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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. thanks
I wish we could generate a little more discussion on this.

I don't like letting the idea stand unchallenged that it is those talking about the Warren selection who are out of line and causing trouble, while those saying "get over it" are the "calm" and "rationale" voices who are the peacemakers. Peace that comes at the expense of isolating, marginalizing and dismissing GLBTQ people is not something we should seek or accept.

This challenge is parallel to the challenge we face on all of the issues. We are being told that there would be peace, and no partisan divide if only the annoying Left would just go away or shut up. Of course there will be peace if one side simply surrenders or disappears. But that is no sort of peace that we should be supporting or promoting.
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  -The mistakes that we as straights are making Two Americas  Dec-30-08 06:13 PM   #0 
  - You should try to get this published as an OP -- k&r  LostinVA   Dec-30-08 07:03 PM   #1 
  - Seriously, type this up and submit it as an Op-Ed to your local paper.  Bucky   Dec-30-08 07:07 PM   #2 
  - Another great post Two Americas, once again you hit the nail on the head.  MN Against Bush   Dec-30-08 07:17 PM   #3 
  - Hopefully, people will have enough self-honesty to read your post and take it to heart.  readmoreoften   Dec-30-08 07:18 PM   #4 
  - thanks  Two Americas   Dec-30-08 10:04 PM   #9 
     - Ok, you asked for it....  yowzayowzayowza   Dec-31-08 01:39 AM   #18 
     - your points are well taken  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 11:56 AM   #59 
     - Again, I only see you emphasising that . . .  defendandprotect   Dec-31-08 11:44 PM   #150 
        - Yes and no.  yowzayowzayowza   Jan-01-09 12:21 AM   #154 
           - First, politics is personal . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-01-09 12:39 AM   #155 
              - On your conclusion on gradualism and general principles we are in agreement.  yowzayowzayowza   Jan-01-09 12:57 AM   #156 
                 - Again, the response to Warren came from the world at large . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-01-09 01:15 AM   #157 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Dec-31-08 10:16 AM   #42 
     - Okay, I'll bite ...  ColbertWatcher   Dec-31-08 01:42 PM   #86 
        - that is a great point  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 02:20 PM   #93 
        - "do we cave in to fear, or do we go ahead in spite of our fears?"  ColbertWatcher   Dec-31-08 05:01 PM   #124 
        - But, is everyone being accused of saying "get over it" really saying that?  CTyankee   Jan-01-09 02:55 PM   #173 
  - A truly terrific post!  Zenlitened   Dec-30-08 07:25 PM   #5 
  - Two Americas  maryf   Dec-30-08 09:00 PM   #6 
  - What a Breath of Fresh Air!  Crisco   Dec-30-08 09:04 PM   #7 
  - I don't think I've read a better argument for gay marriage anywhere, ever.  PelosiFan   Dec-30-08 09:31 PM   #8 
  - hey thanks PelosiFan  Two Americas   Dec-30-08 10:30 PM   #11 
     - Actually, there is a problem with the accusation of "get over it" where it should NOT be applied.  CTyankee   Jan-01-09 02:43 PM   #170 
        - I agree  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 02:57 PM   #174 
           - Thanks. You know, it works more than it doesn't, at least I've found it to be the case.  CTyankee   Jan-01-09 03:57 PM   #182 
  - great read  sundog   Dec-30-08 10:08 PM   #10 
  - here is what is odd  Two Americas   Dec-30-08 11:38 PM   #14 
     - exactly. another K&R here (n/t)  kenzee13   Dec-31-08 07:28 AM   #21 
     - Precisely !  AntiFascist   Dec-31-08 04:20 PM   #117 
  - Beautiful.  PeaceNikki   Dec-30-08 10:45 PM   #12 
  - K&R 1,000 times  leftstreet   Dec-30-08 11:21 PM   #13 
  - very thought-provoking, about how people frame arguments themselves. excellent. nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Dec-30-08 11:45 PM   #15 
  - Well done.  sfexpat2000   Dec-30-08 11:50 PM   #16 
  - K&R, excellent post!  AntiFascist   Dec-31-08 12:42 AM   #17 
  - This is merely the beginning, of being told to let go of issues.  Progs Rock   Dec-31-08 03:43 AM   #19 
  - K&R - you mentioned the point that too many miss  EstimatedProphet   Dec-31-08 06:59 AM   #20 
  - I agree with you. This is an important point. Why should anyone tell someone else to calm down?  rhett o rick   Dec-31-08 09:54 AM   #41 
  - You want to know the REAL mistake YOU are making  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 07:29 AM   #22 
  - LOL. That's all you got?  crispini   Dec-31-08 07:41 AM   #24 
  - You can't build on a foundation of quicksand  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 07:48 AM   #25 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-31-08 08:19 AM   #27 
     - It's idealism. I live in the real world.  crispini   Dec-31-08 09:41 AM   #40 
        - We live in a real world, but we should be guided by ideals  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 10:39 AM   #48 
           - I'm not advocating labels.  crispini   Dec-31-08 11:56 AM   #58 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-31-08 08:21 AM   #29 
  - Nomads by definition don't have a place of their own to shit.  asthmaticeog   Dec-31-08 08:24 AM   #30 
  - ha!  sundog   Dec-31-08 08:28 AM   #31 
  - So.... they just shit any and everywhere, huh?  PeaceNikki   Dec-31-08 09:10 AM   #35 
  - Evidently.  asthmaticeog   Dec-31-08 09:26 AM   #38 
     - You want to see shitting by people thinking they are shitting rainbows  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 03:22 PM   #108 
        - This seems like a bit of Rovian projection on your part, no?  Zenlitened   Dec-31-08 04:32 PM   #119 
           - You see what you want to see, rather than what is  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 06:08 PM   #131 
              - Projection. See also...  Zenlitened   Jan-01-09 11:17 AM   #160 
  - We should call him Johnny Crappleseed.  Starbucks Anarchist   Dec-31-08 10:34 AM   #45 
     - !!!  asthmaticeog   Dec-31-08 11:05 AM   #51 
     - ....  Lorien   Dec-31-08 02:53 PM   #98 
  - Yeah you should go visit that thread  nomad1776   Dec-31-08 03:20 PM   #106 
  - That's truly one of the most idiotic responses I have ever seen on DU  EstimatedProphet   Dec-31-08 09:15 AM   #37 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-31-08 01:51 PM   #88 
  - We're a happy family, we're a happy family,  bullwinkle428   Dec-31-08 10:35 AM   #46 
  - thanks  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 11:52 AM   #57 
  - I would take that statement at face value.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:26 PM   #82 
     - now that is interesting  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 03:40 PM   #111 
        - I've wondered about that a lot, too. As you know, the U.S. government funded psychological studies  yardwork   Dec-31-08 04:06 PM   #114 
  - Easy to say that, annit, when you're a straight guy?  Heidi   Dec-31-08 12:30 PM   #70 
  - Assuming someone might be straight is worse than 10 Gearge Bushes?  Bette Noir   Dec-31-08 12:46 PM   #74 
  - LOL!  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:24 PM   #81 
  - That damned Barak Obama! He's trying to destoy us all with unimportant  Lorien   Dec-31-08 03:08 PM   #104 
     - Thank you, I only wish you could have posted that in his other thread before it was locked.  MN Against Bush   Dec-31-08 03:25 PM   #110 
  - k & r -- very well done!  crispini   Dec-31-08 07:38 AM   #23 
  - Well said  Bluenorthwest   Dec-31-08 08:05 AM   #26 
  - Recommended, bookmarked and kicked.  asthmaticeog   Dec-31-08 08:19 AM   #28 
  - Another vote for K&R 1000 times  lukasahero   Dec-31-08 08:29 AM   #32 
  - K&R does not do this justice.  blindpig   Dec-31-08 08:56 AM   #33 
  - Solidarity is the only way  maryf   Dec-31-08 12:18 PM   #64 
  - Kicked and highly recommended! Thank you, Two Americas! Excellent post!  Raster   Dec-31-08 09:07 AM   #34 
  - K&R  ginbarn   Dec-31-08 09:13 AM   #36 
  - Very thoughtful, but I mostly disagree with you.  Waiting For Everyman   Dec-31-08 09:37 AM   #39 
  - thanks  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 11:42 AM   #55 
  - I have a dog in your fight because you're a human being, and you have one in "mine"  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:34 PM   #85 
  - Agreed. By not having a "dog in this fight" I meant the controversy here on DU.  Waiting For Everyman   Dec-31-08 11:08 PM   #146 
  - Happy New Year to you, Waiting For Everyman  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 11:27 PM   #148 
  - Thanks back to you, TA. :)  Waiting For Everyman   Dec-31-08 11:45 PM   #151 
  - I feel strongly that this is a general civil rights, human rights, issue.  yardwork   Jan-02-09 11:04 PM   #193 
  - Yup  JerseygirlCT   Jan-01-09 03:16 PM   #177 
  - Chewing Gum and Walking  Barbarien   Dec-31-08 03:01 PM   #101 
  - Not only that, gay folks work on a variety of other social issues, including veterans rights.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 04:12 PM   #115 
     - yes..  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 04:18 PM   #116 
  - I have called Obama 'religiously bigoted'....  AntiFascist   Dec-31-08 04:39 PM   #121 
  - Bigoted?  thefourthwall   Jan-01-09 02:13 PM   #168 
     - Welcome to DU, and I very much appreciate you engaging this dialog...  AntiFascist   Jan-01-09 02:53 PM   #172 
  - I support the OP, but you also have good points. nm  rhett o rick   Dec-31-08 06:03 PM   #129 
  - And there we see it yet again  NWHarkness   Dec-31-08 06:43 PM   #137 
     - Ok...  Waiting For Everyman   Dec-31-08 11:29 PM   #149 
  - I would suggest being more specific about who is making these mistakes.  geckosfeet   Dec-31-08 10:19 AM   #43 
  - I have been  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 12:34 PM   #72 
     - I am not sure what you have said. But I feel that talking about gay rights outside  geckosfeet   Dec-31-08 02:08 PM   #92 
        - I hope that I am not doing that  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 03:00 PM   #100 
  - Now THAT, sir, is going to leave a mark! K&R!  bullwinkle428   Dec-31-08 10:30 AM   #44 
  - Very nice post. The outrage over Warren is  stillwaiting   Dec-31-08 10:35 AM   #47 
  - TwoAmericas, you are one heck of a  Kajsa   Dec-31-08 10:42 AM   #49 
  - Brilliantly considered and beautifully expressed.  elaineb   Dec-31-08 10:42 AM   #50 
  - Well Said  fascisthunter   Dec-31-08 11:17 AM   #52 
  - My favorite part of your OP ...  ColbertWatcher   Dec-31-08 11:31 AM   #53 
  - Thank you. You have expressed what so many have been feeling  GinaMaria   Dec-31-08 11:37 AM   #54 
  - A masterpiece. Thank you.  Neshanic   Dec-31-08 11:47 AM   #56 
  - Two Americas thank you for a well thought out and provoking  MadMaddie   Dec-31-08 11:59 AM   #60 
  - Excellent. As always. K&R. n/t  Horse with no Name   Dec-31-08 12:02 PM   #61 
  - Fantastic post!!! Bravo!!!  racaulk   Dec-31-08 12:08 PM   #62 
  - Very Accurate Analysis of Discource and Some of the Problems.  mentalslavery   Dec-31-08 12:17 PM   #63 
  - yes  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 12:22 PM   #68 
  - Ding-ding  Orwellian_Ghost   Dec-31-08 12:18 PM   #65 
  - Brilliant post  Spryboy   Dec-31-08 12:19 PM   #66 
  - I agree -- that paragraph jumped off the page for me too.  Zenlitened   Dec-31-08 12:36 PM   #73 
  - and how small of steps  ImOnlySleeping   Dec-31-08 04:30 PM   #118 
  - This post is excellent on many counts  Time for change   Dec-31-08 12:19 PM   #67 
  - good point  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 12:29 PM   #69 
     - That's what it sounded to me like  Time for change   Dec-31-08 03:02 PM   #102 
        - it can be both  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 03:23 PM   #109 
        - Yes, it can be either or both  Time for change   Dec-31-08 03:46 PM   #113 
        - Meta-understanding is called for...  AntiFascist   Dec-31-08 07:51 PM   #143 
  - I agree 100%.  Bette Noir   Dec-31-08 12:34 PM   #71 
  - Individual Rights are an inherent liberty, not awarded by human power.  bluedawg12   Dec-31-08 12:48 PM   #75 
  - yes  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 02:06 PM   #90 
     - Being for civil rights but opposing tactics is a kind of irony.  bluedawg12   Dec-31-08 05:00 PM   #123 
  - Very Well Stated  Mike Nelson   Dec-31-08 12:59 PM   #76 
  - Brilliant post  enigmatic   Dec-31-08 01:01 PM   #77 
  - it's partly the other way around  Enrique   Dec-31-08 01:18 PM   #78 
  - good points there, thanks  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 02:45 PM   #96 
  - LABELEVATION: the act of elevating name-calling as highest offense.  valerief   Dec-31-08 01:18 PM   #79 
  - i love this -- and you should submit it -- but please, please remember  xchrom   Dec-31-08 01:21 PM   #80 
  - Not sure what you mean by this - I think that human rights are everyone's struggle.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:28 PM   #83 
  - I recommend this to the DU Admins. It explains everything that is happening here.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:29 PM   #84 
  - Somehow, it seems appropriate  Oeditpus Rex   Dec-31-08 01:45 PM   #87 
  - I agree that this is the post of the year. I think it's the single best post I've ever seen.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 01:52 PM   #89 
  - Mickey Mantle  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 02:57 PM   #99 
     - The last time he hit against McLain, yeah  Oeditpus Rex   Dec-31-08 03:45 PM   #112 
        - I think that is the first time  Chovexani   Dec-31-08 06:51 PM   #138 
           - lol  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 07:07 PM   #139 
           - Hee. You bet.  Chovexani   Dec-31-08 07:13 PM   #140 
           - Softball?  Oeditpus Rex   Dec-31-08 09:54 PM   #145 
              - LOL  Chovexani   Jan-01-09 05:41 PM   #186 
  - K&R  varelse   Dec-31-08 02:08 PM   #91 
  - k & r!  MPK   Dec-31-08 02:29 PM   #94 
  - What a wonderful, thoughtful essay TA. Thank you for this and all your posts!  saracat   Dec-31-08 02:29 PM   #95 
  - K & R. Either everyone is free and has equal rights or none of us are  Lorien   Dec-31-08 02:50 PM   #97 
  - we shouldn't forget  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 03:15 PM   #105 
     - Right on!  Lorien   Dec-31-08 03:21 PM   #107 
     - IMO . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-01-09 12:07 AM   #152 
  - I think this post deserves two thumbs up!  Solon   Dec-31-08 03:04 PM   #103 
  - Well stated! Thank you, What is Sad is that Obama's decision  Riverman   Dec-31-08 04:34 PM   #120 
  - Obama did it, on purpose. He's gonna hurt all sides working towards the center.  scubadude   Dec-31-08 04:46 PM   #122 
  - I'll believe that Obama is sincere about this when he honors a prominent white supremacist.  yardwork   Dec-31-08 06:16 PM   #134 
  - You make a nice overall case but  TheKentuckian   Dec-31-08 05:06 PM   #125 
  - response  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 05:54 PM   #127 
  - K&R - simple, well thought, reasoned plea to realize we must speak up - always! eom  themartyred   Dec-31-08 05:22 PM   #126 
  - K&R Excellent, excellent post.  Pithlet   Dec-31-08 06:03 PM   #128 
  - K & Rec 100. Good post. nm  rhett o rick   Dec-31-08 06:04 PM   #130 
  - Posts like this are why DU remains such a great resource.  JeffR   Dec-31-08 06:15 PM   #132 
  - This has to be one of the best things I've read on DU.  myrna minx   Dec-31-08 06:16 PM   #133 
  - I agree with most of your very well-put points,  liberalhistorian   Dec-31-08 06:40 PM   #135 
  - thanks  Two Americas   Dec-31-08 07:19 PM   #141 
  - Delete, double  liberalhistorian   Dec-31-08 06:40 PM   #136 
  - GLBTQ???  QuestionAll   Dec-31-08 07:48 PM   #142 
  - Queer  jonmiller74   Jan-01-09 01:02 PM   #164 
     - i guess i'm not following...  QuestionAll   Jan-02-09 02:08 AM   #189 
        - Some gay people prefer the term "queer" as it is all-inclusive.  yardwork   Jan-02-09 11:08 PM   #194 
           - ...  QuestionAll   Jan-04-09 12:19 AM   #196 
  - What a great post  gollygee   Dec-31-08 07:53 PM   #144 
  - It's hard to believe that you could have ever been even a bit on the wrong side . . .  defendandprotect   Dec-31-08 11:20 PM   #147 
  - tv  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 02:44 PM   #171 
     - So true, Two Americas...  maryf   Jan-01-09 03:25 PM   #180 
     - yes, very difficult to even discuss things outside the tv-imposed frame.  Hannah Bell   Jan-01-09 03:28 PM   #181 
     - "why do you think they call it Programming"  maryf   Jan-01-09 04:40 PM   #184 
     - Me, too -- haven't watched "news" in decades . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-02-09 11:00 PM   #192 
  - LATE K&R . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-01-09 12:12 AM   #153 
  - Excellent writing. Bookmarking.  baby_mouse   Jan-01-09 10:12 AM   #158 
  - absolutely  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 12:36 PM   #161 
  - An outstanding post. Thank you n/t  DeanDem10   Jan-01-09 10:24 AM   #159 
  - Thank you. K&R  jonmiller74   Jan-01-09 12:54 PM   #162 
  - I realized when Scalia told us to get over Florida  catrose   Jan-01-09 12:58 PM   #163 
  - "get over it"  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 02:27 PM   #169 
  - Bravo - thank you very much  ruggerson   Jan-01-09 01:03 PM   #165 
  - Very thoughtful post - especially about the lying  Iwillnevergiveup   Jan-01-09 01:32 PM   #166 
  - Well, at least a kick  Iwillnevergiveup   Jan-01-09 01:33 PM   #167 
  - K&R n/t  IndianaGreen   Jan-01-09 03:13 PM   #175 
  - Too late to recommend, but I wish I could  JerseygirlCT   Jan-01-09 03:13 PM   #176 
  - I beg to differ slightly  quaker bill   Jan-01-09 03:17 PM   #178 
  - I agree with you on that  JerseygirlCT   Jan-01-09 03:19 PM   #179 
  - yes  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 04:11 PM   #183 
  - I also think there is a subtle difference between...  AntiFascist   Jan-01-09 05:12 PM   #185 
  - big difference I think  Two Americas   Jan-01-09 06:25 PM   #187 
  - Another Thumbs up!  curt_b   Jan-02-09 10:00 AM   #190 
     - exactly right  Two Americas   Jan-02-09 07:01 PM   #191 
  - Remember, though, that there is no such thing as "gay leadership."  yardwork   Jan-02-09 11:15 PM   #195 
  - Kick and I wish I could rec.  carpentrerman   Jan-01-09 11:32 PM   #188 
 

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