Waiting For Everyman
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Wed Dec-31-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #85 |
| 146. Agreed. By not having a "dog in this fight" I meant the controversy here on DU. |
|
Edited on Wed Dec-31-08 11:34 PM by Waiting For Everyman
I should've been clearer.
I too see this as a general civil rights issue, which when some are denied, all are threatened... that's exactly why we don't want to pigeon-hole it or be pigeon-holed by it. I see a number of hetero people here taking that position, as I do, (that it's general civil rights rather than a sub-group issue to be labeled and divided over) and being jumped on for it. That doesn't make much sense. I know - the snap attacks are coming from emotion. But it IS counter-productive and pointless, as some are saying. Heteros can't suddenly awaken to some realization and change that reaction to the point we're trying to make. It isn't our doing, it isn't in our hands to change it, is all I'm saying, as are others. The misunderstanding just seems to keep repeating itself, which is frustrating.
Instead of "STFU" or that criticizing Obama is off-limits, I think some are just reaching the point of feeling that no communication is happening and it's a waste of time to keep going around the same tree. So we may as well move on and talk about something else, then, that being the case.
This thread is better though, and that's great to see. This is more like it.
And thanks OP, for your response to me too.
Oh, and... Happy New Year, everyone!
|
| -The mistakes that we as straights are making |
Two Americas |
Dec-30-08 06:13 PM |
#0 |
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You should try to get this published as an OP -- k&r |
LostinVA |
Dec-30-08 07:03 PM |
#1 |
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Seriously, type this up and submit it as an Op-Ed to your local paper. |
Bucky |
Dec-30-08 07:07 PM |
#2 |
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Another great post Two Americas, once again you hit the nail on the head. |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-30-08 07:17 PM |
#3 |
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Hopefully, people will have enough self-honesty to read your post and take it to heart. |
readmoreoften |
Dec-30-08 07:18 PM |
#4 |
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thanks |
Two Americas |
Dec-30-08 10:04 PM |
#9 |
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Ok, you asked for it.... |
yowzayowzayowza |
Dec-31-08 01:39 AM |
#18 |
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your points are well taken |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 11:56 AM |
#59 |
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Again, I only see you emphasising that . . . |
defendandprotect |
Dec-31-08 11:44 PM |
#150 |
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Yes and no. |
yowzayowzayowza |
Jan-01-09 12:21 AM |
#154 |
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First, politics is personal . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jan-01-09 12:39 AM |
#155 |
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On your conclusion on gradualism and general principles we are in agreement. |
yowzayowzayowza |
Jan-01-09 12:57 AM |
#156 |
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Again, the response to Warren came from the world at large . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jan-01-09 01:15 AM |
#157 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-31-08 10:16 AM |
#42 |
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Okay, I'll bite ... |
ColbertWatcher |
Dec-31-08 01:42 PM |
#86 |
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that is a great point |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 02:20 PM |
#93 |
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"do we cave in to fear, or do we go ahead in spite of our fears?" |
ColbertWatcher |
Dec-31-08 05:01 PM |
#124 |
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But, is everyone being accused of saying "get over it" really saying that? |
CTyankee |
Jan-01-09 02:55 PM |
#173 |
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A truly terrific post! |
Zenlitened |
Dec-30-08 07:25 PM |
#5 |
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Two Americas |
maryf |
Dec-30-08 09:00 PM |
#6 |
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What a Breath of Fresh Air! |
Crisco |
Dec-30-08 09:04 PM |
#7 |
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I don't think I've read a better argument for gay marriage anywhere, ever. |
PelosiFan |
Dec-30-08 09:31 PM |
#8 |
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hey thanks PelosiFan |
Two Americas |
Dec-30-08 10:30 PM |
#11 |
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Actually, there is a problem with the accusation of "get over it" where it should NOT be applied. |
CTyankee |
Jan-01-09 02:43 PM |
#170 |
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I agree |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 02:57 PM |
#174 |
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Thanks. You know, it works more than it doesn't, at least I've found it to be the case. |
CTyankee |
Jan-01-09 03:57 PM |
#182 |
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great read |
sundog |
Dec-30-08 10:08 PM |
#10 |
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here is what is odd |
Two Americas |
Dec-30-08 11:38 PM |
#14 |
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exactly. another K&R here (n/t) |
kenzee13 |
Dec-31-08 07:28 AM |
#21 |
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Precisely ! |
AntiFascist |
Dec-31-08 04:20 PM |
#117 |
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Beautiful. |
PeaceNikki |
Dec-30-08 10:45 PM |
#12 |
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K&R 1,000 times |
leftstreet |
Dec-30-08 11:21 PM |
#13 |
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very thought-provoking, about how people frame arguments themselves. excellent. nt |
JoeIsOneOfUs |
Dec-30-08 11:45 PM |
#15 |
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Well done. |
sfexpat2000 |
Dec-30-08 11:50 PM |
#16 |
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K&R, excellent post! |
AntiFascist |
Dec-31-08 12:42 AM |
#17 |
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This is merely the beginning, of being told to let go of issues. |
Progs Rock |
Dec-31-08 03:43 AM |
#19 |
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K&R - you mentioned the point that too many miss |
EstimatedProphet |
Dec-31-08 06:59 AM |
#20 |
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I agree with you. This is an important point. Why should anyone tell someone else to calm down? |
rhett o rick |
Dec-31-08 09:54 AM |
#41 |
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You want to know the REAL mistake YOU are making |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 07:29 AM |
#22 |
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LOL. That's all you got? |
crispini |
Dec-31-08 07:41 AM |
#24 |
  -
You can't build on a foundation of quicksand |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 07:48 AM |
#25 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-31-08 08:19 AM |
#27 |
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It's idealism. I live in the real world. |
crispini |
Dec-31-08 09:41 AM |
#40 |
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We live in a real world, but we should be guided by ideals |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 10:39 AM |
#48 |
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I'm not advocating labels. |
crispini |
Dec-31-08 11:56 AM |
#58 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-31-08 08:21 AM |
#29 |
  -
Nomads by definition don't have a place of their own to shit. |
asthmaticeog |
Dec-31-08 08:24 AM |
#30 |
   -
ha! |
sundog |
Dec-31-08 08:28 AM |
#31 |
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So.... they just shit any and everywhere, huh? |
PeaceNikki |
Dec-31-08 09:10 AM |
#35 |
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Evidently. |
asthmaticeog |
Dec-31-08 09:26 AM |
#38 |
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You want to see shitting by people thinking they are shitting rainbows |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 03:22 PM |
#108 |
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This seems like a bit of Rovian projection on your part, no? |
Zenlitened |
Dec-31-08 04:32 PM |
#119 |
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You see what you want to see, rather than what is |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 06:08 PM |
#131 |
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Projection. See also... |
Zenlitened |
Jan-01-09 11:17 AM |
#160 |
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We should call him Johnny Crappleseed. |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-31-08 10:34 AM |
#45 |
  -
!!! |
asthmaticeog |
Dec-31-08 11:05 AM |
#51 |
  -
.... |
Lorien |
Dec-31-08 02:53 PM |
#98 |
  -
Yeah you should go visit that thread |
nomad1776 |
Dec-31-08 03:20 PM |
#106 |
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That's truly one of the most idiotic responses I have ever seen on DU |
EstimatedProphet |
Dec-31-08 09:15 AM |
#37 |
  -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-31-08 01:51 PM |
#88 |
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We're a happy family, we're a happy family, |
bullwinkle428 |
Dec-31-08 10:35 AM |
#46 |
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thanks |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 11:52 AM |
#57 |
  -
I would take that statement at face value. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:26 PM |
#82 |
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now that is interesting |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 03:40 PM |
#111 |
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I've wondered about that a lot, too. As you know, the U.S. government funded psychological studies |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 04:06 PM |
#114 |
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Easy to say that, annit, when you're a straight guy? |
Heidi |
Dec-31-08 12:30 PM |
#70 |
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Assuming someone might be straight is worse than 10 Gearge Bushes? |
Bette Noir |
Dec-31-08 12:46 PM |
#74 |
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LOL! |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:24 PM |
#81 |
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That damned Barak Obama! He's trying to destoy us all with unimportant |
Lorien |
Dec-31-08 03:08 PM |
#104 |
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Thank you, I only wish you could have posted that in his other thread before it was locked. |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-31-08 03:25 PM |
#110 |
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k & r -- very well done! |
crispini |
Dec-31-08 07:38 AM |
#23 |
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Well said |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-31-08 08:05 AM |
#26 |
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Recommended, bookmarked and kicked. |
asthmaticeog |
Dec-31-08 08:19 AM |
#28 |
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Another vote for K&R 1000 times |
lukasahero |
Dec-31-08 08:29 AM |
#32 |
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K&R does not do this justice. |
blindpig |
Dec-31-08 08:56 AM |
#33 |
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Solidarity is the only way |
maryf |
Dec-31-08 12:18 PM |
#64 |
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Kicked and highly recommended! Thank you, Two Americas! Excellent post! |
Raster |
Dec-31-08 09:07 AM |
#34 |
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K&R |
ginbarn |
Dec-31-08 09:13 AM |
#36 |
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Very thoughtful, but I mostly disagree with you. |
Waiting For Everyman |
Dec-31-08 09:37 AM |
#39 |
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thanks |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 11:42 AM |
#55 |
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I have a dog in your fight because you're a human being, and you have one in "mine" |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:34 PM |
#85 |
  -
Agreed. By not having a "dog in this fight" I meant the controversy here on DU. |
Waiting For Everyman |
Dec-31-08 11:08 PM |
#146 |
   -
Happy New Year to you, Waiting For Everyman |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 11:27 PM |
#148 |
    -
Thanks back to you, TA. :) |
Waiting For Everyman |
Dec-31-08 11:45 PM |
#151 |
   -
I feel strongly that this is a general civil rights, human rights, issue. |
yardwork |
Jan-02-09 11:04 PM |
#193 |
  -
Yup |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-01-09 03:16 PM |
#177 |
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Chewing Gum and Walking |
Barbarien |
Dec-31-08 03:01 PM |
#101 |
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Not only that, gay folks work on a variety of other social issues, including veterans rights. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 04:12 PM |
#115 |
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yes.. |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 04:18 PM |
#116 |
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I have called Obama 'religiously bigoted'.... |
AntiFascist |
Dec-31-08 04:39 PM |
#121 |
  -
Bigoted? |
thefourthwall |
Jan-01-09 02:13 PM |
#168 |
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Welcome to DU, and I very much appreciate you engaging this dialog... |
AntiFascist |
Jan-01-09 02:53 PM |
#172 |
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I support the OP, but you also have good points. nm |
rhett o rick |
Dec-31-08 06:03 PM |
#129 |
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And there we see it yet again |
NWHarkness |
Dec-31-08 06:43 PM |
#137 |
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Ok... |
Waiting For Everyman |
Dec-31-08 11:29 PM |
#149 |
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I would suggest being more specific about who is making these mistakes. |
geckosfeet |
Dec-31-08 10:19 AM |
#43 |
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I have been |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 12:34 PM |
#72 |
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I am not sure what you have said. But I feel that talking about gay rights outside |
geckosfeet |
Dec-31-08 02:08 PM |
#92 |
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I hope that I am not doing that |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 03:00 PM |
#100 |
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Now THAT, sir, is going to leave a mark! K&R! |
bullwinkle428 |
Dec-31-08 10:30 AM |
#44 |
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Very nice post. The outrage over Warren is |
stillwaiting |
Dec-31-08 10:35 AM |
#47 |
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TwoAmericas, you are one heck of a |
Kajsa |
Dec-31-08 10:42 AM |
#49 |
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Brilliantly considered and beautifully expressed. |
elaineb |
Dec-31-08 10:42 AM |
#50 |
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Well Said |
fascisthunter |
Dec-31-08 11:17 AM |
#52 |
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My favorite part of your OP ... |
ColbertWatcher |
Dec-31-08 11:31 AM |
#53 |
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Thank you. You have expressed what so many have been feeling |
GinaMaria |
Dec-31-08 11:37 AM |
#54 |
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A masterpiece. Thank you. |
Neshanic |
Dec-31-08 11:47 AM |
#56 |
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Two Americas thank you for a well thought out and provoking |
MadMaddie |
Dec-31-08 11:59 AM |
#60 |
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Excellent. As always. K&R. n/t |
Horse with no Name |
Dec-31-08 12:02 PM |
#61 |
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Fantastic post!!! Bravo!!! |
racaulk |
Dec-31-08 12:08 PM |
#62 |
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Very Accurate Analysis of Discource and Some of the Problems. |
mentalslavery |
Dec-31-08 12:17 PM |
#63 |
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yes |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 12:22 PM |
#68 |
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Ding-ding |
Orwellian_Ghost |
Dec-31-08 12:18 PM |
#65 |
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Brilliant post |
Spryboy |
Dec-31-08 12:19 PM |
#66 |
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I agree -- that paragraph jumped off the page for me too. |
Zenlitened |
Dec-31-08 12:36 PM |
#73 |
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and how small of steps |
ImOnlySleeping |
Dec-31-08 04:30 PM |
#118 |
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This post is excellent on many counts |
Time for change |
Dec-31-08 12:19 PM |
#67 |
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good point |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 12:29 PM |
#69 |
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That's what it sounded to me like |
Time for change |
Dec-31-08 03:02 PM |
#102 |
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it can be both |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 03:23 PM |
#109 |
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Yes, it can be either or both |
Time for change |
Dec-31-08 03:46 PM |
#113 |
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Meta-understanding is called for... |
AntiFascist |
Dec-31-08 07:51 PM |
#143 |
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I agree 100%. |
Bette Noir |
Dec-31-08 12:34 PM |
#71 |
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Individual Rights are an inherent liberty, not awarded by human power. |
bluedawg12 |
Dec-31-08 12:48 PM |
#75 |
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yes |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 02:06 PM |
#90 |
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Being for civil rights but opposing tactics is a kind of irony. |
bluedawg12 |
Dec-31-08 05:00 PM |
#123 |
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Very Well Stated |
Mike Nelson |
Dec-31-08 12:59 PM |
#76 |
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Brilliant post |
enigmatic |
Dec-31-08 01:01 PM |
#77 |
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it's partly the other way around |
Enrique |
Dec-31-08 01:18 PM |
#78 |
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good points there, thanks |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 02:45 PM |
#96 |
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LABELEVATION: the act of elevating name-calling as highest offense. |
valerief |
Dec-31-08 01:18 PM |
#79 |
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i love this -- and you should submit it -- but please, please remember |
xchrom |
Dec-31-08 01:21 PM |
#80 |
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Not sure what you mean by this - I think that human rights are everyone's struggle. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:28 PM |
#83 |
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I recommend this to the DU Admins. It explains everything that is happening here. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:29 PM |
#84 |
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Somehow, it seems appropriate |
Oeditpus Rex |
Dec-31-08 01:45 PM |
#87 |
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I agree that this is the post of the year. I think it's the single best post I've ever seen. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 01:52 PM |
#89 |
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Mickey Mantle |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 02:57 PM |
#99 |
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The last time he hit against McLain, yeah |
Oeditpus Rex |
Dec-31-08 03:45 PM |
#112 |
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I think that is the first time |
Chovexani |
Dec-31-08 06:51 PM |
#138 |
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lol |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 07:07 PM |
#139 |
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Hee. You bet. |
Chovexani |
Dec-31-08 07:13 PM |
#140 |
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Softball? |
Oeditpus Rex |
Dec-31-08 09:54 PM |
#145 |
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LOL |
Chovexani |
Jan-01-09 05:41 PM |
#186 |
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K&R |
varelse |
Dec-31-08 02:08 PM |
#91 |
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k & r! |
MPK |
Dec-31-08 02:29 PM |
#94 |
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What a wonderful, thoughtful essay TA. Thank you for this and all your posts! |
saracat |
Dec-31-08 02:29 PM |
#95 |
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K & R. Either everyone is free and has equal rights or none of us are |
Lorien |
Dec-31-08 02:50 PM |
#97 |
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we shouldn't forget |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 03:15 PM |
#105 |
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Right on! |
Lorien |
Dec-31-08 03:21 PM |
#107 |
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IMO . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jan-01-09 12:07 AM |
#152 |
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I think this post deserves two thumbs up! |
Solon |
Dec-31-08 03:04 PM |
#103 |
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Well stated! Thank you, What is Sad is that Obama's decision |
Riverman |
Dec-31-08 04:34 PM |
#120 |
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Obama did it, on purpose. He's gonna hurt all sides working towards the center. |
scubadude |
Dec-31-08 04:46 PM |
#122 |
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I'll believe that Obama is sincere about this when he honors a prominent white supremacist. |
yardwork |
Dec-31-08 06:16 PM |
#134 |
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You make a nice overall case but |
TheKentuckian |
Dec-31-08 05:06 PM |
#125 |
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response |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 05:54 PM |
#127 |
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K&R - simple, well thought, reasoned plea to realize we must speak up - always! eom |
themartyred |
Dec-31-08 05:22 PM |
#126 |
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K&R Excellent, excellent post. |
Pithlet |
Dec-31-08 06:03 PM |
#128 |
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K & Rec 100. Good post. nm |
rhett o rick |
Dec-31-08 06:04 PM |
#130 |
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Posts like this are why DU remains such a great resource. |
JeffR |
Dec-31-08 06:15 PM |
#132 |
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This has to be one of the best things I've read on DU. |
myrna minx |
Dec-31-08 06:16 PM |
#133 |
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I agree with most of your very well-put points, |
liberalhistorian |
Dec-31-08 06:40 PM |
#135 |
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thanks |
Two Americas |
Dec-31-08 07:19 PM |
#141 |
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Delete, double |
liberalhistorian |
Dec-31-08 06:40 PM |
#136 |
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GLBTQ??? |
QuestionAll |
Dec-31-08 07:48 PM |
#142 |
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Queer |
jonmiller74 |
Jan-01-09 01:02 PM |
#164 |
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i guess i'm not following... |
QuestionAll |
Jan-02-09 02:08 AM |
#189 |
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Some gay people prefer the term "queer" as it is all-inclusive. |
yardwork |
Jan-02-09 11:08 PM |
#194 |
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... |
QuestionAll |
Jan-04-09 12:19 AM |
#196 |
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What a great post |
gollygee |
Dec-31-08 07:53 PM |
#144 |
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It's hard to believe that you could have ever been even a bit on the wrong side . . . |
defendandprotect |
Dec-31-08 11:20 PM |
#147 |
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tv |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 02:44 PM |
#171 |
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So true, Two Americas... |
maryf |
Jan-01-09 03:25 PM |
#180 |
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yes, very difficult to even discuss things outside the tv-imposed frame. |
Hannah Bell |
Jan-01-09 03:28 PM |
#181 |
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"why do you think they call it Programming" |
maryf |
Jan-01-09 04:40 PM |
#184 |
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Me, too -- haven't watched "news" in decades . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jan-02-09 11:00 PM |
#192 |
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LATE K&R . . . |
defendandprotect |
Jan-01-09 12:12 AM |
#153 |
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Excellent writing. Bookmarking. |
baby_mouse |
Jan-01-09 10:12 AM |
#158 |
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absolutely |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 12:36 PM |
#161 |
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An outstanding post. Thank you n/t |
DeanDem10 |
Jan-01-09 10:24 AM |
#159 |
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Thank you. K&R |
jonmiller74 |
Jan-01-09 12:54 PM |
#162 |
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I realized when Scalia told us to get over Florida |
catrose |
Jan-01-09 12:58 PM |
#163 |
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"get over it" |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 02:27 PM |
#169 |
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Bravo - thank you very much |
ruggerson |
Jan-01-09 01:03 PM |
#165 |
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Very thoughtful post - especially about the lying |
Iwillnevergiveup |
Jan-01-09 01:32 PM |
#166 |
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Well, at least a kick |
Iwillnevergiveup |
Jan-01-09 01:33 PM |
#167 |
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K&R n/t |
IndianaGreen |
Jan-01-09 03:13 PM |
#175 |
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Too late to recommend, but I wish I could |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-01-09 03:13 PM |
#176 |
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I beg to differ slightly |
quaker bill |
Jan-01-09 03:17 PM |
#178 |
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I agree with you on that |
JerseygirlCT |
Jan-01-09 03:19 PM |
#179 |
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yes |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 04:11 PM |
#183 |
  -
I also think there is a subtle difference between... |
AntiFascist |
Jan-01-09 05:12 PM |
#185 |
   -
big difference I think |
Two Americas |
Jan-01-09 06:25 PM |
#187 |
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Another Thumbs up! |
curt_b |
Jan-02-09 10:00 AM |
#190 |
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exactly right |
Two Americas |
Jan-02-09 07:01 PM |
#191 |
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Remember, though, that there is no such thing as "gay leadership." |
yardwork |
Jan-02-09 11:15 PM |
#195 |
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Kick and I wish I could rec. |
carpentrerman |
Jan-01-09 11:32 PM |
#188 |