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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. and insurance companies charge premiums based on the whole group
health expenditures, so single payer insurance is no different. My insurance goes up every year and we never use it. So obviously I'm paying for someone else's health care.

Being as perfect as you are I'm surprised you haven't been crucified.
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  -Americans do not want to pay for universal health care lynyrd_skynyrd  Mar-26-07 05:10 PM   #0 
  - This American welcomes universal health care with open arms.  Tinman   Mar-26-07 05:12 PM   #1 
  - I'm sure that this will make me a minority around here, but....  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:24 PM   #13 
     - And I'm sure you and your wife will remain perfectly healthy until the day you die.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #15 
     - So, what's your point?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:33 PM   #21 
        - My point is that *everyone* belongs in the same pool, paying the same price.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:36 PM   #23 
        - You nailed it.  GoneOffShore   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #37 
        - So do agree that single payer creates a moral hazard problem?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:58 PM   #41 
           - why?  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:14 PM   #52 
           - smoking for example - main reason people want to nail it is because it drives up costs  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 06:31 PM   #61 
           - Canada does not have "nanny lobbyists" - but FreeRepublic sells the idea n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 07:16 PM   #87 
           - We have em here on DU and in America in general (nt)  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 07:52 PM   #98 
           - Word.  Evoman   Mar-26-07 07:53 PM   #99 
           - Republics *are* the nanny lobbyists, if they are healthy. They are the ones who do not want to pay  berni_mccoy   Mar-27-07 08:23 AM   #143 
           - so ditch the whole system because of fear of nanny lobbyists??  LSK   Mar-26-07 07:18 PM   #89 
           - Not saying to ditch it  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 07:52 PM   #97 
           - Not at all sure of that  LeftishBrit   Mar-27-07 06:33 AM   #128 
           - I do--sounds to me like the TAX-EXEMPT Heritage Foundation's press room.  blondeatlast   Mar-26-07 09:02 PM   #114 
           - hasn't happened in every other country that has some form of universal  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 06:29 PM   #59 
           - Why is that not a problem in  realpolitik   Mar-26-07 07:00 PM   #78 
           - Moral hazard meaning getting somrthing for "nothing" - like the rich do via the welfare for the rich  papau   Mar-26-07 07:11 PM   #85 
              - Kind of...  jhasp   Mar-27-07 08:39 AM   #146 
        - What are the actual figures?  treestar   Mar-26-07 06:57 PM   #77 
        - But my existing insurance gives me peace of mind.  jhasp   Mar-27-07 09:07 AM   #148 
        - Indeed you don't expect to die - but you do - and not just at old age - this  papau   Mar-26-07 07:07 PM   #81 
           - Thank you for you well-reasoned arguments.  jhasp   Mar-27-07 09:12 AM   #151 
     - and insurance companies charge premiums based on the whole group  BlackVelvet04   Mar-26-07 05:35 PM   #22 
     - Premiums? From what I can tell, Canada provides health CARE, not health INSURANCE.  jtrockville   Mar-26-07 05:42 PM   #25 
     - You're correct......  BlackVelvet04   Mar-26-07 05:52 PM   # 
     - What costs do insurance companies include?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:07 PM   # 
        - ummm the millionaire lifestyles of the Insurance Company execs for starters  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:16 PM   #53 
        - big advertising budgets... . . . .n/t  annabanana   Mar-26-07 06:33 PM   #63 
        - It also depends on what kind of a hit the insurance companies  Lars39   Mar-26-07 06:38 PM   #66 
        - nonsense - come back when you have have the actuarial stats- cultural -  papau   Mar-26-07 07:15 PM   #86 
        - Your second paragraph is an argument FOR not against UHC .  CTyankee   Mar-27-07 07:51 AM   #138 
        - Take a look at their ADMINISTRATIVE costs  kenzee13   Mar-27-07 08:19 AM   #142 
     - Bull.  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:00 PM   #42 
        - Risk factors don't tell the whole story  Connonym   Mar-27-07 08:11 AM   #141 
     - wow...what a shallow and nasty attitude some people have.  QuestionAll   Mar-26-07 05:43 PM   #27 
     - That's not entirely fair.  Telly Savalas   Mar-26-07 06:16 PM   #54 
        - If your points are valid...  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:46 PM   #72 
           - It is called anti-selection - the not yet sick kick the sick to the curb to get lower costs  papau   Mar-26-07 07:27 PM   #90 
           - For a couple of reasons  Telly Savalas   Mar-26-07 07:34 PM   #93 
           - For the same reason that your property tax assessment for the fire department--  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:30 AM   #119 
     - i understand where you're coming from.  NotGivingUp   Mar-26-07 05:44 PM   #30 
     - I hope you are a minority around here  Der Blaue Engel   Mar-26-07 05:52 PM   #34 
     - Why is my attitude the problem?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:01 PM   #43 
        - because you base your opinion on a lot of false assumptions  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:12 PM   #50 
        - why would you have to spend more time working?  freeplessinseattle   Mar-26-07 06:27 PM   #57 
        - Do you really think you have that much control?  bvar22   Mar-26-07 06:44 PM   #71 
        - Everyone else has already explained the way this works to you  Der Blaue Engel   Mar-26-07 07:08 PM   #82 
     - Countries with national health services do not impose lifestyles on people any more than other  LeftishBrit   Mar-26-07 06:09 PM   #47 
     - Lifestyle choices = saving money = complete and total bullshit.  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:31 AM   #120 
     - you are not describing universal healthcare, but something else  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:11 PM   #48 
     - He's describing Social Darwinism  AllieB   Mar-26-07 06:30 PM   #60 
     - and if you get hit by a bus tomorrow  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 06:25 PM   #55 
     - But you are in many cases, already paying for the crack whore  truedelphi   Mar-26-07 06:28 PM   #58 
     - pre-existing conditions  shatter   Mar-28-07 01:18 AM   #157 
        - Agreed -Also I just realized that the tone of my original reply  truedelphi   Mar-28-07 01:29 PM   #158 
     - Universal Health Care doesn't necessarily mean free everything...  mikelewis   Mar-26-07 06:52 PM   #74 
     - Good for you  realpolitik   Mar-26-07 06:57 PM   #76 
     - Sorry Charlie - even without single payer you pay for idiots taking health risks 'cause they don't  papau   Mar-26-07 07:04 PM   #79 
     - You already pay for the uninsured. In a single payer system they would pay in also.  John Q. Citizen   Mar-26-07 07:44 PM   #94 
     - There is no basis for your scenario  lynyrd_skynyrd   Mar-26-07 07:57 PM   #100 
     - disease happens, pal  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:32 PM   #107 
     - So if I've planned for my own retirement, should I argue the end of Social Security??  AZBlue   Mar-26-07 09:49 PM   #117 
     - Well, if your house catches fire, they shouldn't send a truck out--  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:27 AM   #118 
     - me me me me me me me me me-itis is what's wrong with the USA  SoCalDem   Mar-27-07 02:26 AM   #126 
     - aint that the truth! n/t  Zodiak Ironfist   Mar-27-07 09:07 AM   #149 
     - Interesting attitude, unfortunately you are wrong in so many ways it's hard to know  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 06:59 AM   #129 
     - Well, you obviously haven't had children, either.  Bridget Burke   Mar-27-07 07:53 AM   #140 
     - Wow - isn't that special and narrow minded!  xxqqqzme   Mar-27-07 09:58 PM   #154 
  - You're right, it is about priorities.  ThomCat   Mar-26-07 05:12 PM   #2 
  - Not true...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:16 PM   #3 
  - And if the truth be told the cost would go down  Toots   Mar-26-07 05:31 PM   #20 
     - You're right...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:43 PM   #28 
  - yes our country is insane  Pharaoh   Mar-26-07 05:16 PM   #4 
  - Some say that American's don't want to pay for health care...others  movonne   Mar-26-07 05:17 PM   #5 
  - basing arguments on your neighborhood doesn't cut it.  Donnachaidh   Mar-26-07 05:18 PM   #6 
  - And it still didn't stop him from using that broad brush, did it?  Blue State Native   Mar-27-07 08:38 AM   #145 
  - I think if it were sold to people in terms of "never fight with an  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-26-07 05:18 PM   #7 
  - You are quite right. However, doesn't Canada have an arrangement with the US  napi21   Mar-26-07 05:21 PM   #8 
  - Perhaps you could look up those "plans"  Bridget Burke   Mar-27-07 07:48 AM   #136 
  - I do. (See your point though, if it's not the socialism boogeyman [Aggh!], it's the money.)  pinto   Mar-26-07 05:21 PM   #9 
  - I never heard a valid argument  MAGICBULLET   Mar-26-07 05:22 PM   #10 
  - None backed up with facts...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:24 PM   #12 
  - Americans pay the most and get the least  Tempest   Mar-26-07 05:30 PM   #19 
     - Yeah, we pay DOUBLE what everyone else does...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:37 PM   #24 
  - Most common argument I've heard is...  sutz12   Mar-26-07 05:44 PM   #29 
  - I believe that argument is ...ME ME ME ME  angstlessk   Mar-26-07 07:46 PM   #95 
  - Which is cheaper? 9% of GDP or 14% of GDP??  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 05:22 PM   #11 
  - And the Canadians live 2.5 years longer with child health way ahead of ours. n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 07:17 PM   #88 
     - Yep. And for an example of how stupid people can be, just look above.  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 07:59 PM   #101 
        - I agree - I assume it is a full moon night or something 'cause folks are usually smarter n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 08:57 PM   #112 
  - You are wrong...the majority of US citizens want us out of the war.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:26 PM   #14 
  - This American pays more for Health Insurance than I do in taxes  ThoughtCriminal   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #16 
  - I don't want to hear about it  flyingfysh   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #17 
  - That's not what the polls say  Tempest   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #18 
  - How many great potential entrepreneurs are stifled because they  Gidney N Cloyd   Mar-26-07 05:42 PM   #26 
  - How many Toyota factories got diverted to Canada....  sutz12   Mar-26-07 05:46 PM   #31 
  - Toyota? How 'bout GM and Ford?  Gidney N Cloyd   Mar-26-07 05:50 PM   #33 
  - How many people can't take early retirement and do volunteer work in the community? n/t  antigop   Mar-26-07 08:27 PM   #106 
  - We Tried Taking the Insurance Industry on and It Nearly Destroyed Our Party  AndyTiedye   Mar-26-07 05:47 PM   #32 
  - Those of us with no insurance or what pretends to be insurance  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:53 PM   #35 
  - no, that was the problem with HillaryCare, it KEPT the insurance companies in the  kath   Mar-26-07 08:02 PM   #103 
  - They ARE paying for it already  Jacobin   Mar-26-07 05:54 PM   #36 
  - Have you ever looked into how much this country pays for health care?  gollygee   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #38 
  - I've wanted Canadian style health care  ayeshahaqqiqa   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #39 
  - It's not all roses in Canada  JMDEM   Mar-26-07 05:57 PM   #40 
  - Of course, I'd expect that in Alberta  lynyrd_skynyrd   Mar-26-07 06:07 PM   #45 
  - Agreed--from what I've heard, Alberta is the RW province.  Nay   Mar-26-07 06:32 PM   #62 
  - I live in Raleigh NC  Pavulon   Mar-26-07 06:36 PM   #65 
  - Hmmm, your experience in Alberta is very "different" than mine  Spazito   Mar-26-07 07:07 PM   #80 
  - Thanks for your story - that other poster's account didn't smell right to me.  kath   Mar-26-07 08:08 PM   #105 
     - Are you calling me a liar, Kath?  JMDEM   Mar-26-07 09:10 PM   #116 
     - Sorry. That post was asshole-ish of me.  kath   Mar-27-07 11:42 PM   #155 
     - You're welcome, I have posted my own experience and that  Spazito   Mar-27-07 09:11 AM   #150 
        - Thanks for linking to that report - it's very informative.  kath   Mar-27-07 11:46 PM   #156 
  - One does not sue doctors in the EU - yet their health care is better than ours- so getting even does  papau   Mar-26-07 07:31 PM   #92 
  - So right now I pay about 500 dollars a months  MistressOverdone   Mar-26-07 06:05 PM   #44 
  - I think it was Thom Hartmann who recently pointed out that  MN ChimpH8R   Mar-26-07 06:09 PM   #46 
  - Ding ding ding! There's the magic word I've been looking for.  Canuckistanian   Mar-26-07 06:26 PM   #56 
  - and everyone who doesn't want it  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 07:09 PM   #83 
  - Yep. And for every dime of unnecessary overhead cost, at least a penny is profiteering.  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 08:05 PM   #104 
  - yes, and one of the arguments for privatisation was that 'burocracy' is inefficient  rman   Mar-27-07 07:17 AM   #131 
  - In my former (and maybe future) career, almost half of my time was spent with medical workers,  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 07:27 AM   #133 
  - Yes, they want to support Insurance companies! Nothin' makes them feel better than the thought of  Tom Joad   Mar-26-07 06:12 PM   #49 
  - Kerry was beat to hell on cutting military spending  sandnsea   Mar-26-07 06:14 PM   #51 
  - I'll bet the Defense/Pentagon budgets could more than pay for UHC, with  WinkyDink   Mar-26-07 06:36 PM   #64 
  - Hell, 10% of our "defense" budget could give the WORLD  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 07:42 AM   #135 
  - As an American I'd rather have my taxes go to U health care than defense  shadowknows69   Mar-26-07 06:38 PM   #67 
  - We will have Universal Health it is inevitable  lovuian   Mar-26-07 06:40 PM   #68 
  - In BC, you're required to pay a monthly premium.  tuvor   Mar-26-07 06:41 PM   #69 
  - Guess what..  sendero   Mar-26-07 06:41 PM   #70 
  - Send them this link: Fighting for the welfare state  never cry wolf   Mar-26-07 06:50 PM   #73 
  - Your relatives like most Americans have been propagandized  Cleita   Mar-26-07 06:54 PM   #75 
  - Canadian who became American permanent resident here  AliceWonderland   Mar-26-07 07:10 PM   #84 
  - Try reading POLLS, rather than shooting from the hip, or listening to your family.  bobbolink   Mar-26-07 07:30 PM   #91 
  - I have to agree with the OP on this one, most people seem to feel  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:35 PM   #109 
     - Odd that: poll data says yes to UHC.  Warren Stupidity   Mar-26-07 08:39 PM   #110 
     - basically your link says that Americans want it, yes, but it never happens  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:53 PM   #111 
     - So you say.  Warren Stupidity   Mar-26-07 08:59 PM   #113 
     - want, yes. Want to pay for, no. The Republicans realize this. Watch them campaign.  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 09:07 PM   #115 
     - Bingo  RGBolen   Mar-27-07 01:52 AM   #123 
     - They were defeated by Congresscritters who had been bought by the  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-27-07 09:42 PM   #153 
     - "Most people"? Or just YOU?  bobbolink   Mar-27-07 08:06 PM   #152 
  - We spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR for health insurance.  Atman   Mar-26-07 07:51 PM   #96 
  - We're paying for healthcare both in taxes and premiums.  mmonk   Mar-26-07 08:01 PM   #102 
  - Bingo. Americans are stupid and selfish.  Atman   Mar-26-07 08:34 PM   #108 
  - You're 100% right  NewJeffCT   Mar-27-07 07:38 AM   #134 
  - We do NOT have to pay more to get universal health care  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:34 AM   #121 
  - When presented this way....who in their right mind  Mind_your_head   Mar-27-07 01:42 AM   #122 
  - If Americans can be talked into an illegals occupation  Nutmegger   Mar-27-07 02:00 AM   #124 
  - hey free bird--welcome to du!  orleans   Mar-27-07 02:07 AM   #125 
  - Americans ARE paying for it  leftofthedial   Mar-27-07 02:30 AM   #127 
  - That's one of my favorite Dean quotes.  sfexpat2000   Mar-27-07 07:01 AM   #130 
     - I thought it was the Kooch (maybe they both said it?)  helderheid   Mar-27-07 07:52 AM   #139 
        - Maybe. We should ALL say it.  sfexpat2000   Mar-27-07 08:45 AM   #147 
  - My tax rate would need to be 75% to match what health insurance  Vinca   Mar-27-07 07:25 AM   #132 
  - Aren't we ALREADY paying for it and just not getting it? n/t  helderheid   Mar-27-07 07:50 AM   #137 
  - Not all Americans...  qwlauren35   Mar-27-07 08:30 AM   #144 
 

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