| 98. Basic medical ethics require regulation |
|
as I'm sure the physicians and clinic in this case will find out from the California Medical Board if and when they're identified.
|
| -On Regulating Infertility Treatments: BITE ME |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:11 PM |
#0 |
 -
As long as you have some foreseeable means of supporting the children and can pay for the treatments |
slackmaster |
Jan-31-09 03:14 PM |
#1 |
 -
And Won't Put 14 Children At Risk |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 03:27 PM |
#12 |
 -
If your only concern is RISK, then do you think anyone with a RISKY career |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:55 PM |
#37 |
| -
Show Me The Odds |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 04:05 PM |
#41 |
| -
So you want to regulate family size too? |
WolverineDG |
Jan-31-09 04:17 PM |
#43 |
| -
Where Did I Say That? Nowhere |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 04:18 PM |
#44 |
| -
You mentioned the risk of abuse & neglect going up |
WolverineDG |
Jan-31-09 05:11 PM |
#69 |
| -
Yup. I Sure Did |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 05:17 PM |
#71 |
| -
Hrm- |
Mother Of Four |
Jan-31-09 11:02 PM |
#130 |
| -
Who decides this though? If my hubby and I work at Taco Bell, should we not be allowed? nt |
recoveringrepublican |
Jan-31-09 07:05 PM |
#87 |
| -
I want you and your husband to decide |
slackmaster |
Feb-01-09 01:53 PM |
#157 |
| -
How much would you suggest? |
rug |
Jan-31-09 08:15 PM |
#100 |
| -
How much what? |
slackmaster |
Feb-01-09 01:52 PM |
#156 |
| -
It's been a long time since "crack whores" have been featured in a DU post |
leftstreet |
Jan-31-09 03:14 PM |
#2 |
| -
At one point in the journey, we actually ran into the sister of one. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:18 PM |
#3 |
| -
Wow That's reads like a Jacques Cousteau experience n/t |
leftstreet |
Jan-31-09 03:22 PM |
#8 |
| -
Well who the fuck are YOU to judge? |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 03:31 PM |
#16 |
| -
Who is judging? I was being jealous as all hell. nt |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:35 PM |
#21 |
| -
Are you serious? What is the condition of those children? |
lizzy |
Jan-31-09 04:43 PM |
#54 |
| -
I was being jealous of her ability to get pregnant with zero effort. |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 02:38 AM |
#134 |
| -
Having an office policy that only 3 embryos be implanted at a time seems reasonable though. |
uppityperson |
Jan-31-09 03:19 PM |
#4 |
| -
Office policies are created because of success rates. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:25 PM |
#10 |
| -
I am glad you have children now. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Jan-31-09 03:19 PM |
#5 |
| -
So am I. nt |
DevonRex |
Jan-31-09 03:23 PM |
#9 |
| -
Thank you -- my husband is on the floor playing with them at the moment. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:45 PM |
#30 |
| -
So you think it's ethical for drs to implant 8 embryos at once? |
Kittycat |
Jan-31-09 03:20 PM |
#6 |
| -
We once transferred six. Long story. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:29 PM |
#14 |
| -
"if she can afford it" |
hfojvt |
Feb-01-09 02:27 PM |
#160 |
| -
Not trying to be crass about this. |
Kittycat |
Feb-01-09 04:08 PM |
#164 |
| -
Do you think it's legal for doctors to make that choice for their patients? |
wickerwoman |
Jan-31-09 07:14 PM |
#88 |
| -
No one is telling her how many she can have. |
Kittycat |
Feb-01-09 04:06 PM |
#163 |
| -
To knowingly put the lives of 8 children at risk by implanting that many at once |
DevonRex |
Jan-31-09 03:21 PM |
#7 |
| -
oh, good grief. |
enlightenment |
Jan-31-09 03:26 PM |
#11 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-31-09 03:34 PM |
#19 |
| -
Thank you. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:37 PM |
#22 |
| -
You got it! I've been through the same hell. We're on a break now. |
Veganistan |
Jan-31-09 03:45 PM |
#31 |
| -
My first one was a nightmare; the second was better. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:52 PM |
#35 |
| -
I tend to agree |
ima_sinnic |
Jan-31-09 05:23 PM |
#75 |
| -
And none of what you say applies when the woman ALREADY HAS 6 CHILDREN |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 03:29 PM |
#13 |
| -
Because NO ONE has the right to tell someone else YES or NO |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:34 PM |
#20 |
| -
When public funds are being used for infertility treatments, it becomes everyone's business |
slackmaster |
Jan-31-09 03:38 PM |
#23 |
| -
Ah, Viagra is okay, birth control is okay, but infertility treatments -- |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:42 PM |
#27 |
| -
RIF |
slackmaster |
Jan-31-09 03:44 PM |
#29 |
| -
Slackmaster, Viagra is paid for with public funds right now. |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:50 PM |
#34 |
| -
I'm opposed to the use of public funds to pay for elective drugs, surgery, etc. |
slackmaster |
Jan-31-09 03:52 PM |
#36 |
| -
Public funds being used? Where, exactly, is the info to back that up? |
Shakespeare |
Feb-01-09 11:41 AM |
#147 |
| -
So the world's doing real well with almost 7 billion people, isn't it? |
MedleyMisty |
Jan-31-09 03:41 PM |
#26 |
| -
Yes they do. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 03:44 PM |
#28 |
| -
Thank you. |
juno jones |
Jan-31-09 06:59 PM |
#86 |
| -
that's one of the main reasons the world is so screwed up today.... |
mike_c |
Jan-31-09 03:46 PM |
#32 |
| -
We Don't Have to Regulate the Right to Reproduce |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 04:03 PM |
#40 |
| -
The OP's dismissal of adoption really got to me. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 04:23 PM |
#45 |
| -
You know what? Some here are acting as if there is a busload |
lizzy |
Jan-31-09 04:35 PM |
#49 |
| -
I never said adoption was easy. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 04:42 PM |
#52 |
| -
Maybe |
rebecca_herman |
Jan-31-09 04:48 PM |
#57 |
| -
Too bad all potential parents aren't scrutinized like adoptive ones are. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 05:04 PM |
#62 |
| -
So you think someone shouldn't be allowed to have kids... |
rebecca_herman |
Jan-31-09 05:07 PM |
#65 |
| -
Not for being overweight or previously suffering from depression, no. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 05:10 PM |
#67 |
| -
It happens though |
rebecca_herman |
Jan-31-09 05:21 PM |
#73 |
| -
It happens in custody battles too. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 05:39 PM |
#81 |
| -
Jesus, you just sound sicker and sicker every day. |
spoony |
Feb-01-09 05:28 PM |
#168 |
| -
If I had to choose between laying in bed 5 months constantly puking... |
Runcible Spoon |
Jan-31-09 08:19 PM |
#102 |
| -
Not true.... PLENTY of kids need homes.... its perfect infants |
Lisa0825 |
Jan-31-09 04:46 PM |
#56 |
| -
Under 4 aren't easily available for adoption. |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 03:00 AM |
#136 |
| -
Because most of them are not perfect little white babies. |
alarimer |
Jan-31-09 05:05 PM |
#63 |
| -
Severe and special problems require a lot of money and time. |
lizzy |
Jan-31-09 05:10 PM |
#68 |
| -
Indeed |
rebecca_herman |
Jan-31-09 05:34 PM |
#80 |
| -
So will 14 healthy kids....IF they end up healthy. nt |
Critters2 |
Jan-31-09 10:46 PM |
#123 |
| -
My wife and i have been looking at adoption for a while |
vadawg |
Jan-31-09 07:33 PM |
#92 |
| -
People wait years to adopt a child who meets their specifications. |
Critters2 |
Jan-31-09 10:45 PM |
#121 |
| -
There aren't an adundance of healthy newborns available for adoption |
cherish44 |
Feb-01-09 04:59 AM |
#139 |
| -
Disappointing, But Again, I Try To Understand |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 04:42 PM |
#53 |
| -
yes, I noticed that too (nt) |
ima_sinnic |
Jan-31-09 05:28 PM |
#77 |
| -
Dismissal of adoption -- you don't have a clue, do you? |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 02:54 AM |
#135 |
| -
That's not what you said in the OP. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 11:23 AM |
#145 |
| -
I tried to summarize EIGHT YEARS of trying to have a child, |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 04:44 PM |
#167 |
| -
"Population, Evolution and Birth Control" by Garrett Hardin was one of the first books |
Sal Minella |
Jan-31-09 04:45 PM |
#55 |
| -
it is not "personal" when 14 OTHER human beings are involved |
ima_sinnic |
Jan-31-09 05:22 PM |
#74 |
| -
The doctor has every right to refuse to be involved if the situation is dangerous or unethical. |
LeftyMom |
Jan-31-09 10:02 PM |
#118 |
| -
We sure as hell do. It's everyone's business because our resources are FINITE |
Lorien |
Feb-01-09 10:45 AM |
#142 |
| -
With all due respect, if I'm being asked to pay the bills, it becomes my business. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Feb-01-09 01:23 PM |
#155 |
| -
I'd say that's not true. |
spoony |
Feb-01-09 05:31 PM |
#169 |
| -
That's the way that all indemnity (insurance) works. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Feb-01-09 09:48 PM |
#173 |
| -
The message you just sent |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 07:51 PM |
#94 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-31-09 08:48 PM |
#104 |
| -
So you approve of Ida's choice |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 08:57 PM |
#107 |
| -
Why does it have to be statutory rape? |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:08 PM |
#110 |
| -
Please see post 104. (nt) |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 10:32 PM |
#119 |
| -
I can't. It was removed. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 10:40 PM |
#120 |
| -
Exactly. It was your post. (nt) |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 10:48 PM |
#124 |
| -
Most likely because you whined about it to the mods. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 10:50 PM |
#125 |
| -
Actually, I wasn't the one who reported it. |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 10:54 PM |
#126 |
| -
So calling women crack whores is okay to you then? |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 11:00 PM |
#129 |
| -
Speaking of "approve" . Do you approve of the OP's reference to "crack whores"? |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:35 PM |
#113 |
| -
I imagine she totally understands. I think you're not hearing what |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-31-09 08:00 PM |
#97 |
| -
Yeah, everyone should have as many children as they want |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 08:50 PM |
#105 |
| -
The point is that YOU aren't impowered to decide what's best |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-31-09 08:55 PM |
#106 |
| -
The woman is currently demanding that TV personalities give her $2 million |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:11 PM |
#111 |
| -
That very well might be true |
JerseygirlCT |
Feb-01-09 12:07 PM |
#150 |
| -
And there are plenty of therapists offices full of people brought up by them |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 10:15 PM |
#177 |
| -
You might be. But as I said, we don't decide to remove children |
JerseygirlCT |
Feb-02-09 02:40 PM |
#179 |
| -
Take your 'regulate it MORE' and stuff it. |
varelse |
Jan-31-09 03:30 PM |
#15 |
| -
You are correct. I was trying to make a point about how the STUPID |
IdaBriggs |
Jan-31-09 03:38 PM |
#24 |
| -
They're not necessarily stupid (some of these people are obviously educated and fairly bright) |
varelse |
Jan-31-09 03:55 PM |
#38 |
| -
I think that was intended as an example - to illustrate the stupidity of those here who think they |
Veganistan |
Jan-31-09 03:38 PM |
#25 |
| -
Correct. You Do Not Have to Justify Your Irrational Desire To Procreate |
NashVegas |
Jan-31-09 03:32 PM |
#17 |
| -
You can ASK for 8 Embryos to be implanted but it should be illegal for any doctor to do so. |
KittyWampus |
Jan-31-09 03:32 PM |
#18 |
| -
"And the fact there is one crazy woman out there who has 14 now is not really relevant to me" |
Lex |
Jan-31-09 03:47 PM |
#33 |
| -
Just one more example of putting selfish wants ahead of what society needs. |
alarimer |
Jan-31-09 05:07 PM |
#64 |
| -
Not "wants," RIGHTS. |
spoony |
Feb-01-09 05:36 PM |
#170 |
| -
hear, hear Lex |
lcdnumber6 |
Jan-31-09 07:21 PM |
#90 |
| -
The smallest weighs 1-1/2 pounds. The largest weighs 3-1/4 pounds. |
DevonRex |
Jan-31-09 03:58 PM |
#39 |
| -
Hear hear! |
WolverineDG |
Jan-31-09 04:15 PM |
#42 |
| -
I believe it is unehtical AND immoral for fertile women to have fertility treatments |
LostinVA |
Jan-31-09 04:28 PM |
#46 |
| -
Well, the mother who gave birth to 8 was infertile. |
lizzy |
Jan-31-09 04:33 PM |
#48 |
| -
The doctors need to be regulated. |
ColbertWatcher |
Jan-31-09 04:32 PM |
#47 |
| -
You are obviously a sane person. |
Vinca |
Jan-31-09 04:39 PM |
#50 |
| -
Let's call her mental state what it really is |
slackmaster |
Jan-31-09 04:42 PM |
#51 |
| -
Feh, There's a group here that thinks no one should be allowed to reproduce, ever. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 04:56 PM |
#58 |
| -
"a group here that thinks no one should be allowed to reproduce, ever" |
gristy |
Jan-31-09 04:58 PM |
#59 |
| -
Yeah. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 05:00 PM |
#60 |
| -
waiting . . . |
ima_sinnic |
Jan-31-09 05:33 PM |
#79 |
| -
Here's something to do while you wait. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 05:41 PM |
#82 |
| -
gee, you mean, you mean ... you couldn't come up with a link? who woulda guessed? |
ima_sinnic |
Jan-31-09 05:53 PM |
#85 |
| -
You're right. They're only advocating "voluntary" human extinction. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 08:17 PM |
#101 |
| -
OT, but don't you think that if they were around today, they'd all be wearing |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-31-09 08:57 PM |
#109 |
| -
They need to be regulated like any other treatment. |
alarimer |
Jan-31-09 05:00 PM |
#61 |
| -
Oh baloney. People have to wait years to adopt. |
lizzy |
Jan-31-09 05:09 PM |
#66 |
| -
Adoption can be damn near impossible if you're not rich |
Veganistan |
Jan-31-09 05:29 PM |
#78 |
| -
I've said it before but it obviously bears repeating: |
kestrel91316 |
Jan-31-09 05:12 PM |
#70 |
| -
I thought this was about a woman with some sort of mental illness. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 05:26 PM |
#76 |
| -
Meanwhile, the OP makes a reference to "crack whores" and that's hunky dory with you |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:39 PM |
#114 |
| -
No, I never said I agreed with all the phrasing in the OP. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 09:52 PM |
#116 |
| -
I agree with you about the ethical implications and questioning the doctor's judgment. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:56 PM |
#117 |
| -
You don't believe in crack whores? Or are you unaware of the term? |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 03:12 AM |
#137 |
| -
Ida, your bitterness toward such women is quite clear. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 11:21 AM |
#144 |
| -
Well, to answer that last question of yours, in this particular case |
kestrel91316 |
Feb-01-09 10:39 AM |
#141 |
| -
and having the means to support and care for the children must be consideration as well. |
BrklynLiberal |
Feb-01-09 02:18 PM |
#159 |
| -
See, I'm not comfortable with goverment dictating to people when to have or not have children. |
Warren DeMontague |
Feb-01-09 03:47 PM |
#162 |
| -
Well, I am very very, very very very - very very happy that |
ferrous wheel |
Jan-31-09 05:18 PM |
#72 |
| -
You know what? I can sympathize with the OP's feelings, but here's what I think: |
Berry Cool |
Jan-31-09 05:49 PM |
#83 |
| -
There will be a time in the not-so-distant future |
Canuckistanian |
Jan-31-09 05:52 PM |
#84 |
| -
Very, very interesting thought |
Number23 |
Jan-31-09 07:23 PM |
#91 |
| -
You GO, IdaBriggs! lol I agree with every word you've said. |
Number23 |
Jan-31-09 07:20 PM |
#89 |
| -
A fucking men |
ismnotwasm |
Jan-31-09 07:50 PM |
#93 |
| -
"poor people shouldn't breed," |
noamnety |
Jan-31-09 07:59 PM |
#96 |
| -
"minding my own business and tending to the business of my own uterus" |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-31-09 08:40 PM |
#103 |
| -
I find your response interesting |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 09:33 PM |
#112 |
| -
Well |
ismnotwasm |
Feb-01-09 10:49 AM |
#143 |
| -
I appreciate your experience |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 11:31 AM |
#146 |
| -
Oh, Ok, I get your point |
ismnotwasm |
Feb-01-09 03:00 PM |
#161 |
| -
Thanks for getting the point, and understanding the challenges. |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 04:26 PM |
#165 |
| -
I get that. And I'm sure that octuplet preemies would be equally disturbing in their own way. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 09:50 PM |
#174 |
| -
She's already "bred" six times! |
AnnieBW |
Jan-31-09 09:45 PM |
#115 |
| -
If I understand things correctly, these were leftover frozen embryos from |
IdaBriggs |
Feb-01-09 03:23 AM |
#138 |
| -
I see from another post that you are a nurse. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 10:45 PM |
#122 |
| -
Especially implanting 8 when the ethcial medical limit is 2 or 3?? |
BrklynLiberal |
Feb-01-09 02:16 PM |
#158 |
| -
First of all |
ismnotwasm |
Feb-01-09 10:10 PM |
#176 |
| -
Amen. And I'm sorry for all your pain, and happy for the joyful |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-31-09 07:56 PM |
#95 |
| -
Basic medical ethics require regulation |
depakid |
Jan-31-09 08:02 PM |
#98 |
| -
selfish, selfish. |
lcdnumber6 |
Jan-31-09 08:08 PM |
#99 |
| -
You're obviously missing the point entirely of the uproar over the octuplet mom. |
AZBlue |
Jan-31-09 08:57 PM |
#108 |
| -
You're defending as a well-made decision octomom's 14 kids? Seriously? |
BlooInBloo |
Jan-31-09 10:57 PM |
#127 |
| -
So I've learned from some people on this thread: |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-31-09 10:59 PM |
#128 |
| -
Pretty much everything else is regulated |
Mz Pip |
Jan-31-09 11:10 PM |
#131 |
| -
People shouldn't have children they can't afford to take care of and feed. |
earth mom |
Jan-31-09 11:15 PM |
#132 |
| -
Well put! |
hamsterjill |
Feb-02-09 03:26 PM |
#180 |
| -
Ida it is not you who is an ethical problem... the ethics of this delivery |
nadinbrzezinski |
Jan-31-09 11:22 PM |
#133 |
| -
As medicine improves, the state will have to stop funding most infertility treatment, I suspect |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Feb-01-09 06:27 AM |
#140 |
| -
Show me, please, where the state funds infertility treatments. |
Shakespeare |
Feb-01-09 11:58 AM |
#149 |
| -
Here, in the UK. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Feb-01-09 05:40 PM |
#171 |
| -
NO public funding in the US, and it's even spotty in the UK. |
Shakespeare |
Feb-01-09 05:47 PM |
#172 |
| -
Thanks, Ida. Folks are acting as if we have an epidemic of octuplet births going on. |
Shakespeare |
Feb-01-09 11:55 AM |
#148 |
| -
Thanks for saying what you said, Shakespeare. |
Cerridwen |
Feb-01-09 12:33 PM |
#153 |
| -
apples and oranges , Ida |
JitterbugPerfume |
Feb-01-09 12:14 PM |
#151 |
| -
Not really, JP. People are using what is a highly unusual occurrence to argue for regulating or... |
Shakespeare |
Feb-01-09 12:27 PM |
#152 |
| -
I really do hope |
JitterbugPerfume |
Feb-01-09 12:52 PM |
#154 |
| -
Hardly. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-01-09 09:55 PM |
#175 |
| -
Hardly what? |
Shakespeare |
Feb-02-09 09:14 AM |
#178 |
| -
personally, i have no idea why anyone would want to go through all that effort/expense to have kids. |
dysfunctional press |
Feb-01-09 04:37 PM |
#166 |
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