#60 |
| -
That's where the reform comes in |
dflprincess |
Jun-08-09 09:49 PM |
#67 |
| -
Actually that part isn't true |
sandnsea |
Jun-08-09 11:16 PM |
#93 |
| -
Thank you for your voice of sanity in this thread. |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 08:14 AM |
#125 |
| -
People are not whining about having to pay |
dflprincess |
Jun-09-09 12:03 PM |
#160 |
| -
Your analysis is very good and makes sense. I wasn't talking about you. |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 01:05 PM |
#171 |
| -
People who can't afford to pay will have waivers - this is ALWAYS SUCH BULLSHIT |
Political Heretic |
Jun-08-09 09:59 PM |
#69 |
| -
Sure why not!? You have to have insurance for your car now |
Rex |
Jun-08-09 10:06 PM |
#76 |
| -
No. A driving a car is a privilege. You don't have to do it. Medical care is not a privilege. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:09 PM |
#78 |
| -
Not really a privilege if you have to get to work with a car. |
Rex |
Jun-08-09 10:10 PM |
#81 |
| -
It is, so you can lose your license as a punishment. The gov can't stop med care to punish. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:15 PM |
#82 |
| -
What is to stop them from taking away your license if you have no |
Rex |
Jun-08-09 10:17 PM |
#88 |
| -
For a lot of people, driving to work is a necessity, simply because car companies junked the trolley |
Selatius |
Jun-09-09 12:40 AM |
#103 |
| -
Entirely too many Americans are skipping out on their patriotic duty |
Fumesucker |
Jun-08-09 10:10 PM |
#79 |
| -
That's the spirit! That's the Ameriken way! Yeah! |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:16 PM |
#84 |
| -
And I trust you more than the Democrats why? |
gulliver |
Jun-08-09 10:10 PM |
#80 |
| -
You trust me? Why ... I'm flattered. |
Kablooie |
Jun-08-09 10:17 PM |
#86 |
| -
Given the choice between trusting a random stranger and an elected Democratic politician? |
kenny blankenship |
Jun-09-09 11:03 AM |
#147 |
| -
You've got a point there. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 11:04 AM |
#148 |
| -
Because the OP has never sold you down the river... |
spoony |
Jun-09-09 03:05 PM |
#183 |
| -
Sounds like even more incentive to lie about income on your returns |
Rex_Goodheart |
Jun-08-09 10:17 PM |
#87 |
| -
Wow- the worst of all possible plans. Amazing. |
Marr |
Jun-08-09 11:35 PM |
#97 |
| -
I don't like it |
ProudDad |
Jun-09-09 12:27 AM |
#99 |
| -
Ha ha if this passes think I'll lose my job? |
rachelle-laughlin |
Jun-09-09 06:08 AM |
#106 |
| -
It's not about your job, regardless of what you do. |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jun-09-09 07:43 AM |
#119 |
| -
You will just have to raise your prices to match the new govt. regulated standards. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 11:07 AM |
#149 |
| -
Welcome to DU! |
Strong Atheist |
Jun-09-09 01:50 PM |
#173 |
| -
11. CEOs compensation limited to 250,000. |
olegramps |
Jun-09-09 07:18 AM |
#114 |
| -
If I remember right, there are pieces of what you have listed already under |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 02:22 PM |
#175 |
| -
What a clusterfuck. Hopefully this plan will fail to pass. It's starting to make the status quo... |
JVS |
Jun-09-09 12:32 AM |
#101 |
| -
Comparatively, the status quo IS more acceptable |
eridani |
Jun-09-09 06:04 AM |
#105 |
| -
Capitalism is great for delivering us Pet Rocks, but NOT Healthcare |
leftstreet |
Jun-09-09 12:36 AM |
#102 |
| -
good its just like car insurance |
democracy1st |
Jun-09-09 01:53 AM |
#104 |
| -
So, we're bringing back Debtor's Prison instead of having Universal Health Care. |
TexasObserver |
Jun-09-09 07:04 AM |
#110 |
| -
Yep back to the 19th c. And all to avoid saying that healthcare is a right |
kenny blankenship |
Jun-09-09 10:38 AM |
#144 |
| -
So, the Obama/Democratic plan is to mandate that everybody above a certain income bracket |
MadHound |
Jun-09-09 07:15 AM |
#113 |
| -
Something tells me the health insurance companies love this plan |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jun-09-09 07:23 AM |
#115 |
| -
Nah, they'll do the same thing that they did this year |
MadHound |
Jun-09-09 07:38 AM |
#117 |
| -
He's already lost most of the far left |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jun-09-09 07:42 AM |
#118 |
| -
The far left is not that powerful or that large |
merh |
Jun-09-09 10:10 AM |
#139 |
| -
But it's full of worker bees |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jun-09-09 11:53 AM |
#158 |
| -
That's true. |
Celeborn Skywalker |
Jun-09-09 01:44 PM |
#172 |
| -
Only if the "far left" is stupid. |
Dawgs |
Jun-09-09 12:42 PM |
#168 |
| -
In 2000 a lot of them voted for Nader |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jun-09-09 04:19 PM |
#184 |
| -
You do realize that when it comes to Korporate USAmerika |
ProudDad |
Jun-10-09 02:09 PM |
#197 |
| -
"Does Obama want to just be a four year president?" I think that was the plan all along. |
SammyWinstonJack |
Jun-09-09 10:24 AM |
#143 |
| -
We're all becoming indentured servants to the corporations. n/t |
Ganja Ninja |
Jun-09-09 07:23 AM |
#116 |
| -
Mandate, no public option, health savings accounts, perfect for all corporate overlords |
newportdadde |
Jun-09-09 07:49 AM |
#120 |
| -
The administration and the insurance industry |
blindpig |
Jun-09-09 07:55 AM |
#121 |
| -
K&R. nt |
raccoon |
Jun-09-09 07:56 AM |
#122 |
| -
This is bogus |
cagesoulman |
Jun-09-09 08:28 AM |
#127 |
| -
Who did you think was going to pay for it? |
bridgit |
Jun-09-09 08:32 AM |
#129 |
| -
All the plans will be full of problems |
ecstatic |
Jun-09-09 10:05 AM |
#137 |
| -
So, force people to buy a plan that either they can't afford, or isn't accepted anywhere. |
mainegreen |
Jun-09-09 11:02 AM |
#146 |
| -
He's not even trying is he? But he sure gives great speeches! |
SammyWinstonJack |
Jun-09-09 11:10 AM |
#151 |
| -
So the poorer neighborhoods will be filled with people with no insurance AND owe fines. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 11:09 AM |
#150 |
| -
What part of "mandate" don't you understand? |
johnaries |
Jun-09-09 11:21 AM |
#154 |
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Man date is is a very controversial subject for some. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 11:33 AM |
#156 |
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It's what we've been doing with auto insurance for years. (nt) |
ehrnst |
Jun-09-09 11:41 AM |
#157 |
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look for repugs to make BIG gains in the house/senate in 2010. |
dysfunctional press |
Jun-09-09 11:55 AM |
#159 |
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It's the same approach the industry/government took with uninsured car drivers... |
KansDem |
Jun-09-09 12:16 PM |
#164 |
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But if you don't have a car, you don't get a fine. Not like this. |
Kablooie |
Jun-09-09 12:33 PM |
#165 |
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Hey, you're right! |
KansDem |
Jun-09-09 12:41 PM |
#167 |
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Well, you can analogize this to current Medicare law. You are REQUIRED to have $94 |
CTyankee |
Jun-09-09 03:00 PM |
#181 |
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Its the kind their MASTERS want |
OwnedByFerrets |
Jun-09-09 05:34 PM |
#190 |
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Change you can believe in. |
Thothmes |
Jun-09-09 06:51 PM |
#192 |
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