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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Cotton was king at the time and was the source of
much of the Nations GDP. Our industrial was just beginning at the time.
The northern industrialist were not poor, but were they did not have the amount or wealth that flowed through the Southern Elite.
Lincoln fought the civil war to preserve the nation. And it was a vastly unpopular war. There were antiwar riots in the NY, and Baltimore protesting the war.

Lincoln himself stated if he could end the war by freeing the slaves he would do that, if he could end by not freeing the slaves he would do that. He simply was stating that the he wished to preserve the Union at any cost. The idea that he freed the slaves at of some moral or just cause is just simply false.

His decision to free the slaves with the emancipation proclamation was tactical decision. One of the souths biggest fears was slave revolt. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the number of slaves was huge, although exact numbers are unknown, it is believe by many that black slaves outnumbered whites in many places. Freeing the slaves in states that were in rebellion opened the door to a possible revolt. Lincoln proclamation was a brilliant tactical move as the south had to keep troops ready to suppress any uprising. The revolt never occurred, at least not in number to be significant. A little know fact with is that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all of the slaves only in the slave states in rebellion to the Union, which left Maryland, a slave state, but which did not secede from the Union, as one of the last area with legal slavery in the US.

I have studied the Civil War, causes and effects and that is my opinion based on the known facts of the era. The problem with all of this is we are all drawing conclusions based on our own perceptions.

The facts are plain

There was a war.
There was slavery before the war.
There was no slavery after the war.
Prior to the war the states wielded more authority than the Federal government
After the war, the Federal Government wielded supreme authority.

Beyond that you have to make a lot of educated guesses or have the ability to read minds.

Many things led to this conflict, not the least of which was a struggle for control and power. During the war the Souths biggest problem was a lack of industry for weapons production. They had money though, and plenty of it. Lincoln blockade the port cities for precisely that reason, to prevent further sale or trade of cotton for weapons and supplies.

By the end of the war the CSA was broke, unable to produce cotton, or sell it.

And to the betterment of all lost the war.

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  -is this mascot offensive? Froward69  Feb-20-09 02:09 PM   #0 
  - The confederacy was and is offensive to many.  mmonk   Feb-20-09 02:11 PM   #1 
  - Granted  Froward69   Feb-20-09 02:13 PM   #4 
     - If someone had a mascot that was a common soldier  mmonk   Feb-20-09 02:15 PM   #7 
        - I had a similar thought upon reading that post.  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 02:56 PM   #30 
  - someone is bound to be offended by everything at some point  Belial   Feb-20-09 02:12 PM   #2 
  - But much fewer are the instances...  LanternWaste   Feb-20-09 02:15 PM   #6 
  - Dude...  kirby   Feb-20-09 02:13 PM   #3 
  - KSM has more of a party on top with his 'do, though! nt  MADem   Feb-20-09 02:16 PM   #9 
  - i would move to the district that used carl for a mascot..  frylock   Feb-20-09 04:04 PM   #72 
  - Give that dude a bottle of Nair.  Deja Q   Feb-20-09 05:21 PM   #76 
  - it looks like Abe Lincoln in a confederate uniform.  MADem   Feb-20-09 02:14 PM   #5 
  - the new one  Froward69   Feb-20-09 02:19 PM   #11 
     - Hell, if you want to keep the REBEL name, make your mascot an image of James Dean.  MADem   Feb-20-09 02:30 PM   #15 
  - Denver has a rich heritage of fighting for the Confederacy.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Feb-20-09 02:15 PM   #8 
  - True  Froward69   Feb-20-09 02:24 PM   #14 
     - My high school, in Aurora,  enlightenment   Feb-20-09 02:31 PM   #16 
     - Our mascot was the Jolly Green Giant..  Hawkeye-X   Feb-20-09 10:57 PM   #98 
  - I don't think it's offensive  NeedleCast   Feb-20-09 02:16 PM   #10 
  - Yeah. get rid of it.  Liberal_in_LA   Feb-20-09 02:19 PM   #12 
  - THIS one sure is:  Captain Hilts   Feb-20-09 02:23 PM   #13 
  - Maybe if it were thought up by decendents of British Protestants  mmonk   Feb-20-09 02:35 PM   #17 
  - bah, distasteful is distasteful....  iamthebandfanman   Feb-21-09 12:40 AM   #110 
     - How many Irish attend and run Notre Dame? Make it Fightin' Catholics instead. nt  Captain Hilts   Feb-21-09 04:00 AM   #118 
  - that's offensive to bald men, short people, Irish, people who wear green.  Liberal_in_LA   Feb-20-09 09:35 PM   #90 
  - You actually refer to your siblings as "mulatto"?!?!?!?!?! Oh. My. No wonder you're not offended.  rvablue   Feb-20-09 02:35 PM   #18 
  - My thoughts exactly. n/t  geardaddy   Feb-20-09 02:48 PM   #24 
  - I can see changing it. "mulatto siblings"? Wtf?  uppityperson   Feb-20-09 02:39 PM   #19 
  - Obviously people found it offensive.  noamnety   Feb-20-09 02:43 PM   #20 
  - "Mulatto?"  HarukaTheTrophyWife   Feb-20-09 02:44 PM   #21 
  - lol  JVS   Feb-20-09 06:24 PM   #83 
  - Ayuh  GreenPartyVoter   Feb-21-09 10:27 AM   #128 
  - I view it as divisive, but not offensive, although I understand why some people  Uncle Joe   Feb-20-09 02:45 PM   #22 
  - It's time to change anyway. Since you ask, yes, an Armed Insurgent is  crikkett   Feb-20-09 02:46 PM   #23 
  - I have more important things to be offended by, frankly.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 02:50 PM   #25 
  - they should have changed it years ago  fishwax   Feb-20-09 02:51 PM   #26 
  - I have to confess that the old mascot does not bother me  LibertyLover   Feb-20-09 02:52 PM   #27 
  - Your husband's uniform is correct  Zomby Woof   Feb-21-09 12:47 AM   #113 
     - Actually in 1864, the Confederate Army adopted  Thothmes   Feb-21-09 05:23 AM   #119 
  - The Confederacy was a nation founded on the right to own people as slaves,  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 02:53 PM   #28 
  - Hmmm... considering most people who fought in that war  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 02:58 PM   #31 
     - Just because the sheeple didn't know they were defending slavery  EFerrari   Feb-20-09 03:01 PM   #33 
     - But, in their minds, they weren't defending slavery.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:13 PM   #37 
        - That is an absolute crock.  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 03:19 PM   #40 
        - Absolutely right. By the way, my teachers NEVER spelled out what OTHER  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:24 PM   #44 
        - And history is taught from the point of view of the war winner.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:52 PM   #70 
        - Crock yourself.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:28 PM   #45 
        - "southern bash"?  fishwax   Feb-20-09 03:36 PM   #57 
        - No it is not. And I was born and raised in the south. It was about slavery. nt  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:38 PM   #60 
           - Well, not ALL about slavery.  Fire1   Feb-20-09 04:17 PM   #73 
        - It's not Southern-bashing.  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 03:43 PM   #66 
        - To quote George Carlin  Zomby Woof   Feb-21-09 01:08 AM   #115 
           - The first slaves sold in the United State  Thothmes   Feb-21-09 05:33 AM   #120 
           - I think there is a difference between  Occam Bandage   Feb-21-09 09:41 AM   #124 
        - We southerners are scum ya know  marksmithfield   Feb-20-09 05:13 PM   #74 
        - oh brother  fascisthunter   Feb-20-09 06:04 PM   #80 
        - Oh grow the hell up, will you?  Hugabear   Feb-20-09 11:00 PM   #101 
        - Oh please ... The "it was actually about states' rights, not slavery" argument  Arugula Latte   Feb-20-09 08:24 PM   #88 
        - Southerners never talk about the Civil War?! Are you shitting me, Pyle?  RandomKoolzip   Feb-21-09 10:48 AM   #129 
        - Thank you very much. These Confederate apologists can't seem to understand that.  Hugabear   Feb-20-09 10:57 PM   #99 
        - sure they were  fishwax   Feb-20-09 03:20 PM   #41 
        - I'll agree with you that many had no idea it was only about slavery.  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:28 PM   #46 
        - Baloney. First, unless you're Miss Clio, you don't know what was in their minds.  EFerrari   Feb-20-09 03:30 PM   #48 
        - Or unless I can read their diaries.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:31 PM   # 
        - You're defending against an attack I didn't make. What's up with that?  EFerrari   Feb-20-09 03:33 PM   #53 
        - Kind of hard to write  marksmithfield   Feb-20-09 05:16 PM   #75 
        - Well, actually, the Declarations of Secession straight up give "slavery" as their reason.  SemiCharmedQuark   Feb-20-09 03:38 PM   #59 
           - Thank you. I didn't know any of that.  EFerrari   Feb-20-09 03:41 PM   #64 
           - And there's the state in which I was born - Mississippi. Short and  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:44 PM   #67 
        - But what were they going to get out of it?  treestar   Feb-20-09 03:38 PM   #58 
           - In the south, people feared violence from freed slaves. In several southern states, the populations  SemiCharmedQuark   Feb-20-09 03:42 PM   #65 
     - Southerners have been taught that it was over states' rights. But that is a lie.  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:06 PM   #34 
     - I grew up in the South, too.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:16 PM   #39 
        - Just because they believed the lie doesn't mean it wasn't about slavery.  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:21 PM   #42 
        - I just called it a horrid thing, but I guess you missed that.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:29 PM   #47 
           - Um, the people who believed the lie weren't the liars. So, unless your ancestors  DevonRex   Feb-20-09 03:33 PM   #52 
        - Might I suggest you read each of the particular state's articles of secession  LanternWaste   Feb-20-09 03:36 PM   #55 
     - So you're saying it wasn't about slavery  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 03:08 PM   #35 
     - Polling?! LMAO!!!!!  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:23 PM   #43 
     - No, it was not about personally owning slaves. Obviously not.  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 03:35 PM   #54 
     - You get it.  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 11:12 PM   #104 
     - However, wars are never predicated or fought...  LanternWaste   Feb-20-09 03:40 PM   #61 
     - the fact that many soldiers didn't own slaves doesn't really prove anything  fishwax   Feb-20-09 03:46 PM   #68 
     - Slavery was about a way of life, many argued then.  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 10:35 PM   #93 
     - Oh, and you sound like 1950's white segregationists  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 11:00 PM   #100 
     - Those "dirt farmers" are not the ones who voted to secede.  Hugabear   Feb-20-09 11:04 PM   #102 
     - funny you should use Robert E. Lee as an example, since he owned slaves and all  fishwax   Feb-21-09 12:28 AM   #107 
     - I believe your both wrong..The civil war was not about slavery  GA_ArmyVet   Feb-20-09 06:16 PM   #81 
        - So the civil war came because the South was much more prosperous than the North,  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 08:16 PM   #86 
        - Cotton was king at the time and was the source of  GA_ArmyVet   Feb-20-09 08:43 PM   #89 
        - The North held between 75% and 90% of the nation's wealth, depending on the metric.  Occam Bandage   Feb-21-09 02:22 PM   #130 
        - That was taught at my post-integration, all-white private school in MS.  DevonRex   Feb-21-09 08:54 AM   #123 
        - Owning slaves was about  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 10:47 PM   #94 
     - Slavery as an institution went far beyond the slaveowners themselves.  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 03:14 PM   #38 
     - the analogy to the WOT is not a good one  fishwax   Feb-20-09 03:31 PM   #49 
     - Uh ... no.  Kalyke   Feb-20-09 03:33 PM   #51 
        - I never said the concept of states rights was invented after the war  fishwax   Feb-20-09 03:41 PM   #62 
     - Give me a break. Slavery was the ONLY issue.  Hugabear   Feb-20-09 10:54 PM   #95 
     - The Morrill Tariff was of chief importance  Zomby Woof   Feb-21-09 12:55 AM   #114 
  - When it comes to mascots... I say...  Fearless   Feb-20-09 02:54 PM   #29 
  - I don't think either is a gargoyle  elfin   Feb-20-09 03:00 PM   #32 
  - A traitor to America  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 03:09 PM   #36 
  - Wrong  marksmithfield   Feb-20-09 06:01 PM   #78 
  - Yeah, yeah, and the Nazis were fighting for their pure Aryan heritage.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Feb-20-09 06:30 PM   #85 
  - "He was defending his traditions and values."  Occam Bandage   Feb-20-09 08:20 PM   #87 
  - At that point in time it was an accepted  marksmithfield   Feb-20-09 10:23 PM   #91 
     - And in 1943 Germany, rounding up Jews and sending them to camps was an accepted norm.  Occam Bandage   Feb-21-09 09:48 AM   #125 
  - that's fucking insane.  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 10:56 PM   #97 
  - Did somebody here on DU actually compare AFRICAN AMERICANS to CATTLE?  Hugabear   Feb-20-09 11:06 PM   #103 
     - Oh come on  marksmithfield   Feb-21-09 07:04 AM   #122 
  - The federal constitution legitmized slavery  Zomby Woof   Feb-21-09 12:39 AM   #109 
     - Could you point out the clause  Radical Activist   Feb-21-09 01:34 AM   #116 
     - And the South was terrified that the incoming, apparently Radical Republican President  Occam Bandage   Feb-21-09 09:49 AM   #126 
  - A confederate general (Wade Hampton), not an enlisted man, was my school mascot...  mitchum   Feb-20-09 03:31 PM   #50 
  - Yes, no one can expect AA people not to be offended by the  treestar   Feb-20-09 03:36 PM   #56 
  - American education is woefully deficient in Math & Science. Your new mascot should be a rhombus.  Warren DeMontague   Feb-20-09 03:41 PM   #63 
  - There's a school near me whose mascot is a "senator"  SemiCharmedQuark   Feb-20-09 03:46 PM   #69 
     - See, but if they made Werner Heisenberg your hockey team mascot, the other team's goalie would have  Warren DeMontague   Feb-20-09 03:56 PM   #71 
        - Technically, that is true of a puck.  daleo   Feb-20-09 06:02 PM   #79 
  - Is this?  baldguy   Feb-20-09 05:32 PM   #77 
  - Fightin' Whities pic.....  voc   Feb-21-09 12:41 AM   #111 
  - Keep the logo, rename it treasonous fuckwads  JVS   Feb-20-09 06:21 PM   #82 
  - yes!  Radical Activist   Feb-20-09 11:14 PM   #105 
  - have a drink of Chink:  Gabi Hayes   Feb-20-09 06:27 PM   #84 
  - "Liberal and their pathetic ilk can go to Hell!! CHINKS FOREVER''  Bluebear   Feb-21-09 03:24 PM   #131 
  - No more offensive than this:  cherokeeprogressive   Feb-20-09 10:31 PM   #92 
  - My high school mascot was a generic "Indian" in a large head dress in profile.  EFerrari   Feb-21-09 12:42 AM   #112 
  - Heh. I remember South High School  Hawkeye-X   Feb-20-09 10:55 PM   #96 
  - Yes  blogslut   Feb-21-09 12:15 AM   #106 
  - No, because it's an American veteran  Zomby Woof   Feb-21-09 12:36 AM   #108 
  - Well Stated.  Thothmes   Feb-21-09 05:43 AM   #121 
  - You didn't just say "mulatto" did you? What graduating class were you, 1952?  Bluebear   Feb-21-09 01:36 AM   #117 
  - Offensive or not, it's a terrible mascot.  surrealAmerican   Feb-21-09 10:15 AM   #127 

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