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Reply #105: Alice Miller writes about a person’s childhood upbringing leading one into becoming “authoritarian" [View All]

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MikeH Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat May-23-09 09:18 PM
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105. Alice Miller writes about a person’s childhood upbringing leading one into becoming “authoritarian"
First, I want to let you know, Time for change, that I always look forward to and enjoy your thoughtful posts with your thoughtful analyses. I have linked to your journal on my journal blogroll.

I have come to like and appreciate Bob Altmeyer’s book about authoritarians and the phenomenon of authoritarianism in followers and leaders.

The Swiss writer and psychologist, Alice Miller, in her books and in her web sites, deals with the matter of the matter of the often harmful effects of a person’s childhood upbringing, and childhood abuse and mistreatment, and the long term effects of such abuse and mistreatment.

Of particular note is her now online book For Your Own Good (a phrase my father used very often; I had a very difficult father), written in the early 1980’s, which starts by documenting the horrific, soul-destroying upbringing recommended by child rearing manuals of past centuries. One such manual was very popular in Germany in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, right at the time that the future perpetrators of the Nazi holocaust were children. She documents that all of the Nazi holocaust perpetrators, without exception (as far as she could find), had “strict” (actually soul-murdering) upbringings. Her book has an entire chapter on Hitler, which documents that he was constantly abused and tormented by his father, and shows how when he became dictator he manifested pretty much his own childhood history.

Here is a passage in Alice Miller’s book about Rudolf Höss, a commandment at Auschwitz, which includes a quote by him.

The strong emphasis on obedience in Rudolf Höss's early upbringing left its indelible mark on him, too. Certainly his father did not intend to raise him to be a commandant at Auschwitz; on the contrary, as a strict Catholic, he had a missionary career in mind for his son. But he had instilled in him at an early age the principle that the authorities must always be obeyed, no matter what their demands. Höss writes:

Our guests were mostly priests of every sort. As the years passed, my father's religious fervor increased. Whenever time permitted, he would take me on pilgrimages to all the holy places in our own country, as well as to Einsiedeln in Switzerland and to Lourdes in France. He prayed passionately that the grace of God might be bestowed on me, so that I might one day become a priest blessed by God. I, too, was as deeply religious as was possible for a boy of my age, and I took my religious duties very seriously. I prayed with true, childlike gravity and performed my duties as acolyte with great earnestness. I had been brought up by my parents to be respectful and obedient toward all adults, and especially the elderly, regardless of their social status. I was taught that my highest duty was to help those in need. It was constantly impressed upon me in forceful terms that I must obey promptly the wishes and commands of my parents, teachers, and priests, and indeed of all adults, including servants, and that nothing must distract me from I this duty. Whatever they said was always right. These basic principles by which I was brought up became second nature to me.

When the authorities later required Höss to run the machinery of death in Auschwitz, how could he have refused? And later, after his arrest, when he was given the assignment of writing an account of his life, he not only performed this task faithfully and conscientiously but politely expressed gratitude for the fact that the time in prison passed more quickly because of "this interesting occupation." His account has provided the world with deep insight into the background of a multitude of otherwise incomprehensible crimes.


In another section of her book, which starts with an excerpt from Heinrich Himmler’s Posen speech in 1943, she has the following passages, which strikingly demonstrate how people who have had a certain childhood upbringing come to be authoritarian followers.

People with any sensitivity cannot be turned into mass murderers overnight. But the men and women who carried out "the final solution" did not let their feelings stand in their way for the simple reason that they had been raised from infancy not to have any feelings of their own but to experience their parents' wishes as their own. These were people who, as children, had been proud of being tough and not crying, of carrying out all their duties "gladly," of not being afraid--that is, at bottom, of not having an inner life at all.

and

This perfect adaptation to society's norms--in other words, to what is called "healthy normality"--carries with it the danger that such a person can be used for practically any purpose. It is not a loss of autonomy that occurs here, because this autonomy never existed, but a switching of values, which in themselves are of no importance anyway for the person in question as long as his whole value system is dominated by the principle of obedience. He has never gone beyond the stage of idealizing his parents with their demands for unquestioning obedience; this idealization can easily be transferred to a Führer or to an ideaology. Since authoritarian parents are always right, there is no need for their children to rack their brains in each case to determine whether what is demanded of them is right or not. And how is this to be judged? Where are the standards supposed to come from if someone has always been told what was right and what was wrong and if he never had an opportunity to become familiar with his own feelings and if, beyond that, attempts at criticism were unacceptable to the parents and thus were too threatening for the child? If an adult has not developed a mind of his own, then he will find himself at the mercy of the authorities for better or worse, just as an infant finds itself at the mercy of its parents. Saying no to those more powerful will always seem too threatening to him.


Altmeyer in his book describes both authoritarian followers and authoritarian leaders. Alice Miller in her book did not show why one person might become an authoritarian follower while another person might become an authoritarian leader (like Hitler). That question was beyond the scope of her book, and I don’t think it was being asked at the time she wrote it.

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  Social Dominators, RW Authoritarians, and the 5 Pillars of the Right Wing Movement in the U.S. Time for change  May-20-09 07:37 PM   #0 
   The descriptions of the authoritarian followers, describes most of my sisters and bils  Mnemosyne    May-20-09 08:21 PM   #1 
   That has got to be difficult  Lorien   May-21-09 09:45 AM   #17 
   Makes me wonder what happens at Reagan family get-togethers...  backscatter712   May-21-09 10:31 AM   #23 
   I had to stop attending family functions after * stole office.  Mnemosyne    May-21-09 12:27 PM   #34 
   Yeah, I have a few of them in my family too  Time for change   May-21-09 05:14 PM   #51 
      Mine don't talk, they scream, loudly. I beat a hasty retreat in 2004 and still  Mnemosyne    May-21-09 05:42 PM   #54 
   my goodness! there should be a picture of Dick Cheney beside  livefreest   May-20-09 09:03 PM   #2 
   Interesting article  Gman   May-20-09 09:09 PM   #3 
   You'll love this.  OnyxCollie   May-21-09 12:52 PM   #35 
   Very good read! Aren't we being subjected to economic propaganda now?  DemReadingDU   May-20-09 09:22 PM   #4 
   Thank you – I haven’t figured out what’s going on with the Obama administration yet  Time for change   May-21-09 03:57 AM   #12 
      I don't think Obama freely chose his advisors  DemReadingDU   May-21-09 08:07 AM   #14 
         Interesting thought -- about Obama's "handling"  Time for change   May-21-09 05:56 PM   #55 
         Give me a break .  clear eye   May-22-09 02:02 PM   #93 
   excellent, TFC  bigtree   May-20-09 09:49 PM   #5 
   Thank you bigtree  Time for change   May-20-09 11:17 PM   #8 
      Really? I feel you are overly optimistic.  Enthusiast   May-21-09 06:03 PM   #56 
         I don't know  Time for change   May-21-09 06:08 PM   #59 
            It's an encouraging trend alright, but  Enthusiast   May-21-09 06:17 PM   #62 
   KandR  punkin87   May-20-09 09:58 PM   #6 
   Kick a roo  proud patriotLead Moderator   May-20-09 10:17 PM   #7 
   K&R  Wednesdays   May-21-09 12:06 AM   #9 
   Beautiful!  Gregorian   May-21-09 12:38 AM   #10 
   Hannity is what Dr Bob calls a "double high"..  Fumesucker   May-21-09 08:23 AM   #15 
   Sorry, posted in wrong spot. --nt  CrispyQ   May-21-09 11:17 AM   #27 
   "...change the consciousness of the authoritarians."  puebloknot   May-21-09 02:26 PM   #44 
   I’m sure people at one time harbored a sense of pessimism  Larry Ogg   May-21-09 03:15 PM   #48 
   Thanks for this hopeful message. I won't turn on the gas and sharpen ...  puebloknot   May-21-09 04:43 PM   #50 
   Very interesting life history  Time for change   May-21-09 06:29 PM   #63 
   Changing the consciousness of authoritarians would be a monumental task IMO  Time for change   May-21-09 06:06 PM   #58 
   K & R & Bookmarked!  earth mom   May-21-09 12:42 AM   #11 
   K&R They are BULLIES of the worst kind....they destroy rather than advance  opihimoimoi   May-21-09 04:41 AM   #13 
   It all depends on which people  Enthusiast   May-21-09 06:06 PM   #57 
   I've read this book, and it is amazing.  D23MIURG23   May-21-09 09:04 AM   #16 
   I don't think they teach Civics in most high schools any more.  Dr.Phool   May-21-09 01:41 PM   #41 
   that was PHENOMENAL.  Soylent Brice   May-21-09 10:00 AM   #18 
   The followers  The Wizard   May-21-09 10:14 AM   #19 
   dupe  Soylent Brice   May-21-09 10:21 AM   #20 
   Is this insightful?  Clarence Birdseye   May-21-09 10:25 AM   #21 
   Theoretically it could be -- But in reality it's not  Time for change   May-21-09 10:30 AM   #22 
   And some progressives are so tolerant and understanding ...  puebloknot   May-21-09 02:33 PM   #46 
   Excuse me... (does a quick search by author) OK, I have a question.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-21-09 10:58 AM   #25 
   Hm. To get pizza, apparently. Adios, idiot. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-21-09 02:28 PM   #45 
   No, it couldn't  EstimatedProphet   May-21-09 11:48 AM   #30 
   ROFL, you haven't been reading here much, have you?  Fumesucker   May-21-09 12:09 PM   #33 
   K&R.  OnyxCollie   May-21-09 10:34 AM   #24 
   A lot of ideas there  Time for change   May-21-09 06:47 PM   #65 
   Excellent!  DeSwiss   May-21-09 11:15 AM   #26 
   Brilliant... but now what?  Bondor   May-21-09 11:20 AM   #28 
   For one thing, we should all pay very close attention to our representatives...  kjackson227   May-21-09 01:19 PM   #38 
   Great question  Time for change   May-21-09 07:00 PM   #66 
   Excellent post, TFC.  CrispyQ   May-21-09 11:27 AM   #29 
   Thank you CrispyQ  Time for change   May-21-09 07:04 PM   #67 
   essential information  NJCher   May-21-09 11:51 AM   #31 
   Thanks, TforC!  FredStembottom   May-21-09 12:06 PM   #32 
   Thank you so much Fred  Time for change   May-21-09 07:12 PM   #68 
   This is absolutely THE BEST POST I've ever read on the blog...  kjackson227   May-21-09 12:57 PM   #36 
   Thank you very much  Time for change   May-21-09 07:15 PM   #70 
   A BIG WELL DONE Dr. Dale  Larry Ogg   May-21-09 01:06 PM   #37 
   The above doesn’t work  Larry Ogg   May-21-09 07:13 PM   #69 
   Thank you Larry  Time for change   May-21-09 07:24 PM   #71 
   Is there any way to "lock" or "sticky" this thread??? I'd hate to lose it.  kjackson227   May-21-09 01:23 PM   #39 
   Hit "bookmark this thread" at the top left corner of the post.  OnyxCollie   May-21-09 01:40 PM   #40 
      Thank you!!!! I love it here, there's a lot of good information to be had.  kjackson227   May-21-09 02:00 PM   #43 
   Great post.  Dr.Phool   May-21-09 01:58 PM   #42 
   Thank you -- I highly recommend the book  Time for change   May-21-09 07:28 PM   #74 
      I'll start it right after Predator State.  Dr.Phool   May-22-09 12:40 AM   #89 
   yes, individuals with faulty personality structures are to blame for all our ills.  Hannah Bell   May-21-09 03:04 PM   #47 
   I address normal people in the last sentence of the OP  Time for change   May-21-09 07:29 PM   #75 
      I disagree with the entire premise. Social ills aren't caused by the warped personalities  Hannah Bell   May-21-09 09:22 PM   #81 
         Hitler didn't cause social ills?  Time for change   May-21-09 10:57 PM   #83 
            no. hitler's theoretically warped personality was not the cause of the ills of the 3rd reich,  Hannah Bell   May-22-09 12:25 AM   #88 
               What is your reason for believing that?  Time for change   May-22-09 08:24 AM   #91 
                  what is your reason for believing hitler's personal quirks caused the 3rd reich?  Hannah Bell   May-22-09 03:20 PM   #95 
                     They weren't personal "quirks"  Time for change   May-22-09 07:50 PM   #96 
                        yep, single-handedly, hitler genocided 6 million jews. cause of his authoritarian  Hannah Bell   May-23-09 07:05 AM   #101 
                           Where did I say he did it single-handedly?  Time for change   May-23-09 03:19 PM   #103 
                              you said there's no evidence the camps or the war would have occurred  Hannah Bell   May-23-09 03:38 PM   #104 
                                 That's completely wrong. Saying that there is no evidence that it would have happened without him  Time for change   May-23-09 11:54 PM   #106 
                                    then in what sense would it never have happened without him?  Hannah Bell   May-24-09 12:26 AM   #107 
                                       hitler came to power because he had the support & funding of a sector of the power elite, end of  Hannah Bell   May-24-09 12:38 AM   #108 
                                          "analyses of individual "bentness" are a circle-jerk leading no where"  clear eye   May-27-09 12:31 PM   #109 
   Another post that nails it. and another book for my reading list.  zeemike   May-21-09 04:04 PM   #49 
   Thank you zeemike  Time for change   May-21-09 07:32 PM   #76 
      It's primarily their lack of scruples.  clear eye   May-22-09 09:17 PM   #99 
   They are everywhere.  The Backlash Cometh   May-21-09 05:29 PM   #52 
   Yep, the following section perfectly describes Freepers  RJ Connors   May-21-09 05:36 PM   #53 
   Cons always accuse us of wanting a Mommy...  Cassandra   May-21-09 06:10 PM   #60 
   K&R  Enthusiast   May-21-09 06:12 PM   #61 
   thank you !  Locrian   May-21-09 06:41 PM   #64 
   Thank you -- I don't know what researcher you're referring to  Time for change   May-21-09 07:35 PM   #77 
      The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich  Locrian   May-22-09 09:16 AM   #92 
   Wonderful post. A couple of thoughts it brought to mind:  snot   May-21-09 07:26 PM   #72 
   Thank you -- I'm not sure about the genetic disposition  Time for change   May-21-09 07:40 PM   #78 
   If we understand our responsibilities properly,  snot   May-21-09 08:20 PM   #79 
   This is one of the most worthwhile posts I've seen in a while -- pls K&R, all!  snot   May-21-09 11:03 PM   #84 
   You say some things that are very true in my case  MikeH   May-22-09 10:18 PM   #100 
   Bookmarking...nice job!  AllyCat   May-21-09 07:26 PM   #73 
   Very true for the right but some mirror-looking is in order  DissedByBush   May-21-09 08:46 PM   #80 
   I don't follow the gun issue very closely  Time for change   May-21-09 10:54 PM   #82 
      Al Gore gives good examples  DissedByBush   May-21-09 11:34 PM   #86 
         Primarily the loudest voices warning us about global warming are the scientific experts  Time for change   May-21-09 11:58 PM   #87 
            Many scientists disagree  DissedByBush   May-23-09 11:25 AM   #102 
   Nice Writing, but......  EnoughOfThis   May-21-09 11:22 PM   #85 
   I'm not a Republican, so that means that I can't observe what they do?  Time for change   May-22-09 07:55 PM   #98 
   This REALLY nails it.  HillbillyBob   May-22-09 06:17 AM   #90 
   I have a couple Followers on my veteran's mailing list. They never  alfredo   May-22-09 02:13 PM   #94 
   Thomas Frank's "The Wrecking Crew"  clear eye   May-22-09 07:53 PM   #97 
   Alice Miller writes about a person’s childhood upbringing leading one into becoming “authoritarian"  MikeH   May-23-09 09:18 PM   #105 
 

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