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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. When we commit to universal health care, for example...
...it damned well is our business. I have to agree about the respect part, but ought the choice to have a dozen kids be absolutely free? Don't the rest of us get even a tiny bit of say in the matter?
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  -Is It Really Legal/Ethical For Someone To Have IVF If They Already Have 6 Kids? KittyWampus  Jan-30-09 08:45 AM   #0 
  - Sounds to me like this woman was just intent on being a SuperBreeder, for  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 08:49 AM   #1 
  - If we're going to champion "reproductive choice"  nichomachus   Jan-30-09 08:55 AM   #2 
  - When we commit to universal health care, for example...  Orsino   Jan-30-09 09:29 AM   #14 
  - "Don't the rest of us get even a tiny bit of say in the matter?"  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 09:32 AM   #15 
  - There's an outbreak of that "Anti-Her Choice" at DU since  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 09:35 AM   #16 
  - I thought "Pro-Choice" was a two-way street. Apparently it's not. n/t  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 09:37 AM   #18 
  - ProChoice Also Means Criticism Free?  ProfessorGAC   Jan-30-09 09:47 AM   #28 
     - I agree--I am free to criticize women who have multiple abortions instead  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 09:59 AM   #36 
        - Absolutely (eom)  ProfessorGAC   Jan-30-09 10:04 AM   #37 
        - I agree 100%. But we're arguing someone's notion that WE should "have a say in the matter". n/t  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 10:32 AM   #57 
           - I'm Not and I Don't Think TG is Either  ProfessorGAC   Jan-30-09 11:12 AM   #71 
              - I know that wasn't TG's point. Further upthread it was suggested that  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 11:53 AM   #84 
  - Maybe the analogy to abortion is faulty  Bill McBlueState   Jan-30-09 09:44 AM   #26 
  - The choice to abort? Fine by me.  Orsino   Jan-30-09 09:36 AM   #17 
     - So "Pro-Choice" refers only to the choice to abort, and not the other way around.  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 09:39 AM   #20 
     - this choice isn't made in a vacuum  Bill McBlueState   Jan-30-09 09:42 AM   #23 
     - We could argue about this all day long, from any number of different tacks.  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 09:45 AM   #27 
     - Not to be snarky  michreject   Jan-30-09 09:49 AM   #29 
     - if so  Bill McBlueState   Jan-30-09 09:55 AM   #31 
        - Point is  michreject   Jan-30-09 10:15 AM   #41 
        - Got any proof to back up that assertion?  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 10:20 AM   #48 
     - So what is your opinion of federal funding for abortions?  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 10:37 AM   #60 
     - you seem to be taking the position  Bill McBlueState   Jan-30-09 11:09 AM   #70 
        - No, not really.  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 11:57 AM   #85 
     - What's the limit then? It's okay to have one kid you can't afford but not ____!  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-30-09 11:09 AM   #69 
     - The same thing that happened to Hummers and CEO severance packages.  Orsino   Jan-30-09 09:44 AM   #25 
     - It seems so, doesn't it? People with lots of kids  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 10:18 AM   #43 
     - I admit it!  hamsterjill   Jan-30-09 10:40 AM   #62 
     - Does that woman have the right to have all of her limbs surgically removed?  arcadian   Jan-30-09 11:34 AM   #75 
     - What's your opinion of federal funding for abortions?  cherokeeprogressive   Jan-30-09 10:33 AM   #58 
        - I'm okay with it.  Orsino   Jan-30-09 02:28 PM   #97 
  - Two different issues  nichomachus   Jan-30-09 09:55 AM   #33 
  - Yes. Thank you.  Orsino   Jan-30-09 12:12 PM   #89 
  - This is the problem  Texasgal   Jan-30-09 11:44 AM   #82 
     - Even an opinion on the number of kids we ought to subsidize in various ways?  Orsino   Jan-30-09 12:10 PM   #88 
  - it is my reproductive choice to have enough kids to form my own militia  yurbud   Jan-30-09 12:23 PM   #92 
  - I completely agree  dddem   Jan-30-09 02:43 PM   #99 
  - It is no doubt legal, but you have to wonder about the  LibDemAlways   Jan-30-09 09:01 AM   #3 
  - I think a woman should be able to have as many kids as she wants  proud2Blib   Jan-30-09 09:04 AM   #4 
  - I agree. Although I personally believe this is insanity, it is her CHOICE.  OmmmSweetOmmm   Jan-30-09 09:37 AM   #19 
  - Yes it would definitely NOT be my choice  proud2Blib   Jan-30-09 10:05 AM   #38 
  - One can support the woman's right to have all the children she wants  Bill McBlueState   Jan-30-09 09:40 AM   #21 
  - Regardless of what we may see as right, the bottom line it is none of our business.  elocs   Jan-30-09 09:42 AM   #22 
  - Great post  proud2Blib   Jan-30-09 10:06 AM   #39 
  - Bingo. nt  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 10:22 AM   #50 
  - Terrific post And a good warning. nt  JerseygirlCT   Jan-30-09 08:41 PM   #109 
  - Bear in mind that probably none of these 8 children will be normal.  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 10:16 AM   #42 
     - You sound like a Republican. nt  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 10:27 AM   #53 
     - No--I sound like someone with common sense.  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 10:28 AM   #54 
        - Nope, a Republican who doesn't want a "dime of charity"  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 11:37 AM   #76 
           - Srsly, you're starting to sound like a wack-job.  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 11:39 AM   #78 
     - And if you penalize the mother the kids will suffer  proud2Blib   Jan-30-09 10:32 AM   #56 
        - I have a suspicion that this family might be doing this for very shameful reasons.  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 10:35 AM   #59 
           - Unfortunately, I have to agree with you...  colinmom71   Jan-30-09 12:07 PM   #87 
  - This is such a disturbing story -  marylanddem   Jan-30-09 09:05 AM   #5 
  - Ethical is arguable, legal isn't. . . . . .n/t  annabanana   Jan-30-09 09:05 AM   #6 
  - IVF and fertility drugs are different  Warpy   Jan-30-09 09:09 AM   #7 
  - Is it possible her parents are using her as a kind of breeding machine?  marylanddem   Jan-30-09 09:11 AM   #8 
  - I thought about that, as soon as "Grampa" announced that he might  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 09:15 AM   #10 
     - Funny how people with no compassion describe their sickness as "normality."  Lilith Velkor   Jan-30-09 01:32 PM   #95 
  - I read this morning that she's married...  uberblonde   Jan-30-09 09:12 AM   #9 
  - I thought it was her father that was said to be going to Iraq...  marylanddem   Jan-30-09 09:15 AM   #11 
  - No--GRAMPA is the one going to Iraq.  TwilightGardener   Jan-30-09 09:16 AM   #12 
  - No, I believe she is single and her father is a contractor in Iraq.  Bunny   Jan-30-09 09:16 AM   #13 
     - It's bad medicine in the extreme  cherish44   Jan-30-09 09:43 AM   #24 
  - What law is being questioned? nt  michreject   Jan-30-09 09:52 AM   #30 
  - Laws regarding IVF. The procedure and doctors performing it. Are there any standards involved?  KittyWampus   Jan-30-09 10:54 AM   #63 
     - Absolutely there are standards.  mainer   Jan-30-09 11:58 AM   #86 
     - Not that I'm aware of  michreject   Jan-30-09 04:34 PM   #102 
  - It's her body... that should be all I need to say...  JCMach1   Jan-30-09 09:55 AM   #32 
  - If it were only her body involved, then there would be no ethical concern here  customerserviceguy   Jan-30-09 10:18 AM   #44 
  - This story is fucked up....  OhioChick   Jan-30-09 09:58 AM   #34 
  - Is IVF moral at all in a world overflowing with starving orphans?  Greyhound   Jan-30-09 09:59 AM   #35 
  - It is considered a human right  customerserviceguy   Jan-30-09 10:20 AM   #47 
  - It is, but is it moral to leave millions to suffer horrible, painful, lingering deaths  Greyhound   Jan-30-09 10:22 AM   #52 
     - I certainly do not defend the decision of any that were involved  customerserviceguy   Jan-30-09 08:38 PM   #108 
  - Is any reproduction at all moral in a world overflowing with starving orphans?  ogneopasno   Jan-30-09 10:22 AM   #51 
     - Legitimate question, but not for this thread. n/t  Greyhound   Jan-30-09 11:02 AM   #67 
  - Legal, probably- ethical, No  depakid   Jan-30-09 10:10 AM   #40 
  - It seems this women received treatment outside of the norm. At least according to the experts...  LynneSin   Jan-30-09 10:19 AM   #45 
  - Thank you so much for posting this. It answered all my questions. It's definitely unethical  KittyWampus   Jan-30-09 10:59 AM   #64 
  - Legal yes, ethical HELL NO!  slackmaster   Jan-30-09 10:19 AM   #46 
  - Yes, yes and yes to your questions. Because I'm pro-choice.  ogneopasno   Jan-30-09 10:21 AM   #49 
  - good, then your tax dollars can pay for these 8 frankenbabies' care  ima_sinnic   Jan-30-09 10:37 AM   #61 
  - That's the same argument republicans have been making about poor people in the projects.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-30-09 11:13 AM   #72 
  - that is not a "republican" idea. nobody should have even one child they cannot afford  ima_sinnic   Jan-30-09 11:18 AM   #73 
     - What if they can afford it at the time but later things go wrong?  treestar   Jan-30-09 11:39 AM   #77 
     - that is another thing entirely. I'm talking about people who knowingly  ima_sinnic   Jan-30-09 12:23 PM   #93 
        - But how could we stop them? Making a law to that effect would  treestar   Jan-30-09 04:31 PM   #100 
     - The idea that you shouldn't have your taxes go to help them is a republican idea.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-30-09 04:33 PM   #101 
  - "frankenbabies"??? "sideshow freaks" ??? Wow, the humanity, the  DemBones DemBones   Jan-30-09 11:44 AM   #81 
     - why don't you run to wherever she is and volunteer your care 24/7?  ima_sinnic   Jan-30-09 12:21 PM   #91 
  - "pro choice" doesn't mean any and all forms of parenting & reproduction goes  Kashka-Kat   Jan-30-09 04:58 PM   #106 
     - We have? When was that? I guessed I missed it.  ogneopasno   Jan-30-09 05:27 PM   #107 
  - It's OK for her to have all those kids & it's OK for them to starve to death if she can't feed them  FarCenter   Jan-30-09 10:29 AM   #55 
  - You're getting into the ethics of population control which is a difficult subject  Hippo_Tron   Jan-30-09 10:59 AM   #65 
  - it's interesting the subject centers so much around the Mother and not the doctor or clinic  KittyWampus   Jan-30-09 11:04 AM   #68 
  - Having 8 more children with 6 children at home calls for an investigation  kiranon   Jan-30-09 11:02 AM   #66 
  - Legal, yes; ethical, your call  Prophet 451   Jan-30-09 11:30 AM   #74 
  - Legal only because US law on IVF is fucking stupid  Spider Jerusalem   Jan-30-09 11:40 AM   #79 
  - To be fair, it is highly unlikely that this octuplet birth was obtained through IVF...  colinmom71   Jan-30-09 12:51 PM   #94 
  - I don't know about the legality  NeedleCast   Jan-30-09 11:42 AM   #80 
  - This whole story sounds fishy.  mainer   Jan-30-09 11:46 AM   #83 
  - it's environmental rape  stuntcat   Jan-30-09 12:14 PM   #90 
  - I feel like there is much  4 t 4   Jan-30-09 01:38 PM   #96 
  - It's preposterous--but who am I to judge?  librechik   Jan-30-09 02:31 PM   #98 
  - we all make judgements, every day - there is this concept called "genetic abuse" which applies to  Kashka-Kat   Jan-30-09 04:51 PM   #104 
  - Sounds like she has a hoarding problem to me.  ShadesOfGrey   Jan-30-09 04:50 PM   #103 
  - YES I was about to say that- wheres the psychological screening?  Kashka-Kat   Jan-30-09 04:51 PM   #105 
  - Fourteen or eighteen children is not a 'FAMILY'. It is a HERD.  bertman   Jan-30-09 08:49 PM   #110 
  - Legal yes...unethical, maybe...it's still her body and her choice. n/t  cynatnite   Jan-30-09 08:51 PM   #111 
 

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