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Reply #77: The problem is, larger deficits really aren't an option [View All]

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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. The problem is, larger deficits really aren't an option
In a recession economy, it makes sense to cut taxes and run deficit spending to increase the money supply. Once you're out of the recession, you raise taxes again and pay your bills. The problem is, Bush borrowed money to give the richest Americans tax cuts, twice, in a non-recession economy. So now excessive deficit and debt is killing the economy, which takes the tax cut option off the table unless a commensurate or greater spending cut is made. Tax cuts are what got us into this mess and they aren't going to get us out.

The option proposed by Obama, as I understand it, is to instead restructure the tax code so that the richest Americans, who are categorically undertaxed, are given a tax increase while the poor and middle classes are given a tax cut. While this may not increase the money supply, it does put money in the pockets of those most severely affected by the recession and it does encourage spending. So while it may or may not get us out of the recession any faster, neither do I think it will do more harm.
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  -Thom Hartmann -vs- Paul Krugman pilsner  Dec-31-08 12:19 AM   #0 
  - Those two usually agree but on three issues Thom differs from Paul:  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 12:25 AM   #1 
  - You definately know Hartmann well  pilsner   Dec-31-08 12:34 AM   #2 
  - Yeah he played it smart when it came to the primaries  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 12:37 AM   #4 
  - Krugman said he liked Clinton's healthcare plan better than Obama's. You're making up the rest.  chimpymustgo   Dec-31-08 01:08 AM   #14 
     - I think Krugman was not so much an HRC supporter as an Obama basher.  thecatburgler   Dec-31-08 05:24 PM   #41 
  - Krugman and Hartmann view the economy from different perspectives, if that is what  tsuki   Dec-31-08 02:13 PM   #35 
  - I've only seen Thom lose an argument ONCE.  IanDB1   Dec-31-08 12:37 AM   #3 
  - How funny are some of those Ayn Rand deciples?  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 12:38 AM   #5 
  - I miss Dewey.  IanDB1   Dec-31-08 12:41 AM   #7 
     - Me too :/  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 01:03 AM   #13 
     - You may not be the only one, but you can't prove it by me. Bernie RRRAWWWXXX!!!!  Jim Sagle   Dec-31-08 01:26 AM   #17 
     - I think hes a good guy but  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 01:29 AM   #19 
     - Nope, I skip over Bernie's hour these days  pilsner   Dec-31-08 09:11 PM   #44 
     - Dewey was GREAT! I also miss Hy from Staten Island, another of Sam's regular wingnut callers.  smokey nj   Dec-31-08 04:47 PM   #38 
  - same with Carrie Lucas  pilsner   Dec-31-08 12:39 AM   #6 
  - The lady from Independent Woman's Forum probably carves her flesh after calling Thom. n/t  IanDB1   Dec-31-08 12:44 AM   #8 
  - The point of my post is this-  pilsner   Dec-31-08 12:44 AM   #9 
     - After reading Krugmans last book, he makes it pretty clear  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 12:55 AM   #10 
        - Aren't rates now rock bottom?  pilsner   Dec-31-08 12:59 AM   #11 
           - Yes, but that doesn't appear likely in the near future  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 01:02 AM   #12 
              - Flat tax on FICA earnings  pilsner   Dec-31-08 01:11 AM   #15 
                 - There already is a flat tax on social security  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 01:19 AM   #16 
                    - Sure, there's one rate,  pilsner   Dec-31-08 01:28 AM   #18 
                       - Problem with flat taxes of any kind  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 01:31 AM   #20 
                          - How can flat be regressive?  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 06:52 AM   #23 
                             - They are regressive because of the tax burden  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 11:54 AM   #28 
                                - It depends on how you define "flat"  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 01:07 PM   #31 
  - Great post and you nailed it...I rarely miss "the smartest man in the room"  OwnedByFerrets   Jan-01-09 12:32 AM   #49 
  - What do you think of Ravi Batra?  Postman   Dec-31-08 05:34 AM   #21 
  - Not Only Do I Agree With That. . .  ProfessorGAC   Dec-31-08 08:19 AM   #27 
  - There's really a lot more to the economy than simply taxes  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 06:29 AM   #22 
  - Couldn't you attribute the economy under Carter and the Reagan Recession to...  Postman   Dec-31-08 06:54 AM   #24 
  - I wouldn't  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 07:48 AM   #25 
  - Not at all, at least not directly...  greyhound1966   Dec-31-08 01:53 PM   #34 
     - Nonsense.  Postman   Jan-02-09 06:03 AM   #75 
        - That is almost exactly what I said. The costs of the Pentagon didn't  greyhound1966   Jan-02-09 08:33 AM   #76 
  - You are forgetting the oil shocks  halo experiment   Dec-31-08 11:56 AM   #29 
     - I'm not convinced  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 01:43 PM   #33 
  - This really isnt accurate-  emperor72   Dec-31-08 07:56 AM   #26 
  - This really isn't accurate-  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 12:03 PM   #30 
     - Major, did you live through the 90's?  emperor72   Jan-01-09 12:50 AM   #51 
        - My union card has a date in the 80's on it  MajorChode   Jan-01-09 03:40 AM   #52 
           - It depends on how one interprets the data.  Selatius   Jan-01-09 07:21 PM   #71 
  - Krugman is dead wrong on this  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 01:32 PM   #32 
  - The hypocrisy and double standards of the Libertarians  pilsner   Dec-31-08 03:02 PM   #36 
     - A libertarian is just an anarchist that lacks committment  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 04:56 PM   #39 
  - Dear sweet Jesus, Krugman is a Nobel-class economist and Hartmann is a radio host  ThomWV   Dec-31-08 03:58 PM   #37 
  - Kind of a false dichotomy no?  MajorChode   Dec-31-08 05:07 PM   #40 
  - Well actually he is a well respected researcher, author, and historian.  greyhound1966   Dec-31-08 06:26 PM   #43 
  - The two disiplines have a lot more in common than that  ThomWV   Jan-01-09 08:51 AM   #57 
     - With a degree in computer science, and minors in chemistry and biology,  greyhound1966   Jan-01-09 01:33 PM   #59 
  - Krugman earned his Nobel for his research regarding Free Trade n/t  pilsner   Dec-31-08 09:28 PM   #46 
  - I'm going with Hartmann  Raineyb   Jan-01-09 02:44 PM   #63 
  - Maybe not the guy who said..  girl gone mad   Jan-01-09 03:13 PM   #65 
  - Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Roosevelt raise taxes during an economic downturn?  Hippo_Tron   Dec-31-08 05:48 PM   #42 
  - Krugman, a beacon of reason during the last decades, has been  leftofthedial   Dec-31-08 09:23 PM   #45 
  - Not sure what you've been reading-  depakid   Jan-01-09 12:48 AM   #50 
  - Krugman's blog  pilsner   Dec-31-08 09:37 PM   #47 
  - I certainly hope Krugman supported the 700b bailout.  zlt234   Jan-01-09 04:33 AM   #54 
     - Rep. Peter DeFazio  pilsner   Jan-01-09 08:32 AM   #55 
     - How's that bailout working out?  Raineyb   Jan-01-09 02:48 PM   #64 
  - 12/31 Hartmann show  pilsner   Dec-31-08 11:05 PM   #48 
  - Hartmann is absolutely wrong, and Krugman is absolutely right. Hartmann's 'case' is bull.  zlt234   Jan-01-09 04:23 AM   #53 
  - Here, I'll set the record straight  pilsner   Jan-01-09 08:39 AM   #56 
  - Again, the three "examples" he provides have demonstrable alternative causes.  zlt234   Jan-01-09 02:09 PM   #62 
     - Why the Economy Grows like Crazy Amid High Taxes (on the wealthy)  pilsner   Jan-01-09 06:52 PM   #68 
     - The economy crashed post-Stock Market Crash because the Fed tightened money supply.  Selatius   Jan-02-09 05:13 AM   #74 
  - Every time the wealthy get a rate cut everyone suffers.  Usrename   Jan-01-09 08:53 AM   #58 
     - Have you taken Macroeconomics 101? This is really basic material.  zlt234   Jan-01-09 01:55 PM   #60 
        - I think you are inadvertantly making Hartmann's point  sutz12   Jan-01-09 02:01 PM   #61 
        - You do make my point for me.  Usrename   Jan-01-09 03:46 PM   #66 
           - I am saying we need to give tax cuts to the working poor without raising taxes anywhere else.  zlt234   Jan-01-09 09:21 PM   #72 
              - Do you disagree with these observations?  Usrename   Jan-02-09 04:09 AM   #73 
              - The problem is, larger deficits really aren't an option  MajorChode   Jan-02-09 06:58 PM   #77 
                 - I think this kind of restructuring has to be stimulative.  Usrename   Jan-03-09 08:26 AM   #79 
                    - That's one way to look at it  MajorChode   Jan-03-09 02:33 PM   #80 
                       - You are absolutely correct.  Usrename   Jan-03-09 04:30 PM   #81 
                          - You're correct, but looking at it the wrong way  MajorChode   Jan-03-09 07:30 PM   #82 
                             - the more benefit you receive from that society,  Usrename   Jan-04-09 09:43 AM   #85 
  - Thom Hartmann doesn't have authority to speak on this matter  gravity   Jan-01-09 04:15 PM   #67 
  - What do you mean authority?  pilsner   Jan-01-09 07:02 PM   #69 
  - Let's return to Tax & Spend policies  pilsner   Jan-01-09 07:08 PM   #70 
  - Thom twice tipped his hat to Krugman today  pilsner   Jan-02-09 11:45 PM   #78 
  - Hartmann came way down in my estimation this week with his defense  Peregrine Took   Jan-03-09 08:06 PM   #83 
     - Did you hear the hour with Ray Hanania?  pilsner   Jan-03-09 09:48 PM   #84 
 

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