You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #86: Yep. "Self-evident" means axiomatic. No deities needed. n/t [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
86. Yep. "Self-evident" means axiomatic. No deities needed. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Where do "unalienable rights" come from? Jonathan50  Mar-29-07 10:54 PM   #0 
  - God. nt  Marie26   Mar-29-07 10:57 PM   #1 
  - Can you point to a religious text which mentions "unalienable rights"?  Jonathan50   Mar-29-07 10:59 PM   #4 
  - It's not in the bible because the Enlightenment thinkers who...  Maddy McCall   Mar-29-07 11:01 PM   #8 
  - It's not in the Bible, but it does come from our Puritan heritage...  Wednesdays   Mar-30-07 12:04 PM   #77 
     - All Protestants believe all believers are equal before God  mycritters2   Mar-31-07 06:48 PM   #93 
  - No. It's in the Dec. of Independence  Marie26   Mar-29-07 11:15 PM   #17 
  - Well yes, pick any book of the Bible and you can cull a hundred passages  kenny blankenship   Mar-30-07 12:37 AM   #27 
  - yes  seasonedblue   Mar-29-07 11:13 PM   #15 
  - which one?  Bill McBlueState   Mar-30-07 08:49 AM   #67 
     - Who knows?  Marie26   Mar-30-07 09:02 AM   #69 
        - I agree  Bill McBlueState   Mar-31-07 06:51 PM   #94 
  - They come from an implicit contract that has evolved among...  TygrBright   Mar-29-07 10:58 PM   #2 
  - LOL!  greyhound1966   Mar-31-07 02:40 AM   #81 
  - deleted  Jersey Devil   Mar-29-07 10:58 PM   #3 
  - Same place as all others. Ask a bible thumper, you'll get one answer...  BlooInBloo   Mar-29-07 11:00 PM   #5 
  - Several possibles  Prophet 451   Mar-29-07 11:00 PM   #6 
  - Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke...  Maddy McCall   Mar-29-07 11:00 PM   #7 
  - From The 7Up Of Aliens ???  WillyT   Mar-29-07 11:02 PM   #9 
  - Wiki knows. nt  valerief   Mar-29-07 11:03 PM   #10 
  - I've been to the Wiki link already..  Jonathan50   Mar-29-07 11:08 PM   #13 
     - It's the concept of "natural law"  Marie26   Mar-29-07 11:19 PM   #18 
  - According to the "founding fathers", and Locke's writings,  ComerPerro   Mar-29-07 11:06 PM   #11 
  - From the brilliant minds of some original thinkers. Some ideas are like that.  WinkyDink   Mar-29-07 11:08 PM   #12 
  - Yep. "Self-evident" means axiomatic. No deities needed. n/t  Orsino   Mar-31-07 12:04 PM   #86 
  - Unalienable rights come down through a long history of civic thought.  Dhalgren   Mar-29-07 11:09 PM   #14 
  - well you've hit the jackpot  frogcycle   Mar-29-07 11:15 PM   #16 
  - Yes, that's rather close to my own thoughts on the matter..  Jonathan50   Mar-29-07 11:27 PM   #19 
  - are you trying to imply that the non-religious cannot have morals?  ComerPerro   Mar-29-07 11:29 PM   #20 
  - I thought frogcycle said pretty much the opposite  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:08 AM   #21 
  - I don't think you need to accuse me of attacking. I just want to know what this means:  ComerPerro   Mar-30-07 12:09 AM   #22 
  - Sorry if you took my post the wrong way  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:20 AM   #23 
  - gotcha. got defensive.  ComerPerro   Mar-30-07 12:23 AM   #24 
     - I think of religion as secondary  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:37 AM   #28 
        - banding together using diety as a group identifer almost  ComerPerro   Mar-30-07 12:43 AM   #29 
  - Just actually got your reference  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:44 AM   #30 
     - yeah I can read it that way. The phrasing seemed odd and got me defensive, lol  ComerPerro   Mar-30-07 12:45 AM   #31 
  - thanks for understanding  frogcycle   Mar-30-07 08:58 AM   #68 
  - If they are not from a supreme being  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:21 AM   #47 
     - Again, totally false premise.  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:40 AM   #52 
        - I seem to be  spoony   Mar-30-07 03:09 AM   #61 
           - Yes. Gotcha. Thoughtful reply which deserves one in turn.  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 03:16 AM   #64 
           - Peace, goodnight :)  spoony   Mar-30-07 03:19 AM   #65 
           - religion and religious morlaity is not selfless, its self-serving  ComerPerro   Mar-30-07 11:51 AM   #76 
              - Did you even read my post?  spoony   Mar-31-07 02:27 AM   #79 
                 - So any Christian goes to Heaven, no matter how they lived, eh?  ComerPerro   Mar-31-07 11:22 AM   #84 
                    - Once again, your reading  spoony   Mar-31-07 12:20 PM   #87 
                       - and you attack my comprehension. Nice.  ComerPerro   Mar-31-07 06:38 PM   #91 
  - Incorrect. You do not "need" a "supreme being" (whatever that is) to get concepts like morality  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 01:49 AM   #38 
     - To a theist  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:23 AM   #48 
     - "That's where we think the standards come from".  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:33 AM   #50 
     - Lol, well  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:38 AM   #51 
        - And you think Buddhists don't have a moral code or structure?  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:41 AM   #53 
           - It is essentially still the social contract  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:50 AM   #56 
              - So Buddhist compassion is "utilitarian"?  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:54 AM   #59 
                 - Not entirely, please see my post #61  spoony   Mar-30-07 03:11 AM   #62 
     - oh my god, you are hoplessly naive  ComerPerro   Mar-31-07 06:45 PM   #92 
     - Ok, so its a flaming crock  frogcycle   Mar-30-07 08:44 AM   #66 
        - I think we're talking past each other.  impeachdubya   Mar-31-07 12:13 AM   #78 
  - They are an agreement with ourselves--to extent that they exist at all  kenny blankenship   Mar-30-07 12:30 AM   #25 
  - That was a great post, Kenny  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:50 AM   #32 
  - Thanks, the social contract sure won't enforce itself (I learned that by watching it crumble & fall)  kenny blankenship   Mar-30-07 12:58 AM   #34 
  - Nice post.. Good points  Jonathan50   Mar-30-07 02:08 AM   #45 
  - I would say: Nature  Quixote1818   Mar-30-07 12:35 AM   #26 
  - is there a difference?  Throwing Stones   Mar-30-07 12:53 AM   #33 
  - It depends on your religion when related to this discussion  Quixote1818   Mar-30-07 01:33 AM   #36 
  - Oh absolutely!!! God created the SYSTEM in which our  Mind_your_head   Mar-30-07 01:34 AM   #37 
  - And who or what created "god"? nt  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 01:57 AM   #42 
     - Turtles all the way down, then?  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:24 AM   #49 
     - I think the notion that anything "needs" a "creator" is intrinsically flawed.  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:42 AM   #54 
        - Then you do acknowledge  spoony   Mar-30-07 02:53 AM   #58 
           - No, shit IS here. If something HAD to cause it, then you are flailing when you blow off the question  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:55 AM   #60 
              - I didn't say "generally created"  spoony   Mar-30-07 03:14 AM   #63 
     - THAT, is the Big Imponderable.  WinkyDink   Mar-31-07 11:25 AM   #85 
  - Nature is visible everywhere. "God" is invisible, & apparently spends a lot of time worrying  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 01:56 AM   #40 
  - I don't think so. The law of nature is the law of the jungle and we do not do well  greyhound1966   Mar-31-07 02:54 AM   #83 
  - God....scencient being  Mind_your_head   Mar-30-07 01:13 AM   #35 
  - If a truth is self-evident, it doesn't need to "come from" anywhere. It just IS.  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 01:52 AM   #39 
  - What's behind the "just is"  seasonedblue   Mar-30-07 02:07 AM   #44 
  - I had an unpleasant experience a while back..  Jonathan50   Mar-30-07 02:16 AM   #46 
  - Thanks for answering my question. I agree 100%. It may come as a surprise  impeachdubya   Mar-30-07 02:52 AM   #57 
     - I agree with you completely..  Jonathan50   Mar-30-07 10:13 AM   #70 
  - God is part of what was self-evident  sampsonblk   Mar-31-07 12:30 PM   #89 
  - the unaliens  leftofthedial   Mar-30-07 01:57 AM   #41 
  - It's a subset of the "Self evident" truths  Bucky   Mar-30-07 01:57 AM   #43 
  - They don't really, really exist. Society will follow a set of rules,  Random_Australian   Mar-30-07 02:46 AM   #55 
  - From the humans who crafted them.  izzybeans   Mar-30-07 10:14 AM   #71 
  - Nature  slackmaster   Mar-30-07 10:15 AM   #72 
  - and there you have it  frogcycle   Mar-30-07 10:52 AM   #73 
     - I claim my inalienable right to grow more garlic than I can possibly use  slackmaster   Mar-30-07 11:04 AM   #75 
  - Voltaire  Wilber_Stool   Mar-30-07 11:01 AM   #74 
  - They are inherent to the human condition  knight_of_the_star   Mar-31-07 02:34 AM   #80 
  - They are the foundation of every civilization. They come from the realization  greyhound1966   Mar-31-07 02:47 AM   #82 
  - God-nt  sampsonblk   Mar-31-07 12:22 PM   #88 
  - Reason?  TorchesAndPitchforks   Mar-31-07 12:40 PM   #90 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC