| -"Easy credit was substitute for higher wages...." |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:05 PM |
#0 |
 -
Kick that shit up. That is it in a nutshell Kentuck. False growth disquising inflationary debt. |
Monk06 |
Apr-05-09 03:07 PM |
#1 |
  -
Agreed, k+r, n/t |
ColbertWatcher |
Apr-05-09 03:09 PM |
#5 |
| -
It's so obvious and no amount of telling us not to believe our lying eyes will change it. eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-05-09 03:08 PM |
#2 |
| -
Seems pretty obvious. Especially with graphs showing decades' worth of information, |
Deja Q |
Apr-05-09 03:08 PM |
#3 |
| -
k&r |
aquart |
Apr-05-09 03:09 PM |
#4 |
| -
Perfect |
malaise |
Apr-05-09 03:11 PM |
#6 |
| -
Marmar started a thread on this (C-SPAN2). I posted that remark. This is an incredible conversation. |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-05-09 03:15 PM |
#7 |
| -
Spending other people's money instead of your own... |
No.23 |
Apr-05-09 03:16 PM |
#8 |
| -
I wouldn't say preferred MO so much as desperation MO. |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 03:23 PM |
#13 |
| -
Debt is NOT the preferred MO for most consumers. |
fasttense |
Apr-06-09 06:53 AM |
#124 |
| -
"What do Americans get for their tax dollars? " |
raccoon |
Apr-06-09 10:07 AM |
#137 |
| -
Precisely |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-07-09 02:55 AM |
#191 |
| -
preferred.......vs more easily available/affordable? the financial giants ENCOURAGED this behavior. |
sojourner |
Apr-06-09 09:39 AM |
#134 |
| -
Thom Hartmann has been making this argument for like 5 years. |
Mojambo |
Apr-05-09 03:17 PM |
#9 |
| -
Exactly. Along with Ravi Batra.... |
Postman |
Apr-06-09 08:24 AM |
#130 |
| -
Yes, I just thought of the same thing. He should be on Obama's committee. |
Peregrine Took |
Apr-06-09 11:28 AM |
#150 |
| -
I hope you don't seriously think that's even remotely possible. Not even Paul Volcker |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:19 PM |
#171 |
| -
What if Hartmann was on CNN? |
grahamhgreen |
Apr-06-09 03:08 PM |
#182 |
| -
Sorry, I don't understand your point. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:21 PM |
#184 |
| -
Thanks for this link. I wasn't aware of that |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 05:09 PM |
#187 |
| -
Obama works for the Owner Class, as does pretty much the entire Washington political class. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 05:38 PM |
#190 |
| -
gee, we never saw that coming did we sw? |
Skittles |
Apr-07-09 04:35 AM |
#196 |
| -
Well, to be honest, you sussed out the con before I did. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-07-09 01:08 PM |
#201 |
| -
Hmm? Hartman's been making the point for years? |
LooseWilly |
Apr-07-09 03:49 AM |
#194 |
| -
Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. It certainly isn't rocket science, is it? |
SammyWinstonJack |
Apr-07-09 07:09 AM |
#199 |
| -
Exactly right ... |
The Traveler |
Apr-05-09 03:17 PM |
#10 |
| -
Right on target! |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:19 PM |
#11 |
| -
It's a vicious cycle because once you get into debt |
malaise |
Apr-05-09 03:26 PM |
#16 |
| -
So true, which is why every time I hear of the "wide screen TV" credit card |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 03:22 PM |
#12 |
| -
So, basically.... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:25 PM |
#14 |
| -
Novel idea! |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-05-09 03:32 PM |
#18 |
| -
But that won't happen without unions. |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 08:45 PM |
#74 |
| -
Thank you for pointing that out. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:11 PM |
#82 |
| -
Agreed |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-07-09 02:57 AM |
#192 |
| -
Who will tell the Monster on Wall Street? |
midnight |
Apr-06-09 06:51 AM |
#123 |
| -
I will... |
blindpig |
Apr-06-09 11:32 AM |
#152 |
| -
So, the people facing high medical bills should have realized that |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 03:26 PM |
#15 |
| -
I think you and I are in agreement |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 04:46 PM |
#38 |
| -
Sorry , I shouldn't have been so irritable! |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 05:17 PM |
#40 |
| -
No worries - I think we're all a little edgy right now! |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 06:48 PM |
#49 |
| -
It's all this responsibility/self-help bulshit. |
blindpig |
Apr-06-09 12:13 PM |
#159 |
| -
its not just the medical bills..its the time off from work to recuperate.. |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:39 PM |
#163 |
| -
That's true... |
CoffeeCat |
Apr-05-09 03:35 PM |
#20 |
| -
I wish our President was listening to these folks also... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:38 PM |
#21 |
| -
Lots of people used 'em on their businesses |
juno jones |
Apr-06-09 04:06 AM |
#118 |
| -
even here, people judge..and buy into the talking points handed down by the wall street pr firms |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:36 PM |
#162 |
| -
Five months unemployed, husband who can no longer work, savings dwindling fast. What to do? |
SammyWinstonJack |
Apr-07-09 07:16 AM |
#200 |
| -
Bingo! |
Spazito |
Apr-05-09 03:30 PM |
#17 |
| -
It's really not that complicated... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:33 PM |
#19 |
| -
You have hit right on the rest of the equation |
destes |
Apr-06-09 05:50 AM |
#120 |
| -
Excellent post! |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 10:56 AM |
#145 |
| -
It was not just easy credit. |
TheBigotBasher |
Apr-05-09 03:43 PM |
#22 |
| -
And it certainly wasnt an accident. |
OwnedByFerrets |
Apr-05-09 09:04 PM |
#79 |
| -
makes sense. nt |
Mari333 |
Apr-05-09 03:46 PM |
#23 |
| -
1) Begin to off shore lower skilled jobs to low wage countries |
daleo |
Apr-05-09 03:47 PM |
#24 |
| -
The good news is that once the algorithm completes, it reverses and you're on the up side. |
patriotvoice |
Apr-06-09 09:24 AM |
#132 |
| -
Possibly |
daleo |
Apr-06-09 12:33 PM |
#161 |
| -
I'm pretty sure that's what the Owner Class has in mind. It's largely in place already. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:05 PM |
#169 |
| -
Yes, that's the question |
daleo |
Apr-06-09 02:52 PM |
#178 |
| -
Indeed. And here we are, it's our turn now. The pivot of history is upon us. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:02 PM |
#179 |
| -
Wow, algorithm cyclicism... |
LooseWilly |
Apr-07-09 04:15 AM |
#195 |
| -
cyclicism or profit taking, by any other name...................... |
destes |
Apr-07-09 06:33 AM |
#197 |
| -
You can't have growth with stagnant wages |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-05-09 03:50 PM |
#25 |
| -
Yep. |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:53 PM |
#26 |
| -
I do not know about you but they are going to get rude awakening |
jwirr |
Apr-05-09 08:04 PM |
#61 |
| -
Easy credit is also a substitute for social benefits |
DBoon |
Apr-05-09 03:58 PM |
#27 |
| -
"Mortgaging Tomorrow" is far more than a mere euphemism. |
TahitiNut |
Apr-05-09 04:01 PM |
#28 |
| -
ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY .... |
Trajan |
Apr-05-09 04:01 PM |
#29 |
| -
Well, of course. But I honestly thought most of us had figured this out years ago. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 04:06 PM |
#30 |
| -
Outstanding post, scarletwoman. The question is HOW. We are continuing on this bad path. |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-06-09 06:25 AM |
#121 |
| -
Thank you. As for "how?" - I think we have to become guerrilla entrepeneurs. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 12:48 PM |
#165 |
| -
"what's the matter with credit?" |
hfojvt |
Apr-05-09 04:10 PM |
#31 |
| -
The Grand Eraser |
No.23 |
Apr-05-09 04:16 PM |
#33 |
| -
I got in trouble teaching business class |
hfojvt |
Apr-05-09 06:13 PM |
#43 |
| -
"defined a need as a want" -- that's just incredible! Who wrote the textbook, BOA? |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 08:41 PM |
#71 |
| -
I hear you on that one |
Skittles |
Apr-06-09 12:13 AM |
#112 |
| -
My dad calls it |
tammywammy |
Apr-06-09 12:49 AM |
#114 |
| -
Hmmm, I seem to recall all the commercials for that new fangled Bank Americard |
havocmom |
Apr-05-09 04:11 PM |
#32 |
| -
I saw Barbara Ehrenreich on C-Span a few months ago talking about her new book --- |
jesus_of_suburbia |
Apr-05-09 04:21 PM |
#34 |
| -
She's right, but only up to a point |
MadHound |
Apr-05-09 04:25 PM |
#35 |
| -
good point |
Liberal_in_LA |
Apr-05-09 06:46 PM |
#48 |
| -
Don't forget that at the same time, the advertising/consumer culture was doing a masterful job of |
LuckyLib |
Apr-05-09 11:25 PM |
#104 |
| -
company store |
Hissyspit |
Apr-05-09 04:35 PM |
#36 |
| -
I was thinking the same exact thing. nt |
earth mom |
Apr-05-09 08:44 PM |
#72 |
| -
Company Store is right - that is how it got started |
csziggy |
Apr-05-09 08:53 PM |
#76 |
| -
In Some Cities, It May Have Even Helped People Get Access to Higher Paying Jobs |
NashVegas |
Apr-05-09 04:41 PM |
#37 |
| -
Yup. In LA, the car you drive is a big deal for a lot of people. |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 04:54 PM |
#39 |
| -
Some years ago, a Forum Leader who had been all over... |
Cassandra |
Apr-06-09 08:16 AM |
#129 |
| -
No Kidding! |
Sen. Walter Sobchak |
Apr-06-09 11:51 AM |
#154 |
| -
Good point. n/t |
pengillian101 |
Apr-06-09 12:44 AM |
#113 |
| -
So, what's the solution?? |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 05:25 PM |
#41 |
| -
For my family, the solution |
babydollhead |
Apr-05-09 06:11 PM |
#42 |
| -
And are you naive enough to believe |
TwixVoy |
Apr-05-09 06:32 PM |
#45 |
| -
Right now, more than you know are finding out they don't have a |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:26 PM |
#93 |
| -
Higher wages to start with |
Raineyb |
Apr-05-09 07:18 PM |
#53 |
| -
I said the same thing a year ago |
TwixVoy |
Apr-05-09 06:28 PM |
#44 |
| -
We're all serf's now |
kohodog |
Apr-05-09 06:43 PM |
#46 |
| -
Good way to make us all into serfs. |
JDPriestly |
Apr-05-09 06:45 PM |
#47 |
| -
I believe she nailed it. |
Uncle Joe |
Apr-05-09 06:54 PM |
#50 |
| -
I am actually not so concerned about that. |
TheBigotBasher |
Apr-05-09 07:20 PM |
#54 |
| -
I believe, if it hadn't been Jobs and Gates, it would've been someone else. |
Uncle Joe |
Apr-06-09 02:46 PM |
#176 |
| -
That's something I can agree with. It's getting more difficult to agree |
bluesmail |
Apr-05-09 07:08 PM |
#51 |
| -
K&R |
leftstreet |
Apr-05-09 07:10 PM |
#52 |
| -
I can't remember her ever being wrong! Thanks for posting, K & R nt |
glitch |
Apr-05-09 07:38 PM |
#55 |
| -
I have had a constant heartache about my grown son's future. |
dixiegrrrrl |
Apr-05-09 07:39 PM |
#56 |
| -
That is so sickening. Just sad. Sad. |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:32 PM |
#94 |
| -
They both are close to 40 now. They are very smart, very good with money... |
pengillian101 |
Apr-06-09 01:58 AM |
#116 |
| -
and when the powers that be decide to all be "broke" at the same time |
underpants |
Apr-05-09 07:40 PM |
#57 |
| -
And it worked fairly well until the manufacturers and bankers got |
jwirr |
Apr-05-09 07:46 PM |
#58 |
| -
K&R n/t |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-05-09 07:50 PM |
#59 |
| -
Real income |
Citizen Worker |
Apr-05-09 07:59 PM |
#60 |
| -
Well said ! |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 08:15 PM |
#63 |
| -
Great post. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:09 PM |
#81 |
| -
Great post. |
raccoon |
Apr-06-09 10:17 AM |
#139 |
| -
Debt....the new Slavery! |
femrap |
Apr-05-09 08:13 PM |
#62 |
| -
The banks own the people AND the government. Let's be clear on that. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 08:38 PM |
#69 |
| -
Becoming more obvious everyday! |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:47 PM |
#97 |
| -
I look at the gov't as |
femrap |
Apr-07-09 08:22 PM |
#204 |
| -
In 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 11:42 AM |
#153 |
| -
Thank you for bringing up John Perkins. Very good post! (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:30 PM |
#173 |
| -
You're welcome! |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 05:12 PM |
#188 |
| -
"I can't help thinking that these 'masters of the universe' viewed the US in the same way..." |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 05:32 PM |
#189 |
| -
I remember when I saw the author of 'The |
femrap |
Apr-07-09 08:18 PM |
#203 |
| -
Thank you femrap ~ |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-07-09 09:18 PM |
#205 |
| -
This was the Greenspan plan. nt |
Mithreal |
Apr-05-09 08:24 PM |
#64 |
| -
This is also why "freeing up credit markets" is a bunch of crap. |
gorfle |
Apr-05-09 08:28 PM |
#65 |
| -
"People need more wealth, not more loans." Exactly! I'm with you, "freeing up credit markets" is BS |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:27 PM |
#84 |
| -
But businesses and governments need credit in order to manage inflow and outflow. |
pnwmom |
Apr-05-09 09:50 PM |
#91 |
| -
delete (dupe) |
pnwmom |
Apr-05-09 09:50 PM |
#92 |
| -
The thing about B. Ehrenreich |
KT2000 |
Apr-05-09 08:29 PM |
#66 |
| -
she should, but |
dcsmart |
Apr-06-09 06:32 AM |
#122 |
| -
Thanks for that |
KT2000 |
Apr-06-09 12:01 PM |
#156 |
| -
Thanks, Kentuck.....and "they" will tell us we coulda' said "NO!" |
KoKo |
Apr-05-09 08:32 PM |
#67 |
| -
best fucking post of the week, if not the month. K&R |
cliffordu |
Apr-05-09 08:33 PM |
#68 |
| -
Obama is propping this b.s. up and in doing so, proving he doesn't give a damn about wages |
earth mom |
Apr-05-09 08:41 PM |
#70 |
| -
I don't know that I would be that harsh with Barack... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 08:50 PM |
#75 |
| -
Wall Street and the banks OWN our government, our political class serves THEIR needs. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:39 PM |
#88 |
| -
Yes, and anyone who doesn't get that has been sleeping for the last 30 years. |
closeupready |
Apr-06-09 07:01 AM |
#126 |
| -
Easy credit and cheap mports |
TomClash |
Apr-05-09 08:44 PM |
#73 |
| -
her online blog |
Mari333 |
Apr-05-09 08:56 PM |
#77 |
| -
Thanks for that link |
elizfeelinggreat |
Apr-05-09 09:29 PM |
#85 |
| -
No truer statement has ever been uttered. |
OwnedByFerrets |
Apr-05-09 09:03 PM |
#78 |
| -
That is why it is so important that the Obama Administration not... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 09:07 PM |
#80 |
| -
I remember telling my wife, years ago, that when this period of easy credit goes away |
paparush |
Apr-05-09 09:20 PM |
#83 |
| -
What a beautiful and simple explanation of why we are in our current mess. Consumer greed. |
trickyguy |
Apr-05-09 09:33 PM |
#86 |
| -
But consumer greed is harmless... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 09:36 PM |
#87 |
| -
It was also THE only way to finance a small business for some |
Carni |
Apr-05-09 09:44 PM |
#89 |
| -
Thank you, that's a very important point. I remember when that started happening. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 10:44 PM |
#96 |
| -
I have heard of a few businesses having problems getting loans... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:19 PM |
#101 |
| -
Independent Movies Were Built on Mastercard |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 06:59 AM |
#125 |
| -
Very true |
Chovexani |
Apr-06-09 11:21 AM |
#147 |
| -
Lot of People |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 12:07 PM |
#157 |
| -
Serious question: Why was that? Why weren't there any actual investors? |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 12:18 PM |
#160 |
| -
I Can Only Guess |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 01:04 PM |
#168 |
| -
Thanks for your reply. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:26 PM |
#172 |
| -
what were the options really?...in business you have to push forward..hoping |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:46 PM |
#164 |
| -
Yes, |
quaker bill |
Apr-05-09 09:48 PM |
#90 |
| -
i just finished reading her book "Nickel and Dimed" |
JI7 |
Apr-05-09 10:39 PM |
#95 |
| -
Ehrenreich supported Nader in 2000... |
hay rick |
Apr-05-09 11:07 PM |
#98 |
| -
Why? |
Raineyb |
Apr-06-09 03:30 PM |
#185 |
| -
Earth shaking, I don't think so. People without have always borrowed to be buy what they |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:10 PM |
#99 |
| -
But not at this level... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:14 PM |
#100 |
| -
Right, so many borrowers have not been out of jobs before. Except |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:20 PM |
#102 |
| -
But people are not laying off employees because they could not borrow money.... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:28 PM |
#106 |
| -
Borrow to buy stock. |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:25 PM |
#105 |
| -
Thnks for that find! Here's what I was able to Google: |
pnorman |
Apr-05-09 11:22 PM |
#103 |
| -
I've been saying this forever! |
Duer 157099 |
Apr-05-09 11:33 PM |
#107 |
| -
It's the obvious that folks tend to overlook... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:36 PM |
#108 |
| -
the past three decades since "greed is good" and "conspicuous consumption" brainwashing |
omega minimo |
Apr-06-09 11:26 AM |
#149 |
| -
Bam. There it is. Kick and Rec!! |
Political Heretic |
Apr-05-09 11:39 PM |
#109 |
| -
Barbara Is Right - But Elizabeth Warren Should Get Some Credit (pun) for this point |
Median Democrat |
Apr-05-09 11:41 PM |
#110 |
| -
right on |
livefreest |
Apr-06-09 12:07 AM |
#111 |
| -
That would be a great start. |
kentuck |
Apr-06-09 12:58 AM |
#115 |
| -
Barbara Ehrenreich is a muckraker first class |
juno jones |
Apr-06-09 03:59 AM |
#117 |
| -
that's an economy built like a sand castle....just swept away by the tide |
MyThoughts4 |
Apr-06-09 04:56 AM |
#119 |
| -
K&R |
pleah |
Apr-06-09 07:50 AM |
#127 |
| -
A consequence of |
The Wizard |
Apr-06-09 08:04 AM |
#128 |
| -
It's an inconvenient truth... |
kentuck |
Apr-06-09 09:17 AM |
#131 |
| -
Check out the April Harper's article "Infinite Debt"... |
JHB |
Apr-06-09 09:29 AM |
#133 |
| -
It was an alignment of interests. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Apr-06-09 10:05 AM |
#135 |
| -
Right on. I've been saying the same thing for years. |
no name no slogan |
Apr-06-09 10:06 AM |
#136 |
| -
"Easy Credit Ripoffs" |
guitar man |
Apr-06-09 10:14 AM |
#138 |
| -
Hee...I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had that song pop in his head. |
tjwash |
Apr-06-09 10:19 AM |
#140 |
| -
yep, popped right up |
guitar man |
Apr-06-09 10:25 AM |
#141 |
| -
a country of the rich, by the rich, for the rich, |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Apr-06-09 10:37 AM |
#142 |
| -
K & R! nt |
paparush |
Apr-06-09 10:40 AM |
#143 |
| -
Hook, line, sinker meet hungry fish. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Apr-06-09 10:44 AM |
#144 |
| -
Very true. * is to blame for the crisis he has put us into. |
Xenotime |
Apr-06-09 11:08 AM |
#146 |
| -
This has been in the making for over 30 years, and has been aided & abetted by both parties. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:47 PM |
#174 |
| -
The first time I saw someone buy groceries with a credit card |
mikehiggins |
Apr-06-09 11:24 AM |
#148 |
| -
K&R! Exactly right! |
Stargazer09 |
Apr-06-09 11:32 AM |
#151 |
| -
It's true: we had 'virtual income' via second mortgages and credit cards. n/t |
antimatter98 |
Apr-06-09 11:54 AM |
#155 |
| -
I never got caught in that trap |
prolesunited |
Apr-06-09 12:08 PM |
#158 |
| -
And those folks still OK have been very, very lucky. That luck could change. Any minute. |
LuckyLib |
Apr-06-09 12:50 PM |
#166 |
| -
sorry...there are a lot of us in this same situation...for whatever reason.. |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 01:13 PM |
#170 |
| -
Absolutely, spot on. |
wisteria |
Apr-06-09 12:52 PM |
#167 |
| -
She is absolutely right |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-06-09 02:03 PM |
#175 |
| -
Organize consumers and workers. Tear this MoFu down! |
RedCloud |
Apr-06-09 02:46 PM |
#177 |
| -
Exactly. The problem is, there are still too many people willing to believe that their "leaders" are |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:16 PM |
#183 |
| -
my goodness, if that doesn't say it all - easy credit in EXCHANGE for giving better wages - it's |
Divine Discontent |
Apr-06-09 03:05 PM |
#180 |
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100% true - MORE PAY NOT MORE CREDIT! |
grahamhgreen |
Apr-06-09 03:06 PM |
#181 |
| -
Well duh... |
Kansas Wyatt |
Apr-06-09 03:38 PM |
#186 |
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Ehrenreich also knows that wives bringing in a second income kept the middle class going as well... |
Hekate |
Apr-07-09 03:35 AM |
#193 |
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I'm lucky... |
sendero |
Apr-07-09 07:00 AM |
#198 |
| -
Typical corporate management. Keep the little people in debt, |
anonymous171 |
Apr-07-09 01:19 PM |
#202 |
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