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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-08-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. I support it fully...
Insurance works by spreading the risk out over a large pool of people. The healthy people subsidize the sick people. The is the foundation of health insurance. Only by everyone having health insurance will there be an accurate sharing. If all the 'healthy people' decide to opt-out, you are left with an unbalanced system.
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  -Good god! So if you don't BUY health insurance, you get FINED!!??? WTF!!!??? Kablooie  Jun-08-09 06:36 PM   #0 
  - Oh, don't worry, the fines will be on a sliding scale, based on your ability to pay.  billyoc   Jun-08-09 06:38 PM   #1 
  - Actually, if you read Kennedy's draft bill they will be, n/t  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 10:17 PM   #85 
  - Right. And that sliding scale knows how much of that income is 'disposable'  Matariki   Jun-09-09 10:01 AM   #135 
  - whereas in other countries there is nationalized care, not nationalized insurance  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jun-08-09 11:39 PM   #98 
  - But in other countries the people pay TAXES to support their health care so  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 08:00 AM   #123 
     - I have no problem paying extra taxes  GreenArrow   Jun-09-09 08:26 AM   #126 
     - I agree with you. But I got the impression with most, not all, posters on this thread  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 08:33 AM   #130 
     - They don't get it for free, but they pay per capita on average just  Fool Count   Jun-09-09 09:25 AM   #132 
     - welcome to DU!  renate   Jun-09-09 09:27 AM   #133 
     - "Nobody says that health care can come for free."  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 09:49 AM   #134 
     - They don't want free health care, they want someone rich to pay for them.  dkf   Jun-09-09 11:12 AM   #152 
     - Classic straw man.  ZombieHorde   Jun-09-09 11:14 AM   #153 
  - Will my jail sentence be lowered on scale based on how claustrophobic I am?  shadowknows69   Jun-09-09 06:11 AM   #108 
     - maybe in jail you could be treated for that.  Iris   Jun-09-09 12:44 PM   #169 
     - Don't worry, debtors' prison is up to 14% nicer than regular prison  spoony   Jun-09-09 03:03 PM   #182 
        - Yay, double fucking plus good.  shadowknows69   Jun-09-09 10:57 PM   #194 
  - it's CHANGE, baby!!  Skittles   Jun-08-09 06:39 PM   #2 
  - misinformation FAIL  Teaser   Jun-08-09 06:40 PM   #6 
  - She will KICK YOUR ASS.  Bluebear   Jun-08-09 06:43 PM   #12 
  - sucking insurance ass is not misinformation  Skittles   Jun-08-09 07:21 PM   #37 
  - Care to adumbrate something really pointless, like  Deja Q   Jun-09-09 12:08 PM   #161 
  - Yes We Can!!!  Old Hob   Jun-08-09 11:21 PM   #94 
  - Can't afford insurance, won't be able to afford fine  AnOhioan   Jun-08-09 06:39 PM   #3 
  - So you go to jail and get medical care there I guess.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 06:39 PM   #4 
  - And 3 squares a this rate, not a bad option.  AnOhioan   Jun-08-09 06:40 PM   #8 
     - Nope. Read this Prison blues: States slimming down inmate meals ( no breakfast for ex.)  OmmmSweetOmmm   Jun-08-09 06:50 PM   #19 
        - If you want a nicer jail experience,  elehhhhna   Jun-09-09 05:09 PM   #185 
           - lol! Recent article (5/28) Netherlands Prisons Closing For Lack Of Criminals.  OmmmSweetOmmm   Jun-10-09 08:29 AM   #196 
  - And there we are. Can't pay the fine, go to jail, and we have people imprisoned for poverty.  Greyhound   Jun-08-09 07:12 PM   #30 
  - We don't need to jail them. Just execute them and decrease the surplus population.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 07:51 PM   #44 
  - More cheap prison labor!  SammyWinstonJack   Jun-09-09 10:06 AM   #138 
     - or Soylent Green.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 10:59 PM   #195 
  - But if the turnip hits you hard enough, it can get blood from you.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 07:52 PM   #45 
  - Don't give them any ideas. I can see it now, the latest in crowd control,  Greyhound   Jun-08-09 10:15 PM   #83 
  - What I heard from MA was that the fine was often cheaper than insurance so people paid the fine  JVS   Jun-09-09 12:36 PM   #166 
  - Sounds like the Massachusetts program.  TheCowsCameHome   Jun-08-09 06:40 PM   #5 
  - I was told, but do not have sources yet, that the Mass progam has been a big failure  Political Heretic   Jun-08-09 10:00 PM   #70 
  - The Mass system  ProudDad   Jun-09-09 12:29 AM   #100 
  - ..and the fines for haVING NO AUTO INSURANCE? How's that working out? LOL  elehhhhna   Jun-09-09 05:11 PM   #186 
  - It is at least some better than the Mass plan.  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 10:21 PM   #89 
  - That would be Mitt Romney's pet Massachusetts program?  KamaAina   Jun-09-09 08:30 AM   #128 
     - Yes, that very one.  TheCowsCameHome   Jun-09-09 12:51 PM   #170 
  - I was afraid of this.  Chemisse   Jun-08-09 06:40 PM   #7 
  - Yeah, both Clinton and Edwards nt  Adelante   Jun-09-09 07:09 AM   #112 
  - None of the "allowed" "reform" plans are worth a damn  DJ13   Jun-08-09 06:41 PM   #9 
  - Plus they got theirs w/ Medicare part D. They need to  elehhhhna   Jun-09-09 05:16 PM   #187 
  - Buy health insurance? Okay how poor can you be before the government  jwirr   Jun-08-09 06:41 PM   #10 
  - $16,500 for an individual; $33,000 for a family of four  sandnsea   Jun-08-09 07:04 PM   #24 
  - If this is what we are forced to take those figures should be much higher.  jwirr   Jun-08-09 07:09 PM   #26 
  - I wish. And medicare isn't income based  sandnsea   Jun-08-09 07:14 PM   #33 
  - I didn't support Hillary, and this is one of the reasons  Yo_Mama   Jun-08-09 07:23 PM   #38 
  - This is such bullshit. Mandates like this never accurately get "affordable" right.  Political Heretic   Jun-08-09 10:01 PM   #71 
  - Great. And $33,000 in Iowa is a WHOLE LOT MORE money than $33k in San Francisco  Matariki   Jun-09-09 10:04 AM   #136 
  - They make those adjustments with food stamps etc.  sandnsea   Jun-09-09 12:12 PM   #163 
     - Will they make adjustments for people with large debt, housing costs  Matariki   Jun-09-09 02:42 PM   #177 
        - Will they for single payer?  sandnsea   Jun-09-09 02:45 PM   #178 
        - I get your point - it has to payed for somehow  Matariki   Jun-09-09 02:52 PM   #180 
        - If they're going to implement a confiscatory policy,  elehhhhna   Jun-09-09 05:30 PM   #188 
        - I agree with you completely.  Matariki   Jun-09-09 05:54 PM   #191 
        - If they're going to implement a confiscatory policy,  elehhhhna   Jun-09-09 05:30 PM   #189 
  - $16,500 for an individual?  Raineyb   Jun-09-09 10:58 AM   #145 
     - lol, it's twice what it is now  sandnsea   Jun-09-09 12:10 PM   #162 
  - In the Kennedy plan  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 10:23 PM   #90 
  - Wow  bluestateguy   Jun-08-09 06:41 PM   #11 
  - Oh yeah. I was so upset I forgot to add a link.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 06:54 PM   #20 
  - Every day the insult to working and sick people gets worse and worse. n/t  Cleita   Jun-08-09 06:43 PM   #13 
  - I believe you so far but please provide sources  JonLP24   Jun-08-09 06:46 PM   #14 
  - Here you go. I forgot because I was upset.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 06:55 PM   #21 
  - Can't afford mandated car insurance? Walk! Can't afford mandated health insurance? DIE!  kenny blankenship   Jun-08-09 06:49 PM   #15 
  - Lol - what do people who don't work have for insurance now?  HughMoran   Jun-08-09 07:12 PM   #31 
  - Duh. But they aren't criminalized for being indigent.  kenny blankenship   Jun-08-09 07:17 PM   #36 
     - Look, I didn't start this  HughMoran   Jun-08-09 07:38 PM   #42 
  - Well, do you pay taxes? If not, to whom do you complain?  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 08:09 AM   #124 
  - Always difficult to sell economics of helping people, worse now in bad times.  MarjorieG   Jun-08-09 06:50 PM   #16 
  - All we have to do is to spend most of our current health care dollars on CARE  eridani   Jun-08-09 07:57 PM   #49 
  - that's what bad times are for. to convince you the safety net is too expensive.  Hannah Bell   Jun-09-09 06:08 AM   #107 
  - This sounds like bullshit that is put out there in the quest to not give us affortable healthcare  madokie   Jun-08-09 06:50 PM   #17 
  - Gotta keep fattening up those insurance companies  Individualist   Jun-08-09 06:50 PM   #18 
  - And keep the "contributions" (aka bribes) flowing into those campaigns (eom)  dflprincess   Jun-08-09 09:41 PM   #64 
  - I will gladly buy health insurance  handmade34   Jun-08-09 06:58 PM   #22 
  - Exactly.  diamidue   Jun-08-09 08:28 PM   #52 
  - You are dreaming of times when government actually had fiscal responsibility  nolabels   Jun-08-09 10:24 PM   #91 
  - I support it fully...  kirby   Jun-08-09 06:59 PM   #23 
  - Finally...  sendero   Jun-08-09 08:46 PM   #58 
  - If it's a tax then everyone needs to pay a flat amount and receive equivilent service.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:03 PM   #73 
     - Well...  sendero   Jun-09-09 06:30 AM   #109 
     - Including Congresscritters! As you stated, everyone needs to pay a flat amount  SammyWinstonJack   Jun-09-09 10:16 AM   #141 
  - Here's the rub. We're paying for profit middle men.  mmonk   Jun-08-09 10:03 PM   #72 
  - I don't support it fully - but am willing to live with it  Ms. Toad   Jun-08-09 10:27 PM   #92 
  - But but that sounds like ...socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!  madmom   Jun-09-09 10:15 AM   #140 
  - Thank Hillary, Krugman, Edwards, et al  sandnsea   Jun-08-09 07:05 PM   #25 
  - Because, God knows,  dflprincess   Jun-08-09 09:54 PM   #68 
  - .  SammyWinstonJack   Jun-09-09 10:17 AM   #142 
  - Ewards also pushed for a full public plan availalbe to anyone who wanted it  Political Heretic   Jun-08-09 10:03 PM   #74 
  - Get a grip. What does "universal" mean to you?  lumberjack_jeff   Jun-08-09 07:09 PM   #27 
  - And don't forget about those Cadillac driving welfare queens and their relatives,  Greyhound   Jun-08-09 07:15 PM   #34 
  - It's The Healthcare CEO Pocket Lining Act of 2009  WeDidIt   Jun-08-09 07:11 PM   #28 
  - An outrage! It should be paid by taxes, which are, after all, optional. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Jun-08-09 07:12 PM   #29 
  - Heh  HughMoran   Jun-08-09 07:13 PM   #32 
  - If a "health care" tax was based on taxable income off the 1040 form  dflprincess   Jun-08-09 09:45 PM   #65 
  - Thats just plan evil..nt  and-justice-for-all   Jun-08-09 07:15 PM   #35 
  - The only way healthcare can work for everyone is if eveyone is invested in the system  Maru Kitteh   Jun-08-09 07:24 PM   #39 
  - But if it's going to be mandatory for everyone to be invested in the system  Telly Savalas   Jun-08-09 07:54 PM   #47 
  - But I make a profit of three and a quarter cents  bat country   Jun-09-09 02:16 PM   #174 
  - Wow, I was worried there for a second.  Tim01   Jun-08-09 07:24 PM   #40 
  - Okay, so we've solved the "not everyone has insurance" problem.  kcass1954   Jun-08-09 07:38 PM   #41 
  - That's true. Insurance companies often cancel the policy if the bills are too high.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 07:50 PM   #43 
  - This was a RW talking point during the election. It was a misrepresentation then  FSogol   Jun-08-09 07:54 PM   #46 
  - This is going to make a lot of people angry..people currently scraping by  lostnfound   Jun-08-09 07:54 PM   #48 
  - Government forcing people to spend money?  SnoopDog   Jun-08-09 08:07 PM   #50 
  - And it's not like requiring auto insurance. Driving an auto is a privilege, not a right.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:05 PM   #75 
  - Your taxes force you to "buy" armed forces to protect the country, public schools, police  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 08:42 AM   #131 
     - No - your analogy in not valid...  SnoopDog   Jun-09-09 02:37 PM   #176 
        - As a Medicare recipient I was "ordered" to pay $94 (deducted from my monthly SS check)  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 02:52 PM   #179 
  - Yeah. You can't afford health insurance but you sure as hell  Fire1   Jun-08-09 08:08 PM   #51 
  - THIS is why I was never big on the whole "health care reform" nonsense.  InvisibleTouch   Jun-08-09 08:35 PM   #53 
  - You take your chances, but don't show up at the emergency room.  olegramps   Jun-09-09 07:08 AM   #111 
     - You don't know me nearly well enough to make that assertion.  InvisibleTouch   Jun-09-09 07:42 PM   #193 
  - What do you expect from full coverage? Everybody plays so everybody pays.  stray cat   Jun-08-09 08:36 PM   #54 
  - "Waivers would be available for those who could not cover the cost of insurance."  BlooInBloo   Jun-08-09 08:39 PM   #55 
  - Yet they don't tell us who gets to decide you can't afford it  dflprincess   Jun-08-09 09:47 PM   #66 
  - Excuse me...  femrap   Jun-08-09 08:39 PM   #56 
  - It's what John Edwards was saying  GreenArrow   Jun-08-09 09:22 PM   #63 
  - Democrats shooting themselves in the foot AGAIN!  Kansas Wyatt   Jun-08-09 08:46 PM   #57 
  - It's a tax, no?  donco6   Jun-08-09 08:48 PM   #59 
  - Sounds like a tax to me.  Swede   Jun-08-09 08:51 PM   #61 
  - Got me.  donco6   Jun-08-09 09:16 PM   #62 
  - No. A tax would insure equivilent coverage for all. Companies just cover what the want.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:07 PM   #77 
  - Taxes are paid to the government..  Fumesucker   Jun-08-09 11:22 PM   #95 
  - I see.  donco6   Jun-08-09 11:27 PM   #96 
  - No, what is being described is not a tax.  ZombieHorde   Jun-09-09 11:24 AM   #155 
  - So we'll be forced to subsidize insurance company profits?  jtrockville   Jun-08-09 08:50 PM   #60 
  - That's where the reform comes in  dflprincess   Jun-08-09 09:49 PM   #67 
     - Actually that part isn't true  sandnsea   Jun-08-09 11:16 PM   #93 
        - Thank you for your voice of sanity in this thread.  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 08:14 AM   #125 
           - People are not whining about having to pay  dflprincess   Jun-09-09 12:03 PM   #160 
              - Your analysis is very good and makes sense. I wasn't talking about you.  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 01:05 PM   #171 
  - People who can't afford to pay will have waivers - this is ALWAYS SUCH BULLSHIT  Political Heretic   Jun-08-09 09:59 PM   #69 
  - Sure why not!? You have to have insurance for your car now  Rex   Jun-08-09 10:06 PM   #76 
  - No. A driving a car is a privilege. You don't have to do it. Medical care is not a privilege.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:09 PM   #78 
     - Not really a privilege if you have to get to work with a car.  Rex   Jun-08-09 10:10 PM   #81 
        - It is, so you can lose your license as a punishment. The gov can't stop med care to punish.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:15 PM   #82 
           - What is to stop them from taking away your license if you have no  Rex   Jun-08-09 10:17 PM   #88 
              - For a lot of people, driving to work is a necessity, simply because car companies junked the trolley  Selatius   Jun-09-09 12:40 AM   #103 
  - Entirely too many Americans are skipping out on their patriotic duty  Fumesucker   Jun-08-09 10:10 PM   #79 
  - That's the spirit! That's the Ameriken way! Yeah!  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:16 PM   #84 
  - And I trust you more than the Democrats why?  gulliver   Jun-08-09 10:10 PM   #80 
  - You trust me? Why ... I'm flattered.  Kablooie   Jun-08-09 10:17 PM   #86 
  - Given the choice between trusting a random stranger and an elected Democratic politician?  kenny blankenship   Jun-09-09 11:03 AM   #147 
     - You've got a point there.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 11:04 AM   #148 
  - Because the OP has never sold you down the river...  spoony   Jun-09-09 03:05 PM   #183 
  - Sounds like even more incentive to lie about income on your returns  Rex_Goodheart   Jun-08-09 10:17 PM   #87 
  - Wow- the worst of all possible plans. Amazing.  Marr   Jun-08-09 11:35 PM   #97 
  - I don't like it  ProudDad   Jun-09-09 12:27 AM   #99 
  - Ha ha if this passes think I'll lose my job?  rachelle-laughlin   Jun-09-09 06:08 AM   #106 
  - It's not about your job, regardless of what you do.  proud2BlibKansan   Jun-09-09 07:43 AM   #119 
  - You will just have to raise your prices to match the new govt. regulated standards.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 11:07 AM   #149 
  - Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jun-09-09 01:50 PM   #173 
  - 11. CEOs compensation limited to 250,000.  olegramps   Jun-09-09 07:18 AM   #114 
  - If I remember right, there are pieces of what you have listed already under  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 02:22 PM   #175 
  - What a clusterfuck. Hopefully this plan will fail to pass. It's starting to make the status quo...  JVS   Jun-09-09 12:32 AM   #101 
  - Comparatively, the status quo IS more acceptable  eridani   Jun-09-09 06:04 AM   #105 
  - Capitalism is great for delivering us Pet Rocks, but NOT Healthcare  leftstreet   Jun-09-09 12:36 AM   #102 
  - good its just like car insurance  democracy1st   Jun-09-09 01:53 AM   #104 
  - So, we're bringing back Debtor's Prison instead of having Universal Health Care.  TexasObserver   Jun-09-09 07:04 AM   #110 
  - Yep back to the 19th c. And all to avoid saying that healthcare is a right  kenny blankenship   Jun-09-09 10:38 AM   #144 
  - So, the Obama/Democratic plan is to mandate that everybody above a certain income bracket  MadHound   Jun-09-09 07:15 AM   #113 
  - Something tells me the health insurance companies love this plan  proud2BlibKansan   Jun-09-09 07:23 AM   #115 
  - Nah, they'll do the same thing that they did this year  MadHound   Jun-09-09 07:38 AM   #117 
     - He's already lost most of the far left  proud2BlibKansan   Jun-09-09 07:42 AM   #118 
        - The far left is not that powerful or that large  merh   Jun-09-09 10:10 AM   #139 
        - But it's full of worker bees  proud2BlibKansan   Jun-09-09 11:53 AM   #158 
           - That's true.  Celeborn Skywalker   Jun-09-09 01:44 PM   #172 
        - Only if the "far left" is stupid.  Dawgs   Jun-09-09 12:42 PM   #168 
           - In 2000 a lot of them voted for Nader  proud2BlibKansan   Jun-09-09 04:19 PM   #184 
           - You do realize that when it comes to Korporate USAmerika  ProudDad   Jun-10-09 02:09 PM   #197 
  - "Does Obama want to just be a four year president?" I think that was the plan all along.  SammyWinstonJack   Jun-09-09 10:24 AM   #143 
  - We're all becoming indentured servants to the corporations. n/t  Ganja Ninja   Jun-09-09 07:23 AM   #116 
  - Mandate, no public option, health savings accounts, perfect for all corporate overlords  newportdadde   Jun-09-09 07:49 AM   #120 
  - The administration and the insurance industry  blindpig   Jun-09-09 07:55 AM   #121 
  - K&R. nt  raccoon   Jun-09-09 07:56 AM   #122 
  - This is bogus  cagesoulman   Jun-09-09 08:28 AM   #127 
  - Who did you think was going to pay for it?  bridgit   Jun-09-09 08:32 AM   #129 
  - All the plans will be full of problems  ecstatic   Jun-09-09 10:05 AM   #137 
  - So, force people to buy a plan that either they can't afford, or isn't accepted anywhere.  mainegreen   Jun-09-09 11:02 AM   #146 
  - He's not even trying is he? But he sure gives great speeches!  SammyWinstonJack   Jun-09-09 11:10 AM   #151 
  - So the poorer neighborhoods will be filled with people with no insurance AND owe fines.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 11:09 AM   #150 
  - What part of "mandate" don't you understand?  johnaries   Jun-09-09 11:21 AM   #154 
  - Man date is is a very controversial subject for some.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 11:33 AM   #156 
  - It's what we've been doing with auto insurance for years. (nt)  ehrnst   Jun-09-09 11:41 AM   #157 
  - look for repugs to make BIG gains in the house/senate in 2010.  dysfunctional press   Jun-09-09 11:55 AM   #159 
  - It's the same approach the industry/government took with uninsured car drivers...  KansDem   Jun-09-09 12:16 PM   #164 
  - But if you don't have a car, you don't get a fine. Not like this.  Kablooie   Jun-09-09 12:33 PM   #165 
     - Hey, you're right!  KansDem   Jun-09-09 12:41 PM   #167 
     - Well, you can analogize this to current Medicare law. You are REQUIRED to have $94  CTyankee   Jun-09-09 03:00 PM   #181 
  - Its the kind their MASTERS want  OwnedByFerrets   Jun-09-09 05:34 PM   #190 
  - Change you can believe in.  Thothmes   Jun-09-09 06:51 PM   #192 

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