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Reply #78: OMG! This post gave me chills! [View All]

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. OMG! This post gave me chills!
You really did hit on something here. It truly is hard to trust once you've been wronged. Spot on.

We lost our sense of community when the busing started. Instead of wasting money on traipsing poor exhausted school kids around town, adding to the pollution and the kids' exposure to same, they should have used that money for the schools! If anything, change the teachers around, not the students? That money could have been used to make sure that all of our schools were equally staffed and supplied.

I feel betrayed by my early academic experience, as do my kids. They can all read and write, more because of their parents than their school. There were several stand-out, wonderful teachers, no question. But the damage done by poor administration, and horrific laws, can't be overcome by a few good teachers. Sadly.
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  -Let's see how DU feels about merit pay for teachers. Celeborn Skywalker  Mar-11-09 04:50 PM   #0 
  - Merit pay is political pay.  no_hypocrisy   Mar-11-09 04:52 PM   #1 
  - I saw on CSPIN that some venues actually do use that.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 04:55 PM   #4 
  - I am for firing bad teachers outright  XemaSab   Mar-11-09 04:53 PM   #2 
  - Right -- so then we have a fucked up, underfunded school system  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 04:56 PM   #6 
  - We have a fucked up, underfunded school system  XemaSab   Mar-11-09 05:00 PM   #11 
     - You can't drag down what is already scraping the floor.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:05 PM   #12 
        - From 5-8  XemaSab   Mar-11-09 05:10 PM   #13 
           - Oh, I hear that. There are @ssholes in every profession.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:14 PM   #19 
           - Child hating teachers, eh?  HiFructosePronSyrup   Mar-11-09 06:00 PM   #60 
              - yeah -- they DO exist.  Donnachaidh   Mar-12-09 07:52 AM   #114 
              - My mother used to come home from teaching  DKRC   Mar-12-09 01:01 PM   #119 
  - I'm with you. If they're not doing their job, fire them. If they are, pay them. (modified)  readmoreoften   Mar-11-09 04:56 PM   #7 
  - I think it is possible to assess teachers but that's nowhere near  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 04:55 PM   #3 
  - I think too many are assuming what those merits might be  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 05:26 PM   #32 
     - It's a little weird to start off with teachers and not with the political  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:28 PM   #36 
        - Yep, I'll agree to that...  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 05:32 PM   #40 
           - He's sitting a whole buffet of problems, that's for sure. n/t  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:34 PM   #41 
  - I think merit pay is just fine.  phantom power   Mar-11-09 04:56 PM   #5 
  - Me too. Many of the arguments against are specious.  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:13 PM   #16 
     - Many teachers face classrooms where 1 out of 6 kids is homeless or for other reasons  Maru Kitteh   Mar-11-09 11:02 PM   #100 
  - No two students or two classrooms are exactly alike.  PassingFair   Mar-11-09 04:57 PM   #8 
  - So what?  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:14 PM   #18 
     - Teachers are evaluated all the time. I don't know where people  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:16 PM   #20 
     - Maybe it's all the bad apples we encounter?  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 05:24 PM   #29 
     - This is a snipe hunt. People who don't do their jobs  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:30 PM   #39 
        - Oh, I agree! It's systemic...  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 05:35 PM   #44 
        - In some cases, they collect them. That's right!  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:39 PM   #47 
        - Exactly!  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:47 PM   #52 
        - "a snipe hunt"! Yup! That's a VERY apt characterization.  TahitiNut   Mar-11-09 05:56 PM   #57 
           - 30 years of Republican predations. In a way, I don't blame people.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:58 PM   #59 
              - Ahem  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 09:08 PM   #97 
                 - Have you read this board today?  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 02:23 AM   #110 
                    - Yes, and you keep avoiding the fact that some teachers are bad.  anigbrowl   Mar-12-09 12:46 PM   #118 
                       - I've not avoid any such. It's just STUPID to start mid food chain  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 09:18 PM   #120 
     - From the toxic teachers we experience  sense   Mar-12-09 02:11 AM   #109 
     - This isn't a business though.  Celeborn Skywalker   Mar-11-09 05:16 PM   #21 
     - Productivity isn't a corporate model  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:23 PM   #26 
        - I just think the art of teaching  Celeborn Skywalker   Mar-11-09 05:24 PM   #28 
        - Why not?  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:26 PM   #31 
           - If someone can come up  Celeborn Skywalker   Mar-11-09 05:27 PM   #34 
        - Yes it is a corporate model. How would you measure the number  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:26 PM   #33 
           - One small improvment...  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:42 PM   #48 
              - I'm only saying that corporate models are not flexible or sensitive enough  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:50 PM   #54 
     - Children are not products. Schools are NOT businesses.  PassingFair   Mar-11-09 05:21 PM   #25 
        - And the system we have now is never abused? Come off it.  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 05:25 PM   #30 
           - Of COURSE there is some "assessment" now!  PassingFair   Mar-11-09 05:53 PM   #55 
              - Er yes, that's what I said.  anigbrowl   Mar-11-09 08:59 PM   #96 
  - Been there done that it is never decided fairly.  rwheeler31   Mar-11-09 04:58 PM   #9 
  - Scraped it?  XemaSab   Mar-11-09 05:11 PM   #14 
     - You're all about spotting the typographical errors today.  ProdigalJunkMail   Mar-11-09 05:19 PM   #22 
        - I prefer to think of it as performance art  noamnety   Mar-11-09 05:58 PM   #58 
           - Au contraire  XemaSab   Mar-12-09 12:57 AM   #101 
              - Heh.  noamnety   Mar-12-09 01:29 AM   #102 
                 - Actually, you're totally right  XemaSab   Mar-12-09 01:40 AM   #103 
                    - I thought the same before I became a teacher  noamnety   Mar-12-09 11:07 AM   #115 
  - Against  Ohio Joe   Mar-11-09 04:59 PM   #10 
  - Against.  ColbertWatcher   Mar-11-09 05:12 PM   #15 
  - I am for merit pay but not based on test scores.  fed_up_mother   Mar-11-09 05:14 PM   #17 
  - The teaching profession involves too many ambient variables...  Deja Q   Mar-11-09 05:19 PM   #23 
  - I'm still undecided. n/t  Ian David   Mar-11-09 05:20 PM   #24 
  - My pay and my bonuses are purely merit based...  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 05:24 PM   #27 
  - The thing is -- and this is so funny -- that building a community  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 05:56 PM   #56 
     - Reward schools as a whole... excellent!  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 06:54 PM   #73 
        - I haven't but thanks, I'd like to.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:57 PM   #75 
        - Google his name...  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 07:04 PM   #77 
        - You also made me get something else that may be key here.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 07:03 PM   #76 
           - OMG! This post gave me chills!  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 07:11 PM   #78 
              - And busing (sic) didn't work. Our school system was never integrated,  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 07:18 PM   #80 
                 - It was a disaster!  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 07:26 PM   #81 
                    - "Bussing" means "kissing" or, it meant kissing in standard English  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 07:35 PM   #84 
                       - LOL!  JuniperLea   Mar-11-09 07:58 PM   #91 
  - If a teacher sucks, they should be outta there  Uzybone   Mar-11-09 05:27 PM   #35 
  - I am against it. Just pay them a decent salary to attract better qualified teachers  Incitatus   Mar-11-09 05:29 PM   #37 
  - It's sure easy to see those whom the public education system has failed.  TahitiNut   Mar-11-09 05:30 PM   #38 
  - A fallacy is a fashion error committed after Labor Day?  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:17 PM   #64 
  - I would be for merit pay for teachers if someone can come up with good measures of merit.  Donald Ian Rankin   Mar-11-09 05:34 PM   #42 
  - In principle I am for merit pay.  mwooldri   Mar-11-09 05:35 PM   #43 
  - It's a good question.  Celeborn Skywalker   Mar-11-09 05:36 PM   #45 
  - 'I am against merit pay' unless teachers receive merits for passing through, say, oh, 2-3 ...  bridgit   Mar-11-09 05:37 PM   #46 
  - Teachers should get Wall Street style merit pay  Bluenorthwest   Mar-11-09 05:42 PM   #49 
  - other  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 05:43 PM   #50 
  - Well, yes and no. Teachers are up to their eyebrows in the real world.  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:02 PM   #61 
     - I stand by my statement  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 06:27 PM   #67 
        - But the atmosphere of trust, of cooperation and safety is unique  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:33 PM   #68 
           - no, many professions require trust and cooperation  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 06:35 PM   #69 
              - Baloney. Doctors, lawyers, researchers, other professionals  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:39 PM   #70 
                 - You don't know what you are talking about  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 07:28 PM   #83 
                    - How many 10 year olds have you sat with in conference?  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 07:39 PM   #85 
                       - Only a few 10 year olds  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 07:41 PM   #86 
                          - Lots. 10 years in commercial real estate, 10 in city government  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 07:43 PM   #87 
                             - so in all your vast experience you were always the "peer"  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 07:49 PM   #89 
                                - In all my vast experience, I have always been more of a peer  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 08:12 PM   #92 
                                   - Peer in business is not a matter of age  Fresh_Start   Mar-11-09 08:17 PM   #93 
                                      - Right. And the power diferential is nothing like it would be  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 08:32 PM   #95 
  - I'm for keeping good teachers and firing bad teachers just like any profession  stray cat   Mar-11-09 05:46 PM   #51 
  - I'm inclined to oppose it.  burning rain   Mar-11-09 05:49 PM   #53 
  - If there was some quantitative way to weigh  etherealtruth   Mar-11-09 06:08 PM   #62 
  - i am for merit pay, but I haven't seen a merit pay plan that  Still Sensible   Mar-11-09 06:14 PM   #63 
  - There's something really gross about offering "merit pay"  EFerrari   Mar-11-09 06:18 PM   #65 
  - If students were as standardized as the tests...  LanternWaste   Mar-11-09 06:26 PM   #66 
  - I wouldn't oppose merit pay raises if there was a system for equitably determining merit,  petronius   Mar-11-09 06:50 PM   #71 
  - I'm against it  Bill McBlueState   Mar-11-09 06:54 PM   #72 
  - Against. Merit pay is just another tool for the admins to screw over the teachers.  Edweird   Mar-11-09 06:55 PM   #74 
  - It would completely work if site based management was eliminated.  Midlodemocrat   Mar-11-09 07:14 PM   #79 
  - And if kids really hate a teacher than gives them too much work, they can screw up the test  readmoreoften   Mar-11-09 07:28 PM   #82 
  - Exactly. Stupid/disruptive kids will revel in knowing their stupidity will hurt the teacher  file83   Mar-12-09 02:27 AM   #112 
  - Against  proud2BlibKansan   Mar-11-09 07:45 PM   #88 
  - This would be a better poll if only teachers would be asked  TBF   Mar-11-09 07:51 PM   #90 
  - How about merit pay for administrators?  baldguy   Mar-11-09 08:22 PM   #94 
  - How about merit pay for members of Congress?  mykpart   Mar-11-09 09:13 PM   #98 
  - Congress kind of get to set their own pay anyway. Plus they do get reviewed...  mwooldri   Mar-12-09 01:55 AM   #105 
     - Mike Moore once pointed out that their return rate is higher than  EFerrari   Mar-12-09 01:57 AM   #106 
  - if its true some teachers are better than others & quality of teaching impacts student learning,  aikoaiko   Mar-11-09 09:38 PM   #99 
  - It was a lousy idea when the Republicans pushed it, and it's still shit.  QC   Mar-12-09 01:42 AM   #104 
  - Against it  last_texas_dem   Mar-12-09 02:06 AM   #107 
  - I had too many mean, spiteful, innefective teaches who made me hate school  Radical Activist   Mar-12-09 02:10 AM   #108 
  - Okay then, bump up starting pay, then problem solved.  file83   Mar-12-09 02:25 AM   #111 
     - Bumping up starting pay is a must.  Radical Activist   Mar-12-09 02:27 AM   #113 
  - Against of course -- What a stupid idea n|t  Eryemil   Mar-12-09 11:30 AM   #116 
  - Other. I would be for such things as...  Lisa0825   Mar-12-09 11:34 AM   #117 

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