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Reply #60: I know the merits of the plan [View All]

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-24-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I know the merits of the plan
Edited on Tue Mar-24-09 08:30 PM by Oregone
It will unload the toxic bank assets, cause profit for investors with minimal risk, all at a cost to the government. Then we turn around and cross our fingers and hope, against all reason, that the investors and banks are happy enough to put their money down in the middle of the shittiest business environment this country has seen in years.

Id rather see the government perform a cheap, but legitimate hostile take-over of the banks (which the banks have done before to others), and a sell off of the assets to clean them out for public consumption. Once done, the government could take the profits from overall operation and ENSURE it is applied to fostering a more positive business environment in America, from the bottom up. Thereafter, the salivating investors will jump in the circle with open arms.

The merit of Geithner/Obama's plan essentially relies on Friedmanism and coddles the investor class to restart our economy. They assume if they shovel enough out to the upper classes, they will trickle it down. Will it work? Who knows. It may make entities more willing to lend (because they are solvent and can) ONLY IF it is profitable to do so. But this plan, in itself, doesn't ensure it will be profitable to invest in America, nor is it the only way to clean out the banks assets. In fact, it is a more expensive way to do it, and that expense is justified as a bribe to make investors do their free-market, trickle down magic.

The entire philosophy needed to merely come up with Obama's plan is so off track from where we should be, its beyond disappointing. Thats why its shitty. Yes, it will succeed 100% in getting the banks solvent. But beyond that, there is no guarantee it will do much else but cost the government some amount of money.
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  -Why is Geithners plan better than the government buying the toxic assets outright? Oregone  Mar-24-09 11:23 AM   #0 
  - Keeping it simple is not the way of men who "forgot" to pay their taxes.  Democrats_win   Mar-24-09 11:30 AM   #1 
  - Isn't that basically the Paulson plan from October?  tritsofme   Mar-24-09 11:37 AM   #2 
  - I think so. Everyone hated it  Oregone   Mar-24-09 11:39 AM   #4 
  - Why is Geithners plan better....for WHO?  dixiegrrrrl   Mar-24-09 11:38 AM   #3 
  - LOL...I didn't define "better"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 11:41 AM   #5 
  - You got it....  dixiegrrrrl   Mar-24-09 11:45 AM   #8 
  - I guess our answer is that people who make their money on Wall Street  Redbear   Mar-24-09 11:43 AM   #6 
     - They will make big money on this plan  Oregone   Mar-24-09 11:50 AM   #10 
     - And wasn't it sweet that they (wall street) got the advance notice  sad sally   Mar-24-09 03:30 PM   #25 
  - Well, If The Gov Buys These Subprime Loans, Shouldn't The Gov Reduce The Principle On These Loans?  Median Democrat   Mar-24-09 11:43 AM   #7 
  - If we buy all of the bad assets...  Cant trust em   Mar-24-09 11:46 AM   #9 
  - Under Geithner's plan, we own 0% of them.  Oregone   Mar-24-09 11:53 AM   #11 
  - They don't want the US to own all of it..  ww2player   Mar-24-09 11:55 AM   #12 
  - I'll Give It A Shot  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 11:56 AM   #13 
  - A couple comments:  Oregone   Mar-24-09 12:16 PM   #14 
  - You're Ignoring Some Of The Most Salient Points I Made  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 12:30 PM   #15 
     - And you are ignoring mine  Oregone   Mar-24-09 12:55 PM   #17 
        - I've Addressed Everything You've Said  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 01:11 PM   #18 
        - "85% loss is better than 100%"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 01:20 PM   #20 
        - It Is  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 01:27 PM   #21 
           - The government should have an equity stake no less than their liability  Oregone   Mar-24-09 02:54 PM   #22 
              - Why? The Government Loans Money ALL THE TIME W/ No Equity Stakes At All  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 03:46 PM   #26 
                 - Two points  Oregone   Mar-24-09 03:58 PM   #28 
                    - I've Always Maintained That Criticizing The Risk/Equity Ratio Is Valid  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 04:04 PM   #29 
                       - "Equity stakes are usually NEVER an issue in their other multitudes of loan agreements."  Oregone   Mar-24-09 04:17 PM   #30 
                       - I'm Not Disagreeing, As I Said It's A Valid Criticism  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 04:27 PM   #31 
                          - "I've still not seen how this is true"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 05:18 PM   #36 
                             - I Should Have Said Necessarily True  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 05:30 PM   #38 
                                - Yes, I am among the non-trusting  Oregone   Mar-24-09 05:38 PM   #42 
                                   - Well That's obvious!  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 05:47 PM   #44 
                                      - What you mention as "larger philosophical issues" are actually make-or-break issues.  Cronopio   Mar-24-09 06:22 PM   #48 
                                         - So How does natonalization accomplish  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 06:25 PM   #49 
                                         - Nationalizing The Big Four wouldn't solve the problem of their "toxic" assets.  Cronopio   Mar-24-09 06:47 PM   #51 
                                         - "Investors would have more reliable information on what to trade and who to trade with"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 06:51 PM   #52 
                                         - "We need it to be blind somewhat so the bad is bought off ..."  Cronopio   Mar-24-09 07:07 PM   #53 
                                         - "Geithner is pretending otherwise"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 07:21 PM   #55 
                                         - That's it.  Cronopio   Mar-24-09 07:28 PM   #56 
                                         - No, It's A Success If The World Economy Doesn't Fall Off A Cliff  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 09:02 PM   #66 
                                         - I don't know where to start with this.  Cronopio   Mar-25-09 12:00 PM   #98 
                                         - Wow, Now That's Just Downright Silly  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 08:58 PM   #65 
                                         - "We need as much data as possible"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 09:53 PM   #69 
                                         - See, That's The Problem, That's How YOU Understand It  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 07:30 AM   #72 
                                         - So You've Settled On Your Pet Theory Of Ulterior Motives And Drawn Conclusions Based Upon  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 08:57 PM   #64 
                                         - THE SKY IS FALLING!  Oregone   Mar-24-09 09:21 PM   #68 
                                         - Must Be Nice Up In Your Ivory Tower  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 07:27 AM   #71 
                       - BTW, to break it down in dollars and cents.  Oregone   Mar-24-09 05:08 PM   #32 
                          - Oy! Thanks But I Already Understood The Underlying Principles  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 06:20 PM   #46 
                             - "if you don't trust Obama to competently handle"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 07:10 PM   #54 
                                - LOL! Such A Shitty Plan? OK Nostradamus!  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 07:58 PM   #57 
                                   - I know the merits of the plan  Oregone   Mar-24-09 08:28 PM   #60 
                                      - You Have An Opinion And You've Already Made Up Your Mind That It Will Fail  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 08:35 PM   #61 
                                         - "You've Already Made Up Your Mind That It Will Fail" - Not true  Oregone   Mar-24-09 08:48 PM   #62 
                                         - Really? There Are Ways To Do It Much Lower Cost? And How Will You Determine The Value Of Their  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 08:51 PM   #63 
                                         - is a quick way to do it much cheaper.  Oregone   Mar-24-09 09:14 PM   #67 
                                         - Ok Gordon Gekko! Obama Should Open Up An Etrade Account And Get To Work!  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 07:32 AM   #73 
                                         - There is nothing wrong with using legitimate business mechanism to retain ownership  Oregone   Mar-25-09 10:45 AM   #75 
                                         - Nothing Wrong? You Mean Aside From The Legal And Ethical Issues??  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 10:51 AM   #76 
                                         - And the better alternative is to just seize them?  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:00 AM   #78 
                                         - "Id rather see the government buy the company legitimately."  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:06 AM   #80 
                                         - Its humorous how it is only legal to steal money...  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:11 AM   #82 
                                         - You Still Have Not Shown Money Is Being "Stolen" In This Situation  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:16 AM   #85 
                                         - You keep talking about those who have made up their mind....  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:21 AM   #87 
                                         - Please Show My "Definite" (Whatever That Is) Support  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:22 AM   #88 
                                         - You support is shown in how you are adamantly dismissive of the other side.  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:26 AM   #90 
                                         - So Go Ahead And Put Up My Adamant Dismissiveness  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:27 AM   #91 
                                         - Should I copy and paste pages? Just about every post here  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:35 AM   #94 
                                         - So It Should Be Easy, Put Up Examples IN CONTEXT Please  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:37 AM   #95 
                                         - Here is an example:  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:40 AM   #96 
                                         - Thought So, You Got Nuthin'  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:41 AM   #97 
                                         - Here is some good analysis on the sucess potential of the plan itself:  Oregone   Mar-25-09 12:09 AM   #70 
                                            - It's Obvious You've Made Up Your Mind  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 09:31 AM   #74 
        - "You're going into philosophical territory that is beyond the scope of the questions at hand"  Oregone   Mar-24-09 03:13 PM   #24 
           - Oy! Perhaps It Is, But I Don't Feel Like Getting Into It Now  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 03:48 PM   #27 
        - Give it up. Apparently we're supposed to buy up these assets and  acmavm   Mar-25-09 12:58 PM   #100 
  - I couldn't have said it better. I wish you'd start a new thread on this: Why Geithner's Plan Make  Mike 03   Mar-24-09 05:13 PM   #34 
  - Because part of the problem we are having is being able to attract investors  FrenchieCat   Mar-24-09 12:39 PM   #16 
  - "America owning bad assets is not going to help their value."  Oregone   Mar-24-09 01:12 PM   #19 
  - Here is the plan I am for  dixiegrrrrl   Mar-24-09 03:12 PM   #23 
  - How about neither plan  MadHound   Mar-24-09 05:13 PM   #33 
  - But the problem in this scenario...  Oregone   Mar-24-09 05:22 PM   #37 
     - Credit is already gone, and frankly no matter how much money you pump into the system  MadHound   Mar-24-09 05:31 PM   #39 
        - You know, I understand that  Oregone   Mar-24-09 05:41 PM   #43 
           - "... national consumer lending branches to get the job done ..."  Cronopio   Mar-24-09 06:07 PM   #45 
  - or lowering the prices of these homes so we can buy them?  robinlynne   Mar-24-09 05:17 PM   #35 
  - Banks will refuse to sell..  girl gone mad   Mar-24-09 05:34 PM   #40 
  - Ahhh, But We Will Have Thoroughly Analyzed Their Assets  Beetwasher   Mar-24-09 05:38 PM   #41 
  - I think they're going to want to sell  high density   Mar-24-09 06:21 PM   #47 
     - It depends on whether or not they think..  girl gone mad   Mar-24-09 08:14 PM   #58 
  - This is all a shell game..  sendero   Mar-24-09 06:30 PM   #50 
  - It isn't any better. And, Keep It Simple Stupid only works when you are trying to be honest  debbierlus   Mar-24-09 08:24 PM   #59 
  - Because it's privatized, not nationalized.  Marie26   Mar-25-09 10:59 AM   #77 
  - Risk is still nationalized here, and the profit is privatized  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:03 AM   #79 
     - are these swaps still allowed? if so, is it possible the deal could be bet against  Gin   Mar-25-09 11:09 AM   #81 
     - LOL. I couldn't imagine anyone thinking that was relatively a good idea.  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:12 AM   #83 
     - Exactly.  Marie26   Mar-25-09 11:16 AM   #86 
  - Because there isn't enough money in the world to buy them.  Doremus   Mar-25-09 11:14 AM   #84 
  - But something that I don't understand...  Oregone   Mar-25-09 11:24 AM   #89 
     - There isn't enough money in the world ..... literally.  Doremus   Mar-25-09 11:29 AM   #92 
        - You Are Confusing MBS With CDS  Beetwasher   Mar-25-09 11:35 AM   #93 
  - Bookmarked this thread  Irish Girl   Mar-25-09 12:43 PM   #99 

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