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Reply #112: Merit pay is additional pay on top of your regular salary, from what [View All]

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
112. Merit pay is additional pay on top of your regular salary, from what
I understand. Personally I'd welcome the chance at getting a bit more money for the extra effort.
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  -I Agree With Merit Pay And I Don't See What's So Damn Hard About Determining Who Is A Good Teacher mudesi  Mar-12-09 08:13 PM   #0 
  - No problem at all if..  ananda   Mar-12-09 08:15 PM   #1 
  - and the potential of cliques running the show on who gets *merit*  Donnachaidh   Mar-12-09 08:17 PM   #3 
  - I think that smaller classrooms are more important in retaining  midnight   Mar-12-09 08:16 PM   #2 
  - The core problem is that we  SheilaT   Mar-12-09 08:25 PM   #12 
  - A classroom of ten or twelve is really optimal in secondary school or the  struggle4progress   Mar-12-09 10:50 PM   #95 
  - how small do you want?  Joe Fields   Mar-12-09 11:06 PM   #98 
     - Joe, that's the avg. it's SUPPOSED TO BE, NOT what IS.  Fire1   Mar-13-09 08:54 AM   #144 
  - I have no problem with that.  muntrv   Mar-12-09 08:17 PM   #4 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-12-09 08:17 PM   #5 
  - I think one of the objections is that  navarth   Mar-12-09 08:18 PM   #6 
  - the same thing occurs in other merit pay environments  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 08:26 PM   #15 
     - But in this case, the "project from hell" means teaching in a struggling school  KamaAina   Mar-12-09 08:36 PM   #34 
        - Right you are  Canuckistanian   Mar-12-09 08:41 PM   #40 
        - Merit pay shouldn't be judged nationally or statewide  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 08:42 PM   #41 
        - Indeed. Let's pit teacher against teacher!  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 08:48 PM   #49 
        - all professionals are judged compared to other professionals  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 08:53 PM   #53 
           - What you are doing is directly pitting teacher against teacher  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 10:13 PM   #88 
              - so in your belief other professions don't need to cooperate  Fresh_Start   Mar-13-09 08:40 AM   #141 
        - I agree  Johonny   Mar-13-09 09:03 AM   #147 
        - just out of curiosity are the base salaries the same  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 08:47 PM   #48 
        - No the base salaries are probably not the same  proud2BlibKansan   Mar-13-09 08:58 AM   #145 
           - actually, no, there goes your objection  Fresh_Start   Mar-13-09 05:53 PM   #163 
        - Which is why Obama wants to pay teachers more to teach in struggling schools  Hippo_Tron   Mar-12-09 11:24 PM   #103 
  - I've always worked in a merit pay environment  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 08:19 PM   #7 
  - Because it's not so easy to quantify "good"  Sabriel   Mar-12-09 08:19 PM   #8 
  - Yes It Is Easy. I Just Gave Several Examples  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:24 PM   #11 
  - Did all the students agree with you?  rwheeler31   Mar-12-09 08:34 PM   #30 
  - Oh yes, let's make teaching a popularity contest!  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 08:34 PM   # 
  - "The students" generally can't  Posteritatis   Mar-12-09 11:51 PM   #109 
  - ROFL!  Lyric   Mar-13-09 06:37 AM   #130 
  - The "good" teachers make the students feel good, whether they learn anything or not.  eppur_se_muova   Mar-13-09 03:29 PM   #161 
  - teaching to the test and high stakes testing are things that obama is  mopinko   Mar-12-09 09:44 PM   #83 
  - What's in their place?  Posteritatis   Mar-12-09 11:53 PM   #110 
     - Ultimately, it will come down to 'testing,' as a measure of  Fire1   Mar-13-09 09:14 AM   #152 
     - it is only dividing them into the good half and the bad half.  mopinko   Mar-13-09 09:35 AM   #157 
  - My husband and I are university professors and we know it is by no means easy to determine this.  anneboleyn   Mar-12-09 11:45 PM   #108 
  - Devil's advocate question  av8rdave   Mar-12-09 08:19 PM   #9 
  - If you cannot see the problem I am sorry your education  rwheeler31   Mar-12-09 08:24 PM   #10 
  - Sounds To Me More Like A Bunch Of Bad Teachers On DU Making Excuses  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:25 PM   #14 
     - "Because when we talk to you like grown ups, you don't listen."  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 08:28 PM   # 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-12-09 08:28 PM   #20 
     - Not a bunch, just a couple.  NYC_SKP   Mar-12-09 08:31 PM   #24 
     - I think we have a lot of shit-ass parents here  Hello_Kitty   Mar-12-09 08:37 PM   #35 
     - There's always a group of people who go for blaming individuals  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 08:42 PM   #44 
        - It's why they valorize the rugged individual  Hello_Kitty   Mar-12-09 08:44 PM   #47 
        - Right. Rugged rules for everyone else, individual for them.  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 08:48 PM   #50 
        - WhooooHooooo!!! Stop telling the truth!!!!  Fire1   Mar-13-09 09:21 AM   #155 
     - We are dealing with children not numbers.  rwheeler31   Mar-12-09 08:39 PM   #38 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-12-09 08:51 PM   #52 
     - I'm thinking I wouldn't have wanted my son to be taught by any of them.  Joe Fields   Mar-12-09 11:10 PM   #100 
     - And I'll bet some of them are thinking  proud2BlibKansan   Mar-13-09 09:04 AM   #148 
     - I agree. Mediocre teachers defending their positions and seniority.  Odin2005   Mar-13-09 09:09 AM   #150 
  - Teachers do have performance reviews every year. I am a teacher and work  Riley18   Mar-12-09 08:25 PM   #13 
  - How About With The Examples I Gave?  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:27 PM   #18 
  - Do you want to go home with the teacher and count the  rwheeler31   Mar-12-09 08:44 PM   # 
  - What about the ones we hated because they weren't very nice?  eridani   Mar-13-09 06:13 AM   #126 
  - Merit pay is additional pay on top of your regular salary, from what  Lorien   Mar-13-09 01:20 AM   #112 
  - thank god you've put it all in perspective for us.  ulysses   Mar-12-09 08:26 PM   #16 
  - Thank God You Can't Say A Single Thing Other Than To Post A Rolling Eye Emoticon (NM)  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:28 PM   #19 
     - the op didn't seem to require more.  ulysses   Mar-12-09 08:29 PM   #21 
        - Guess It Means I'm Right Then  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:32 PM   #25 
           - believe as you will.  ulysses   Mar-12-09 08:32 PM   #28 
           - Do You Have Anything To Say, Or Do You Just Want To Keep Kicking My Thread? (nm)  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:34 PM   #32 
              - I'm happy to keep kicking the thread  ulysses   Mar-12-09 08:37 PM   #37 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-12-09 08:57 PM   #60 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-12-09 08:57 PM   #61 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-12-09 09:03 PM   #67 
              - When They Have Nothing To Say, They Call You A Troll  mudesi   Mar-12-09 09:07 PM   #69 
                 - OOOOH,, ouch, that hurt....weep weep N/T  schlarmie   Mar-12-09 09:18 PM   #74 
                    - Really...you should knock it off. You're being annoying.  Squatch   Mar-12-09 09:35 PM   #78 
                       - Squatch!  Marrah_G   Mar-13-09 07:07 AM   #132 
                          - Hey-ya!  Squatch   Mar-13-09 08:15 AM   #136 
                             - So glad you got home, even if briefly.  Marrah_G   Mar-13-09 08:26 AM   #137 
                             - Congratulations on 1/2  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 08:34 AM   #139 
                                - R&R was great...travel, not so much.  Squatch   Mar-13-09 08:42 AM   #142 
                                   - BTDT  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 09:13 AM   #151 
                                      - Yeah...3 days at BAF is too much  Squatch   Mar-13-09 09:44 AM   #159 
  - Because the problem lies with the system...  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 08:27 PM   #17 
  - Thank you!  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 08:30 PM   #22 
  - But It's Not About Blame Or Scapegoating  mudesi   Mar-12-09 08:30 PM   #23 
  - of course it is.  ulysses   Mar-12-09 08:32 PM   #26 
  - If you seriously believe that the answer to 30 frigging years  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 08:34 PM   #31 
  - If you think that Obama's education plan is  Bodhi BloodWave   Mar-13-09 03:49 AM   #121 
  - The problem is is that you are suggesting  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 08:37 PM   #36 
  - Merit pay is about rewarding teachers who  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 09:00 PM   #64 
     - Did Obama say that standardized tests would be used? In the schools I  Lorien   Mar-12-09 09:31 PM   #76 
        - Ahaha!!!!  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 10:20 PM   #91 
           - I don't think he is putting the entire burden of reform on teachers  Lorien   Mar-13-09 01:16 AM   #111 
              - Because the quality and condition of a teacher's raw materials  Luminous Animal   Mar-13-09 02:09 AM   #118 
                 - That's part of what  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 08:30 AM   #138 
                    - Seems pretty obvious you weren't teaching English.  tangent90   Mar-13-09 09:19 AM   #153 
  - True, and an excellent analogy....  NYC_SKP   Mar-12-09 08:33 PM   #29 
  - You can't be any more productive  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 08:42 PM   #42 
     - Where I see mandated adopted texts used and timelines for implementation...  NYC_SKP   Mar-12-09 08:56 PM   #58 
  - Thank you LA for articulating the biggest problem...  prairierose   Mar-12-09 08:53 PM   #54 
  - Well, I think the point is that good teachers can be lost with merit pay.  snappyturtle   Mar-12-09 08:32 PM   #27 
  - You didn't all agree, though.  knitter4democracy   Mar-12-09 08:36 PM   #33 
  - They're just making shit up....  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 08:40 PM   #39 
  - I was going to vehemently disagree with you  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 09:12 PM   #71 
  - :) The 4x pay is to buy off the dim-bobs currently inhabiting teacher-space...  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 09:38 PM   #79 
     - why do you think the dim-bulbs inhabiting teacher space  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 09:40 PM   #81 
        - They gotta retire someday, attrition due to lack of advancement...  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 09:45 PM   #84 
           - why would you want to pay them 4x until they reach retirement?  Fresh_Start   Mar-12-09 09:46 PM   #85 
              - Cost of bringing about substantial change, that the entrenched dim-bobbery will go along with.  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 09:49 PM   #86 
  - Quadruple people's pay? Do you know what the average salary is  Joe Fields   Mar-13-09 01:55 AM   #115 
  - Obviously we don't "all know" or all agree on what makes a good or bad teacher.  last_texas_dem   Mar-12-09 08:42 PM   #43 
  - Enabeling Parents  schlarmie   Mar-12-09 08:43 PM   #45 
  - Educational values begin at home, like all values.  kwassa   Mar-12-09 10:18 PM   #90 
  - If you agree with merit pay, then you need to let the  norepubsin08   Mar-12-09 08:44 PM   #46 
  - My raises are merit-based, and I don't get to pick my projects...  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 08:54 PM   #57 
  - kids are too variable  norepubsin08   Mar-12-09 08:56 PM   #59 
  - I don't control what the people I work with do either.  BlooInBloo   Mar-12-09 08:58 PM   #63 
     - Who said that you did?  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 10:26 PM   #92 
  - It isn't different for teachers, they're evaluated all the time. AND at the same time  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 09:04 PM   #68 
  - I work on many projects  Luminous Animal   Mar-12-09 09:13 PM   #72 
  - Nope. Deal with it. Deal with the parents, inspire the students,  Joe Fields   Mar-13-09 01:57 AM   #116 
     - Tell that to the police when they complain that they are underfunded  U4ikLefty   Mar-13-09 02:23 AM   #119 
  - Short Answer: Because Schools Aren't Businesses  tonysam   Mar-12-09 08:49 PM   #51 
  - Yes they are. Someone has to run them and set the rules. If you  babylonsister   Mar-12-09 09:38 PM   #80 
  - Let the students decide. n/t  Mnemosyne    Mar-12-09 08:53 PM   #55 
  - The problem is that the kids, or parents, probably wouldn't be the ones making the determination  KamaAina   Mar-12-09 08:54 PM   #56 
  - And I'm Not Saying Kids And Parents Should Make It  mudesi   Mar-12-09 09:11 PM   #70 
     - Adding parents to the process would have as a salutary side effect  KamaAina   Mar-12-09 09:24 PM   #75 
     - Parents can have an extremely negative effect, as well.  kwassa   Mar-12-09 10:35 PM   #94 
     - A teacher is largely a small independent businessman.  kwassa   Mar-12-09 10:29 PM   #93 
     - Really? So in order to avoid making their "customers" unhappy--  eridani   Mar-13-09 06:18 AM   #127 
     - You Absolutely hit the  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 08:53 AM   #143 
     - I think it's been pointed out numerous times, on this thread alone  Fire1   Mar-13-09 09:44 AM   #160 
  - Here's the problem with your argument.  JackDragna   Mar-12-09 08:57 PM   #62 
  - That was fun, take a break , then on to the next nut wad.  rwheeler31   Mar-12-09 09:00 PM   #65 
  - I just sprained something...  ulysses   Mar-12-09 09:02 PM   #66 
  - FIST BUMP  schlarmie   Mar-12-09 09:14 PM   #73 
  - Merit pay is a bad idea.  Laelth   Mar-12-09 09:34 PM   #77 
  - I think it can be subjective. How will they determine which teacher is  babylonsister   Mar-12-09 09:42 PM   #82 
  - Great question...n/t  FLyellowdog   Mar-12-09 10:16 PM   #89 
  - I am considering a post-Army career as a teacher  Squatch   Mar-12-09 09:50 PM   #87 
  - Squatch! Great response, and I hope you are doing well!  babylonsister   Mar-12-09 11:22 PM   #102 
  - Doing great, thank you!  Squatch   Mar-12-09 11:28 PM   #106 
     - So very cool you are here and got to see your baby!  babylonsister   Mar-12-09 11:32 PM   #107 
  - Good Luck With That Squatch  ProfessorGAC   Mar-13-09 05:35 AM   #124 
  - Yes. Strive to be more productive by firing all your bad apples n/t  eridani   Mar-13-09 06:20 AM   #128 
  - Careful there Major  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 09:01 AM   #146 
  - Have you ever been a teacher? Have you ever grown up  liberalhistorian   Mar-12-09 10:54 PM   #96 
  - That's not fair...  Squatch   Mar-12-09 11:09 PM   #99 
     - We did consider the merits of the argument.  Hanse   Mar-13-09 01:23 AM   #114 
  - We do have performance reviews.  roody   Mar-12-09 10:58 PM   #97 
  - "We all knew who the good ones were ..."  bvar22   Mar-12-09 11:15 PM   #101 
  - you & bush & the rest of the ruling class.  Hannah Bell   Mar-12-09 11:25 PM   #104 
  - Perhaps it would be helpful for mudesi and some others to read this OP to get a bit  bertman   Mar-12-09 11:26 PM   #105 
  - If DUers got merit pay for good posts, you'd get docked for back pay.  Hanse   Mar-13-09 01:21 AM   #113 
  - good thing they don't dock us for snark. We'd all lose out.  Joe Fields   Mar-13-09 02:00 AM   #117 
  - It's late at night, so without reading all the up-thread stuff...  RiverStone   Mar-13-09 02:34 AM   #120 
  - Absolutely Correct!  CRK7376   Mar-13-09 09:06 AM   #149 
  - That's becuase you aren't one.  Political Heretic   Mar-13-09 03:52 AM   #122 
  - Actually I was recently thinking that we should survey the kids about that question  lostnfound   Mar-13-09 05:27 AM   #123 
  - my experience with "merit" or "performance" pay  radfringe   Mar-13-09 05:39 AM   #125 
  - Because, more often than not,  timtom   Mar-13-09 06:22 AM   #129 
  - Students can't tell who the good and the bad teachers are.  Donald Ian Rankin   Mar-13-09 06:48 AM   #131 
  - Define "mathematician" please. eom  asteroid2003QQ47   Mar-13-09 08:03 AM   #134 
     - One who studies mathematics.  Donald Ian Rankin   Mar-13-09 08:07 AM   #135 
        - Thank you. As one who has struggled with mathematics...  asteroid2003QQ47   Mar-13-09 08:34 AM   #140 
  - "Determining Who Is A Good Teacher" not "hard" IF...  asteroid2003QQ47   Mar-13-09 08:00 AM   #133 
  - but students largely aren't and never will be equipped to make that determination  kwassa   Mar-13-09 09:32 AM   #156 
  - Merit pay  garry6882   Mar-13-09 09:20 AM   #154 
  - Merit pay is based on who's the BEST ASS KISSER!  B Calm   Mar-13-09 09:37 AM   #158 
  - What are the objective measurements used to determine this?  LanternWaste   Mar-13-09 03:38 PM   #162 
 

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