Occam Bandage
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Sat Feb-21-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #89 |
| 130. The North held between 75% and 90% of the nation's wealth, depending on the metric. |
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The South was far more prosperous than it would have been without slavery, yes, but it was even then poorer than the North. It is true that American industry was nothing like it would be yet, but it was certainly not anything to trifle with. And during the war, the Northern dollar fell to 1/3 of its value against gold, while the Southern dollar fell to 1/12th and lower, so I'm not sure where "they had money and plenty of it" comes from. The South didn't manage to rack up many debts, true, but that's because they had neither trade nor industry, so there wasn't much opportunity to trade in debt. All the wealth they had was in the form of cotton, and frankly "King Cotton" didn't turn out to be much of a monarch. Neither Britain nor France nor Russia could be bribed with that stockpile for fear of losing their more valuable trade with the Union, and for fear of angering their public by backing a nation founded on slavery.
The Emancipation Proclamation was indeed a tactical decision, though not for the reasons you cited. The size of Southern garrisons didn't really change as a result of the Proclamation, and I can't think of a Southern general who ever halted an advance for fear of a slave rebellion. I mean, if Lee had retreated after Anteitam because of that, or Bragg after Murfreesboro, then I think there'd be a point, but both retreated because of tactical considerations, not because of strategic fear of slave revolts. However, the Emancipation Proclamation did galvanize a great deal of support for Lincoln among his own party, did suck all the wind out of the British confederate sympathizers, who nearly achieved recognition for the South beforehand, and did provide political cover for generals to (as they had been long requesting the authority to do) emancipate slaves in held areas, thus depriving the South of their productivity and asset value.
(Oh, and DE, MO, WV, and KY were also Union slave states)
|
| -is this mascot offensive? |
Froward69 |
Feb-20-09 02:09 PM |
#0 |
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The confederacy was and is offensive to many. |
mmonk |
Feb-20-09 02:11 PM |
#1 |
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Granted |
Froward69 |
Feb-20-09 02:13 PM |
#4 |
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If someone had a mascot that was a common soldier |
mmonk |
Feb-20-09 02:15 PM |
#7 |
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I had a similar thought upon reading that post. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 02:56 PM |
#30 |
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someone is bound to be offended by everything at some point |
Belial |
Feb-20-09 02:12 PM |
#2 |
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But much fewer are the instances... |
LanternWaste |
Feb-20-09 02:15 PM |
#6 |
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Dude... |
kirby |
Feb-20-09 02:13 PM |
#3 |
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KSM has more of a party on top with his 'do, though! nt |
MADem |
Feb-20-09 02:16 PM |
#9 |
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i would move to the district that used carl for a mascot.. |
frylock |
Feb-20-09 04:04 PM |
#72 |
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Give that dude a bottle of Nair. |
Deja Q |
Feb-20-09 05:21 PM |
#76 |
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it looks like Abe Lincoln in a confederate uniform. |
MADem |
Feb-20-09 02:14 PM |
#5 |
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the new one |
Froward69 |
Feb-20-09 02:19 PM |
#11 |
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Hell, if you want to keep the REBEL name, make your mascot an image of James Dean. |
MADem |
Feb-20-09 02:30 PM |
#15 |
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Denver has a rich heritage of fighting for the Confederacy. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Feb-20-09 02:15 PM |
#8 |
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True |
Froward69 |
Feb-20-09 02:24 PM |
#14 |
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My high school, in Aurora, |
enlightenment |
Feb-20-09 02:31 PM |
#16 |
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Our mascot was the Jolly Green Giant.. |
Hawkeye-X |
Feb-20-09 10:57 PM |
#98 |
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I don't think it's offensive |
NeedleCast |
Feb-20-09 02:16 PM |
#10 |
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Yeah. get rid of it. |
Liberal_in_LA |
Feb-20-09 02:19 PM |
#12 |
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THIS one sure is: |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-20-09 02:23 PM |
#13 |
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Maybe if it were thought up by decendents of British Protestants |
mmonk |
Feb-20-09 02:35 PM |
#17 |
  -
bah, distasteful is distasteful.... |
iamthebandfanman |
Feb-21-09 12:40 AM |
#110 |
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How many Irish attend and run Notre Dame? Make it Fightin' Catholics instead. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-21-09 04:00 AM |
#118 |
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that's offensive to bald men, short people, Irish, people who wear green. |
Liberal_in_LA |
Feb-20-09 09:35 PM |
#90 |
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You actually refer to your siblings as "mulatto"?!?!?!?!?! Oh. My. No wonder you're not offended. |
rvablue |
Feb-20-09 02:35 PM |
#18 |
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My thoughts exactly. n/t |
geardaddy |
Feb-20-09 02:48 PM |
#24 |
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I can see changing it. "mulatto siblings"? Wtf? |
uppityperson |
Feb-20-09 02:39 PM |
#19 |
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Obviously people found it offensive. |
noamnety |
Feb-20-09 02:43 PM |
#20 |
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"Mulatto?" |
HarukaTheTrophyWife |
Feb-20-09 02:44 PM |
#21 |
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lol |
JVS |
Feb-20-09 06:24 PM |
#83 |
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Ayuh |
GreenPartyVoter |
Feb-21-09 10:27 AM |
#128 |
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I view it as divisive, but not offensive, although I understand why some people |
Uncle Joe |
Feb-20-09 02:45 PM |
#22 |
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It's time to change anyway. Since you ask, yes, an Armed Insurgent is |
crikkett |
Feb-20-09 02:46 PM |
#23 |
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I have more important things to be offended by, frankly. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 02:50 PM |
#25 |
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they should have changed it years ago |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 02:51 PM |
#26 |
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I have to confess that the old mascot does not bother me |
LibertyLover |
Feb-20-09 02:52 PM |
#27 |
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Your husband's uniform is correct |
Zomby Woof |
Feb-21-09 12:47 AM |
#113 |
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Actually in 1864, the Confederate Army adopted |
Thothmes |
Feb-21-09 05:23 AM |
#119 |
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The Confederacy was a nation founded on the right to own people as slaves, |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 02:53 PM |
#28 |
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Hmmm... considering most people who fought in that war |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 02:58 PM |
#31 |
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Just because the sheeple didn't know they were defending slavery |
EFerrari |
Feb-20-09 03:01 PM |
#33 |
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But, in their minds, they weren't defending slavery. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:13 PM |
#37 |
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That is an absolute crock. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 03:19 PM |
#40 |
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Absolutely right. By the way, my teachers NEVER spelled out what OTHER |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:24 PM |
#44 |
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And history is taught from the point of view of the war winner. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:52 PM |
#70 |
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Crock yourself. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:28 PM |
#45 |
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"southern bash"? |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 03:36 PM |
#57 |
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No it is not. And I was born and raised in the south. It was about slavery. nt |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:38 PM |
#60 |
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Well, not ALL about slavery. |
Fire1 |
Feb-20-09 04:17 PM |
#73 |
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It's not Southern-bashing. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 03:43 PM |
#66 |
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To quote George Carlin |
Zomby Woof |
Feb-21-09 01:08 AM |
#115 |
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The first slaves sold in the United State |
Thothmes |
Feb-21-09 05:33 AM |
#120 |
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I think there is a difference between |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-21-09 09:41 AM |
#124 |
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We southerners are scum ya know |
marksmithfield |
Feb-20-09 05:13 PM |
#74 |
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oh brother |
fascisthunter |
Feb-20-09 06:04 PM |
#80 |
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Oh grow the hell up, will you? |
Hugabear |
Feb-20-09 11:00 PM |
#101 |
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Oh please ... The "it was actually about states' rights, not slavery" argument |
Arugula Latte |
Feb-20-09 08:24 PM |
#88 |
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Southerners never talk about the Civil War?! Are you shitting me, Pyle? |
RandomKoolzip |
Feb-21-09 10:48 AM |
#129 |
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Thank you very much. These Confederate apologists can't seem to understand that. |
Hugabear |
Feb-20-09 10:57 PM |
#99 |
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sure they were |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 03:20 PM |
#41 |
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I'll agree with you that many had no idea it was only about slavery. |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:28 PM |
#46 |
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Baloney. First, unless you're Miss Clio, you don't know what was in their minds. |
EFerrari |
Feb-20-09 03:30 PM |
#48 |
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Or unless I can read their diaries. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:31 PM |
# |
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You're defending against an attack I didn't make. What's up with that? |
EFerrari |
Feb-20-09 03:33 PM |
#53 |
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Kind of hard to write |
marksmithfield |
Feb-20-09 05:16 PM |
#75 |
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Well, actually, the Declarations of Secession straight up give "slavery" as their reason. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Feb-20-09 03:38 PM |
#59 |
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Thank you. I didn't know any of that. |
EFerrari |
Feb-20-09 03:41 PM |
#64 |
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And there's the state in which I was born - Mississippi. Short and |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:44 PM |
#67 |
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But what were they going to get out of it? |
treestar |
Feb-20-09 03:38 PM |
#58 |
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In the south, people feared violence from freed slaves. In several southern states, the populations |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Feb-20-09 03:42 PM |
#65 |
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Southerners have been taught that it was over states' rights. But that is a lie. |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:06 PM |
#34 |
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I grew up in the South, too. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:16 PM |
#39 |
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Just because they believed the lie doesn't mean it wasn't about slavery. |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:21 PM |
#42 |
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I just called it a horrid thing, but I guess you missed that. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:29 PM |
#47 |
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Um, the people who believed the lie weren't the liars. So, unless your ancestors |
DevonRex |
Feb-20-09 03:33 PM |
#52 |
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Might I suggest you read each of the particular state's articles of secession |
LanternWaste |
Feb-20-09 03:36 PM |
#55 |
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So you're saying it wasn't about slavery |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 03:08 PM |
#35 |
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Polling?! LMAO!!!!! |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:23 PM |
#43 |
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No, it was not about personally owning slaves. Obviously not. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 03:35 PM |
#54 |
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You get it. |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 11:12 PM |
#104 |
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However, wars are never predicated or fought... |
LanternWaste |
Feb-20-09 03:40 PM |
#61 |
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the fact that many soldiers didn't own slaves doesn't really prove anything |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 03:46 PM |
#68 |
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Slavery was about a way of life, many argued then. |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 10:35 PM |
#93 |
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Oh, and you sound like 1950's white segregationists |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 11:00 PM |
#100 |
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Those "dirt farmers" are not the ones who voted to secede. |
Hugabear |
Feb-20-09 11:04 PM |
#102 |
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funny you should use Robert E. Lee as an example, since he owned slaves and all |
fishwax |
Feb-21-09 12:28 AM |
#107 |
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I believe your both wrong..The civil war was not about slavery |
GA_ArmyVet |
Feb-20-09 06:16 PM |
#81 |
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So the civil war came because the South was much more prosperous than the North, |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 08:16 PM |
#86 |
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Cotton was king at the time and was the source of |
GA_ArmyVet |
Feb-20-09 08:43 PM |
#89 |
  -
The North held between 75% and 90% of the nation's wealth, depending on the metric. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-21-09 02:22 PM |
#130 |
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That was taught at my post-integration, all-white private school in MS. |
DevonRex |
Feb-21-09 08:54 AM |
#123 |
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Owning slaves was about |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 10:47 PM |
#94 |
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Slavery as an institution went far beyond the slaveowners themselves. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 03:14 PM |
#38 |
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the analogy to the WOT is not a good one |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 03:31 PM |
#49 |
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Uh ... no. |
Kalyke |
Feb-20-09 03:33 PM |
#51 |
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I never said the concept of states rights was invented after the war |
fishwax |
Feb-20-09 03:41 PM |
#62 |
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Give me a break. Slavery was the ONLY issue. |
Hugabear |
Feb-20-09 10:54 PM |
#95 |
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The Morrill Tariff was of chief importance |
Zomby Woof |
Feb-21-09 12:55 AM |
#114 |
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When it comes to mascots... I say... |
Fearless |
Feb-20-09 02:54 PM |
#29 |
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I don't think either is a gargoyle |
elfin |
Feb-20-09 03:00 PM |
#32 |
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A traitor to America |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 03:09 PM |
#36 |
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Wrong |
marksmithfield |
Feb-20-09 06:01 PM |
#78 |
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Yeah, yeah, and the Nazis were fighting for their pure Aryan heritage. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Feb-20-09 06:30 PM |
#85 |
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"He was defending his traditions and values." |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-20-09 08:20 PM |
#87 |
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At that point in time it was an accepted |
marksmithfield |
Feb-20-09 10:23 PM |
#91 |
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And in 1943 Germany, rounding up Jews and sending them to camps was an accepted norm. |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-21-09 09:48 AM |
#125 |
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that's fucking insane. |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 10:56 PM |
#97 |
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Did somebody here on DU actually compare AFRICAN AMERICANS to CATTLE? |
Hugabear |
Feb-20-09 11:06 PM |
#103 |
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Oh come on |
marksmithfield |
Feb-21-09 07:04 AM |
#122 |
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The federal constitution legitmized slavery |
Zomby Woof |
Feb-21-09 12:39 AM |
#109 |
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Could you point out the clause |
Radical Activist |
Feb-21-09 01:34 AM |
#116 |
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And the South was terrified that the incoming, apparently Radical Republican President |
Occam Bandage |
Feb-21-09 09:49 AM |
#126 |
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A confederate general (Wade Hampton), not an enlisted man, was my school mascot... |
mitchum |
Feb-20-09 03:31 PM |
#50 |
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Yes, no one can expect AA people not to be offended by the |
treestar |
Feb-20-09 03:36 PM |
#56 |
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American education is woefully deficient in Math & Science. Your new mascot should be a rhombus. |
Warren DeMontague |
Feb-20-09 03:41 PM |
#63 |
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There's a school near me whose mascot is a "senator" |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Feb-20-09 03:46 PM |
#69 |
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See, but if they made Werner Heisenberg your hockey team mascot, the other team's goalie would have |
Warren DeMontague |
Feb-20-09 03:56 PM |
#71 |
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Technically, that is true of a puck. |
daleo |
Feb-20-09 06:02 PM |
#79 |
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Is this? |
baldguy |
Feb-20-09 05:32 PM |
#77 |
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Fightin' Whities pic..... |
voc |
Feb-21-09 12:41 AM |
#111 |
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Keep the logo, rename it treasonous fuckwads |
JVS |
Feb-20-09 06:21 PM |
#82 |
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yes! |
Radical Activist |
Feb-20-09 11:14 PM |
#105 |
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have a drink of Chink: |
Gabi Hayes |
Feb-20-09 06:27 PM |
#84 |
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"Liberal and their pathetic ilk can go to Hell!! CHINKS FOREVER'' |
Bluebear |
Feb-21-09 03:24 PM |
#131 |
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No more offensive than this: |
cherokeeprogressive |
Feb-20-09 10:31 PM |
#92 |
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My high school mascot was a generic "Indian" in a large head dress in profile. |
EFerrari |
Feb-21-09 12:42 AM |
#112 |
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Heh. I remember South High School |
Hawkeye-X |
Feb-20-09 10:55 PM |
#96 |
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Yes |
blogslut |
Feb-21-09 12:15 AM |
#106 |
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No, because it's an American veteran |
Zomby Woof |
Feb-21-09 12:36 AM |
#108 |
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Well Stated. |
Thothmes |
Feb-21-09 05:43 AM |
#121 |
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You didn't just say "mulatto" did you? What graduating class were you, 1952? |
Bluebear |
Feb-21-09 01:36 AM |
#117 |
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Offensive or not, it's a terrible mascot. |
surrealAmerican |
Feb-21-09 10:15 AM |
#127 |