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Reply #17: Who decides which "liberal and anti-war protests" are legitimate? [View All]

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Mar-31-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Who decides which "liberal and anti-war protests" are legitimate?
I'm an old lady and I've been in protests since 1967 (the first big anti-Vietnam War march), so I have a lot of experience of anti-war and other protests, and of corporate media handling of protests. And I was in Seattle in 1999 primarily to protest the WTO's illegitimate power over state/federal environmental regulations, and generally to protest the lack of democracy in the WTO, and lack of consultation with the American people in the signing of various global trade agreements. Others were there to protest the impacts of bad trade agreements on organized labor, and on other human rights issues. I and the 50,000 other peaceful protesters in Seattle--including the 10,000 people who entirely peacefully shut down the WTO meeting, by sitting down in Seattle's intersections, in a time-honored act of civil disobedience--were a "legitimate" protest, and one that the American people badly, badly needed to hear about. How this protest got portrayed as somehow "illegitimate" and violent is a study in our loss of all objective journalism in this country.

There was no violence on the day of the massive civil disobedience by any protestors until very late in the day--about 4-5 pm, after six straight hours of the ugliest police violence I have ever witnessed--for instance, pulling up this big blower machine to an intersection where hundreds of people were sitting peacefully, getting out a big hose, and hosing pepper spray directly at the heads and faces of seated protesters. Just before this started, I turned to one of the cops in the long Darth Vader line (I was a legal observer) and asked him, "What are you going to do to us?" His answer: "We're not going to kill you." Then they released cs gas over the whole region, and everyone ran to get out of it--with police chasing people and beating the crap out of them, and shooting them with rubber bullets.

By late in the afternoon, after hours of mayhem created by the police, the police then permitted a few "anarchist" youngsters to run wild, burning trash cans and breaking windows downtown. The real protesters tried to stop them. The police clearly sat back and let this vandalism proceed. And I was amazed, when I got home that night, to watch the evening news and the first thing they showed was a young "anarchist"'s foot going through a store window. The sequence of events had been reversed. The late in the day vandalism was being used as an excuse for the daylong police violence against peaceful protesters. The police proceeded to riot into the evening, tear-gassing and cs-gassing large swaths of the city, even into completely uninvolved neighborhoods. They even beat up a city councilman.

So, IF, as you say, the Seattle protests "delegitimized liberal and anti-war protests for years afterward," that delegitimization was a planned effect of the twisted-around 'news' reports by the corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies, in service to the global corporate predators who control them.

The peaceful shutdown of the WTO meeting was THE most amazing protest I have ever seen or heard of. It was a brilliant civil disobedience action. And if it's extremely important point--the lack of democracy in global trade decisions--had been objectively reported, and if more Americans had understood that protest, it is at least possible that we wouldn't be in the grave situation we are in today, with global corporate predators absolutely robbing us blind, and destroying our sovereignty as a people, our democracy, our economy and our planet.

The corporate powers-that-be had much reason to "de-legitimatize" the Seattle protest, and all protest. They had an oil war to pull off--and more jobs to outsource, and much more looting to do. Hell, they've even outsourced the manufacture of the very voting machines by which they steal our elections. (See "The Trouble With Touchscreens," by Dan Rather, www.HD.net .)

You are, unfortunately, buying into their line, that the Seattle protest was...wrong, non-mainstream, violent, "illegitimate." How many times do they have to lie to you, before you become skeptical of the self-serving impressions they give you about people and events? They were lying about Seattle, and they were soon lying about Iraq. Please, think hard about how you formed the impression that the Seattle protest was "illegitimate."

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  "Battle in Seattle" PatSeg  Mar-31-09 04:24 AM   #0 
   My hubby was involved  tavalon   Mar-31-09 04:25 AM   #1 
   Thats for sure  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 04:33 AM   #3 
   Yep, I was there too.  Matariki   Mar-31-09 05:48 PM   #51 
   i was involved from the riot cop side  paulsby   Apr-01-09 12:38 PM   #91 
   I lived through it.  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 04:32 AM   #2 
   In 1999  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 04:40 AM   #4 
   Frankly, I didn't either, until they met here. I didn't understand what  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 04:54 AM   #5 
      I first heard about the WTO  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 04:58 AM   #6 
      Agreed.  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 04:59 AM   #7 
         I learned more from movies  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 05:04 AM   #8 
            Thanks. I didn't go see the movie when it was playing here.  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 05:13 AM   #9 
               I put off watching it for a few days  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 05:19 AM   #10 
      Some things to remember when you're freaking out  Truth2Tell   Mar-31-09 05:56 PM   #54 
         Pardon me, but I wasn't "freaking out".  SeattleGirl   Apr-01-09 12:48 AM   #79 
         OK, fair enough  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 01:07 AM   #80 
         and i was smack dab in the middle from the riot cop side  paulsby   Apr-01-09 12:43 PM   #92 
            Well, I watched the police  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 02:28 PM   #100 
               what i saw  paulsby   Apr-01-09 02:40 PM   #102 
                  Plenty of videos of the violent police behavior  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 02:51 PM   #104 
                     i've seen plenty of the videos  paulsby   Apr-01-09 02:56 PM   #106 
                        immensely restrained?  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 03:06 PM   #107 
                           that is complete crap  paulsby   Apr-01-09 03:20 PM   #108 
                           It's all on video.  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 03:34 PM   #110 
                              sorry  paulsby   Apr-01-09 03:40 PM   #111 
                                 I linked to bunch in my previous post.  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 03:43 PM   #114 
                                    yes, people can  paulsby   Apr-01-09 03:52 PM   #115 
                                       Which part of "no protester violence or vandalism  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 04:01 PM   #116 
                                          except its crap  paulsby   Apr-01-09 04:05 PM   #117 
                                             cops desperately PLEADING for help as their lines were overrun  Truth2Tell   Apr-01-09 04:27 PM   #124 
                                                ooooh how special  paulsby   Apr-01-09 04:29 PM   #125 
                           well since both of you were in the middle, let me put in my two cents worth...  winyanstaz   Apr-01-09 04:11 PM   #120 
   how many windows *was* that? cause i was there too, & the reality was quite different  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 07:35 AM   #12 
   Gee gosh golly wow! I guess my eyes much have totally deceived  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 01:23 PM   #20 
   People who witnessed it  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 02:08 PM   #23 
   i witnessed it. it didn't.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:08 PM   #25 
   Its interesting  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 03:19 PM   #28 
      i think if you were to go into more depth, you'd find the accounts aren't so divergent  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:22 PM   #31 
   That's really a big exaggeration.  Matariki   Mar-31-09 05:50 PM   #52 
   I was there (WTO). Anyone saying it looked like Beruit is a liar.  BlooInBloo   Mar-31-09 09:39 PM   #75 
   you may have seen boarded-up windows. did you go in to see if the glass was broken?  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:07 PM   #24 
      Just seems you are wearing rose colored glasses, that nothing happened  SeattleGirl   Mar-31-09 04:11 PM   #43 
         something happened, definitely. but that something wasn't anarchists  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 04:30 PM   #46 
            I was right there the whole time and I can back up  Truth2Tell   Mar-31-09 05:59 PM   #55 
   I'm a Seattle native  Missy Vixen   Mar-31-09 03:16 PM   #26 
      i'm a renton native, 4th-generation washingtonian, went to school & worked at uw, boeing, etc.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:27 PM   #35 
         Oh, so now we're going to play the "one-up game"?  Missy Vixen   Mar-31-09 04:24 PM   #45 
            you started the one-up game. your friend didn't die at the wto protests.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 04:34 PM   #47 
            No, he just got beaten by several anarchists  Missy Vixen   Mar-31-09 06:13 PM   #58 
               i'm talking about your friend on the police force. you said he was dead.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 06:17 PM   #59 
                  Well, you were so interested in documentation, I'm sure that would have been the next question  Missy Vixen   Mar-31-09 06:37 PM   #62 
                     preliminary search with "bus driver" beaten seattle wto turns in no reports of bus drivers  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 06:43 PM   #63 
                     Actually you do. If you make claims like that.  arcadian   Mar-31-09 08:59 PM   #71 
                     Interesting you should say that  Downtown Hound   Apr-01-09 01:21 AM   #82 
            Your friend was part of the police force on Capitol Hill that night?  Matariki   Mar-31-09 05:56 PM   #53 
               I wasn't on Capitol Hill that night  Missy Vixen   Mar-31-09 06:10 PM   #57 
               my relative (by marriage) is on spd & was part of the capitol hill thing.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 06:26 PM   #61 
   Yup. Talking to friends in it, family there, watching on tv from here, I agree.  uppityperson   Mar-31-09 03:17 PM   #27 
   The "anarchists" were undercover cops - aka agent provocateurs  martymar64   Mar-31-09 06:54 PM   #64 
      Proof?  SeattleGirl   Apr-01-09 12:46 AM   #78 
   It delegitimized liberal and anti-war protests for years afterward. nt  Captain Hilts   Mar-31-09 07:29 AM   #11 
   no, it didn't. it shook up some of the ptb, though. they took to remote locations,  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 07:36 AM   #13 
   in your eyes  G_j   Mar-31-09 07:41 AM   #14 
   Who decides which "liberal and anti-war protests" are legitimate?  Peace Patriot   Mar-31-09 08:32 AM   #17 
   Thank you  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 01:12 PM   #19 
   having friends and family there, I agree with your post also  uppityperson   Mar-31-09 03:19 PM   #29 
   In the DVD extras  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 03:23 PM   #32 
      Sounds like Kent State also.  uppityperson   Mar-31-09 03:25 PM   #33 
      spd brought in reinforcements from all over the state & the nation well before the event.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:52 PM   #38 
      I haven't seen the DVD, but I saw bad guys with my own eyes--  Peace Patriot   Mar-31-09 07:08 PM   #66 
         If you get a chance  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 07:20 PM   #67 
            Mona Charon was a columnist to the right of Ann Coulter, who showed up on  Peace Patriot   Apr-01-09 10:01 AM   #85 
               I was living near Kansas City at the time  Blue_Tires   Apr-01-09 10:19 AM   #86 
               When I Googled her  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 12:51 PM   #93 
   "a young "anarchist"'s foot going through a store window"  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:21 PM   #30 
   Odd, I didn't know my friends and family were such liars.  uppityperson   Mar-31-09 03:27 PM   #34 
      i didn't say there was *no* violence. i said a couple of incidents, one being the capitol hill  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 03:42 PM   #36 
         My friend was beaten by cops, thrown into jail, for trying to get past it all  uppityperson   Mar-31-09 03:55 PM   #39 
            my original post on this thread was to another poster who said anarchists took over  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 04:03 PM   #40 
            I guess one's perspective  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 04:11 PM   #42 
   There are  tama   Mar-31-09 03:49 PM   #37 
   Peace Patriot, You depicted it as I remember it  suffragette   Mar-31-09 04:35 PM   #48 
   Outstanding post PP  Truth2Tell   Mar-31-09 06:08 PM   #56 
   Capitol Hill residents protest was actually a separate event  eridani   Apr-01-09 05:44 AM   #84 
   Your story is very powerful.  stevedeshazer   Mar-31-09 09:03 PM   #73 
   That's rubbish  The Leveller   Mar-31-09 05:44 PM   #50 
   What a load of SHIT.  Runcible Spoon   Mar-31-09 09:00 PM   #72 
   How's that corporate media Kool Aid taste? n/t  Downtown Hound   Apr-01-09 03:44 AM   #83 
   anarchists or agents provocateur?  rampart   Mar-31-09 07:45 AM   #15 
   i was there. the "anarchist" contingent was blown *way* out of proportion by the media,  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 07:58 AM   #16 
   I saw Nina Hagen perform in Seattle a couple of years ago.  juno jones   Mar-31-09 10:00 AM   #18 
   Great movie  Downtown Hound   Mar-31-09 01:32 PM   #21 
   It dawned on me that some of the "anarchists"  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 02:04 PM   #22 
   Most likely  Downtown Hound   Apr-01-09 12:44 AM   #77 
   "The movement morphed into the Iraq War protests"  tama   Mar-31-09 04:03 PM   #41 
      Well, that would explain  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 04:18 PM   #44 
      I agree, they really did need a new distraction  Downtown Hound   Apr-01-09 12:26 AM   #76 
      Yes, the Seattle protests marked the beginning of the end of the WTO,  Peace Patriot   Apr-01-09 11:19 AM   #87 
         Watched on TV  LeFleur1   Apr-01-09 11:52 AM   #89 
         Let's be clear  tama   Apr-01-09 01:53 PM   #96 
            "Hindering free movement  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 02:28 PM   #101 
               Semantics  tama   Apr-01-09 04:14 PM   #121 
               Yes, it is just semantics  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 04:33 PM   #127 
                  A thought experiment  tama   Apr-01-09 04:56 PM   #129 
                     Good example  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 05:09 PM   #130 
                        That's why I admire those young people  tama   Apr-01-09 05:24 PM   #132 
                           You're welcome  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 05:40 PM   #133 
               On the other hand  tama   Apr-01-09 04:32 PM   #126 
                  Well, that does seem to sum it up!  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 04:42 PM   #128 
         It all started in Chiapas  tama   Apr-01-09 01:42 PM   #95 
            You are leaving an important group out: the liberal 'establishment' bureaucrats  Peace Patriot   Apr-01-09 11:16 PM   #134 
   Seattle National Lawyers Guild: Report on WTO Ministerial  G_j   Mar-31-09 05:40 PM   #49 
   Thanks  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 07:07 PM   #65 
      so far, the links I've found to the full NLG report are obsolete  G_j   Mar-31-09 07:24 PM   #68 
         "military-like power" not only "military-like". spd got military aid if my memory serves me.  Hannah Bell   Mar-31-09 07:28 PM   #69 
            I read the NLG report when it first came out, and I believe it went in depth  G_j   Mar-31-09 08:47 PM   #70 
            From the report in the above post  PatSeg   Mar-31-09 09:38 PM   #74 
            Which is exactly when Power makes the contrary claim  Echo In Light   Apr-01-09 03:41 PM   #112 
   A small group from Eugene  Spike89   Mar-31-09 06:23 PM   #60 
   Just want to say something about "anarchism"--a very broad term.  Peace Patriot   Apr-01-09 12:31 PM   #90 
      Very interesting  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 01:18 PM   #94 
      The black masked anarchists  Spike89   Apr-01-09 02:06 PM   #97 
         Did these Eugene anarchists  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 02:11 PM   #98 
            real? couldn't say  Spike89   Apr-01-09 02:55 PM   #105 
               I guess you don't have to be "big"  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 03:28 PM   #109 
               'end to civilization or more precisely, ownership and technology'  tama   Apr-01-09 04:22 PM   #122 
      Word  tama   Apr-01-09 02:19 PM   #99 
   The one in DC was not televised or recorded in 2005.  lonestarnot   Apr-01-09 01:09 AM   #81 
   I was caught in the middle of it.  StreetKnowledge   Apr-01-09 11:22 AM   #88 
   Here's a documentary from the notorious anarchists point of view  killbotfactory   Apr-01-09 02:45 PM   #103 
   Thanks  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 03:41 PM   #113 
   Thanks for posting  Echo In Light   Apr-01-09 04:10 PM   #119 
   Precious quote  tama   Apr-01-09 05:13 PM   #131 
   I definitely will have to put that on my list - I haven't seen it either.  jillan   Apr-01-09 04:09 PM   #118 
      It was really a good movie  PatSeg   Apr-01-09 04:23 PM   #123 
 

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