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Reply #167: Absolutely, spot on. [View All]

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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
167. Absolutely, spot on.
I would hope that our leaders recognize this this hole we have dug for ourselves and do something about income levels.
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  -"Easy credit was substitute for higher wages...." kentuck  Apr-05-09 03:05 PM   #0 
  - Kick that shit up. That is it in a nutshell Kentuck. False growth disquising inflationary debt.  Monk06   Apr-05-09 03:07 PM   #1 
  - Agreed, k+r, n/t  ColbertWatcher   Apr-05-09 03:09 PM   #5 
  - It's so obvious and no amount of telling us not to believe our lying eyes will change it. eom  Hello_Kitty   Apr-05-09 03:08 PM   #2 
  - Seems pretty obvious. Especially with graphs showing decades' worth of information,  Deja Q   Apr-05-09 03:08 PM   #3 
  - k&r  aquart   Apr-05-09 03:09 PM   #4 
  - Perfect  malaise   Apr-05-09 03:11 PM   #6 
  - Marmar started a thread on this (C-SPAN2). I posted that remark. This is an incredible conversation.  chimpymustgo   Apr-05-09 03:15 PM   #7 
  - Spending other people's money instead of your own...  No.23   Apr-05-09 03:16 PM   #8 
  - I wouldn't say preferred MO so much as desperation MO.  hedgehog   Apr-05-09 03:23 PM   #13 
  - Debt is NOT the preferred MO for most consumers.  fasttense   Apr-06-09 06:53 AM   #124 
  - "What do Americans get for their tax dollars? "  raccoon   Apr-06-09 10:07 AM   #137 
     - Precisely  Sherman A1   Apr-07-09 02:55 AM   #191 
  - preferred.......vs more easily available/affordable? the financial giants ENCOURAGED this behavior.  sojourner   Apr-06-09 09:39 AM   #134 
  - Thom Hartmann has been making this argument for like 5 years.  Mojambo   Apr-05-09 03:17 PM   #9 
  - Exactly. Along with Ravi Batra....  Postman   Apr-06-09 08:24 AM   #130 
  - Yes, I just thought of the same thing. He should be on Obama's committee.  Peregrine Took   Apr-06-09 11:28 AM   #150 
  - I hope you don't seriously think that's even remotely possible. Not even Paul Volcker  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 01:19 PM   #171 
     - What if Hartmann was on CNN?  grahamhgreen   Apr-06-09 03:08 PM   #182 
     - Sorry, I don't understand your point.  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 03:21 PM   #184 
     - Thanks for this link. I wasn't aware of that  sabrina 1   Apr-06-09 05:09 PM   #187 
     - Obama works for the Owner Class, as does pretty much the entire Washington political class.  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 05:38 PM   #190 
     - gee, we never saw that coming did we sw?  Skittles   Apr-07-09 04:35 AM   #196 
        - Well, to be honest, you sussed out the con before I did.  scarletwoman   Apr-07-09 01:08 PM   #201 
  - Hmm? Hartman's been making the point for years?  LooseWilly   Apr-07-09 03:49 AM   #194 
     - Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. It certainly isn't rocket science, is it?  SammyWinstonJack   Apr-07-09 07:09 AM   #199 
  - Exactly right ...  The Traveler   Apr-05-09 03:17 PM   #10 
  - Right on target!  kentuck   Apr-05-09 03:19 PM   #11 
  - It's a vicious cycle because once you get into debt  malaise   Apr-05-09 03:26 PM   #16 
  - So true, which is why every time I hear of the "wide screen TV" credit card  Merlot   Apr-05-09 03:22 PM   #12 
  - So, basically....  kentuck   Apr-05-09 03:25 PM   #14 
  - Novel idea!  chimpymustgo   Apr-05-09 03:32 PM   #18 
  - But that won't happen without unions.  Fire1   Apr-05-09 08:45 PM   #74 
  - Thank you for pointing that out. (nt)  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 09:11 PM   #82 
  - Agreed  Sherman A1   Apr-07-09 02:57 AM   #192 
  - Who will tell the Monster on Wall Street?  midnight   Apr-06-09 06:51 AM   #123 
     - I will...  blindpig   Apr-06-09 11:32 AM   #152 
  - So, the people facing high medical bills should have realized that  hedgehog   Apr-05-09 03:26 PM   #15 
  - I think you and I are in agreement  Merlot   Apr-05-09 04:46 PM   #38 
  - Sorry , I shouldn't have been so irritable!  hedgehog   Apr-05-09 05:17 PM   #40 
  - No worries - I think we're all a little edgy right now!  Merlot   Apr-05-09 06:48 PM   #49 
  - It's all this responsibility/self-help bulshit.  blindpig   Apr-06-09 12:13 PM   #159 
  - its not just the medical bills..its the time off from work to recuperate..  xiamiam   Apr-06-09 12:39 PM   #163 
  - That's true...  CoffeeCat   Apr-05-09 03:35 PM   #20 
  - I wish our President was listening to these folks also...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 03:38 PM   #21 
  - Lots of people used 'em on their businesses  juno jones   Apr-06-09 04:06 AM   #118 
     - even here, people judge..and buy into the talking points handed down by the wall street pr firms  xiamiam   Apr-06-09 12:36 PM   #162 
        - Five months unemployed, husband who can no longer work, savings dwindling fast. What to do?  SammyWinstonJack   Apr-07-09 07:16 AM   #200 
  - Bingo!  Spazito   Apr-05-09 03:30 PM   #17 
  - It's really not that complicated...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 03:33 PM   #19 
  - You have hit right on the rest of the equation  destes   Apr-06-09 05:50 AM   #120 
     - Excellent post!  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 10:56 AM   #145 
  - It was not just easy credit.  TheBigotBasher   Apr-05-09 03:43 PM   #22 
  - And it certainly wasnt an accident.  OwnedByFerrets   Apr-05-09 09:04 PM   #79 
  - makes sense. nt  Mari333   Apr-05-09 03:46 PM   #23 
  - 1) Begin to off shore lower skilled jobs to low wage countries  daleo   Apr-05-09 03:47 PM   #24 
  - The good news is that once the algorithm completes, it reverses and you're on the up side.  patriotvoice   Apr-06-09 09:24 AM   #132 
     - Possibly  daleo   Apr-06-09 12:33 PM   #161 
     - I'm pretty sure that's what the Owner Class has in mind. It's largely in place already.  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 01:05 PM   #169 
        - Yes, that's the question  daleo   Apr-06-09 02:52 PM   #178 
           - Indeed. And here we are, it's our turn now. The pivot of history is upon us. (nt)  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 03:02 PM   #179 
     - Wow, algorithm cyclicism...  LooseWilly   Apr-07-09 04:15 AM   #195 
        - cyclicism or profit taking, by any other name......................  destes   Apr-07-09 06:33 AM   #197 
  - You can't have growth with stagnant wages  alcibiades_mystery   Apr-05-09 03:50 PM   #25 
  - Yep.  kentuck   Apr-05-09 03:53 PM   #26 
     - I do not know about you but they are going to get rude awakening  jwirr   Apr-05-09 08:04 PM   #61 
  - Easy credit is also a substitute for social benefits  DBoon   Apr-05-09 03:58 PM   #27 
  - "Mortgaging Tomorrow" is far more than a mere euphemism.  TahitiNut   Apr-05-09 04:01 PM   #28 
  - ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY ....  Trajan   Apr-05-09 04:01 PM   #29 
  - Well, of course. But I honestly thought most of us had figured this out years ago.  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 04:06 PM   #30 
  - Outstanding post, scarletwoman. The question is HOW. We are continuing on this bad path.  chimpymustgo   Apr-06-09 06:25 AM   #121 
     - Thank you. As for "how?" - I think we have to become guerrilla entrepeneurs.  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 12:48 PM   #165 
  - "what's the matter with credit?"  hfojvt   Apr-05-09 04:10 PM   #31 
  - The Grand Eraser  No.23   Apr-05-09 04:16 PM   #33 
     - I got in trouble teaching business class  hfojvt   Apr-05-09 06:13 PM   #43 
     - "defined a need as a want" -- that's just incredible! Who wrote the textbook, BOA?  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 08:41 PM   #71 
     - I hear you on that one  Skittles   Apr-06-09 12:13 AM   #112 
        - My dad calls it  tammywammy   Apr-06-09 12:49 AM   #114 
  - Hmmm, I seem to recall all the commercials for that new fangled Bank Americard  havocmom   Apr-05-09 04:11 PM   #32 
  - I saw Barbara Ehrenreich on C-Span a few months ago talking about her new book ---  jesus_of_suburbia   Apr-05-09 04:21 PM   #34 
  - She's right, but only up to a point  MadHound   Apr-05-09 04:25 PM   #35 
  - good point  Liberal_in_LA   Apr-05-09 06:46 PM   #48 
  - Don't forget that at the same time, the advertising/consumer culture was doing a masterful job of  LuckyLib   Apr-05-09 11:25 PM   #104 
  - company store  Hissyspit   Apr-05-09 04:35 PM   #36 
  - I was thinking the same exact thing. nt  earth mom   Apr-05-09 08:44 PM   #72 
  - Company Store is right - that is how it got started  csziggy   Apr-05-09 08:53 PM   #76 
  - In Some Cities, It May Have Even Helped People Get Access to Higher Paying Jobs  NashVegas   Apr-05-09 04:41 PM   #37 
  - Yup. In LA, the car you drive is a big deal for a lot of people.  Merlot   Apr-05-09 04:54 PM   #39 
  - Some years ago, a Forum Leader who had been all over...  Cassandra   Apr-06-09 08:16 AM   #129 
  - No Kidding!  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Apr-06-09 11:51 AM   #154 
  - Good point. n/t  pengillian101   Apr-06-09 12:44 AM   #113 
  - So, what's the solution??  kentuck   Apr-05-09 05:25 PM   #41 
  - For my family, the solution  babydollhead   Apr-05-09 06:11 PM   #42 
  - And are you naive enough to believe  TwixVoy   Apr-05-09 06:32 PM   #45 
     - Right now, more than you know are finding out they don't have a  Fire1   Apr-05-09 10:26 PM   #93 
  - Higher wages to start with  Raineyb   Apr-05-09 07:18 PM   #53 
  - I said the same thing a year ago  TwixVoy   Apr-05-09 06:28 PM   #44 
  - We're all serf's now  kohodog   Apr-05-09 06:43 PM   #46 
  - Good way to make us all into serfs.  JDPriestly   Apr-05-09 06:45 PM   #47 
  - I believe she nailed it.  Uncle Joe   Apr-05-09 06:54 PM   #50 
  - I am actually not so concerned about that.  TheBigotBasher   Apr-05-09 07:20 PM   #54 
     - I believe, if it hadn't been Jobs and Gates, it would've been someone else.  Uncle Joe   Apr-06-09 02:46 PM   #176 
  - That's something I can agree with. It's getting more difficult to agree  bluesmail   Apr-05-09 07:08 PM   #51 
  - K&R  leftstreet   Apr-05-09 07:10 PM   #52 
  - I can't remember her ever being wrong! Thanks for posting, K & R nt  glitch   Apr-05-09 07:38 PM   #55 
  - I have had a constant heartache about my grown son's future.  dixiegrrrrl   Apr-05-09 07:39 PM   #56 
  - That is so sickening. Just sad. Sad.  Fire1   Apr-05-09 10:32 PM   #94 
  - They both are close to 40 now. They are very smart, very good with money...  pengillian101   Apr-06-09 01:58 AM   #116 
  - and when the powers that be decide to all be "broke" at the same time  underpants   Apr-05-09 07:40 PM   #57 
  - And it worked fairly well until the manufacturers and bankers got  jwirr   Apr-05-09 07:46 PM   #58 
  - K&R n/t  slipslidingaway   Apr-05-09 07:50 PM   #59 
  - Real income  Citizen Worker   Apr-05-09 07:59 PM   #60 
  - Well said !  kentuck   Apr-05-09 08:15 PM   #63 
  - Great post.  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 09:09 PM   #81 
  - Great post.  raccoon   Apr-06-09 10:17 AM   #139 
  - Debt....the new Slavery!  femrap   Apr-05-09 08:13 PM   #62 
  - The banks own the people AND the government. Let's be clear on that. (nt)  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 08:38 PM   #69 
  - Becoming more obvious everyday!  Fire1   Apr-05-09 10:47 PM   #97 
  - I look at the gov't as  femrap   Apr-07-09 08:22 PM   #204 
  - In 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman'  sabrina 1   Apr-06-09 11:42 AM   #153 
     - Thank you for bringing up John Perkins. Very good post! (nt)  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 01:30 PM   #173 
     - You're welcome!  sabrina 1   Apr-06-09 05:12 PM   #188 
        - "I can't help thinking that these 'masters of the universe' viewed the US in the same way..."  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 05:32 PM   #189 
     - I remember when I saw the author of 'The  femrap   Apr-07-09 08:18 PM   #203 
        - Thank you femrap ~  sabrina 1   Apr-07-09 09:18 PM   #205 
  - This was the Greenspan plan. nt  Mithreal   Apr-05-09 08:24 PM   #64 
  - This is also why "freeing up credit markets" is a bunch of crap.  gorfle   Apr-05-09 08:28 PM   #65 
  - "People need more wealth, not more loans." Exactly! I'm with you, "freeing up credit markets" is BS  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 09:27 PM   #84 
  - But businesses and governments need credit in order to manage inflow and outflow.  pnwmom   Apr-05-09 09:50 PM   #91 
  - delete (dupe)  pnwmom   Apr-05-09 09:50 PM   #92 
  - The thing about B. Ehrenreich  KT2000   Apr-05-09 08:29 PM   #66 
  - she should, but  dcsmart   Apr-06-09 06:32 AM   #122 
     - Thanks for that  KT2000   Apr-06-09 12:01 PM   #156 
  - Thanks, Kentuck.....and "they" will tell us we coulda' said "NO!"  KoKo   Apr-05-09 08:32 PM   #67 
  - best fucking post of the week, if not the month. K&R  cliffordu   Apr-05-09 08:33 PM   #68 
  - Obama is propping this b.s. up and in doing so, proving he doesn't give a damn about wages  earth mom   Apr-05-09 08:41 PM   #70 
  - I don't know that I would be that harsh with Barack...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 08:50 PM   #75 
  - Wall Street and the banks OWN our government, our political class serves THEIR needs.  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 09:39 PM   #88 
     - Yes, and anyone who doesn't get that has been sleeping for the last 30 years.  closeupready   Apr-06-09 07:01 AM   #126 
  - Easy credit and cheap mports  TomClash   Apr-05-09 08:44 PM   #73 
  - her online blog  Mari333   Apr-05-09 08:56 PM   #77 
  - Thanks for that link  elizfeelinggreat   Apr-05-09 09:29 PM   #85 
  - No truer statement has ever been uttered.  OwnedByFerrets   Apr-05-09 09:03 PM   #78 
  - That is why it is so important that the Obama Administration not...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 09:07 PM   #80 
  - I remember telling my wife, years ago, that when this period of easy credit goes away  paparush   Apr-05-09 09:20 PM   #83 
  - What a beautiful and simple explanation of why we are in our current mess. Consumer greed.  trickyguy   Apr-05-09 09:33 PM   #86 
  - But consumer greed is harmless...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 09:36 PM   #87 
  - It was also THE only way to finance a small business for some  Carni   Apr-05-09 09:44 PM   #89 
  - Thank you, that's a very important point. I remember when that started happening.  scarletwoman   Apr-05-09 10:44 PM   #96 
  - I have heard of a few businesses having problems getting loans...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 11:19 PM   #101 
  - Independent Movies Were Built on Mastercard  NashVegas   Apr-06-09 06:59 AM   #125 
  - Very true  Chovexani   Apr-06-09 11:21 AM   #147 
  - Lot of People  NashVegas   Apr-06-09 12:07 PM   #157 
  - Serious question: Why was that? Why weren't there any actual investors?  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 12:18 PM   #160 
     - I Can Only Guess  NashVegas   Apr-06-09 01:04 PM   #168 
        - Thanks for your reply.  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 01:26 PM   #172 
  - what were the options really?...in business you have to push forward..hoping  xiamiam   Apr-06-09 12:46 PM   #164 
  - Yes,  quaker bill   Apr-05-09 09:48 PM   #90 
  - i just finished reading her book "Nickel and Dimed"  JI7   Apr-05-09 10:39 PM   #95 
  - Ehrenreich supported Nader in 2000...  hay rick   Apr-05-09 11:07 PM   #98 
  - Why?  Raineyb   Apr-06-09 03:30 PM   #185 
  - Earth shaking, I don't think so. People without have always borrowed to be buy what they  C......N......C   Apr-05-09 11:10 PM   #99 
  - But not at this level...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 11:14 PM   #100 
     - Right, so many borrowers have not been out of jobs before. Except  C......N......C   Apr-05-09 11:20 PM   #102 
     - But people are not laying off employees because they could not borrow money....  kentuck   Apr-05-09 11:28 PM   #106 
     - Borrow to buy stock.  C......N......C   Apr-05-09 11:25 PM   #105 
  - Thnks for that find! Here's what I was able to Google:  pnorman   Apr-05-09 11:22 PM   #103 
  - I've been saying this forever!  Duer 157099   Apr-05-09 11:33 PM   #107 
  - It's the obvious that folks tend to overlook...  kentuck   Apr-05-09 11:36 PM   #108 
  - the past three decades since "greed is good" and "conspicuous consumption" brainwashing  omega minimo   Apr-06-09 11:26 AM   #149 
  - Bam. There it is. Kick and Rec!!  Political Heretic   Apr-05-09 11:39 PM   #109 
  - Barbara Is Right - But Elizabeth Warren Should Get Some Credit (pun) for this point  Median Democrat   Apr-05-09 11:41 PM   #110 
  - right on  livefreest   Apr-06-09 12:07 AM   #111 
  - That would be a great start.  kentuck   Apr-06-09 12:58 AM   #115 
  - Barbara Ehrenreich is a muckraker first class  juno jones   Apr-06-09 03:59 AM   #117 
  - that's an economy built like a sand castle....just swept away by the tide  MyThoughts4   Apr-06-09 04:56 AM   #119 
  - K&R  pleah   Apr-06-09 07:50 AM   #127 
  - A consequence of  The Wizard   Apr-06-09 08:04 AM   #128 
  - It's an inconvenient truth...  kentuck   Apr-06-09 09:17 AM   #131 
  - Check out the April Harper's article "Infinite Debt"...  JHB   Apr-06-09 09:29 AM   #133 
  - It was an alignment of interests.  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-06-09 10:05 AM   #135 
  - Right on. I've been saying the same thing for years.  no name no slogan   Apr-06-09 10:06 AM   #136 
  - "Easy Credit Ripoffs"  guitar man   Apr-06-09 10:14 AM   #138 
  - Hee...I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had that song pop in his head.  tjwash   Apr-06-09 10:19 AM   #140 
     - yep, popped right up  guitar man   Apr-06-09 10:25 AM   #141 
  - a country of the rich, by the rich, for the rich,  Rosa Luxemburg   Apr-06-09 10:37 AM   #142 
  - K & R! nt  paparush   Apr-06-09 10:40 AM   #143 
  - Hook, line, sinker meet hungry fish.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Apr-06-09 10:44 AM   #144 
  - Very true. * is to blame for the crisis he has put us into.  Xenotime   Apr-06-09 11:08 AM   #146 
  - This has been in the making for over 30 years, and has been aided & abetted by both parties. (nt)  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 01:47 PM   #174 
  - The first time I saw someone buy groceries with a credit card  mikehiggins   Apr-06-09 11:24 AM   #148 
  - K&R! Exactly right!  Stargazer09   Apr-06-09 11:32 AM   #151 
  - It's true: we had 'virtual income' via second mortgages and credit cards. n/t  antimatter98   Apr-06-09 11:54 AM   #155 
  - I never got caught in that trap  prolesunited   Apr-06-09 12:08 PM   #158 
  - And those folks still OK have been very, very lucky. That luck could change. Any minute.  LuckyLib   Apr-06-09 12:50 PM   #166 
  - sorry...there are a lot of us in this same situation...for whatever reason..  xiamiam   Apr-06-09 01:13 PM   #170 
  - Absolutely, spot on.  wisteria   Apr-06-09 12:52 PM   #167 
  - She is absolutely right  Sherman A1   Apr-06-09 02:03 PM   #175 
  - Organize consumers and workers. Tear this MoFu down!  RedCloud   Apr-06-09 02:46 PM   #177 
  - Exactly. The problem is, there are still too many people willing to believe that their "leaders" are  scarletwoman   Apr-06-09 03:16 PM   #183 
  - my goodness, if that doesn't say it all - easy credit in EXCHANGE for giving better wages - it's  Divine Discontent   Apr-06-09 03:05 PM   #180 
  - 100% true - MORE PAY NOT MORE CREDIT!  grahamhgreen   Apr-06-09 03:06 PM   #181 
  - Well duh...  Kansas Wyatt   Apr-06-09 03:38 PM   #186 
  - Ehrenreich also knows that wives bringing in a second income kept the middle class going as well...  Hekate   Apr-07-09 03:35 AM   #193 
  - I'm lucky...  sendero   Apr-07-09 07:00 AM   #198 
  - Typical corporate management. Keep the little people in debt,  anonymous171   Apr-07-09 01:19 PM   #202 
 

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