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Reply #79: Torture Is Obama's (And Our Nat'l) "Steroids Problem" [View All]

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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Mar-24-09 05:31 PM
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79. Torture Is Obama's (And Our Nat'l) "Steroids Problem"
The players who used -- Canseco, McGuire, now A-Rod, etc -- will never been seen as among the greats. And neither will President Barak Obama.

Yes, it's already too late. He has spent years choosing his own benefit over his/our treaty obligations. And his first steps in office have been to walk in lockstep with the torturers.

The stigma never goes away - nor should it.

He continues to drive the torture getaway car. His crime is in fact worse than bushcheneyism. Because while criminals might come and go, a corrupt police force endures and becomes institutionalized.

We need to stop rationalizing for him and for ourselves. Because that's the real core problem our nation faces (or rather, doesn't face -- reality). There is no "centrist" fence to sit upon on torture.

No, there's no quirk of "the system" that forces him into aiding and abetting these atrocities. No, there's no "missing evidence" that he's waiting to find. No, there's no "secret plan" that he's carrying out that will make up for his non-action to date.

No, closing Gitmo is simply removing the weather-beaten, crumbling eyesore from the national lawn. It is not real action either -- not for any humans. (Remember them? -- Years of torture at Gitmo and all they got was a lousy "Former Enemy Combatant" t-shirt.)

Nor is there reality in all the nice sounding rhetoric about how we're going to unring the bell by "going forward" (always forward -- blinders in place -- history to soon repeat).

No, we have no right to torture our way to "economic recovery." Yes, that's exactly what is being done. Because turning a blind eye to torture only prolongs the ordeal for the victim -- the crime is still in progress.

There is no hope for any real change while we remain complicit.

===
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  Turley is correct malaise  Mar-23-09 09:40 PM   #0 
   Goddam right he is. K & R.  navarth   Mar-23-09 09:42 PM   #1 
   I'm betting Cheney would STFU if a Special Prosecutor  malaise   Mar-23-09 09:48 PM   #4 
   Agreed  proud patriotLead Moderator   Mar-23-09 10:01 PM   #13 
   Ha, ha...  ihavenobias   Mar-24-09 11:42 AM   #54 
   Video HERE:  Hissyspit   Mar-24-09 02:31 AM   #32 
      Thanks Hissyspit  malaise   Mar-24-09 03:42 PM   #68 
   Mmmmmm Cheny in stripes, how delicious. Can't wait, it will happen  HysteryDiagnosis   Mar-23-09 09:47 PM   #2 
   Obama is treating Cheney with kid gloves  derby378   Mar-23-09 09:48 PM   #3 
   Was Ollie North's trial televised?  stillcool   Mar-23-09 09:55 PM   #10 
      Doesn't matter  derby378   Mar-23-09 10:01 PM   #12 
      No but they got their orders...  stillcool   Mar-23-09 10:10 PM   #14 
         Not this time...  derby378   Mar-23-09 10:19 PM   #16 
            I think something will happen...  stillcool   Mar-23-09 10:41 PM   #18 
      Ollie's testimony was televised.  BonnieJW   Mar-24-09 09:28 AM   #44 
         me too I remember Dawn his secretary also. Very pretty lady.  rainy   Mar-24-09 04:16 PM   #71 
         'member Mrs. North falling asleep during the televised trials?  sad sally   Mar-24-09 04:43 PM   #76 
   As Turley said, "just get out of the way"  HughMoran   Mar-23-09 09:48 PM   #5 
   That was a sublime putdown of the DOJ slow-walking the investigation  PDittie   Mar-23-09 09:48 PM   #6 
   It was awesome  malaise   Mar-23-09 09:53 PM   #9 
   I agree.  H2O Man   Mar-23-09 09:51 PM   #7 
   K&R Prosecute these evil bastards!  pleah   Mar-23-09 09:52 PM   # 
   It's important no doubt but in light of all of the crisis going on in  MadMaddie   Mar-23-09 09:52 PM   #8 
   I hope you're right  malaise   Mar-23-09 09:56 PM   #11 
   I agree and hope you're right.  Laurab   Mar-24-09 06:27 AM   #33 
   actually it's only been  barbtries   Mar-24-09 09:48 AM   #47 
   The longer the Obama administration waits to try these criminals,  JDPriestly   Mar-24-09 02:13 PM   #62 
      Good analogy!  Raksha   Mar-24-09 04:03 PM   #69 
      wow...just wow...reading it all together like this makes me mad all over  sad sally   Mar-24-09 04:53 PM   #77 
      Great post  malaise   Mar-24-09 09:11 PM   #93 
   we need a Special Prosecutor or this will never stop, they  bdamomma   Mar-23-09 10:19 PM   #15 
   Agree -------agree ----  defendandprotect   Mar-23-09 10:57 PM   #22 
   Turley for Special Prosecutor  boobooday   Mar-24-09 08:54 AM   #38 
      Or Supreme Court justice! n/t  sabrina 1   Mar-24-09 12:32 PM   #57 
   Yes and a thank you to Rachel  elizfeelinggreat   Mar-23-09 10:25 PM   #17 
   Rachel and Turley were great --- both of them=!  defendandprotect   Mar-23-09 10:58 PM   #23 
   ditto  glinda   Mar-24-09 12:35 AM   #30 
   Thanks to Rachel for having Gov. Richardson  disndat   Mar-24-09 06:18 PM   #86 
   Failure to prosecute is itself a crime.  Gregorian   Mar-23-09 10:43 PM   #19 
   Nicely put --- !!!  defendandprotect   Mar-23-09 10:49 PM   #21 
   When sepcificlly does it become a crime?  Freddie Stubbs   Mar-24-09 11:28 AM   #51 
   Essentially never. But it's nice to dream there's some driving force.  Gregorian   Mar-25-09 12:30 AM   #98 
   It is indeed a crime if Obama doesn't prosecute!  LaPera   Mar-24-09 02:44 PM   #65 
   Right . . . someone left that bit of info out of another thread . .. Turley was heavy on that--!!!  defendandprotect   Mar-23-09 10:49 PM   #20 
   Especially if you are a self proclaimed  Pastiche423   Mar-23-09 11:57 PM   #27 
   Self proclaimed??  malaise   Mar-24-09 06:32 AM   #34 
   It is the "professor" part that is in question  Pastiche423   Mar-24-09 02:11 PM   #61 
   Did he self-proclaim it himself?  tabatha   Mar-24-09 02:32 PM   #63 
      See link below  Pastiche423   Mar-24-09 03:40 PM   #66 
   Its the one thing he pledges to uphold when he takes the oath of office.  OwnedByFerrets   Mar-24-09 09:10 AM   #43 
   k&R  spanone   Mar-23-09 10:59 PM   #24 
   Step out of the way, Obama, and let justice prevail.  PinkyisBlue   Mar-23-09 11:49 PM   #25 
   "moving forward" or covering up?  G_j   Mar-23-09 11:53 PM   #26 
   Malloy just said it all  Iwillnevergiveup   Mar-23-09 11:57 PM   #28 
   "Wake up and smell the Republicans" . . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-24-09 01:08 AM   #31 
   Hells yeah! Right damn now!  lonestarnot   Mar-23-09 11:57 PM   #29 
   I wonder what Senator Dodd thinks about this.  elleng   Mar-24-09 06:55 AM   #35 
   Powder dry - check  peace frog   Mar-24-09 07:48 AM   #36 
   Enforce the law or be complicit. n/t  Jeroen   Mar-24-09 08:28 AM   #37 
   Obama must ask wall street about what to do!  BlueJac   Mar-24-09 08:59 AM   #39 
   Nobody is above the law...  Hubert Flottz   Mar-24-09 09:02 AM   #40 
   Good to see you Hubert  lebkuchen   Mar-24-09 04:21 PM   #73 
      Good to see you too.  Hubert Flottz   Mar-24-09 10:43 PM   #97 
         Can we change your moniker to  lebkuchen   Mar-25-09 03:45 PM   #99 
   I'm with Turley  Bluenorthwest   Mar-24-09 09:02 AM   #41 
   Too concerned that someone might download a song for free  OwnedByFerrets   Mar-24-09 09:09 AM   #42 
   Change would be prosecuting Team Bush  NewJeffCT   Mar-24-09 09:32 AM   #45 
   round 'em up and lock 'em up  barbtries   Mar-24-09 09:45 AM   #46 
   War crimes.  democrank   Mar-24-09 10:08 AM   #48 
   We can never ever let up N/T  Mira   Mar-24-09 10:08 AM   #49 
   I wish Turley would just pull Obama aside and say protect the law.  bdamomma   Mar-24-09 11:20 AM   #50 
   Kick!  go west young man   Mar-24-09 11:31 AM   #52 
   Obama will never move on this war crimes issue. He's not progressive, nor interested in 'the past.'  antimatter98   Mar-24-09 11:36 AM   #53 
   "Obama is a globalist-banking guy, not an American."  MadBadger   Mar-24-09 04:05 PM   #70 
   umm.... Scratches head and asks:  chknltl   Mar-24-09 05:28 PM   #78 
   As brazen as Cheney is now... just wait until  jtrockville   Mar-24-09 12:17 PM   #55 
   And that is why this bunch of criminals has to be locked up  malaise   Mar-24-09 03:41 PM   #67 
   don't forget, fellow DUer's, we are preachin' to the choir  veganlush   Mar-24-09 12:30 PM   #56 
   And let's not forget to tell President Obama how we feel...  GoddessOfGuinness   Mar-24-09 04:43 PM   #75 
      yes, that's what democracy is all about  veganlush   Mar-24-09 05:32 PM   #80 
         One of my senators replied to me about impeachment...  GoddessOfGuinness   Mar-24-09 05:41 PM   #82 
            would that be...  veganlush   Mar-24-09 05:58 PM   #83 
               It would be...  GoddessOfGuinness   Mar-24-09 09:01 PM   #92 
   Yes he is  Solly Mack   Mar-24-09 01:01 PM   #58 
   I know why he won't  zipplewrath   Mar-24-09 01:13 PM   #59 
   Uh, this is much worse than Lewinsky  lebkuchen   Mar-24-09 04:23 PM   #74 
   It NEEDS to be THE story for the next two years.  Kitty Herder   Mar-24-09 06:21 PM   #87 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-24-09 01:39 PM   #60 
   Turley is absolutely correct!!  GreenTea   Mar-24-09 02:42 PM   #64 
   obama is carrying MANY messages.... i like the ones he is attacking first  happygoluckytoyou   Mar-24-09 04:21 PM   #72 
   Torture Is Obama's (And Our Nat'l) "Steroids Problem"  Senator   Mar-24-09 05:31 PM   #79 
   K&R  leftstreet   Mar-24-09 05:35 PM   #81 
   Begs The Question . . .  Dinger   Mar-24-09 06:15 PM   #84 
   K&R  Kitty Herder   Mar-24-09 06:16 PM   #85 
   It WILL happen.  caseymoz   Mar-24-09 06:34 PM   #88 
   I'm hoping  malaise   Mar-24-09 09:12 PM   #94 
   I like to think he is using it as leverage to get things done that desperately need doing. I hope  Dollface   Mar-24-09 06:40 PM   #89 
   Turley is no liberal, either  josephT   Mar-24-09 06:40 PM   #90 
   (Explaining..) He is a law professor. He teaches law...  Piewhacket   Mar-24-09 09:18 PM   #96 
   Absolutely! nt  valerief   Mar-24-09 08:18 PM   #91 
   K&R! He's right, as are you...  Rhiannon12866   Mar-24-09 09:12 PM   #95 
 

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