| 56. I have had a constant heartache about my grown son's future. |
|
They both are close to 40 now. They are very smart, very good with money, and until recently they still believed all they had to do was find the "right job" in order to "get ahead". They worked hard, stayed out of debt, got and lost jobs as the economy tanked in 1991 and 2001 and 2008, and have no hope of ever getting out of the rut, the system no longer works that way. They are surviving ok, "getting along" ok, they have Top Ramen weeks and then things improve to hamburger and potatoes weeks, they drive 12 year old cars, one is working as a CAD operator for the one remaining company in his medium size town and he is making a whopping 12.00 an hour. Fortunately, they are both single and have no intentions of marriage.
I bought one son a sweater for X-mas...his voice was cracking when he told me it was the first new clothes he had gotten in 5 years. He says now even the thrift stores have lousy pickings. My heart is breaking for them.
I am furious down to the bottom of my feet towards the government and the "system" and the same o same o games being played in DC.
|
| -"Easy credit was substitute for higher wages...." |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:05 PM |
#0 |
-
Kick that shit up. That is it in a nutshell Kentuck. False growth disquising inflationary debt. |
Monk06 |
Apr-05-09 03:07 PM |
#1 |
 -
Agreed, k+r, n/t |
ColbertWatcher |
Apr-05-09 03:09 PM |
#5 |
-
It's so obvious and no amount of telling us not to believe our lying eyes will change it. eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-05-09 03:08 PM |
#2 |
-
Seems pretty obvious. Especially with graphs showing decades' worth of information, |
Deja Q |
Apr-05-09 03:08 PM |
#3 |
-
k&r |
aquart |
Apr-05-09 03:09 PM |
#4 |
-
Perfect |
malaise |
Apr-05-09 03:11 PM |
#6 |
-
Marmar started a thread on this (C-SPAN2). I posted that remark. This is an incredible conversation. |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-05-09 03:15 PM |
#7 |
-
Spending other people's money instead of your own... |
No.23 |
Apr-05-09 03:16 PM |
#8 |
 -
I wouldn't say preferred MO so much as desperation MO. |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 03:23 PM |
#13 |
 -
Debt is NOT the preferred MO for most consumers. |
fasttense |
Apr-06-09 06:53 AM |
#124 |
  -
"What do Americans get for their tax dollars? " |
raccoon |
Apr-06-09 10:07 AM |
#137 |
 -
Precisely |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-07-09 02:55 AM |
#191 |
 -
preferred.......vs more easily available/affordable? the financial giants ENCOURAGED this behavior. |
sojourner |
Apr-06-09 09:39 AM |
#134 |
-
Thom Hartmann has been making this argument for like 5 years. |
Mojambo |
Apr-05-09 03:17 PM |
#9 |
 -
Exactly. Along with Ravi Batra.... |
Postman |
Apr-06-09 08:24 AM |
#130 |
 -
Yes, I just thought of the same thing. He should be on Obama's committee. |
Peregrine Took |
Apr-06-09 11:28 AM |
#150 |
  -
I hope you don't seriously think that's even remotely possible. Not even Paul Volcker |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:19 PM |
#171 |
 -
What if Hartmann was on CNN? |
grahamhgreen |
Apr-06-09 03:08 PM |
#182 |
  -
Sorry, I don't understand your point. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:21 PM |
#184 |
 -
Thanks for this link. I wasn't aware of that |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 05:09 PM |
#187 |
  -
Obama works for the Owner Class, as does pretty much the entire Washington political class. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 05:38 PM |
#190 |
 -
gee, we never saw that coming did we sw? |
Skittles |
Apr-07-09 04:35 AM |
#196 |
 -
Well, to be honest, you sussed out the con before I did. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-07-09 01:08 PM |
#201 |
 -
Hmm? Hartman's been making the point for years? |
LooseWilly |
Apr-07-09 03:49 AM |
#194 |
-
Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. It certainly isn't rocket science, is it? |
SammyWinstonJack |
Apr-07-09 07:09 AM |
#199 |
-
Exactly right ... |
The Traveler |
Apr-05-09 03:17 PM |
#10 |
 -
Right on target! |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:19 PM |
#11 |
 -
It's a vicious cycle because once you get into debt |
malaise |
Apr-05-09 03:26 PM |
#16 |
-
So true, which is why every time I hear of the "wide screen TV" credit card |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 03:22 PM |
#12 |
 -
So, basically.... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:25 PM |
#14 |
  -
Novel idea! |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-05-09 03:32 PM |
#18 |
  -
But that won't happen without unions. |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 08:45 PM |
#74 |
   -
Thank you for pointing that out. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:11 PM |
#82 |
   -
Agreed |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-07-09 02:57 AM |
#192 |
  -
Who will tell the Monster on Wall Street? |
midnight |
Apr-06-09 06:51 AM |
#123 |
 -
I will... |
blindpig |
Apr-06-09 11:32 AM |
#152 |
 -
So, the people facing high medical bills should have realized that |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 03:26 PM |
#15 |
  -
I think you and I are in agreement |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 04:46 PM |
#38 |
   -
Sorry , I shouldn't have been so irritable! |
hedgehog |
Apr-05-09 05:17 PM |
#40 |
    -
No worries - I think we're all a little edgy right now! |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 06:48 PM |
#49 |
   -
It's all this responsibility/self-help bulshit. |
blindpig |
Apr-06-09 12:13 PM |
#159 |
  -
its not just the medical bills..its the time off from work to recuperate.. |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:39 PM |
#163 |
 -
That's true... |
CoffeeCat |
Apr-05-09 03:35 PM |
#20 |
  -
I wish our President was listening to these folks also... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:38 PM |
#21 |
 -
Lots of people used 'em on their businesses |
juno jones |
Apr-06-09 04:06 AM |
#118 |
-
even here, people judge..and buy into the talking points handed down by the wall street pr firms |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:36 PM |
#162 |
-
Five months unemployed, husband who can no longer work, savings dwindling fast. What to do? |
SammyWinstonJack |
Apr-07-09 07:16 AM |
#200 |
-
Bingo! |
Spazito |
Apr-05-09 03:30 PM |
#17 |
-
It's really not that complicated... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:33 PM |
#19 |
 -
You have hit right on the rest of the equation |
destes |
Apr-06-09 05:50 AM |
#120 |
-
Excellent post! |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 10:56 AM |
#145 |
-
It was not just easy credit. |
TheBigotBasher |
Apr-05-09 03:43 PM |
#22 |
 -
And it certainly wasnt an accident. |
OwnedByFerrets |
Apr-05-09 09:04 PM |
#79 |
-
makes sense. nt |
Mari333 |
Apr-05-09 03:46 PM |
#23 |
-
1) Begin to off shore lower skilled jobs to low wage countries |
daleo |
Apr-05-09 03:47 PM |
#24 |
 -
The good news is that once the algorithm completes, it reverses and you're on the up side. |
patriotvoice |
Apr-06-09 09:24 AM |
#132 |
-
Possibly |
daleo |
Apr-06-09 12:33 PM |
#161 |
 -
I'm pretty sure that's what the Owner Class has in mind. It's largely in place already. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:05 PM |
#169 |
-
Yes, that's the question |
daleo |
Apr-06-09 02:52 PM |
#178 |
-
Indeed. And here we are, it's our turn now. The pivot of history is upon us. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:02 PM |
#179 |
-
Wow, algorithm cyclicism... |
LooseWilly |
Apr-07-09 04:15 AM |
#195 |
-
cyclicism or profit taking, by any other name...................... |
destes |
Apr-07-09 06:33 AM |
#197 |
-
You can't have growth with stagnant wages |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-05-09 03:50 PM |
#25 |
 -
Yep. |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 03:53 PM |
#26 |
-
I do not know about you but they are going to get rude awakening |
jwirr |
Apr-05-09 08:04 PM |
#61 |
-
Easy credit is also a substitute for social benefits |
DBoon |
Apr-05-09 03:58 PM |
#27 |
-
"Mortgaging Tomorrow" is far more than a mere euphemism. |
TahitiNut |
Apr-05-09 04:01 PM |
#28 |
-
ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY .... |
Trajan |
Apr-05-09 04:01 PM |
#29 |
-
Well, of course. But I honestly thought most of us had figured this out years ago. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 04:06 PM |
#30 |
 -
Outstanding post, scarletwoman. The question is HOW. We are continuing on this bad path. |
chimpymustgo |
Apr-06-09 06:25 AM |
#121 |
-
Thank you. As for "how?" - I think we have to become guerrilla entrepeneurs. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 12:48 PM |
#165 |
-
"what's the matter with credit?" |
hfojvt |
Apr-05-09 04:10 PM |
#31 |
 -
The Grand Eraser |
No.23 |
Apr-05-09 04:16 PM |
#33 |
-
I got in trouble teaching business class |
hfojvt |
Apr-05-09 06:13 PM |
#43 |
 -
"defined a need as a want" -- that's just incredible! Who wrote the textbook, BOA? |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 08:41 PM |
#71 |
-
I hear you on that one |
Skittles |
Apr-06-09 12:13 AM |
#112 |
-
My dad calls it |
tammywammy |
Apr-06-09 12:49 AM |
#114 |
-
Hmmm, I seem to recall all the commercials for that new fangled Bank Americard |
havocmom |
Apr-05-09 04:11 PM |
#32 |
-
I saw Barbara Ehrenreich on C-Span a few months ago talking about her new book --- |
jesus_of_suburbia |
Apr-05-09 04:21 PM |
#34 |
-
She's right, but only up to a point |
MadHound |
Apr-05-09 04:25 PM |
#35 |
 -
good point |
Liberal_in_LA |
Apr-05-09 06:46 PM |
#48 |
 -
Don't forget that at the same time, the advertising/consumer culture was doing a masterful job of |
LuckyLib |
Apr-05-09 11:25 PM |
#104 |
-
company store |
Hissyspit |
Apr-05-09 04:35 PM |
#36 |
 -
I was thinking the same exact thing. nt |
earth mom |
Apr-05-09 08:44 PM |
#72 |
 -
Company Store is right - that is how it got started |
csziggy |
Apr-05-09 08:53 PM |
#76 |
-
In Some Cities, It May Have Even Helped People Get Access to Higher Paying Jobs |
NashVegas |
Apr-05-09 04:41 PM |
#37 |
 -
Yup. In LA, the car you drive is a big deal for a lot of people. |
Merlot |
Apr-05-09 04:54 PM |
#39 |
  -
Some years ago, a Forum Leader who had been all over... |
Cassandra |
Apr-06-09 08:16 AM |
#129 |
  -
No Kidding! |
Sen. Walter Sobchak |
Apr-06-09 11:51 AM |
#154 |
 -
Good point. n/t |
pengillian101 |
Apr-06-09 12:44 AM |
#113 |
-
So, what's the solution?? |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 05:25 PM |
#41 |
 -
For my family, the solution |
babydollhead |
Apr-05-09 06:11 PM |
#42 |
  -
And are you naive enough to believe |
TwixVoy |
Apr-05-09 06:32 PM |
#45 |
 -
Right now, more than you know are finding out they don't have a |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:26 PM |
#93 |
 -
Higher wages to start with |
Raineyb |
Apr-05-09 07:18 PM |
#53 |
-
I said the same thing a year ago |
TwixVoy |
Apr-05-09 06:28 PM |
#44 |
-
We're all serf's now |
kohodog |
Apr-05-09 06:43 PM |
#46 |
-
Good way to make us all into serfs. |
JDPriestly |
Apr-05-09 06:45 PM |
#47 |
-
I believe she nailed it. |
Uncle Joe |
Apr-05-09 06:54 PM |
#50 |
 -
I am actually not so concerned about that. |
TheBigotBasher |
Apr-05-09 07:20 PM |
#54 |
-
I believe, if it hadn't been Jobs and Gates, it would've been someone else. |
Uncle Joe |
Apr-06-09 02:46 PM |
#176 |
-
That's something I can agree with. It's getting more difficult to agree |
bluesmail |
Apr-05-09 07:08 PM |
#51 |
-
K&R |
leftstreet |
Apr-05-09 07:10 PM |
#52 |
-
I can't remember her ever being wrong! Thanks for posting, K & R nt |
glitch |
Apr-05-09 07:38 PM |
#55 |
-
I have had a constant heartache about my grown son's future. |
dixiegrrrrl |
Apr-05-09 07:39 PM |
#56 |
 -
That is so sickening. Just sad. Sad. |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:32 PM |
#94 |
 -
They both are close to 40 now. They are very smart, very good with money... |
pengillian101 |
Apr-06-09 01:58 AM |
#116 |
-
and when the powers that be decide to all be "broke" at the same time |
underpants |
Apr-05-09 07:40 PM |
#57 |
-
And it worked fairly well until the manufacturers and bankers got |
jwirr |
Apr-05-09 07:46 PM |
#58 |
-
K&R n/t |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-05-09 07:50 PM |
#59 |
-
Real income |
Citizen Worker |
Apr-05-09 07:59 PM |
#60 |
 -
Well said ! |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 08:15 PM |
#63 |
 -
Great post. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:09 PM |
#81 |
 -
Great post. |
raccoon |
Apr-06-09 10:17 AM |
#139 |
-
Debt....the new Slavery! |
femrap |
Apr-05-09 08:13 PM |
#62 |
 -
The banks own the people AND the government. Let's be clear on that. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 08:38 PM |
#69 |
  -
Becoming more obvious everyday! |
Fire1 |
Apr-05-09 10:47 PM |
#97 |
  -
I look at the gov't as |
femrap |
Apr-07-09 08:22 PM |
#204 |
 -
In 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 11:42 AM |
#153 |
-
Thank you for bringing up John Perkins. Very good post! (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:30 PM |
#173 |
 -
You're welcome! |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-06-09 05:12 PM |
#188 |
-
"I can't help thinking that these 'masters of the universe' viewed the US in the same way..." |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 05:32 PM |
#189 |
-
I remember when I saw the author of 'The |
femrap |
Apr-07-09 08:18 PM |
#203 |
-
Thank you femrap ~ |
sabrina 1 |
Apr-07-09 09:18 PM |
#205 |
-
This was the Greenspan plan. nt |
Mithreal |
Apr-05-09 08:24 PM |
#64 |
-
This is also why "freeing up credit markets" is a bunch of crap. |
gorfle |
Apr-05-09 08:28 PM |
#65 |
 -
"People need more wealth, not more loans." Exactly! I'm with you, "freeing up credit markets" is BS |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:27 PM |
#84 |
 -
But businesses and governments need credit in order to manage inflow and outflow. |
pnwmom |
Apr-05-09 09:50 PM |
#91 |
 -
delete (dupe) |
pnwmom |
Apr-05-09 09:50 PM |
#92 |
-
The thing about B. Ehrenreich |
KT2000 |
Apr-05-09 08:29 PM |
#66 |
 -
she should, but |
dcsmart |
Apr-06-09 06:32 AM |
#122 |
-
Thanks for that |
KT2000 |
Apr-06-09 12:01 PM |
#156 |
-
Thanks, Kentuck.....and "they" will tell us we coulda' said "NO!" |
KoKo |
Apr-05-09 08:32 PM |
#67 |
-
best fucking post of the week, if not the month. K&R |
cliffordu |
Apr-05-09 08:33 PM |
#68 |
-
Obama is propping this b.s. up and in doing so, proving he doesn't give a damn about wages |
earth mom |
Apr-05-09 08:41 PM |
#70 |
 -
I don't know that I would be that harsh with Barack... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 08:50 PM |
#75 |
 -
Wall Street and the banks OWN our government, our political class serves THEIR needs. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 09:39 PM |
#88 |
-
Yes, and anyone who doesn't get that has been sleeping for the last 30 years. |
closeupready |
Apr-06-09 07:01 AM |
#126 |
-
Easy credit and cheap mports |
TomClash |
Apr-05-09 08:44 PM |
#73 |
-
her online blog |
Mari333 |
Apr-05-09 08:56 PM |
#77 |
 -
Thanks for that link |
elizfeelinggreat |
Apr-05-09 09:29 PM |
#85 |
-
No truer statement has ever been uttered. |
OwnedByFerrets |
Apr-05-09 09:03 PM |
#78 |
-
That is why it is so important that the Obama Administration not... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 09:07 PM |
#80 |
-
I remember telling my wife, years ago, that when this period of easy credit goes away |
paparush |
Apr-05-09 09:20 PM |
#83 |
-
What a beautiful and simple explanation of why we are in our current mess. Consumer greed. |
trickyguy |
Apr-05-09 09:33 PM |
#86 |
 -
But consumer greed is harmless... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 09:36 PM |
#87 |
-
It was also THE only way to finance a small business for some |
Carni |
Apr-05-09 09:44 PM |
#89 |
 -
Thank you, that's a very important point. I remember when that started happening. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-05-09 10:44 PM |
#96 |
 -
I have heard of a few businesses having problems getting loans... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:19 PM |
#101 |
 -
Independent Movies Were Built on Mastercard |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 06:59 AM |
#125 |
  -
Very true |
Chovexani |
Apr-06-09 11:21 AM |
#147 |
   -
Lot of People |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 12:07 PM |
#157 |
  -
Serious question: Why was that? Why weren't there any actual investors? |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 12:18 PM |
#160 |
 -
I Can Only Guess |
NashVegas |
Apr-06-09 01:04 PM |
#168 |
 -
Thanks for your reply. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:26 PM |
#172 |
 -
what were the options really?...in business you have to push forward..hoping |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 12:46 PM |
#164 |
-
Yes, |
quaker bill |
Apr-05-09 09:48 PM |
#90 |
-
i just finished reading her book "Nickel and Dimed" |
JI7 |
Apr-05-09 10:39 PM |
#95 |
-
Ehrenreich supported Nader in 2000... |
hay rick |
Apr-05-09 11:07 PM |
#98 |
 -
Why? |
Raineyb |
Apr-06-09 03:30 PM |
#185 |
-
Earth shaking, I don't think so. People without have always borrowed to be buy what they |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:10 PM |
#99 |
 -
But not at this level... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:14 PM |
#100 |
-
Right, so many borrowers have not been out of jobs before. Except |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:20 PM |
#102 |
 -
But people are not laying off employees because they could not borrow money.... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:28 PM |
#106 |
-
Borrow to buy stock. |
C......N......C |
Apr-05-09 11:25 PM |
#105 |
-
Thnks for that find! Here's what I was able to Google: |
pnorman |
Apr-05-09 11:22 PM |
#103 |
-
I've been saying this forever! |
Duer 157099 |
Apr-05-09 11:33 PM |
#107 |
 -
It's the obvious that folks tend to overlook... |
kentuck |
Apr-05-09 11:36 PM |
#108 |
 -
the past three decades since "greed is good" and "conspicuous consumption" brainwashing |
omega minimo |
Apr-06-09 11:26 AM |
#149 |
-
Bam. There it is. Kick and Rec!! |
Political Heretic |
Apr-05-09 11:39 PM |
#109 |
-
Barbara Is Right - But Elizabeth Warren Should Get Some Credit (pun) for this point |
Median Democrat |
Apr-05-09 11:41 PM |
#110 |
-
right on |
livefreest |
Apr-06-09 12:07 AM |
#111 |
 -
That would be a great start. |
kentuck |
Apr-06-09 12:58 AM |
#115 |
-
Barbara Ehrenreich is a muckraker first class |
juno jones |
Apr-06-09 03:59 AM |
#117 |
-
that's an economy built like a sand castle....just swept away by the tide |
MyThoughts4 |
Apr-06-09 04:56 AM |
#119 |
-
K&R |
pleah |
Apr-06-09 07:50 AM |
#127 |
-
A consequence of |
The Wizard |
Apr-06-09 08:04 AM |
#128 |
-
It's an inconvenient truth... |
kentuck |
Apr-06-09 09:17 AM |
#131 |
-
Check out the April Harper's article "Infinite Debt"... |
JHB |
Apr-06-09 09:29 AM |
#133 |
-
It was an alignment of interests. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Apr-06-09 10:05 AM |
#135 |
-
Right on. I've been saying the same thing for years. |
no name no slogan |
Apr-06-09 10:06 AM |
#136 |
-
"Easy Credit Ripoffs" |
guitar man |
Apr-06-09 10:14 AM |
#138 |
 -
Hee...I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had that song pop in his head. |
tjwash |
Apr-06-09 10:19 AM |
#140 |
-
yep, popped right up |
guitar man |
Apr-06-09 10:25 AM |
#141 |
-
a country of the rich, by the rich, for the rich, |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Apr-06-09 10:37 AM |
#142 |
-
K & R! nt |
paparush |
Apr-06-09 10:40 AM |
#143 |
-
Hook, line, sinker meet hungry fish. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Apr-06-09 10:44 AM |
#144 |
-
Very true. * is to blame for the crisis he has put us into. |
Xenotime |
Apr-06-09 11:08 AM |
#146 |
 -
This has been in the making for over 30 years, and has been aided & abetted by both parties. (nt) |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 01:47 PM |
#174 |
-
The first time I saw someone buy groceries with a credit card |
mikehiggins |
Apr-06-09 11:24 AM |
#148 |
-
K&R! Exactly right! |
Stargazer09 |
Apr-06-09 11:32 AM |
#151 |
-
It's true: we had 'virtual income' via second mortgages and credit cards. n/t |
antimatter98 |
Apr-06-09 11:54 AM |
#155 |
-
I never got caught in that trap |
prolesunited |
Apr-06-09 12:08 PM |
#158 |
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And those folks still OK have been very, very lucky. That luck could change. Any minute. |
LuckyLib |
Apr-06-09 12:50 PM |
#166 |
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sorry...there are a lot of us in this same situation...for whatever reason.. |
xiamiam |
Apr-06-09 01:13 PM |
#170 |
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Absolutely, spot on. |
wisteria |
Apr-06-09 12:52 PM |
#167 |
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She is absolutely right |
Sherman A1 |
Apr-06-09 02:03 PM |
#175 |
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Organize consumers and workers. Tear this MoFu down! |
RedCloud |
Apr-06-09 02:46 PM |
#177 |
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Exactly. The problem is, there are still too many people willing to believe that their "leaders" are |
scarletwoman |
Apr-06-09 03:16 PM |
#183 |
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my goodness, if that doesn't say it all - easy credit in EXCHANGE for giving better wages - it's |
Divine Discontent |
Apr-06-09 03:05 PM |
#180 |
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100% true - MORE PAY NOT MORE CREDIT! |
grahamhgreen |
Apr-06-09 03:06 PM |
#181 |
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Well duh... |
Kansas Wyatt |
Apr-06-09 03:38 PM |
#186 |
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Ehrenreich also knows that wives bringing in a second income kept the middle class going as well... |
Hekate |
Apr-07-09 03:35 AM |
#193 |
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I'm lucky... |
sendero |
Apr-07-09 07:00 AM |
#198 |
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Typical corporate management. Keep the little people in debt, |
anonymous171 |
Apr-07-09 01:19 PM |
#202 |