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Reply #14: Which messages attributed to him do you choose not to embrace? [View All]

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Which messages attributed to him do you choose not to embrace?
The ones about beating slaves perhaps?

Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And that servant , which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.


He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have the poor with you always." (Mark 14:3-7)

Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New Testament is contradictory.

The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.") "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to invite further violence. "Love thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the peacemakers") are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for human life or values.

On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have shared some useful science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck in the first century).

Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma." No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.

Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

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  -Jesus Christ, You Really Rock! NanceGreggs  Mar-23-09 02:37 AM   #0 
  - I resent the culture of celebrity  Naturyl   Mar-23-09 02:44 AM   #1 
  - Does it help you that she was a nobody here once?  tavalon   Mar-23-09 03:06 AM   #5 
  - If it's true that the OP's writing has become better than ever it's also  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 06:18 AM   #18 
     - Yep, and it's a common refrain in our house to ask one another  tavalon   Mar-23-09 09:54 AM   #29 
  - Poor reading on my part  tavalon   Mar-23-09 03:08 AM   #6 
  - I don't K&R Nance's posts because she's a "celebrity."  Berry Cool   Mar-23-09 05:59 AM   #16 
  - Hear hear!  mzmolly   Mar-23-09 01:00 PM   #56 
  - hell, I see a post..ignore it ...look again and see all the recommends and if NanceGreggs name  angstlessk   Mar-23-09 02:33 PM   #86 
  - If someone is a really good ranter, and posts often enough--  eridani   Mar-23-09 01:40 PM   #68 
  - I rec what I find worth rec'ing, period.  tbyg52   Mar-24-09 06:19 PM   #194 
  - Since I can only recommend this once, here's  Heidi   Mar-23-09 02:59 AM   #2 
  - Wow, you just rather succinctly explained why I allow Jesus in my pantheon  tavalon   Mar-23-09 03:04 AM   #3 
  - I'm not a religious person but...  jeff30997   Mar-23-09 03:06 AM   #4 
  - If a message is truly valuable,  greyl   Mar-23-09 03:20 AM   #7 
  - If the message is truly valuable ...  NanceGreggs   Mar-23-09 03:42 AM   #9 
     - I didn't speak at all of who delivers a message.  greyl   Mar-23-09 03:45 AM   #10 
     - "Someone took a wrong turn ...  NanceGreggs   Mar-23-09 03:53 AM   #11 
        - You are forgiven. :) nt  greyl   Mar-23-09 03:54 AM   #12 
     - well, regardless of whether you missed anything,  BlancheSplanchnik   Mar-23-09 09:45 PM   #130 
  - Yet again you rock the sox!  Egnever   Mar-23-09 03:39 AM   #8 
  - K&R for all who embrace his message even if they don't worship him. nt  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 03:57 AM   #13 
  - Which messages attributed to him do you choose not to embrace?  greyl   Mar-23-09 04:09 AM   #14 
     - Yep. Another gem from jesus:  stopbush   Mar-23-09 11:37 AM   #43 
     - Glass is 99% full 1% empty. nt  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 12:26 PM   #48 
     - ?????  stopbush   Mar-23-09 12:43 PM   #51 
        - See my post #47. nt  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 12:53 PM   #52 
           - I guess I disagree with your conclusion that Jesus' message is one of peace and love.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 12:58 PM   #55 
              - Monarchies were the historical context  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 02:02 PM   #79 
              - I imagine we all interpret...  LanternWaste   Mar-23-09 03:01 PM   #91 
              - I disagree....  WarhammerTwo   Mar-23-09 04:24 PM   #101 
              - As long as you open the door to interpreting and misinterpreting, then one  stopbush   Mar-23-09 05:28 PM   #107 
                 - Alrighty (sighs)....  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 01:36 AM   #149 
                    - Thanks for your extensive response. You asked how your words contradict Jesus.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 11:09 AM   #158 
                       - I don't have time...  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 04:40 PM   #188 
                          - When you do have time, I'd love to hear your interpration of Jesus words:  stopbush   Mar-24-09 06:39 PM   #196 
                             - My Interpretation:  WarhammerTwo   Mar-25-09 03:51 PM   #210 
                                - Thanks for the extensive and deep response.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 07:08 PM   #214 
                                - Just wanted to mention that I have read Borg and Spong. I used to participate  stopbush   Mar-25-09 08:36 PM   #216 
                                - Oh, one more point on Jesus existing or not.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 11:05 PM   #217 
              - Jesus did not invent the "do unto others" thing...  AlbertCat   Mar-23-09 06:09 PM   #111 
                 - We must be told so we don't have to learn the hard way...again.  gtar100   Mar-24-09 01:00 AM   #146 
     - From Michael Hardin at Preaching Peace:  Critters2   Mar-23-09 08:19 PM   #121 
        - What does Aramaic have to do with it?  stopbush   Mar-24-09 07:11 PM   #198 
     - While you may find exceptions, the overall message is about peace and love  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 12:25 PM   #47 
     - Mithreal wrote...  jhrobbins   Mar-23-09 08:25 PM   #123 
        - I don't necessarily think most of these people intend to be cruel  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 09:43 PM   #129 
        - And their passion gets in the way of compassion. nt  Mithreal   Mar-24-09 03:50 AM   #153 
        - Oh, I should have said some modern day christians, ack.  Mithreal   Mar-23-09 09:46 PM   #131 
        - The problem  ImOnlySleeping   Mar-26-09 07:49 AM   #221 
     - Forehead. Smack.  spoony   Mar-23-09 02:58 PM   #89 
     - You berate poster #14 for engaging in the same cherry picking of scripture  stopbush   Mar-23-09 05:31 PM   #108 
     - Oh for christs pun intended.  zeemike   Mar-23-09 03:02 PM   #92 
     - The prophecy is coming true! If a message is truly valuable,  greyl   Mar-23-09 05:00 PM   #103 
     - I was replying to post 14  zeemike   Mar-23-09 07:49 PM   #116 
     - Not very well.  greyl   Mar-23-09 11:28 PM   #135 
        - i don't even know you how could I attack your shortcomings.  zeemike   Mar-24-09 06:32 AM   #154 
     - Respectfully disagree. Spiderman doesn't "exist," but look -- he catches  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 08:17 PM   #120 
        - Disagree with what? Something I didn't say?  greyl   Mar-23-09 11:23 PM   #134 
           - O but he is, greyl. No wait, of course he isn't. We're both right.  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 11:30 PM   #136 
     - Then debunk them for those of us in this forum.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 01:32 PM   #160 
     - Part of the fun of the New Testament is to navigate through its various  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 08:08 PM   #118 
  - I have no problem with Jesus or God for that matter.  Maestro   Mar-23-09 04:51 AM   #15 
  - O my, Ms. Greggs.  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 06:03 AM   #17 
  - A deeply moving post.  Joe Chi Minh   Mar-23-09 06:56 AM   #19 
  - Amen.  Cetacea   Mar-23-09 07:06 AM   #20 
  - I was invited to a memorial service by Jehovah's Witnesses  Christa   Mar-23-09 07:19 AM   #21 
  - The witnesses stopped coming to see me when I told them  notadmblnd   Mar-23-09 11:25 AM   # 
  - Hung from a cross, actually.  mr blur   Mar-23-09 07:27 AM   #22 
  - Hung and nailed, actually.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 09:33 AM   #205 
  - K&R  Owl   Mar-23-09 07:52 AM   #23 
  - Whence comes evil?  Deep13   Mar-23-09 08:19 AM   #24 
  - Just another compromised bull shit so called holy day.  L0oniX   Mar-23-09 08:40 AM   #25 
  - If it were left to me, I'd shift the doctrinal abstractions in Easter away from  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 08:50 AM   #26 
     - And the Peeps. Don't forget the Peeps!  dgibby   Mar-23-09 09:19 AM   #27 
     - Peeps? Definitely.  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 09:20 AM   #28 
     - I would rather be nailed to a cross than to eat a Peep  nichomachus   Mar-23-09 09:58 AM   #32 
     - The Jesus of Peeps disagrees  progressoid   Mar-23-09 12:31 PM   #49 
     - indeed  donquijoterocket   Mar-23-09 12:54 PM   #53 
     - FREE THE PEEPS!!!!  Heidi   Mar-23-09 10:05 AM   #34 
     - Bunnies and eggs are part and parcel with the renewal and regeneration theme  tavalon   Mar-23-09 09:58 AM   #31 
        - The Bunny's are from a pagan god religion which celebrated Ishtar the fertilization goddess.  L0oniX   Mar-23-09 01:51 PM   #73 
        - Made me laugh out loud  tavalon   Mar-23-09 09:14 PM   #128 
        - Sounds to me like you're doin' it right.  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 07:52 PM   #117 
           - Absolutely!  tavalon   Mar-23-09 09:13 PM   #127 
              - And during which, may I beg the heavens, you have plenty of chocolate  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 11:38 PM   #137 
  - Jesus must have been one cool dude...  kentuck   Mar-23-09 09:56 AM   #30 
  - ...  azmouse   Mar-23-09 10:44 AM   #38 
  - Especially as there's no one else that we still talk about who lived that long ago...  stopbush   Mar-23-09 01:15 PM   #61 
  - I've been known to talk about "Lucy".  AlbertCat   Mar-23-09 08:45 PM   #124 
  - Do you think Americans would still flock to Jesus if it was proven that  stopbush   Mar-23-09 01:17 PM   #62 
  - human beings always confuse the message and the man...  annabanana   Mar-23-09 09:59 AM   #33 
  - I was raised Catholic, and am consistently amazed at how many totally overlook the crucial aspects..  Echo In Light   Mar-23-09 10:13 AM   #35 
  - And some of us are constantly amazed as well...  Baby Snooks   Mar-23-09 02:51 PM   #87 
     - That's the Catholic Church.  WarhammerTwo   Mar-23-09 04:16 PM   #100 
     - So our UCC is completely cool...  AlbertCat   Mar-23-09 08:51 PM   #125 
        - Christians cannot be cool with what the Bible condemns...  Baby Snooks   Mar-23-09 11:51 PM   #139 
        - The Bible condemns a lot of shit...  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 12:48 AM   #145 
        - Ooookay....  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 12:33 AM   #144 
        - Hey AlbertCat  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 10:18 AM   #157 
     - All fine and well, but I wasn't referring to the church as an institution...  Echo In Light   Mar-24-09 02:39 PM   #168 
  - There are better fictional characters that weren't quite so crazy to praise.  cobalt1999   Mar-23-09 10:32 AM   #36 
  - Agreed, but the same would inevitably be applied to any placed on a pedestal  Echo In Light   Mar-23-09 10:56 AM   #39 
  - Agreed with reply #1, normally don't wanna encourage the "2 minutes hate" routine...  newtothegame   Mar-23-09 10:39 AM   #37 
  - My dear Nance ...  CaliforniaPeggy   Mar-23-09 11:09 AM   #40 
  - My favourite fictional character is Superman...  SidDithers   Mar-23-09 11:19 AM   #41 
  - I like Superman well enough but am more strongly drawn to the Marvel  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 08:23 PM   #122 
  - Kicked and recommended.  Uncle Joe   Mar-23-09 11:25 AM   #42 
  - You know what would have "rocked" the world if said by Jesus?:  stopbush   Mar-23-09 11:47 AM   #44 
  - Not all Christians take the Bible literally. It's really the evangelicals who have  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-23-09 01:04 PM   #57 
  - Q. What do you call a Biblical "fact" that has been disproved?  stopbush   Mar-23-09 01:10 PM   #58 
     - Yep. Like there _really_ was no rain or water cycle until the great flood. As if.  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-23-09 01:13 PM   #60 
        - As if the Hebrews and every other culture didn't know murder was wrong  stopbush   Mar-23-09 01:30 PM   #63 
           - As if the first people on the planet had no belly buttons!  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-23-09 01:35 PM   #65 
              - Depends on where in our evolutionary history you wish to call us people.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 01:47 PM   #72 
                 - Hmmm.. Don't all mammals have belly buttons? (Rolls cat over for a look)  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-23-09 02:01 PM   #77 
                    - Not monotremes n/t  H2O Man   Mar-23-09 02:07 PM   #80 
                    - Well, true. I should have thought of Mr. and Mrs. Platypus from Mr. Rogers neighborhood.  GreenPartyVoter   Mar-23-09 02:09 PM   #82 
                    - Yes. Ours are just larger and leave a big scar.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 05:22 PM   #106 
                       - but a pretty scar imo  chknltl   Mar-23-09 06:19 PM   #113 
  - What question would you ask....  chknltl   Mar-23-09 02:23 PM   #85 
     - Easy. I'd ask for confirmation of the Big Bang theory.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 11:17 PM   #133 
        - OK, Thank You  chknltl   Mar-24-09 01:12 AM   #147 
  - Very good.  H2O Man   Mar-23-09 11:50 AM   #45 
  - Amen, sister, Amen!!!  WCGreen   Mar-23-09 11:53 AM   #46 
  - Rock me, rock me, rock me sexy Jesus  progressoid   Mar-23-09 12:36 PM   #50 
  - Thanks Nance  MrBlueSky   Mar-23-09 12:57 PM   #54 
  - Well, Jesus did have a really mixed message  nichomachus   Mar-23-09 01:11 PM   #59 
  - and how did He do that? Greed is a sin remember?  Liberal_Christian   Mar-23-09 01:36 PM   #66 
  - Remember the parable  nichomachus   Mar-23-09 01:38 PM   #67 
     - Parable of debtors(Luke)  Liberal_Christian   Mar-23-09 04:12 PM   #99 
     - "The children of this World are wiser after their own fashion than the Chidren of Light"  Joe Chi Minh   Mar-24-09 06:17 PM   #193 
        - And others of us find Christ's teachings loathsome, rather than awesome.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 07:56 PM   #200 
        - What are you basing your accusations on?  Liberal_Christian   Mar-25-09 01:09 PM   #208 
           - Either you didn't read my post or you don't comprehend what I'm saying.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 04:58 PM   #212 
              - "Now is the winter of our discontent..."  Liberal_Christian   Mar-26-09 12:09 AM   #218 
                 - Pretty pathetic response, LC.  stopbush   Mar-26-09 01:13 AM   #219 
                    - The only thing that's pathetic...  Liberal_Christian   Mar-26-09 04:28 AM   #220 
                       - Thanks for the lengthy post.  stopbush   Mar-26-09 10:30 AM   #222 
                       - Pot calling the kettle black  Liberal_Christian   Mar-26-09 08:55 PM   #225 
                          - Gee, I'm sorry. I thought the point of debate was to expand upon one's argument.  stopbush   Mar-26-09 09:40 PM   #228 
                             - You win.  Liberal_Christian   Mar-26-09 10:24 PM   #230 
                                - Only 101 posts into your career at DU and that's it?  stopbush   Mar-27-09 09:27 AM   #235 
                       - Your post got me thinking about those money exchangers. You wrote:  stopbush   Mar-26-09 02:10 PM   #223 
                          - In which translation does John describe Jesus as using the whip  Critters2   Mar-26-09 07:26 PM   #224 
                          - It's the KJV. To whit:  stopbush   Mar-26-09 09:16 PM   #226 
                             - A Girardian (or, as I like to say, correct) exegesis of the cleansing of the temple  Critters2   Mar-26-09 10:36 PM   #231 
                             - Thanks for #3. The problem with this one starts with the opening sentence:  stopbush   Mar-27-09 10:00 AM   #238 
                             - More from Bredin on the temple:  Critters2   Mar-26-09 10:39 PM   #232 
                             - Thanks for that as well.  stopbush   Mar-27-09 09:51 AM   #237 
                             - On Jesus, the temple and the whip  Critters2   Mar-26-09 10:46 PM   #234 
                                - Thanks for that. I've actually seen that before.  stopbush   Mar-27-09 09:47 AM   #236 
                          - Wow. What ever happened to understanding context?  Liberal_Christian   Mar-26-09 09:22 PM   #227 
                             - I appreciate your explaining the money changers and their role in the process.  stopbush   Mar-26-09 09:58 PM   #229 
        - Thank You!  Liberal_Christian   Mar-25-09 12:51 PM   #206 
           - Perhaps they're reading and thinking for themselves.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 08:29 PM   #215 
  - You are absolutely right. Most people don't realize that all 4 gospels  prostock69   Mar-23-09 03:10 PM   #93 
  - You are absolutely right. Most people don't realize that all 4 gospels  prostock69   Mar-23-09 03:10 PM   #94 
  - FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! A non-believer familiar with scripture!  Liberal_Christian   Mar-23-09 01:33 PM   #64 
  - What language did you read the NT in?  nichomachus   Mar-23-09 01:41 PM   #70 
  - Yes I did know that...  Liberal_Christian   Mar-23-09 03:42 PM   #97 
  - It's been my experience that many non-believers are more familiar with scripture than are believers.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 10:59 PM   #132 
  - That's interesting  ChickMagic   Mar-24-09 01:41 PM   #161 
     - Read it again  Liberal_Christian   Mar-25-09 12:59 PM   #207 
  - Jesus was a cool dude. If he wasn't real, he should have been.  TexasObserver   Mar-23-09 01:40 PM   #69 
  - People have thought that for about four or five thousand years  nichomachus   Mar-23-09 01:44 PM   #71 
  - Like Thomas Jefferson, I don't believe all the mythological malarkey found in the New Testament.  TexasObserver   Mar-23-09 01:55 PM   #74 
     - That's exactly how I see it.  jeff30997   Mar-23-09 02:07 PM   #81 
        - Don't see it that way, personally  mvd   Mar-23-09 03:18 PM   #96 
        - Thanks!  TexasObserver   Mar-23-09 07:05 PM   #115 
  - Yeah, kinda like this ...  NanceGreggs   Mar-23-09 01:57 PM   #76 
  - Yes! Exactly like that!!  TexasObserver   Mar-23-09 02:01 PM   #78 
  - oh, we know how these false believers, who we can see are fake by their actions, would treat Jesus  Divine Discontent   Mar-23-09 02:09 PM   #83 
  - It's nice to see a positive post from a non-believer  mvd   Mar-23-09 03:14 PM   #95 
     - "...often Jesus's life gets lost among the arguing over what is real and what isn't."  greyl   Mar-23-09 11:54 PM   #140 
  - OMG! That's great !  jeff30997   Mar-23-09 02:14 PM   #84 
  - Actually, Jesus would probably be arrested for vagrancy and for mooching off others.  stopbush   Mar-23-09 11:55 PM   #141 
  - If he was real --- IMO he was a man, no more, no less....  RiverStone   Mar-23-09 11:56 PM   #142 
  - No, the honor of "original rabble-rousing liberal activist" would have to go to Socrates,  stopbush   Mar-24-09 07:27 PM   #199 
  - maybe I'm a fool for believing everything this Jesus fella said...  Divine Discontent   Mar-23-09 01:55 PM   #75 
  - The Bible certainly has..  mvd   Mar-23-09 04:05 PM   #98 
     - "believe" is the word we must look at closely  Tigermoose   Mar-23-09 05:17 PM   #105 
        - Interesting way of looking at it  mvd   Mar-23-09 06:56 PM   #114 
        - That's how I look at it...  WarhammerTwo   Mar-24-09 01:49 AM   #151 
        - Love is the emotional bedrock  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 02:22 PM   #163 
        - The only real distinction that needs be made is between "believing" a thing and "knowing" a thing.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 02:35 PM   #167 
           - Our beliefs are based first upon emotion - you discount emotion as a valid source  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 02:55 PM   #169 
              - But today's "mythologies" are testable and provable.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:09 PM   #172 
              - Please "prove" the free market, or capitalism, or democracy to me.  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 03:24 PM   #174 
                 - I agree with you that our systematic worldviews are based upon  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:38 PM   #176 
                    - I agree. Jesus is not a religion, but a way of being with God in the world.  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 03:46 PM   #178 
                       - Yes, I can agree with you on the general point that  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:53 PM   #180 
                          - We can not propositionally prove they are Jesus' words.  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 04:03 PM   #182 
                             - It could be that the "real" words of Jesus are the nasty, distasteful ones,  stopbush   Mar-24-09 05:13 PM   #191 
              - I would add that while emotion is certainly a valid source, ie: a starting point  stopbush   Mar-24-09 06:50 PM   #197 
  - I'm a follower and  sellitman   Mar-23-09 02:52 PM   #88 
  - "You nailed it again."  BobTheSubgenius   Mar-23-09 05:48 PM   #109 
     - Oh my!  sellitman   Mar-24-09 06:58 AM   #156 
  - Lol, people must've just seen the word Jesus and went into attack mode  spoony   Mar-23-09 03:01 PM   #90 
  - Thanks, Nance!  DailyGrind51   Mar-23-09 04:28 PM   #102 
  - Jesus is a way of having a loving relationship with God and man.  Tigermoose   Mar-23-09 05:12 PM   #104 
  - Tsk, tsk....  Baby Snooks   Mar-24-09 12:00 AM   #143 
     - which also explains why there is always so much pork in legislation  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 02:27 PM   #165 
  - Can I get an "Amen!"?  BobTheSubgenius   Mar-23-09 06:00 PM   #110 
  - I am not worthy! K&R  ddeclue   Mar-23-09 06:11 PM   #112 
  - wait  lost-in-nj   Mar-23-09 08:16 PM   #119 
  - Prince of Peace, Good shepherd, Son of Man, Savior  RedCloud   Mar-23-09 09:03 PM   #126 
  - Plus, Hercules could clean out a stables with expeditious aplomb.  saltpoint   Mar-23-09 11:39 PM   #138 
  - Of course  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 02:32 PM   #166 
  - If you think Jesus doesn't rock, watch this video.  obiwan   Mar-24-09 01:33 AM   #148 
  - What was the question?  omega minimo   Mar-24-09 01:37 AM   #150 
  - The Mars-hill pastor in Seattle  ismnotwasm   Mar-24-09 02:05 AM   #152 
  - ugh! what DRIVEL by mr driscoll! I loved your slam at the end of his sick opinion of a bully-Christ  Divine Discontent   Mar-24-09 01:06 PM   #159 
     - Hate to disagree, but you are ignoring the Jesus of Revelation  stopbush   Mar-24-09 02:13 PM   #162 
        - The Bible is not divine. It has unfortunately become an icon.  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 02:26 PM   #164 
        - Your opinion, of course, and you're welcome to it.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:04 PM   #170 
           - Me neither. But maintaining the strawman that all Christians do is disingenuous. (nt)  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 03:10 PM   #173 
           - Is it a strawman? Why don't all Christians embrace the whole of Jesus' message,  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:41 PM   #177 
              - People confuse Christianity the Religion with Jesus as The Way.  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 03:55 PM   #181 
           - Why is it SO hard for some atheists to admit that not all Christians interpret the Bible the same?  WildEyedLiberal   Mar-24-09 03:50 PM   #179 
              - We atheists only WISH that all Xians interpreted the Bible the same way.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 04:07 PM   #184 
                 - The emotional basis of Christian cannot be intellectually discussed  Tigermoose   Mar-24-09 04:15 PM   #185 
                 - If - as I believe - Jesus didn't exist and god doesn't exist, then all we're left with is Spam.  stopbush   Mar-24-09 05:32 PM   #192 
                 - Yeah, "Jesus died for your sins" is about the only thing all branches have in common  WildEyedLiberal   Mar-24-09 10:30 PM   #201 
                    - Indeed, the rituals of religion are compelling as they fulfill our seemingly  stopbush   Mar-25-09 01:03 AM   #204 
                       - You'd have to ask those people how they define being "Christian" then  WildEyedLiberal   Mar-25-09 01:10 PM   #209 
                          - I appreciate your terming the OT "an interesting historical record of the rituals and practices  stopbush   Mar-25-09 04:45 PM   #211 
                             - I view the OT more or less as I do the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Iliad  WildEyedLiberal   Mar-25-09 06:29 PM   #213 
        - Look  ismnotwasm   Mar-24-09 03:05 PM   #171 
        - Your point is taken, but I must again ask, why bother?  stopbush   Mar-24-09 03:28 PM   #175 
        - i could probably quote three lines from the bible  hiphopnation   Mar-24-09 04:04 PM   #183 
        - I disagree that I'm the one assigning labels. You label yourself as a  stopbush   Mar-24-09 04:39 PM   #187 
           - You doth protest too much  hiphopnation   Mar-24-09 04:58 PM   #189 
           - You doth protest too much  hiphopnation   Mar-24-09 04:58 PM   #190 
        - your wild stab is just that... but thanks.  Divine Discontent   Mar-24-09 04:19 PM   #186 
           - Thanks for your comment. I'm not looking to be a conversationalist,  stopbush   Mar-24-09 06:20 PM   #195 
              - If you're truly interested, there's local clergy who'd gladly answer you  Divine Discontent   Mar-25-09 12:02 AM   #202 
                 - Been there, done that. Continue to do that when the opportunity arises.  stopbush   Mar-25-09 12:38 AM   #203 
  - K&R  20score   Mar-24-09 06:51 AM   #155 
  - Always good to be reminded that I'm going to hell.  BlooInBloo   Mar-26-09 10:40 PM   #233 

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