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Reply #142: Honestly, I think it's a matter of tone. [View All]

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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-29-09 04:24 PM
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142. Honestly, I think it's a matter of tone.
There is an enormous difference between posts which criticize the President's actions based on rational, thoughtful discourse (even those tinged with anger) and posts which denounce the President as a traitor, a corporatist, a coward, a homophobe, a Bush-lite, etc.

Of course DUers can be angry. Even at members of their own party. And they should act on that anger with political savvy -- by calling our Senators, writing our representatives, organizing protests designed to change public opinion. But the moment they begin to undermine the integrity of the administration, to declare the elections pointless, to dismiss our party in its entirety, they are doing more to hurt the cause than to help.

We need everyone we can to push forward -- toward prosecutions of the Bush administration, toward greater economic regulation, toward more affordable health care, toward care for returning veterans, toward greater social equality, toward decreased spending on military pet projects, toward better public education, toward higher national goals in terms of morality and the advancement of science, toward, in short, traditional Democratic ideals. The divisive tantrums, the Chicken Little "sky is falling" tirades, the Survivor-like attempts at alliance building through emotional extortion, have all got to stop.

As I see it, no one gets a free pass in this. Everyone is deeply angry and fundamentally connected to some political or social injustice. Some of us have seen family and friends economically and spiritually destroyed. Some of us have seen communities devastated and entire socio-economic strata left for dead. All of us have seen the erosion of our basic constitutional rights on behalf of people whose wealth and power override ther basic humanity. If we all allow ourselves to wallow in it, to degrade the level of discourse, to fling angry sound bites that are easily dismissed by those in charge, we will, collectively, go nowhere, screaming our damn fool heads off the whole way.
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  -Why do we have to do this every night on DU npk  May-28-09 08:41 PM   #0 
  - This could be epic.  flvegan   May-28-09 08:42 PM   #1 
  - + f'n juan  d_b   May-28-09 09:02 PM   #8 
  - I think you are right. Pass some over will you?  Javaman   May-29-09 11:28 AM   #105 
  - Thank you. Well said.  Neecy   May-28-09 08:42 PM   #2 
  - I'm amazed at how many people who claim to support gay rights...  Forkboy   May-28-09 08:50 PM   #3 
  - That's what I as trying to say. You said it better  npk   May-28-09 08:52 PM   #6 
  - Hell yeah.  liberalmuse   May-28-09 08:50 PM   #4 
  - My thoughts on this echo your own.  Seldona   May-29-09 08:54 AM   #77 
  - 5th rec. nt  ZombieHorde   May-28-09 08:51 PM   #5 
  - It's probably meant in fun.  sibelian   May-28-09 09:01 PM   #7 
  - Sadists have a different idea of 'fun' than most of us  Bluenorthwest   May-29-09 10:01 AM   #83 
  - recommended.  Starry Messenger   May-28-09 09:17 PM   #9 
  - I am staying out of it because I know I cannot possibly  Lisa0825   May-28-09 09:18 PM   #10 
  - understand the extent of their feelings.  AlbertCat   May-29-09 04:56 PM   #145 
  - Well...  Ohio Joe   May-28-09 09:22 PM   #11 
  - KICKED AND RECC'D  cliffordu   May-28-09 09:37 PM   #12 
  - Everyone has a right to his/her feelings. If you don't share it, you can still understand.  patrice   May-28-09 10:11 PM   #13 
  - K&R  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-28-09 10:21 PM   #14 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-28-09 10:34 PM   #15 
  - Obama hasn't done one good thing. He's just like Bush - maybe worse.  Maru Kitteh   May-28-09 11:35 PM   #25 
  - If you stop after the first sentence, you speak the truth.  Greyhound   May-29-09 12:26 AM   #46 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-29-09 01:47 AM   #66 
  - If you stop after the first sentence, you speak the truth.  AlbertCat   May-29-09 05:35 PM   #147 
  - Textbook strawman  kenfrequed   May-29-09 09:33 AM   #81 
     - It was a over-the-top response to a over the top post  AtheistCrusader   May-29-09 11:40 AM   #108 
  - SHUT UP TERRORIST!!!!!!!!111111  TheWatcher   May-28-09 11:41 PM   #27 
  - !!!SERIES!!  Toasterlad   May-28-09 11:43 PM   #28 
  - Cute. Did you pick that up  ecstatic   May-29-09 12:50 AM   #55 
  - See this is one reason why there are flame wars--this poster knows this is just flame-bait.  WI_DEM   May-29-09 08:53 AM   #76 
  - I think there's a basic lack of understanding between people who use this board differently.  rucky   May-28-09 10:41 PM   #16 
  - I try and do the same  npk   May-28-09 10:58 PM   #18 
  - Great Post, Rucky  ProfessorGAC   May-29-09 11:13 AM   #97 
  - I would be bothered less...  Chulanowa   May-28-09 10:56 PM   #17 
  - I don't get your point.  Starry Messenger   May-28-09 11:05 PM   #19 
  - Of course we wish he'd say more  Chulanowa   May-28-09 11:21 PM   #21 
  - He supports it by his silence  Missy Vixen   May-28-09 11:30 PM   #23 
  - Oh yes, of course  Chulanowa   May-29-09 12:23 AM   #42 
     - There's already talk of recalling them/working against their re-election.  LeftyMom   May-29-09 09:51 PM   #157 
  - Well I can only speak for myself.  Starry Messenger   May-28-09 11:45 PM   #29 
  - He doesn't get a pass from me because he hasn't done one single fucking thing for gays  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-29-09 12:44 AM   #51 
     - Question for you then.  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:05 AM   #59 
     - Clinton wouldn't have given a microphone to McClurkin or Warren  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-29-09 01:08 AM   #60 
     - You may be right  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:30 AM   #63 
     - If you go back a few pages you will see the reactions.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 10:23 AM   #86 
     - Clinton gave benefits to her State Dept same sex couples. She's already done more for GLBT couples  riderinthestorm   May-29-09 10:41 AM   #88 
        - The country, and DU as a microcosm, has come a long way imo  EFerrari   May-29-09 12:03 PM   #114 
     - sadly... excellent post. I don't think he allows himself to accept that it's not a choice  Divine Discontent   May-29-09 10:55 AM   #90 
        - Well, there's more to every comment than  OhioBlue   May-29-09 09:00 PM   #155 
     - Kucinich, andb Gravel for starters.....  jaundicedi   May-29-09 04:44 PM   #144 
     - Well I'm sure your bitching and moaning won't encourage him.  liquid diamond   May-29-09 10:22 PM   #161 
  - I Think the Point Is That None Of the Justices Are Black, But Obama Is.  Toasterlad   May-28-09 11:48 PM   #31 
     - Oh Toasty.  Starry Messenger   May-28-09 11:57 PM   #33 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-29-09 12:25 AM   #44 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-29-09 08:50 AM   #75 
        - Announcing that you have alerted is also against the rules.  QC   May-29-09 08:59 AM   #79 
     - No. Read my later posts  Chulanowa   May-29-09 12:39 AM   #48 
        - I'd Be Happy To.  Toasterlad   May-30-09 01:35 PM   #171 
  - Damn!! You just laid it all out there, didn't you???  Number23   May-28-09 11:40 PM   #26 
  - Maybe because he promised to use the bully pulpit to help?  Starry Messenger   May-28-09 11:48 PM   #30 
  - I understand that and I don't even PROFESS to understand Obama's thinking on this  Number23   May-28-09 11:55 PM   #32 
     - Which question?  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 12:00 AM   #34 
        - (sigh)  Number23   May-29-09 12:06 AM   #35 
           - I'm sorry.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 12:15 AM   #37 
              - Night,night Starry...  Number23   May-29-09 12:22 AM   #41 
  - The CA Supremes are so lame!  AlbertCat   May-29-09 05:50 PM   #148 
  - Because he has his own part in this problem.  EFerrari   May-29-09 12:11 AM   #36 
  - Could you be a little more vague?  Chulanowa   May-29-09 12:43 AM   #50 
     - You sound too exhausted to take in anything more specific.  EFerrari   May-29-09 12:53 AM   #58 
  - I don't understand the point of the pictures (with captions)  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-29-09 12:42 AM   #49 
  - The captioned picture...  Chulanowa   May-29-09 12:46 AM   #52 
     - Yes, I'm aware of that  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-29-09 12:51 AM   #56 
        - No, I'm saying it's why he's catching MORE flak  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:20 AM   #61 
           - There's more at stake here than only Prop H8.  EFerrari   May-29-09 01:26 AM   #62 
           - I've pointed to it. And I've been explaining it.  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:39 AM   #64 
              - How did you miss the twenty FUCK THE CA SUPREMES! threads  EFerrari   May-29-09 01:56 AM   #68 
              - Thank you for putting it so well.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 10:18 AM   #85 
              - this is ridiculous  Neecy   May-29-09 10:17 AM   #84 
           - It's not Racism, per se. It's that he's not a superhero. And he's not being MLK.  Moonwalk   May-29-09 12:19 PM   #115 
              - What you are describing is not racism. No one is expecting Obama  EFerrari   May-29-09 12:26 PM   #116 
              - Energy needs to be directed where it will make a difference. We squander it--  Moonwalk   May-29-09 03:35 PM   #133 
                 - That's easy. I'd put them outside the Arch Diocese here in San Francisco  EFerrari   May-29-09 04:14 PM   #140 
              - That makes a lot of sense  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:24 PM   #121 
                 - It doen't make any sense to say that a public promise  EFerrari   May-29-09 04:17 PM   #141 
  - You may have struck a nerve  ecstatic   May-29-09 12:49 AM   #54 
  - I'd be a shitty dentist  Chulanowa   May-29-09 01:43 AM   #65 
     - You think that it is all about prop 8  mitchtv   May-29-09 10:06 PM   #158 
  - Even they decided according to what they think is the law  treestar   May-29-09 03:22 PM   #132 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-28-09 11:12 PM   #20 
  - DU's very own form of McCarthyism.  TahitiNut   May-28-09 11:33 PM   #24 
     - Funny the gender related allegiances  omega minimo   May-29-09 12:19 AM   #39 
     - The cluelessness of privilege.  QC   May-29-09 07:33 AM   #74 
  - The GLBT people are tired of sitting in the back of the bus  Missy Vixen   May-28-09 11:27 PM   #22 
  - oh no you di n't  omega minimo   May-29-09 12:19 AM   #40 
  - So, if you think I used the incorrect phrase, why don't you help me find a better one?  Missy Vixen   May-29-09 12:51 AM   #57 
  - Under the bus maybe?  Lost-in-FL   May-29-09 12:50 PM   #119 
  - Might not be the best expression for the situation  AtheistCrusader   May-29-09 11:41 AM   #109 
  - But every group has had that happen in the past  treestar   May-29-09 03:20 PM   #129 
     - Yep... we've just gotta 'wait', right?  Rhythm   May-29-09 04:05 PM   #139 
     - So, in other words, they can just wait?  Missy Vixen   May-30-09 01:09 AM   #168 
  - Thank you  NMMNG   May-29-09 12:17 AM   #38 
  - I wish I had worded that differently  npk   May-29-09 12:24 AM   #43 
     - You did fine.  EFerrari   May-29-09 12:25 AM   #45 
     - Thanks EFerrari  npk   May-29-09 12:49 AM   #53 
     - I didn't mean you specifically  NMMNG   May-29-09 12:31 AM   #47 
  - b/c your OP has 31 recs  omega minimo   May-29-09 01:53 AM   #67 
  - Thanks.  Chovexani   May-29-09 02:05 AM   #69 
  - :)  cboy4   May-29-09 02:12 AM   #70 
  - Parade here Saturday,  mahina   May-29-09 02:59 AM   #71 
  - Sounds great!  EFerrari   May-29-09 11:34 AM   #107 
  - I object to...  jimlup   May-29-09 06:16 AM   #72 
  - We need a nightly cynicism wrap-up.  sofa king   May-29-09 07:15 AM   #73 
  - I think the GLBT critics of POTUS are right.  Deep13   May-29-09 08:58 AM   #78 
  - Great post  spiritual_gunfighter   May-29-09 09:08 AM   #80 
  - because just like in America  lies and propaganda   May-29-09 09:55 AM   #82 
  - but it just keeps going on, and on, and on, and on, and on...  Gman   May-29-09 10:35 AM   #87 
  - Your mocking their concerns is part of the problem, Gman.  Forkboy   May-29-09 10:52 AM   #89 
  - So wait, their right to visit their loved on in a hospital is more important than habeus corpus? N/T  Gorobei   May-29-09 01:15 PM   #120 
     - Thank you, and the defense rests!  Gman   May-29-09 01:28 PM   #122 
     - No, it doesn't.  Forkboy   May-29-09 02:19 PM   #125 
        - No, it's not hard to do  Gman   May-29-09 09:41 PM   #156 
           - Then how about just a little simple respect for their concerns?  Forkboy   May-29-09 10:14 PM   #159 
           - Oh well, at least he's keeping the thread kicked.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 10:19 PM   #160 
           - I have respect for their concerns  Gman   May-29-09 11:50 PM   #163 
           - Again, I'll remind you that I have had my civil equality revoked. Have you been through that?  Duncan Grant   May-30-09 12:09 AM   #165 
     - Why should it be either/or?  Forkboy   May-29-09 02:16 PM   #124 
     - Because the either/or fallacy is a great way to dismiss/trivialize people's concerns.  QC   May-29-09 03:10 PM   #126 
        - Some complain about pet issues, then turn around and promote theirs.  Forkboy   May-29-09 03:17 PM   #127 
           - Exactly!  QC   May-29-09 03:20 PM   #130 
           - There's a difference between promoting your interests...  NorthernSpy   May-29-09 03:39 PM   #135 
              - To me, you pour as much villification and harrasment on the gay community here.  Forkboy   May-29-09 05:24 PM   #146 
                 - I believe in the rules here, and I try to remain civil with those who disagree with me.  NorthernSpy   May-29-09 10:38 PM   #162 
     - Lesbian and gay people in California have had their civil equality revoked. Obama says nothing.  Duncan Grant   May-30-09 12:03 AM   #164 
  - I think the time for them to go on and on and on is now.  riderinthestorm   May-29-09 11:03 AM   #93 
  - "Inconsiderate?"  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 11:15 AM   #98 
  - That's what privilege sounds like. n/t  QC   May-29-09 11:16 AM   #99 
     - Yep.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 11:44 AM   #112 
        - Didn't they know how annoying their whining was? Those high pitched voices?  QC   May-29-09 11:47 AM   #113 
           - Just look at these shameless harridens.  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 12:44 PM   #117 
              - How inconsiderate! n/t  QC   May-29-09 12:46 PM   #118 
              - They are doing something, not venting, and they aren't blaming  treestar   May-29-09 03:21 PM   #131 
                 - Check your history...suffragettes certainly picked in front of the  kiva   May-30-09 12:35 AM   #167 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   May-29-09 11:21 AM   #100 
  - There were some people who felt exactly the same way abut that annoying King guy.  EFerrari   May-29-09 11:26 AM   #103 
  - What a fierce fighter for freedom you are. Crying here.  Bluebear   May-29-09 11:30 AM   #106 
  - Doesn't mean people get to make shit up.  BlooInBloo   May-29-09 10:56 AM   #91 
  - That same or similar posts were on well knwn sites yesterday  EFerrari   May-29-09 11:02 AM   #92 
  - Any post after the video was linked counts as making shit up.  BlooInBloo   May-29-09 11:08 AM   #95 
  - "Thanks to GarySF for posting the video in the comments. This actually makes it worse."...  BlooInBloo   May-29-09 11:12 AM   #96 
     - Now you're "making shit up" as I specified that I hadn't checked John's blog.  EFerrari   May-29-09 11:22 AM   #101 
  - AMEN!  NorthernSpy   May-29-09 03:19 PM   #128 
     - None of the blogs that put that story up yesterday set out to "make shit up".  EFerrari   May-29-09 03:38 PM   #134 
        - They automatically leapt at what they perceived as a opportunity to demonize Obama.  NorthernSpy   May-29-09 03:44 PM   #136 
           - Is your name Barack Obama?  Starry Messenger   May-29-09 03:53 PM   #137 
           - No. When you assign motives like that  EFerrari   May-29-09 04:00 PM   #138 
  - On the record  nvme   May-29-09 11:07 AM   #94 
  - KandR.  Dystopian   May-29-09 11:26 AM   #102 
  - Perhaps we should consider the long-term  jeff47   May-29-09 11:27 AM   #104 
  - I think we ought to minimize *every* historically persecuted group's concerns. Daily, if possible.  Orsino   May-29-09 11:43 AM   #110 
  - What flame wars are you talking about?  vanbean   May-29-09 11:44 AM   #111 
  - Flame wars are started and continued because people love it.  rhett o rick   May-29-09 02:09 PM   #123 
  - Honestly, I think it's a matter of tone.  urgk   May-29-09 04:24 PM   #142 
  - Yup, and everybody knows it.  BlooInBloo   May-29-09 05:50 PM   #149 
  - Sorry. I have seen threads that have only asked why, that have  ScreamingMeemie   May-29-09 06:33 PM   #150 
  - +1  LostinVA   May-29-09 06:37 PM   #151 
  - +2  HarukaTheTrophyWife   May-30-09 12:34 AM   #166 
  - +3 n/t  bluedawg12   May-30-09 02:33 AM   #169 
  - Exactly. For Every Post Overflowing With Venom for Obama, Congress, et al...  Toasterlad   May-30-09 01:50 PM   #173 
  - Very true. And there's something very ugly about privileged people complaining about the "tone"  QC   May-30-09 02:05 PM   #174 
  - Very nice post. Thanks for that.  Number23   May-30-09 04:43 AM   #170 
  - indeed kr  ooglymoogly   May-29-09 04:34 PM   #143 
  - Proud to give this thread its 60th recommendation.  DutchLiberal   May-29-09 07:29 PM   #152 
  - There is nothing funny about being a second class citizen..  and-justice-for-all   May-29-09 07:33 PM   #153 
  - I'm glad I've missed it.  JNelson6563   May-29-09 08:05 PM   #154 
  - There is a contingent of people here who never miss a chance to criticize uppity gay people.  Lyric   May-30-09 01:46 PM   #172 
  - Thanks for this  sniffa   May-30-09 04:00 PM   #175 

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