paulsby
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Wed Mar-11-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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the bad teachers as the fact that there is no INCENTIVE for being a good teacher vs. a mediocre one. as is the case in my job, fwiw. but at least in my job, there is some incentive if you are applying for specialized unit, to point to your record of achievement. with teachers, when pay is based solely on time served and (in many cases mediocre) degrees, there is no incentive to perform.
and then there is the fact that public schools are amazingly administration heavy, with a much greater %age of school funds paid towards administrators and administrating than teaching vs. most private schools.
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| -"Teacher Merit Pay": A smoke screen that obscures the objective of having a public education SYSTEM. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 01:10 PM |
#0 |
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I agree w/ this |
enigmatic |
Mar-11-09 01:14 PM |
#1 |
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Me, too. |
EFerrari |
Mar-11-09 02:40 PM |
#59 |
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It's predicated on a myth that there are a wealth of bad teachers out there... |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Mar-11-09 01:14 PM |
#2 |
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In my opinion, there's a significant subset of bad teachers out there |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 01:32 PM |
#11 |
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In my opinion there's a significant subset... |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Mar-11-09 01:36 PM |
#14 |
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No doubt that is also very true. :) |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 01:44 PM |
#23 |
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These conditions aren't mutually exclusive. nt |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 01:46 PM |
#24 |
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Yes, but I'm not calling for merit fines for parents. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Mar-11-09 02:35 PM |
#56 |
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Actually, we tend to subsidize good parents |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 02:51 PM |
#62 |
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And there are "bad" employees in EVERY sector of the economy. |
tonysam |
Mar-11-09 02:12 PM |
#43 |
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not so much |
paulsby |
Mar-11-09 02:14 PM |
#45 |
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No incentive? |
HelenWheels |
Mar-11-09 02:59 PM |
#63 |
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fine |
paulsby |
Mar-11-09 03:03 PM |
#65 |
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merit pay will cause teachers to cheat about what they can achieve |
roguevalley |
Mar-11-09 02:17 PM |
#48 |
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I'd be happier with two solutions |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:15 PM |
#3 |
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How many different teachers did you have in grades 1-12?? |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 01:24 PM |
#6 |
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Long enough to know the difference between a good one and a bad one. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:30 PM |
#10 |
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Try reading my OM again. You're engaging in a "chase the red herring" exercise. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 01:34 PM |
#12 |
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Two questions: Are some teachers better than others? Does better teaching performance matter? |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:37 PM |
#15 |
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It's how good teachers should be defined is the question |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:40 PM |
#19 |
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I disagree, there is a place for standardized test scores in assessing teacher performance |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:48 PM |
#25 |
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OK. But it shouldn't be the only metric. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:49 PM |
#28 |
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I completely agree, standardized test scores should NOT be the only metric |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:51 PM |
#30 |
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Are you honestly telling me that you've never seen a bad teacher? |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:41 PM |
#20 |
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It's irrelevant. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 02:15 PM |
#46 |
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No. You just want to have the discussion on your terms. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 02:20 PM |
#50 |
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Never trust a teacher or any other employee who can't talk about the bad apples. |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 02:34 PM |
#55 |
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But, imho, Tahiti makes a good point: to focus only on "bad apple" teachers |
EFerrari |
Mar-11-09 03:03 PM |
#66 |
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Here's something else I wrote: |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 03:15 PM |
#68 |
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It's part of a bigger solution, but Tahiti wouldn't even admit to that being part of it. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 03:17 PM |
#69 |
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Well, I admit that in the grand scheme of things, it isn't even visible |
EFerrari |
Mar-11-09 03:26 PM |
#74 |
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Yes. It is a small part of a bigger picture |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 03:40 PM |
# |
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Not if you or your offspring is stuck in a bad teacher's class |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 04:31 PM |
#80 |
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I immediately never trust any teacher who doesn't know of a bad teacher |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 01:38 PM |
#16 |
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They want to turn schools into corporations. This is just one way. |
madfloridian |
Mar-11-09 01:18 PM |
#4 |
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There should be an anti-education tax. |
dcindian |
Mar-11-09 01:22 PM |
#5 |
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merit pay is generally invalid because..... |
msongs |
Mar-11-09 01:25 PM |
#7 |
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Even your manager models is viable. |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:29 PM |
#9 |
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besides... |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 01:38 PM |
#17 |
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I wish we'd go to longer school days and longer school years. |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:25 PM |
#8 |
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True that. I'd go for shorter holidays, more homework. |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 01:39 PM |
#18 |
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I say we wire the little bastards up so they can still study while they're sleeping |
FiveGoodMen |
Mar-11-09 02:24 PM |
#52 |
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I would have hated that when I was in school. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:42 PM |
#21 |
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I think it would be a tough adjustment but this school schedule that was |
aikoaiko |
Mar-11-09 01:50 PM |
#29 |
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People will get used to it. |
Cant trust em |
Mar-11-09 01:53 PM |
#33 |
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I'd entertain such changes BUT NOT on a "one size fits all (grades)" assumption. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 02:40 PM |
#60 |
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I'm in favor of both public education and merit pay |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 01:34 PM |
#13 |
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Very good points |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 01:48 PM |
#26 |
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It's a big problem I had with Obama from the campaign and now. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Mar-11-09 01:42 PM |
#22 |
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It's not even a "solution" ... it's a red herring. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 02:01 PM |
#38 |
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except it's not a "solution" |
paulsby |
Mar-11-09 02:16 PM |
#47 |
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"Merit pay" is as lazy solution to a complex problem. QFT. n/t |
ColbertWatcher |
Mar-11-09 02:38 PM |
#57 |
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Education shouldn't be equivalent to a production line. k&r |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Mar-11-09 01:49 PM |
#27 |
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My wife's story is illustrative of what the public school system can be. |
scubadude |
Mar-11-09 01:51 PM |
#31 |
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Very good post. |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 01:55 PM |
#34 |
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Merit pay has some unintended consequences. |
NOW tense |
Mar-11-09 01:51 PM |
#32 |
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A smoke screen to obscure that learning is an individual measure |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 01:56 PM |
#35 |
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So...you blame the failure of schools on the students? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Mar-11-09 02:02 PM |
#39 |
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No I wouldn't say lazier... though they may not have the work ethic role models |
Lost in CT |
Mar-11-09 02:10 PM |
#41 |
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What do you mean by "work ethic role models"? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Mar-11-09 02:12 PM |
#44 |
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Yes... wealthier students tend to have at least one parent fully employed |
Lost in CT |
Mar-11-09 02:21 PM |
#51 |
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At the college level, ethnic differences in performance aren't so much laziness |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 03:14 PM |
#67 |
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"Students trained to believe that they cannot learn material through self-study are LOST" |
Lost in CT |
Mar-11-09 03:19 PM |
#71 |
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Unfortunately, that philosophy guides Milwaukee school improvement. |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 03:26 PM |
#75 |
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Yes, and no, This is the problem, and I think you've somewhat overread that. |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 03:01 PM |
#64 |
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I share that ire. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 02:09 PM |
#40 |
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A problem I have encountered with home-schooled kids attempting college |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 03:22 PM |
#73 |
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Yup. Indeed, if an education system is to prepare us for 'real' life ... |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 03:33 PM |
#77 |
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Unfortunately, within some subpopulations of our country the idea that learing is continuous |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 03:40 PM |
#78 |
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lol |
paulsby |
Mar-11-09 02:19 PM |
#49 |
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If Americans are given an excuse from personal accountability, most will choose that |
HereSince1628 |
Mar-11-09 02:27 PM |
#53 |
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i agree about the excuse making |
paulsby |
Mar-11-09 02:32 PM |
#54 |
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I agree, TH. |
Waiting For Everyman |
Mar-11-09 01:59 PM |
#36 |
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Yeah! KICK AND REC! Thank you for posting this! n/t |
ColbertWatcher |
Mar-11-09 02:01 PM |
#37 |
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The Crux of the Problem is People Who Push "Merit Pay" Schemes |
tonysam |
Mar-11-09 02:10 PM |
#42 |
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Education, service and merit can all be measured. |
fed_up_mother |
Mar-11-09 02:39 PM |
#58 |
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Exactly. There is a belief that government can be run as a business. |
ColbertWatcher |
Mar-11-09 02:50 PM |
#61 |
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I don't think the step system is fair at all |
anigbrowl |
Mar-11-09 04:29 PM |
#79 |
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There are 3 main components to the education problem... |
BlooInBloo |
Mar-11-09 03:18 PM |
#70 |
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Enthusiastic K&R nt |
Mithreal |
Mar-11-09 03:22 PM |
#72 |
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I imagine that merit pay for teacher's would be... |
LanternWaste |
Mar-11-09 03:27 PM |
#76 |
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Have you noticed ... |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 06:51 PM |
#81 |
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there *are* bad teachers out there. |
ulysses |
Mar-11-09 08:29 PM |
#82 |
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The conceptual framing of such discussions has been hijacked, imho. |
TahitiNut |
Mar-11-09 09:25 PM |
#84 |
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"Saving" a system by targeting the employees as either Gods or Bad actors is silly. |
MichiganVote |
Mar-11-09 08:51 PM |
#83 |
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I've seen it already. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Mar-12-09 10:30 AM |
#85 |
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