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Reply #21: So, what's your point? [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
jhasp Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. So, what's your point?
Insurance premiums are based on what is expected. I am expected to have lower health expenditures than someone who has unprotected sex with multiple partners, gets drunk every night, is 80 lbs. overweight, and skydives. Therefore, I pay lower premiums for the same level of coverage. Single-payer health plans that do not adjust for risk factors create a moral hazard problem (see FSLIC insurance in the 1980s and the resulting Savings and Loan bailout in the 80s for an example). Single-payer health plans that do adjust for risk factors will be seen as discriminatory and passing moral judgments.
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  -Americans do not want to pay for universal health care lynyrd_skynyrd  Mar-26-07 05:10 PM   #0 
  - This American welcomes universal health care with open arms.  Tinman   Mar-26-07 05:12 PM   #1 
  - I'm sure that this will make me a minority around here, but....  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:24 PM   #13 
     - And I'm sure you and your wife will remain perfectly healthy until the day you die.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #15 
     - So, what's your point?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:33 PM   #21 
        - My point is that *everyone* belongs in the same pool, paying the same price.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:36 PM   #23 
        - You nailed it.  GoneOffShore   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #37 
        - So do agree that single payer creates a moral hazard problem?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 05:58 PM   #41 
           - why?  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:14 PM   #52 
           - smoking for example - main reason people want to nail it is because it drives up costs  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 06:31 PM   #61 
           - Canada does not have "nanny lobbyists" - but FreeRepublic sells the idea n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 07:16 PM   #87 
           - We have em here on DU and in America in general (nt)  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 07:52 PM   #98 
           - Word.  Evoman   Mar-26-07 07:53 PM   #99 
           - Republics *are* the nanny lobbyists, if they are healthy. They are the ones who do not want to pay  berni_mccoy   Mar-27-07 08:23 AM   #143 
           - so ditch the whole system because of fear of nanny lobbyists??  LSK   Mar-26-07 07:18 PM   #89 
           - Not saying to ditch it  The Straight Story   Mar-26-07 07:52 PM   #97 
           - Not at all sure of that  LeftishBrit   Mar-27-07 06:33 AM   #128 
           - I do--sounds to me like the TAX-EXEMPT Heritage Foundation's press room.  blondeatlast   Mar-26-07 09:02 PM   #114 
           - hasn't happened in every other country that has some form of universal  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 06:29 PM   #59 
           - Why is that not a problem in  realpolitik   Mar-26-07 07:00 PM   #78 
           - Moral hazard meaning getting somrthing for "nothing" - like the rich do via the welfare for the rich  papau   Mar-26-07 07:11 PM   #85 
              - Kind of...  jhasp   Mar-27-07 08:39 AM   #146 
        - What are the actual figures?  treestar   Mar-26-07 06:57 PM   #77 
        - But my existing insurance gives me peace of mind.  jhasp   Mar-27-07 09:07 AM   #148 
        - Indeed you don't expect to die - but you do - and not just at old age - this  papau   Mar-26-07 07:07 PM   #81 
           - Thank you for you well-reasoned arguments.  jhasp   Mar-27-07 09:12 AM   #151 
     - and insurance companies charge premiums based on the whole group  BlackVelvet04   Mar-26-07 05:35 PM   #22 
     - Premiums? From what I can tell, Canada provides health CARE, not health INSURANCE.  jtrockville   Mar-26-07 05:42 PM   #25 
     - You're correct......  BlackVelvet04   Mar-26-07 05:52 PM   # 
     - What costs do insurance companies include?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:07 PM   # 
        - ummm the millionaire lifestyles of the Insurance Company execs for starters  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:16 PM   #53 
        - big advertising budgets... . . . .n/t  annabanana   Mar-26-07 06:33 PM   #63 
        - It also depends on what kind of a hit the insurance companies  Lars39   Mar-26-07 06:38 PM   #66 
        - nonsense - come back when you have have the actuarial stats- cultural -  papau   Mar-26-07 07:15 PM   #86 
        - Your second paragraph is an argument FOR not against UHC .  CTyankee   Mar-27-07 07:51 AM   #138 
        - Take a look at their ADMINISTRATIVE costs  kenzee13   Mar-27-07 08:19 AM   #142 
     - Bull.  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:00 PM   #42 
        - Risk factors don't tell the whole story  Connonym   Mar-27-07 08:11 AM   #141 
     - wow...what a shallow and nasty attitude some people have.  QuestionAll   Mar-26-07 05:43 PM   #27 
     - That's not entirely fair.  Telly Savalas   Mar-26-07 06:16 PM   #54 
        - If your points are valid...  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:46 PM   #72 
           - It is called anti-selection - the not yet sick kick the sick to the curb to get lower costs  papau   Mar-26-07 07:27 PM   #90 
           - For a couple of reasons  Telly Savalas   Mar-26-07 07:34 PM   #93 
           - For the same reason that your property tax assessment for the fire department--  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:30 AM   #119 
     - i understand where you're coming from.  NotGivingUp   Mar-26-07 05:44 PM   #30 
     - I hope you are a minority around here  Der Blaue Engel   Mar-26-07 05:52 PM   #34 
     - Why is my attitude the problem?  jhasp   Mar-26-07 06:01 PM   #43 
        - because you base your opinion on a lot of false assumptions  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:12 PM   #50 
        - why would you have to spend more time working?  freeplessinseattle   Mar-26-07 06:27 PM   #57 
        - Do you really think you have that much control?  bvar22   Mar-26-07 06:44 PM   #71 
        - Everyone else has already explained the way this works to you  Der Blaue Engel   Mar-26-07 07:08 PM   #82 
     - Countries with national health services do not impose lifestyles on people any more than other  LeftishBrit   Mar-26-07 06:09 PM   #47 
     - Lifestyle choices = saving money = complete and total bullshit.  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:31 AM   #120 
     - you are not describing universal healthcare, but something else  LSK   Mar-26-07 06:11 PM   #48 
     - He's describing Social Darwinism  AllieB   Mar-26-07 06:30 PM   #60 
     - and if you get hit by a bus tomorrow  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 06:25 PM   #55 
     - But you are in many cases, already paying for the crack whore  truedelphi   Mar-26-07 06:28 PM   #58 
     - pre-existing conditions  shatter   Mar-28-07 01:18 AM   #157 
        - Agreed -Also I just realized that the tone of my original reply  truedelphi   Mar-28-07 01:29 PM   #158 
     - Universal Health Care doesn't necessarily mean free everything...  mikelewis   Mar-26-07 06:52 PM   #74 
     - Good for you  realpolitik   Mar-26-07 06:57 PM   #76 
     - Sorry Charlie - even without single payer you pay for idiots taking health risks 'cause they don't  papau   Mar-26-07 07:04 PM   #79 
     - You already pay for the uninsured. In a single payer system they would pay in also.  John Q. Citizen   Mar-26-07 07:44 PM   #94 
     - There is no basis for your scenario  lynyrd_skynyrd   Mar-26-07 07:57 PM   #100 
     - disease happens, pal  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:32 PM   #107 
     - So if I've planned for my own retirement, should I argue the end of Social Security??  AZBlue   Mar-26-07 09:49 PM   #117 
     - Well, if your house catches fire, they shouldn't send a truck out--  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:27 AM   #118 
     - me me me me me me me me me-itis is what's wrong with the USA  SoCalDem   Mar-27-07 02:26 AM   #126 
     - aint that the truth! n/t  Zodiak Ironfist   Mar-27-07 09:07 AM   #149 
     - Interesting attitude, unfortunately you are wrong in so many ways it's hard to know  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 06:59 AM   #129 
     - Well, you obviously haven't had children, either.  Bridget Burke   Mar-27-07 07:53 AM   #140 
     - Wow - isn't that special and narrow minded!  xxqqqzme   Mar-27-07 09:58 PM   #154 
  - You're right, it is about priorities.  ThomCat   Mar-26-07 05:12 PM   #2 
  - Not true...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:16 PM   #3 
  - And if the truth be told the cost would go down  Toots   Mar-26-07 05:31 PM   #20 
     - You're right...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:43 PM   #28 
  - yes our country is insane  Pharaoh   Mar-26-07 05:16 PM   #4 
  - Some say that American's don't want to pay for health care...others  movonne   Mar-26-07 05:17 PM   #5 
  - basing arguments on your neighborhood doesn't cut it.  Donnachaidh   Mar-26-07 05:18 PM   #6 
  - And it still didn't stop him from using that broad brush, did it?  Blue State Native   Mar-27-07 08:38 AM   #145 
  - I think if it were sold to people in terms of "never fight with an  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-26-07 05:18 PM   #7 
  - You are quite right. However, doesn't Canada have an arrangement with the US  napi21   Mar-26-07 05:21 PM   #8 
  - Perhaps you could look up those "plans"  Bridget Burke   Mar-27-07 07:48 AM   #136 
  - I do. (See your point though, if it's not the socialism boogeyman [Aggh!], it's the money.)  pinto   Mar-26-07 05:21 PM   #9 
  - I never heard a valid argument  MAGICBULLET   Mar-26-07 05:22 PM   #10 
  - None backed up with facts...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:24 PM   #12 
  - Americans pay the most and get the least  Tempest   Mar-26-07 05:30 PM   #19 
     - Yeah, we pay DOUBLE what everyone else does...  Sir Jeffrey   Mar-26-07 05:37 PM   #24 
  - Most common argument I've heard is...  sutz12   Mar-26-07 05:44 PM   #29 
  - I believe that argument is ...ME ME ME ME  angstlessk   Mar-26-07 07:46 PM   #95 
  - Which is cheaper? 9% of GDP or 14% of GDP??  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 05:22 PM   #11 
  - And the Canadians live 2.5 years longer with child health way ahead of ours. n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 07:17 PM   #88 
     - Yep. And for an example of how stupid people can be, just look above.  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 07:59 PM   #101 
        - I agree - I assume it is a full moon night or something 'cause folks are usually smarter n/t  papau   Mar-26-07 08:57 PM   #112 
  - You are wrong...the majority of US citizens want us out of the war.  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:26 PM   #14 
  - This American pays more for Health Insurance than I do in taxes  ThoughtCriminal   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #16 
  - I don't want to hear about it  flyingfysh   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #17 
  - That's not what the polls say  Tempest   Mar-26-07 05:28 PM   #18 
  - How many great potential entrepreneurs are stifled because they  Gidney N Cloyd   Mar-26-07 05:42 PM   #26 
  - How many Toyota factories got diverted to Canada....  sutz12   Mar-26-07 05:46 PM   #31 
  - Toyota? How 'bout GM and Ford?  Gidney N Cloyd   Mar-26-07 05:50 PM   #33 
  - How many people can't take early retirement and do volunteer work in the community? n/t  antigop   Mar-26-07 08:27 PM   #106 
  - We Tried Taking the Insurance Industry on and It Nearly Destroyed Our Party  AndyTiedye   Mar-26-07 05:47 PM   #32 
  - Those of us with no insurance or what pretends to be insurance  Lars39   Mar-26-07 05:53 PM   #35 
  - no, that was the problem with HillaryCare, it KEPT the insurance companies in the  kath   Mar-26-07 08:02 PM   #103 
  - They ARE paying for it already  Jacobin   Mar-26-07 05:54 PM   #36 
  - Have you ever looked into how much this country pays for health care?  gollygee   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #38 
  - I've wanted Canadian style health care  ayeshahaqqiqa   Mar-26-07 05:55 PM   #39 
  - It's not all roses in Canada  JMDEM   Mar-26-07 05:57 PM   #40 
  - Of course, I'd expect that in Alberta  lynyrd_skynyrd   Mar-26-07 06:07 PM   #45 
  - Agreed--from what I've heard, Alberta is the RW province.  Nay   Mar-26-07 06:32 PM   #62 
  - I live in Raleigh NC  Pavulon   Mar-26-07 06:36 PM   #65 
  - Hmmm, your experience in Alberta is very "different" than mine  Spazito   Mar-26-07 07:07 PM   #80 
  - Thanks for your story - that other poster's account didn't smell right to me.  kath   Mar-26-07 08:08 PM   #105 
     - Are you calling me a liar, Kath?  JMDEM   Mar-26-07 09:10 PM   #116 
     - Sorry. That post was asshole-ish of me.  kath   Mar-27-07 11:42 PM   #155 
     - You're welcome, I have posted my own experience and that  Spazito   Mar-27-07 09:11 AM   #150 
        - Thanks for linking to that report - it's very informative.  kath   Mar-27-07 11:46 PM   #156 
  - One does not sue doctors in the EU - yet their health care is better than ours- so getting even does  papau   Mar-26-07 07:31 PM   #92 
  - So right now I pay about 500 dollars a months  MistressOverdone   Mar-26-07 06:05 PM   #44 
  - I think it was Thom Hartmann who recently pointed out that  MN ChimpH8R   Mar-26-07 06:09 PM   #46 
  - Ding ding ding! There's the magic word I've been looking for.  Canuckistanian   Mar-26-07 06:26 PM   #56 
  - and everyone who doesn't want it  Viva_La_Revolution   Mar-26-07 07:09 PM   #83 
  - Yep. And for every dime of unnecessary overhead cost, at least a penny is profiteering.  TahitiNut   Mar-26-07 08:05 PM   #104 
  - yes, and one of the arguments for privatisation was that 'burocracy' is inefficient  rman   Mar-27-07 07:17 AM   #131 
  - In my former (and maybe future) career, almost half of my time was spent with medical workers,  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 07:27 AM   #133 
  - Yes, they want to support Insurance companies! Nothin' makes them feel better than the thought of  Tom Joad   Mar-26-07 06:12 PM   #49 
  - Kerry was beat to hell on cutting military spending  sandnsea   Mar-26-07 06:14 PM   #51 
  - I'll bet the Defense/Pentagon budgets could more than pay for UHC, with  WinkyDink   Mar-26-07 06:36 PM   #64 
  - Hell, 10% of our "defense" budget could give the WORLD  greyhound1966   Mar-27-07 07:42 AM   #135 
  - As an American I'd rather have my taxes go to U health care than defense  shadowknows69   Mar-26-07 06:38 PM   #67 
  - We will have Universal Health it is inevitable  lovuian   Mar-26-07 06:40 PM   #68 
  - In BC, you're required to pay a monthly premium.  tuvor   Mar-26-07 06:41 PM   #69 
  - Guess what..  sendero   Mar-26-07 06:41 PM   #70 
  - Send them this link: Fighting for the welfare state  never cry wolf   Mar-26-07 06:50 PM   #73 
  - Your relatives like most Americans have been propagandized  Cleita   Mar-26-07 06:54 PM   #75 
  - Canadian who became American permanent resident here  AliceWonderland   Mar-26-07 07:10 PM   #84 
  - Try reading POLLS, rather than shooting from the hip, or listening to your family.  bobbolink   Mar-26-07 07:30 PM   #91 
  - I have to agree with the OP on this one, most people seem to feel  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:35 PM   #109 
     - Odd that: poll data says yes to UHC.  Warren Stupidity   Mar-26-07 08:39 PM   #110 
     - basically your link says that Americans want it, yes, but it never happens  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 08:53 PM   #111 
     - So you say.  Warren Stupidity   Mar-26-07 08:59 PM   #113 
     - want, yes. Want to pay for, no. The Republicans realize this. Watch them campaign.  ComerPerro   Mar-26-07 09:07 PM   #115 
     - Bingo  RGBolen   Mar-27-07 01:52 AM   #123 
     - They were defeated by Congresscritters who had been bought by the  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-27-07 09:42 PM   #153 
     - "Most people"? Or just YOU?  bobbolink   Mar-27-07 08:06 PM   #152 
  - We spend THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR for health insurance.  Atman   Mar-26-07 07:51 PM   #96 
  - We're paying for healthcare both in taxes and premiums.  mmonk   Mar-26-07 08:01 PM   #102 
  - Bingo. Americans are stupid and selfish.  Atman   Mar-26-07 08:34 PM   #108 
  - You're 100% right  NewJeffCT   Mar-27-07 07:38 AM   #134 
  - We do NOT have to pay more to get universal health care  eridani   Mar-27-07 01:34 AM   #121 
  - When presented this way....who in their right mind  Mind_your_head   Mar-27-07 01:42 AM   #122 
  - If Americans can be talked into an illegals occupation  Nutmegger   Mar-27-07 02:00 AM   #124 
  - hey free bird--welcome to du!  orleans   Mar-27-07 02:07 AM   #125 
  - Americans ARE paying for it  leftofthedial   Mar-27-07 02:30 AM   #127 
  - That's one of my favorite Dean quotes.  sfexpat2000   Mar-27-07 07:01 AM   #130 
     - I thought it was the Kooch (maybe they both said it?)  helderheid   Mar-27-07 07:52 AM   #139 
        - Maybe. We should ALL say it.  sfexpat2000   Mar-27-07 08:45 AM   #147 
  - My tax rate would need to be 75% to match what health insurance  Vinca   Mar-27-07 07:25 AM   #132 
  - Aren't we ALREADY paying for it and just not getting it? n/t  helderheid   Mar-27-07 07:50 AM   #137 
  - Not all Americans...  qwlauren35   Mar-27-07 08:30 AM   #144 
 

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