anigbrowl
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Mon Mar-02-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message |
| 45. This is wrong in many ways (detail inside) |
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Of course the writer of the original article makes many valid points. This is a dreadful situation. But bear in mind that just as a bull market sees a lot of people selling bullshit, so does a bear market see people selling bear grease.
Rude awakening #1: yes, current economic models have proved unreliable because they assumed Gaussian probability curves and severely underestimated volatility. That does not mean that Obama or his economic team are floating along in a bubble of ignorance, believing it's just a statistical anomaly. The administration's economic policy represents a radically different approach.
Rude Awakening #2: yes, it's worse than expected. but it makes no sense to say the administration is hiding from this fact, while quoting Paul Volvker on how bad it is. If Paul Volcker is saying that the economy sucks (as he is), then it's reasonable to assume Obama is paying attention to this as well - after all, this is why he recruited Volcker to begin with.
Rude Awakening #3: Oh noes, stimulating and repairing the economy is going to be very expensive. Well yeah, of course it is. The authors solution is to go ahead and let the payments system collapse and basically allow the economy to implode so we can construct a new one out of the ashes of the old...wait, what? This is kind of like suggesting that the crew and passengers of the Titanic should have tried colonizing the iceberg instead of trying to contain the leak and/or deploy the lifeboats.
Rude Awakening #4: 'Um, we got it wrong repeatedly and it's worse than even we expected. So now, we'll predict it's going to get worse again - the only wise thing to do is trust us with your money because we can't possibly be wrong this time.'
Personally, I think the market is going to go lower than even they predict. Last summer/fall, I guessed 6500 as a market bottom (somewhere on DU if you can be bothered to look it up). Now I'm thinking that 4800 is more like it, which is, of course, bad. However, I don't take this to mean we're going to turn into 1990s Russia or some Mad Max scenario. I do envision some kinds of worst-case scenarios, but none of them involve the collapse of modern society. I only think these worst-case scenarios will come to pass if obstructionist doomers like the writers at Money and Markets have their way and seek to accelerate rather than brake the downward economic slide.
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| -Beginning Now: The Panic Phase of the Collapse (Please read) |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:20 PM |
#0 |
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Rude Awakening - 4800 |
seemslikeadream |
Mar-02-09 12:23 PM |
#1 |
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I had been saying 5500 - 5750 but that may have been generous |
Gman |
Mar-02-09 12:31 PM |
#9 |
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It may be worse than that, SLAD. |
Subdivisions |
Mar-03-09 07:23 AM |
#57 |
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Have you ever compared |
conscious evolution |
Mar-03-09 07:50 AM |
#62 |
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No, I haven't. Since you have, please share. n/t |
Subdivisions |
Mar-03-09 07:51 AM |
#63 |
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I wish I could locate the graphic |
conscious evolution |
Mar-03-09 08:37 AM |
#65 |
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a word of caution |
luvspeas |
Mar-02-09 12:23 PM |
#2 |
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Fair enough. |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:26 PM |
#4 |
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I just find it suspicious |
luvspeas |
Mar-02-09 12:29 PM |
#5 |
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I agree with that, but what frustrates me |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:33 PM |
#11 |
  -
the great depression lasted 12-15 years...we've only just begun |
luvspeas |
Mar-02-09 12:48 PM |
#20 |
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There's also no real way to know what will work |
Warpy |
Mar-02-09 01:01 PM |
#34 |
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Anyone with a brain |
femrap |
Mar-02-09 09:57 PM |
#48 |
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I lived in a Mc Mansion once, thankfully, I only rented it for a while |
Grinchie |
Mar-03-09 02:51 AM |
#54 |
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I rented a big house for one year.... |
femrap |
Mar-03-09 05:39 PM |
#68 |
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YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Back shortly before this crisis began, people |
Subdivisions |
Mar-03-09 07:31 AM |
#59 |
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you can .. by short selling. |
TheCoxwain |
Mar-02-09 12:50 PM |
#25 |
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hmm during the depression it lost 70% |
nadinbrzezinski |
Mar-03-09 01:16 AM |
#52 |
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You can have ALL the facts right and STILL not have a freakin' clue |
Common Sense Party |
Mar-03-09 05:46 PM |
#69 |
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Wow, all that and not one mention of peak oil and oil price volatility that probably caused |
Bread and Circus |
Mar-02-09 12:23 PM |
#3 |
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Peak Oil may have been a factor |
DemReadingDU |
Mar-02-09 12:30 PM |
#7 |
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debt is not a problem as long as you can make the payments, at an individual and at |
Bread and Circus |
Mar-02-09 12:43 PM |
#15 |
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I strongly urge you to watch Chris Martenson's Crash Course. |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:47 PM |
#19 |
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I don't underestimate problems caused by debt, it's part of the perfect storm. |
Bread and Circus |
Mar-02-09 12:51 PM |
#26 |
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no, the runup to the crisis was balloon payments |
northernlights |
Mar-02-09 01:02 PM |
#35 |
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It just doesn't stand to reason that the entire world economy has come to a grinding halt because |
Bread and Circus |
Mar-02-09 02:57 PM |
#44 |
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credit-default swaps have nothing to do with peak oil. |
dysfunctional press |
Mar-03-09 02:10 AM |
#53 |
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BINGO! I can't tell you how many time I've tried to explain this on DU. I was |
Subdivisions |
Mar-03-09 07:46 AM |
#61 |
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yep |
cliffordu |
Mar-02-09 12:31 PM |
#8 |
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doubtful. |
dysfunctional press |
Mar-02-09 10:01 PM |
#49 |
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you might be right. we'll see. |
Bread and Circus |
Mar-03-09 01:09 AM |
#51 |
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MAN! I am so glad to see someone say this! You mention oil around |
Subdivisions |
Mar-03-09 07:43 AM |
#60 |
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All well and good, but . . . |
PetrusMonsFormicarum |
Mar-02-09 12:30 PM |
#6 |
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If what the administration is trying to do is in direct conflict with reality, |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:34 PM |
#12 |
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FUBAR seems an appropriate description of the economy. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Mar-02-09 12:32 PM |
#10 |
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This is a peephole into the investors-eye view of the economy. |
TygrBright |
Mar-02-09 12:35 PM |
#13 |
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They were right, but "brought to you by...?" read the fine print |
DFW |
Mar-02-09 12:35 PM |
#14 |
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Try Roubini's RGE Monitor site. |
Dr.Phool |
Mar-02-09 01:46 PM |
#41 |
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Trying to create panic |
Astrad |
Mar-02-09 12:45 PM |
#16 |
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I'M EFFING AWAKE!! |
Are_grits_groceries |
Mar-03-09 07:28 AM |
#58 |
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I think "Rude Awakening #3" is demonstrably false. |
The Stranger |
Mar-02-09 12:45 PM |
#17 |
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Please refer to my post #19. nt |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:49 PM |
#22 |
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Why don't you instead articulate what it is you want to say? |
The Stranger |
Mar-02-09 12:54 PM |
#30 |
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i`m getting tired of these "the sky is falling" experts..... |
madrchsod |
Mar-02-09 12:46 PM |
#18 |
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But where is it WRONG? |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:48 PM |
#21 |
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Perhaps, this would be a good time |
Turbineguy |
Mar-02-09 12:49 PM |
#23 |
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Once again, I understand attacking the messenger. |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 12:52 PM |
#27 |
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So sorry, did not mean to attack the messenger |
Turbineguy |
Mar-02-09 01:02 PM |
#36 |
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"Weak hands"? Empowering those weak hands may yet surprise some forecasters. |
Waiting For Everyman |
Mar-02-09 12:49 PM |
#24 |
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Oh, goodie! |
Le Taz Hot |
Mar-02-09 12:53 PM |
#28 |
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How is not facing reality helping anyone? |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 01:00 PM |
#32 |
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Telling people to Sell! Sell! Sell! when the market has already tanked this significantly... |
Warren DeMontague |
Mar-02-09 01:19 PM |
#40 |
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Stimulus plus government nationalization of the zombie banks |
mmonk |
Mar-02-09 12:54 PM |
#29 |
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This person opposes Obama's stimulus plan on conservative grounds: |
pnwmom |
Mar-02-09 12:59 PM |
#31 |
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Once again, where is he wrong? nt |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 01:01 PM |
#33 |
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He is completely wrong, according to Krugman, the Nobel-winning |
pnwmom |
Mar-02-09 01:13 PM |
#38 |
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How about "A dangerous diversion of precious capital from strong hands to weak hands.", for starts? |
Warren DeMontague |
Mar-02-09 01:59 PM |
#42 |
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Economists are mostly fantasy based thinkers |
undergroundpanther |
Mar-02-09 01:13 PM |
#37 |
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WUR DOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DOOOOOOOOMED!!!! DOOOOOOOOOMED!!!! |
Warren DeMontague |
Mar-02-09 01:18 PM |
#39 |
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... |
Viva_La_Revolution |
Mar-03-09 11:05 AM |
#67 |
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Awesome pic!! |
Thickasabrick |
Mar-03-09 05:52 PM |
#71 |
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LOL.....good response. |
Thickasabrick |
Mar-03-09 05:51 PM |
#70 |
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More Right-Wing "Obama's spending is part of the problem" BS. |
Odin2005 |
Mar-02-09 02:55 PM |
#43 |
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This is wrong in many ways (detail inside) |
anigbrowl |
Mar-02-09 03:34 PM |
#45 |
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Why do posters on DU continue to conflate Dow with the economy? |
nbsmom |
Mar-03-09 06:46 PM |
#75 |
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I trust Obama, the time to buy is right now! |
B Calm |
Mar-02-09 03:48 PM |
#46 |
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Well then, you do that. |
Pale Blue Dot |
Mar-02-09 03:57 PM |
#47 |
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Thanks! |
B Calm |
Mar-03-09 06:29 AM |
#55 |
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I'm looking into bonds and taking advantage of my student status... |
Deja Q |
Mar-03-09 06:00 PM |
#74 |
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FWIW... |
slipslidingaway |
Mar-02-09 11:52 PM |
#50 |
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Kick and nom. Many on this site are still not in tune with the Reality and size of the whole |
sarcasmo |
Mar-03-09 07:19 AM |
#56 |
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I believe in the United States of America and the the working class |
B Calm |
Mar-03-09 07:57 AM |
#64 |
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I'm with you! |
Deja Q |
Mar-03-09 05:59 PM |
#73 |
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Well, some of us want to be optimists instead of sniveling wanky pessimistic doom'n'gloomers. |
Deja Q |
Mar-03-09 05:58 PM |
#72 |
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Savings were up last month, as was spending. We're re-capitalizing the banks, fast. |
jazzjunkysue |
Mar-03-09 08:40 AM |
#66 |
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what gets me is the interest rates- |
KakistocracyHater |
Mar-03-09 06:59 PM |
#76 |