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Reply #5: The Means cannot achieve any future condition (End) that does not include the Means. [View All]

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Means cannot achieve any future condition (End) that does not include the Means.
Period.
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  -The End justifies the Means .... re-re-re-revisited TahitiNut  Jan-05-09 06:53 PM   #0 
  - My apologies, I am beyond intellectual argument. I can only scream,  scarletwoman   Jan-05-09 07:06 PM   #1 
  - To the degree I did a poor job (and I did) of developing the thoughts in my post ...  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 07:18 PM   #4 
  - That's such a ridiculous argument  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:42 PM   #14 
     - That is not why we justified the killing at the time.  annabanana   Jan-05-09 09:09 PM   #18 
     - Okay  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 11:58 PM   #21 
     - Speaking of ridiculous arguments...  greyhound1966   Jan-06-09 01:09 AM   #27 
  - And if we or Israel is nuked after trying peace and nonviolence, what will be said?  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:12 PM   #2 
  - The Means cannot achieve any future condition (End) that does not include the Means.  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 07:21 PM   #5 
  - But that's the point by the saying, isn't it? Sometimes those means that are included  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:24 PM   #7 
     - And how is that World Peace thingy working out for you?  Bandit   Jan-06-09 08:09 AM   #37 
  - When Israel actually tries "peace and nonviolence", get back to me. (nt)  scarletwoman   Jan-05-09 07:28 PM   #8 
     - They wouldn't exist today if they tried peace and nonviolence, it's been war from the start and  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:33 PM   #9 
        - An argument that depends on conjecture and supposition is a weak one, at best.  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 07:36 PM   #11 
        - What means that he employed are included in the ends, and what ends are those?  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:38 PM   #12 
        - It isn't a weak argument. It's called national defense.  Joe Fields   Jan-06-09 01:20 AM   #31 
        - Your argument doesn't work. It presupposes that Israel *should* exist -- I don't assume that.  scarletwoman   Jan-05-09 07:41 PM   #13 
           - I totally agree, I don't think it should either, but that's not my argument.  cbc5g   Jan-05-09 07:42 PM   #15 
           - The issue of Israel's right to exist has already been settled.  Joe Fields   Jan-06-09 01:22 AM   #32 
           - And what will happen once Israel no longer exists?  CTyankee   Jan-06-09 01:39 PM   #40 
  - I remember as a child  SheilaT   Jan-05-09 07:18 PM   #3 
  - It does seem that either people get it instinctively or they don't. nt  glitch   Jan-06-09 06:32 AM   #36 
  - The notion of double effect is also used to justify horrible actions.  rug   Jan-05-09 07:23 PM   #6 
  - It is not argued from a consequentialist perspective, however.  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 07:33 PM   #10 
  - "Sacrificing a few to (perhaps) save many." K&R  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jan-05-09 08:31 PM   #16 
  - Indeed.  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 08:54 PM   #17 
  - More recs for this thoughtful post.!  annabanana   Jan-05-09 09:14 PM   #19 
  - Thanks, luv! (I wish I were more articulate.)  TahitiNut   Jan-05-09 10:43 PM   #20 
  - I'm not gonna read all that.....can you tell it to me in "an elevator moment"?  Mind_your_head   Jan-06-09 12:01 AM   #22 
  - "We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  TahitiNut   Jan-06-09 12:29 AM   #24 
  - I call this insanity.  kentuck   Jan-06-09 12:16 AM   #23 
  - I've found that people who already view their acts by their inherent morality ...  TahitiNut   Jan-06-09 12:37 AM   #25 
     - Amen  kentuck   Jan-06-09 12:42 AM   #26 
     - I am surprised Kentuck..  Mind_your_head   Jan-06-09 01:18 AM   #30 
     - .  Mind_your_head   Jan-06-09 01:14 AM   #29 
  - There is no "end" and there are no "means"... things are as they are....n/t  MazeRat7   Jan-06-09 01:11 AM   #28 
  - your logic is skewed.  Joe Fields   Jan-06-09 01:31 AM   #33 
  - My simpler formulation:  snot   Jan-06-09 01:40 AM   #34 
  - Kicked, Recommended, and Bookmarked for later. nt  blackops   Jan-06-09 02:01 AM   #35 
  - "... The means and methods used to achieve a certain end in the course of time themselves  struggle4progress   Jan-06-09 01:29 PM   #38 
  - so two wrongs DO make a right....  spanone   Jan-06-09 01:31 PM   #39 
  - good post  barbtries   Jan-06-09 05:36 PM   #41 
 

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