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Reply #62: I went to a truly facsinating lecture about a month ago [View All]

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Amelie Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-13-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. I went to a truly facsinating lecture about a month ago
about hard-wired differences between boys and girls. The lecturer said the push for gender-neutral toys were a response to the hard-line attitudes in the 50s; girls could only be housewives, nurses or teachers; boys were expected to be tough and athletic. He believes that we can have equal opportunity without ignoring very real differences in gender. He also made clear that all studies show there are NO differences in ability; the differences are in motivation.

Now that we are so advanced in neuroscience, we see that the brains in the genders develop at different rates and in different sequences. At age five, a girl's fine motor skills are four years ahead of a boy's. The boy's gross motor skills are four years ahead of a girl's. So, we see girls tend to be better at drawing; boys tend to be better at throwing and kicking.

As we become adults, our brains even out; there are very few differences between a man's brain and a woman's; it's mostly hormonal. But the developmental differences between a boy's brain and a girl's brain are vastly different. For example, adults can sit still and pay attention for about the same amount of time. Not so for six year old boys and six year old girls. Blood flow to a boy's brain actually slows down when he sits still; maybe he can sit still, but he's probably not absorbing as much information. Boys learn better when they are in motion (aka "fidgeting in their desks").

Very interesting lecture.
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  -Why do boys and girls prefer different toys? Occam Bandage  Feb-13-09 11:24 AM   #0 
  - I recall my aunt  JonLP24   Feb-13-09 11:26 AM   #1 
  - As a Brownie, I resented that Boy Scouts were exposed to sharp instruments  no_hypocrisy   Feb-13-09 11:27 AM   #2 
  - It's unavoidable in toddler and preschool kids  Warpy   Feb-13-09 11:40 AM   #15 
  - That kind of stuff drove me nuts as a kid. It was like Home Ec for kids. nt  Captain Hilts   Feb-13-09 11:56 AM   #26 
  - My experience?  QueenOfCalifornia   Feb-13-09 02:08 PM   #72 
  - You can't really generalize your experience with your own children.  surrealAmerican   Feb-13-09 02:44 PM   #87 
  - WAAAHHHH  RobinA   Feb-13-09 02:57 PM   #93 
  - Societal brainwashing, nothing more  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 11:28 AM   #3 
  - Do you believe the monkeys in the study are also brainwashed,  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 11:32 AM   #5 
  - "but the difference in their preference is not statistically significant"  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 11:34 AM   #8 
  - But yet it was significant in both genders of vervets, and one gender of rhesus monkeys.  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 11:36 AM   #11 
  - "Female rhesus monkeys show preference for the feminine toys,  redqueen   Feb-13-09 11:54 AM   #25 
  - I'm not sure why you quoted that again, considering  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 11:57 AM   #27 
     - I misread what you'd said, sorry. Still, the study was meager.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:01 PM   #32 
     - "The statistically-significant findings in a few cases hardly proves anything"  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:14 PM   #39 
     - You might say it called for more research, sure.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:15 PM   #41 
        - You realize that research is not done instantaneously.  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:20 PM   #45 
           - The fact that you're being facetious says something.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:33 PM   #51 
     - Actuallly, the studies' authors  shimmergal   Feb-14-09 01:29 AM   #129 
     - I went to a truly facsinating lecture about a month ago  Amelie   Feb-13-09 01:16 PM   #62 
  - The OP (and the article) stretches the findings way out of proportion  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 11:57 AM   #29 
  - What are the variables you find so offensive?  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:01 PM   #33 
  - Didn't I just write why above?  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 12:06 PM   #35 
     - "With so few species" isn't a variable. nt  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:09 PM   #37 
        - ...  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 12:30 PM   #49 
           - Haha. How embarrassing. Make that "cues"  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 09:13 PM   #110 
  - Exactly... so few species, and such a small sample, and it's so old....  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:02 PM   #34 
     - The sample size isn't especially small, it's reasonable they'd only study one species at a time,  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:09 PM   #36 
        - Is it reasonable they wouldn't try to validate the results they were looking for  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:13 PM   #38 
           - I think that's a bit unfair  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 12:15 PM   #40 
           - What does that exactly mean? That they falsified their data?  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:17 PM   #42 
              - No, it means they were looking for a result.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:19 PM   #43 
                 - What does that mean?  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 12:22 PM   #47 
                    - It means that the first study, done nearly seven years ago...  redqueen   Feb-13-09 12:31 PM   #50 
                       - Hi Pal!  JuniperLea   Feb-13-09 03:51 PM   #105 
                          - Hey there!  redqueen   Feb-13-09 04:11 PM   #108 
                             - Nope. No point at all...  JuniperLea   Feb-13-09 04:28 PM   #109 
  - Satistically insignificant means EXACTLY that.  Political Heretic   Feb-13-09 02:22 PM   #80 
  - It was statistically significant  bobbert   Feb-13-09 12:36 PM   #52 
  - We are brushing it off as non news because you were wrong the first time you read it.  Political Heretic   Feb-13-09 02:45 PM   #88 
  - Not that you've already made your mind up about the findings  LanternWaste   Feb-13-09 03:00 PM   #94 
  - maybe the monkeys' parents told them to play with gender apprioate toys  carlyhippy   Feb-13-09 02:09 PM   #74 
  - I believe.....  quickesst   Feb-14-09 06:20 AM   #137 
  - My parenting experiences leads me to the exact opposite  marybourg   Feb-13-09 11:34 AM   #9 
  - Personal experience does not make for very good evidence as you can clearly see...  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 11:36 AM   #10 
  - Agreed!  ComtesseDeSpair   Feb-13-09 11:41 AM   #16 
  - tiny view you have there ... and obviously no experience n/t  ProdigalJunkMail   Feb-13-09 01:59 PM   #70 
  - Read my experience  QueenOfCalifornia   Feb-13-09 02:17 PM   #77 
  - Nobody is saying you "force" children to play with certain toys.  surrealAmerican   Feb-13-09 03:00 PM   #95 
     - As I mentioned below, outside influence goes beyond the parental type  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 09:14 PM   #111 
     - These preferences sometimes show up before a child is old enough to even gender identify with anyon  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-13-09 09:32 PM   #114 
  - I don't think so. I think there is more to it.  Arugula Latte   Feb-14-09 09:49 PM   #159 
  - believe the term is aculturalization  Thothmes   Feb-15-09 08:44 AM   #179 
  - Do you not believe that boys and girls are fundamentally different in some ways?  slackmaster   Feb-15-09 09:18 AM   #181 
  - One of my cousins like to play with my tea set. He did grow up to be gay, but  Cleita   Feb-13-09 11:29 AM   #4 
  - he was always gay.  iamthebandfanman   Feb-13-09 11:48 AM   #19 
  - I used to have a pink My Little Pony  Veritas_et_Aequitas   Feb-14-09 11:46 AM   #148 
  - They don't.  Kalyke   Feb-13-09 11:32 AM   #6 
  - Ah, let's not forget the anorexia/plastic surgery self-hating prostitute-in-training dolls  Maru Kitteh   Feb-14-09 11:57 AM   #150 
  - Some do, some don't.  david13   Feb-13-09 11:33 AM   #7 
  - Hell, anybody who tried to raise androgynous kids in the late 60s  Warpy   Feb-13-09 11:37 AM   #12 
  - Yes. Those were my experiences with my and neighbors' kids nt.  marybourg   Feb-13-09 11:45 AM   #18 
  - It's interesting, but you're discounting one key factor:  Eryemil   Feb-13-09 11:49 AM   #22 
     - Yes.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 11:57 AM   #28 
     - Infants sometimes do not have such exposure and still show preference along gender lines.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-13-09 10:17 PM   #126 
     - Exactly.  HeresyLives   Feb-13-09 12:44 PM   #58 
     - From where?  Warpy   Feb-13-09 02:16 PM   #76 
        - That is my  QueenOfCalifornia   Feb-13-09 02:21 PM   #79 
        - And when my kids were little there were no VHS tapes,  marybourg   Feb-13-09 09:43 PM   #118 
        - People just want to believe all the sexist bullshit can be unlearned  Warpy   Feb-13-09 10:29 PM   #127 
        - TV?  we can do it   Feb-16-09 07:51 PM   #194 
  - This whole argument would be moot if masculinity were not  sufrommich   Feb-13-09 12:37 PM   #54 
  - Amen  XemaSab   Feb-14-09 04:35 AM   #133 
  - and then there were the kids  8 track mind   Feb-13-09 12:57 PM   #61 
  - My best friend's daughter got a bunch of them one Xmas  Warpy   Feb-13-09 01:54 PM   #68 
  - How imaginative!!  Manifestor_of_Light   Feb-13-09 02:01 PM   #71 
  - Look out -- it's Sid!  Tesha   Feb-16-09 04:47 PM   #192 
  - I had a GI Joe doll  carlyhippy   Feb-13-09 02:12 PM   #75 
  - We drafted our brother's GI Joe  treestar   Feb-14-09 10:40 AM   #140 
  - Hmmm... I must be the exception to the rule, then  JerseygirlCT   Feb-13-09 02:40 PM   #85 
  - I don't buy any pink items.  Kalyke   Feb-13-09 02:47 PM   #90 
  - And yet you have the pink heart after your post!  XemaSab   Feb-14-09 04:38 AM   #134 
  - Oh it's my favorite color  JerseygirlCT   Feb-15-09 10:00 AM   #184 
  - haha, its a generalization. I used to chop of my barbies' hair and throw them across the room.  krabigirl   Feb-13-09 03:05 PM   #99 
  - I was a typical toddler with dolls  Warpy   Feb-13-09 03:39 PM   #101 
  - LOL!  Kaleva   Feb-13-09 09:40 PM   #116 
  - I think that some may be missing this point. Older kids might choose to play with non typical toys.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-13-09 10:14 PM   #125 
  - I'm glad people are studying this  Bill McBlueState   Feb-13-09 11:38 AM   #13 
  - Certainly that wouldn't justify it,  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 11:39 AM   #14 
  - There's always somebody looking for a biological basis for  treestar   Feb-14-09 10:46 AM   #144 
  - They don't.  HeresyLives   Feb-13-09 11:41 AM   #17 
  - So you believe that the researchers falsified their data? nt  Occam Bandage   Feb-13-09 11:54 AM   #24 
  - People find what they are looking for.  HeresyLives   Feb-13-09 12:40 PM   #56 
  - many animals are quite capable of determining what something is for  NeedleCast   Feb-13-09 12:00 PM   #31 
     - Yes, they can find their own uses  HeresyLives   Feb-13-09 12:42 PM   #57 
  - Hardwiring  Stinky The Clown   Feb-13-09 11:48 AM   #20 
  - i played with both  iamthebandfanman   Feb-13-09 11:48 AM   #21 
  - Reminds me of that wonerful Dar Williams song  Lost in CT   Feb-13-09 11:52 AM   #23 
  - i liked boy toys as a young lesbo..but also like my susie homemeaker oven  soothsayer   Feb-13-09 11:59 AM   #30 
  - my daughter played with her brothers toys and he played with her toys...  unapatriciated   Feb-13-09 12:27 PM   #48 
  - Ovens and dolls are different in principle.  Igel   Feb-13-09 01:25 PM   #63 
  - I'm gay and pretty butch  Roon   Feb-13-09 12:20 PM   #44 
  - I had an in-home daycare for six years....  unapatriciated   Feb-13-09 12:22 PM   #46 
  - I never bought military toys for my sons but they made guns out of Leggos!  EFerrari   Feb-13-09 01:38 PM   #66 
     - LOL!  QueenOfCalifornia   Feb-13-09 02:23 PM   #81 
     - Chris used to take the plush dolls we gave him, put them on their backs  ulysses   Feb-13-09 02:51 PM   #92 
        - LOL!  EFerrari   Feb-13-09 03:02 PM   #97 
  - My wife and I don't force any gender roles on our kids.  ZombieHorde   Feb-13-09 12:37 PM   #53 
  - Bakugan  tammywammy   Feb-13-09 02:09 PM   #73 
     - Yes!, she loves Bakugans. I couldn't think of the name. nt  ZombieHorde   Feb-13-09 02:29 PM   #83 
  - my 3 year old son  pnutbutr   Feb-13-09 12:39 PM   #55 
  - Why wouldn't they?  Bonobo   Feb-13-09 12:46 PM   #59 
  - I wish I could  QueenOfCalifornia   Feb-13-09 02:26 PM   #82 
  - Nature vs Nurture  tammywammy   Feb-13-09 12:50 PM   #60 
  - Oddly, I seem to recall reading much more recent  Igel   Feb-13-09 01:34 PM   #64 
  - boys and girls are different  Kaleva   Feb-13-09 09:49 PM   #120 
     - Yeah, girls are smart.  barb162   Feb-15-09 01:04 AM   #176 
        - That's part of a heuristic that works passingly well for me:  BlooInBloo   Feb-15-09 02:18 AM   #178 
           - BWAHA!  barb162   Feb-15-09 12:40 PM   #189 
  - Their brains are a bit different..  SoCalDem   Feb-13-09 01:37 PM   #65 
  - another day, another junk science article at DU to rile up the biological determinalists.  Runcible Spoon   Feb-13-09 01:40 PM   #67 
  - Might be helpful if you ever adopt a caged rhesus monkey. n/t  EFerrari   Feb-13-09 01:56 PM   #69 
  - I'm really suprised there are many clinging to what seems like now ancient modernists worldview.  Political Heretic   Feb-13-09 02:51 PM   #91 
  - I'm not. Not at all.  redqueen   Feb-13-09 03:01 PM   #96 
     - "I don't know why people are so desperate to cling to it..."  nomorenomore08   Feb-13-09 09:55 PM   #121 
        - Can you imagine using that excuse to rationalize keeping a female child back?  redqueen   Feb-14-09 10:34 AM   #139 
           - No, I don't think so. I was just in a shitty mood last night.  nomorenomore08   Feb-14-09 05:02 PM   #153 
  - Do you think sexual orientation is biologically determined?  slackmaster   Feb-15-09 09:24 AM   #182 
     - I think part of the problem is that we think it must be either/or  Political Heretic   Feb-15-09 11:05 AM   #186 
  - Ummm...maybe because boys and girls *are* different?  Common Sense Party   Feb-13-09 02:20 PM   #78 
  - It's nature always has been...  Lost in CT   Feb-13-09 02:33 PM   #84 
  - I think the issue, friend, is how those differences arise and the nature of those differences.  Political Heretic   Feb-13-09 02:47 PM   #89 
  - I preferred dolls as a boy. The conclusion is thus refuted.  Political Heretic   Feb-13-09 02:43 PM   #86 
  - ok, what explains why i hated dolls and preferred action figures and video games?  krabigirl   Feb-13-09 03:03 PM   #98 
  - Odd choice of toys.  surrealAmerican   Feb-13-09 03:18 PM   #100 
  - It's hard-wired, see?  redqueen   Feb-13-09 03:44 PM   #102 
  - Purely social conditioning IMO. I have to laugh when I tell people I believe this...  ContinentalOp   Feb-13-09 03:44 PM   #103 
  - Wow... should I be questioning my sexuality?  JuniperLea   Feb-13-09 03:47 PM   #104 
  - Statistics and Standard Deviations  One_Life_To_Give   Feb-13-09 03:57 PM   #106 
  - Because they do.  Sheets of Easter   Feb-13-09 04:01 PM   #107 
  - Is there the least possibility that what we consider "stereotypically"  Cerridwen   Feb-13-09 09:20 PM   #112 
  - Absolutely. My one yr old son rolls cars the correct way and makes an engine sound.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-13-09 09:23 PM   #113 
  - How do you explain males who preferred dolls and females who preferred trucks then?  Political Heretic   Feb-14-09 04:13 AM   #130 
  - Nearly every account of that here is a mention of an older child.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-14-09 05:58 PM   #154 
     - Gender is more prevalent in children's lives then cars are.  Bjorn Against   Feb-14-09 06:51 PM   #157 
     - So an *infant* understands the difference between a truck and a doll?  Political Heretic   Feb-15-09 02:15 AM   #177 
        - No. That is my point. He is too young to understand society or his place in it  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-15-09 09:38 AM   #183 
           - I could see the smash things together, throw them, bang them thing  Political Heretic   Feb-15-09 10:59 AM   #185 
              - Thank you for this. It is a very nice post. I agree about understanding and acceptance for ALL  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-16-09 03:08 PM   #191 
  - So after one year of socialization your son played with cars...  Bjorn Against   Feb-14-09 11:36 AM   #146 
     - He has had full exposure to a wide variety of toys. Nearly the same toys his three sisters played  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-14-09 06:03 PM   #155 
        - How does your single case prove a biological basis for gender roles?  Bjorn Against   Feb-14-09 06:26 PM   #156 
           - I spoke my opinion, based on my experiences.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-14-09 09:42 PM   #158 
  - I was one of those unusual kids  pipi_k   Feb-13-09 09:37 PM   #115 
  - I have a friend who as 3 girls and 1 boy  cherish44   Feb-13-09 09:43 PM   #117 
  - Yes, a child won't know to mime shooting a gun unless they've seen somebody do it.  ContinentalOp   Feb-13-09 10:00 PM   #123 
  - You gotta be kidding me - as if anyone should have to ask . . .  ConcernedCanuk   Feb-13-09 09:49 PM   #119 
  - as a child care professional IMO  proud patriot   Feb-13-09 09:56 PM   #122 
  - Which is all the more reason to move away from gender based assumptions altogether.  Political Heretic   Feb-14-09 04:26 AM   #132 
  - Agreed  proud patriot   Feb-14-09 03:35 PM   #152 
  - Every boy I've ever known loved legos...  BlooInBloo   Feb-14-09 09:52 PM   #161 
  - Why would a monkey have a sociobiological preference for a cooking pot?  Orangepeel   Feb-13-09 10:02 PM   #124 
  - If this is true why didn't they figure it out before this?  Bjorn Against   Feb-13-09 10:33 PM   #128 
  - I never cared for so called girl toys.  texanwitch   Feb-14-09 04:18 AM   #131 
  - I played with pretty gender-neutral toys and so did most of my friends  XemaSab   Feb-14-09 05:11 AM   #135 
     - I only played with one girl, my best friend.  texanwitch   Feb-14-09 05:30 AM   #136 
  - I played with Ken and Barbie dolls  conscious evolution   Feb-14-09 07:23 AM   #138 
  - Pure social conditioning which we pick up very early  treestar   Feb-14-09 10:44 AM   #141 
  - Yes... babies are like little sponges.  redqueen   Feb-15-09 11:16 AM   #187 
  - When I was in school my mother was both my girl scout letter and my  madmom   Feb-14-09 10:44 AM   #142 
  - I'm still trying to figure out how a monkey knew what a police car was.  alphafemale   Feb-14-09 10:44 AM   #143 
  - I'm certain..  sendero   Feb-14-09 11:07 AM   #145 
  - Interesting. Suggestive. Not conclusive.  Veritas_et_Aequitas   Feb-14-09 11:40 AM   #147 
  - thank you SO MUCH for sharing this -- incredible data!  hiphopnation   Feb-14-09 11:50 AM   #149 
  - wow.  Political Heretic   Feb-14-09 01:44 PM   #151 
  - Did I misread this article? Their preference is not statistically significant  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:20 PM   #167 
  - Partly because boys and girls are different...  BlooInBloo   Feb-14-09 09:50 PM   #160 
  - It's not uncouth (PC, right?) to say that.  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:15 PM   #164 
     - I meant uncouth.  BlooInBloo   Feb-14-09 10:18 PM   #165 
        - Why would it be uncouth to say boys and girls are different?  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:23 PM   #168 
           - I haven't the slightest.  BlooInBloo   Feb-14-09 10:24 PM   #169 
              - I don't think it is uncouth to say boys and girls are different.  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:28 PM   #171 
                 - Neither do I.  BlooInBloo   Feb-14-09 10:28 PM   #173 
  - I'm a woman who as a young girl preferred boys' toys because  Jamastiene   Feb-14-09 09:59 PM   #162 
  - the fun flip side to that are boys who probably saw a dump truck and thought THEY sucked  KittyWampus   Feb-15-09 11:37 AM   #188 
  - I loved my Barbie dolls. LOVED them. I also was very attached to a particular baby doll.  FedUpWithIt All   Feb-16-09 02:59 PM   #190 
  - same here, baby dolls and Barbie's were all stupid....  Scout   Feb-16-09 07:37 PM   #193 
  - For male and female rhesus monkeys their toy preference is not statistically significant  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:09 PM   #163 
     - 'cars aren't given a rectal genital exam,'  xchrom   Feb-14-09 10:19 PM   #166 
     - We need more studies  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 10:25 PM   #170 
        - come to my house -- we'll get out my old models. nt  xchrom   Feb-14-09 10:28 PM   #172 
           - Zsa Zsa?  bluedawg12   Feb-14-09 11:31 PM   #174 
              - oh you wanna get out THAT model.  xchrom   Feb-15-09 08:58 AM   #180 
     - Are you aware that the quote doesn't say what you said it says?  BlooInBloo   Feb-15-09 12:22 AM   #175 

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