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Reply #157: Also take into account OHC vs. OHV. [View All]

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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
157. Also take into account OHC vs. OHV.
I think the longevity that LTx and LSx series GM V8s is greatly due to their OHV construction. It seems to me that overhead cam engines were created for two reasons. The first was to allow smaller displacement(not lighter, mind you, but smaller displaement) engines to perform better at higher RPMs and the second was so that manufacturers had greater control over intake and exhaust timing. As GM has proven with their latest OHV engines (which seem to all be V8s, but I'd love to see them make a V6 or two from their LS line like they did with the old 262 which was a 350 with two cylinders lopped off), that you can achieve everything desirable in an engine (torque, horsepower, smoothness, quietness and fuel economy) without resorting to a more complicated overhead cam design. Then you add in things like cam in cam technology which allows for a degree of variable valve timing to be integrated into OHV engines, and you've got an engine with great power, smoothness and fuel economy. I really believe that GM has created damn close to the perfect engine with the LSx series V8s. I hope in the near future, we see more simply RWD, V8 powered sedans and coupes that are easy to work on and provide great value. We're seeing that to an extent with the new Pontiac G8 and Chevy Camaro, but I'd like to see more FWD cars phased out for RWD replacements. I've never understood why all economy cars are FWD, I would have thought that at least one car manufacturer would have a cheap, small RWD 4 cylinder that sold for the same as the Cobalts, Civics, Corollas and Focuses yet was a lot more fun.

Your points about FWD cars are very valid, but the problems with FWD cars are not reserved solely for imports. I think a large portion of the decline in quality of domestics during the 80s and the early 90s was due to the big 3 switching the great bulk of their vehicles to FWD and lacking the experience that the foreign competition had with them. I think if they had focused on making their existing RWD vehicles more fuel efficient rather than creating entirely new FWD compacts, they'd be in better shape now. All these years later and it still seems that old school OHV technology and RWD is still the way to go. RWD is not only cheaper and easier to produce, but RWD cars are so much more fun to drive than their FWD counterparts.
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  -Let's get something straight folks: Detroit's problems are NOT a function of car type or car quality ddeclue  Dec-11-08 05:32 PM   #0 
  - K&R  MichiganVote   Dec-11-08 05:35 PM   #1 
  - the problems are:  leftofthedial   Dec-11-08 05:35 PM   #2 
  - As long as gas stays low don't expect the shift to more efficient cars  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:38 PM   #6 
  - you mean like my 1993 Corolla wagon  leftofthedial   Dec-11-08 05:45 PM   #15 
  - No I mean like the two Mazda POS's that I owned in college  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:30 PM   #55 
     - Oh like the Accord we sold before we came back to the mainland  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-11-08 06:48 PM   #68 
     - That's strange... maybe you got a lemon  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 07:45 PM   #106 
  - And isn't it odd that right before Detroit asked for a bailout gas prices fell? n/t  ColbertWatcher   Dec-11-08 05:50 PM   #23 
     - Two theories:  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:33 PM   #58 
     - I suspect the Saudis will have us sitting in gas lines..  Virginia Dare   Dec-12-08 01:09 PM   #155 
     - WORLD demand has collapsed, that's why  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-11-08 06:49 PM   #70 
        - Of course it fell, but you have to admit the timing is curious. n/t  ColbertWatcher   Dec-11-08 06:57 PM   #80 
           - World demand started to crash before the election  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-11-08 07:03 PM   #83 
              - Not just the demand for oil, but the timing of the bailouts.  ColbertWatcher   Dec-11-08 07:10 PM   #88 
  - Unfortunately, most large companies here treat their  spindrifter   Dec-11-08 05:38 PM   #7 
  - re:  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 05:42 PM   #11 
  - bad management  leftofthedial   Dec-11-08 05:44 PM   #13 
  - Bad management makes a company bad. I've lived through good and bad management.  SharonAnn   Dec-11-08 08:55 PM   #139 
  - Your #3 is wrong  lastliberalintexas   Dec-11-08 05:43 PM   #12 
  - So what, No, No, No, No.  Festivito   Dec-11-08 06:30 PM   #54 
     - WELL SAID! n/t  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:32 PM   #56 
     - what possible agenda could I have?  leftofthedial   Dec-12-08 12:01 AM   #150 
  - You are wrong about longevity of large engines vs smaller engines..  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 05:36 PM   #3 
  - No I'm not wrong...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:51 PM   #24 
  - I'll be surprised if I don't get 300k out of our Altima..  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 06:10 PM   #41 
  - Actually ...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:20 PM   #48 
     - I had over 100k miles on a 600 cc four cylinder motorycle engine when I sold it..  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 06:41 PM   #63 
        - Motorcycle = aircooled engine??  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:45 PM   #66 
           - In this case it was air cooled..  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 07:02 PM   #82 
              - I would tend to disagree because  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:10 PM   #87 
                 - Even motocross bikes have been water cooled for two decades.  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 08:00 PM   #121 
  - Also take into account OHC vs. OHV.  EOTE   Dec-12-08 01:31 PM   #157 
  - He's correct. To extrapolate, check out '18 wheelers'. Their engines  Edweird   Dec-11-08 06:08 PM   #39 
     - Commercial vehicles are designed to a different standard than passenger cars..  Fumesucker   Dec-11-08 06:14 PM   #46 
  - re:Let's get something straight folks: Detroit's problems are NOT a function of car type or car qual  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 05:37 PM   #4 
  - Nope.. it's just common sense:  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:40 PM   #62 
     - re:  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 06:50 PM   #73 
        - Who has the money required to control GM?  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:23 PM   #93 
        - re:  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 07:58 PM   #118 
        - Yeah...  sendero   Dec-11-08 08:47 PM   #137 
           - If you know so well how to run them  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 09:32 PM   #143 
              - I never said..  sendero   Dec-12-08 06:22 AM   #151 
  - I thought the Chevy Silverado/GMC was the best selling truck?  lastliberalintexas   Dec-11-08 05:37 PM   #5 
  - Perhaps Chevy Silverado is the current sales leader  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:40 PM   #10 
  - Chevy/GMC created the truck  lastliberalintexas   Dec-11-08 05:48 PM   #17 
  - You really think American cars could sell well here in Japan?  Art_from_Ark   Dec-11-08 07:32 PM   #100 
  - Yup! It's like musical chairs unless they sell 17 million cars...  TreasonousBastard   Dec-11-08 05:39 PM   #8 
  - Isn't the F-150 a piece of shit, despite its sales?  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-11-08 05:39 PM   #9 
  - Sorry but you are lumping a lot of different engines together when you talk about 4G Camaros  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:45 PM   #14 
     - You can't fool all of the people all of the time.  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-11-08 05:49 PM   #20 
        - You are just a basher and are talking out your ***  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:52 PM   #25 
           - never mind  annabanana   Dec-11-08 06:57 PM   #78 
           - Except all those recalls...  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 07:57 PM   #117 
  - Recommend, and mostly agree. But I don't understand how stronger unions are going  bertman   Dec-11-08 05:47 PM   #16 
  - It's real simple:  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:54 PM   #27 
     - Okay, ddeclue, I see some validity in that. But in the meantime, let's work on the other  bertman   Dec-11-08 08:57 PM   #140 
  - Not only is the day of the Detroit V-8 over, the century of the automobile is over as well.  Ron_Green   Dec-11-08 05:48 PM   #18 
  - You are wrong - Americans will give you their guns before they give your their cars.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:05 PM   #34 
     - Yeah, well, when I read your comments about "roller skates" on some other threads  Ron_Green   Dec-11-08 07:06 PM   #84 
        - Well Ron you're not Presidente por Vida  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:13 PM   #89 
  - If you say. I hope you are right. I wonder why the rest of the world just can't understand  Mike 03   Dec-11-08 05:49 PM   #19 
  - they DO understand it.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:06 PM   #35 
  - Bump  LisaM   Dec-11-08 05:49 PM   #21 
  - car DESIGN, however...  maxsolomon   Dec-11-08 05:49 PM   #22 
  - And who can forget  skepticscott   Dec-11-08 05:56 PM   #28 
  - There are plenty of ugly boring foreign cars...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:00 PM   #32 
  - Well that's your taste....  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 05:58 PM   #31 
  - i wouldn't be caught dead in either of those cars.  maxsolomon   Dec-11-08 06:32 PM   #57 
     - Ugly boring beemer...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:43 PM   #65 
  - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder  lastliberalintexas   Dec-11-08 06:08 PM   #37 
  - I will say that when Ford bought Volvo and Jaguar  dugaresa   Dec-11-08 09:35 PM   #144 
  - We are SO on the same page!!!!  Husb2Sparkly   Dec-11-08 05:53 PM   #26 
  - That's an interesting set of points you make.  Gregorian   Dec-11-08 05:57 PM   #29 
  - I don't have any problems with efficient cars and electric cars  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:10 PM   #42 
  - Management at the big 3 caused many of their own problems  depakid   Dec-11-08 05:57 PM   #30 
  - I agree with you  Johonny   Dec-11-08 06:22 PM   #50 
     - That's an interesting idea  depakid   Dec-11-08 06:48 PM   #69 
  - skip it... it's not worth it.  bobbolink   Dec-11-08 06:00 PM   #33 
  - Run and hide when you don't have a good response. That's what he really means. n/t  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:22 PM   #49 
  - I would have to disagree  MadHound   Dec-11-08 06:06 PM   #36 
  - No you don't know what you are talking about.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:26 PM   #52 
     - .  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:37 PM   #61 
     - Really? The evidence of my eyes, the evidence stated in the literature, it's all so much bullshit?  MadHound   Dec-12-08 06:41 AM   #152 
  - I love my Ford Focus  Blue Gardener   Dec-11-08 06:08 PM   #38 
  - This is what I have been asking:  question everything   Dec-11-08 06:09 PM   #40 
  - Then what is Detroit's fucking problem?  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:11 PM   #43 
  - That's the real question, isn't it?  skepticscott   Dec-11-08 06:19 PM   #47 
  - There is obviously some kind of problem, but those who advocate helping these companies...  JVS   Dec-11-08 08:11 PM   #127 
  - Did you READ the entire post or just make up what you wanted??  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:28 PM   #53 
     - I'm sorry I drifted off in a daydream when you were talking about your BOSS CAMARO!  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:34 PM   #59 
     - ??? Apparently you didn't read the article at all...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:48 PM   #67 
        - What article? You didn't link to an article.  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:50 PM   #74 
           - Thanks for the non-sequitir argument....what a waste of time you are...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:24 PM   #94 
              - If your points were so important, why did you need to give them second billing to  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:32 PM   #99 
                 - Dude are you drinking or something???  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:36 PM   #102 
     - read again. Doesn't answer my questions.  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:35 PM   #60 
        - Then you have a reading comprehension problem.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:50 PM   #72 
           - Your solutions are a bunch of unworkable platitudes.  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:54 PM   #76 
              - Fair Trade:  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:06 PM   #85 
                 - Does fair trade mean we get rid of all those Fords made in Mexico?  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:07 PM   #86 
                    - I think it means:  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:16 PM   #91 
  - Anecdotal accounts mean nothing  skepticscott   Dec-11-08 06:11 PM   #44 
  - And your statistics are doubtful because they come from people with agendas  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:59 PM   #81 
     - What statistics?  skepticscott   Dec-11-08 08:26 PM   #131 
  - Thank you. I'm sick to death of this "They built teh hummerz and should fail" crap.  Edweird   Dec-11-08 06:12 PM   #45 
  - I'm just going back to "clicking" those idiots now  DainBramaged   Dec-11-08 06:24 PM   #51 
     - You still around?  bamalib   Dec-11-08 06:49 PM   #71 
  - Part of it IS their problem.  flvegan   Dec-11-08 06:43 PM   #64 
  - Japan built plenty of shitty cars then too...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 06:54 PM   #75 
     - Your bitchin Camaro is a tribute to American Autos  JVS   Dec-11-08 06:57 PM   #77 
     - Whatever... you are not making any sense...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:27 PM   #95 
        - No.  LeftyMom   Dec-11-08 08:48 PM   #138 
     - Of course they did.  flvegan   Dec-11-08 07:14 PM   #90 
     - The rest of the car has held up well as well.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:30 PM   #98 
        - Good for your one shining example.  flvegan   Dec-11-08 08:10 PM   #126 
     - Get a clue.  tabasco   Dec-11-08 07:19 PM   #92 
        - Don't you realize that the fact that a babied Camaro outlives a 300ZX proves that imports suck?  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:30 PM   #97 
        - Who babies it??? It has been my daily commute car for 12 years  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:34 PM   #101 
           - I'm sure you give the car significantly more attention than most people give their cars.  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:39 PM   #103 
              - Uh.. I do the manufacturer recommended PM's and keep it clean..  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:47 PM   #107 
                 - If you want to draw conclusions concerning the reliability of different auto brands, probably.  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:50 PM   #111 
                    - Check the resales on a 1995 Z28 Camaro Convertible...  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:59 PM   #119 
                       - I think your views on "jap cars" might be something less than objective  JVS   Dec-11-08 08:05 PM   #125 
                       - My mother is a "Jap".  GOPisEvil   Dec-11-08 09:26 PM   #142 
                       - Okay, I did.  flvegan   Dec-11-08 09:57 PM   #146 
        - Between the two of us I'm sure I know more about cars AND statistics.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:40 PM   #104 
           - You say your a good mechanic. You maintain the car yourself?  JVS   Dec-11-08 07:51 PM   #112 
              - It depends but most of the time there's nothing to do but the oil so I let someone do it.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:55 PM   #116 
                 - I've seen you on TV!!!  ret5hd   Dec-12-08 07:47 AM   #153 
  - No argument here.  Jack Sprat   Dec-11-08 06:57 PM   #79 
  - There is nothing wrong with improving efficiency  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:44 PM   #105 
  - K&R  Lifetimedem   Dec-11-08 07:29 PM   #96 
  - OK I've got to get into my AMERICAN made Dodge Charger R/T  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:50 PM   #110 
  - Gotta be the stupidest thing I've read all day.  tabasco   Dec-11-08 07:48 PM   #108 
  - Apparently you don't actually pay attention to car trends.  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:54 PM   #114 
  - The point is they did change, and they stayed competitive. eom  Juniperx   Dec-12-08 01:02 PM   #154 
  - Yeah, that is blatantly stupid, isn't it?  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 08:00 PM   #120 
     - The Toyota Echo failed in the marketplace--not enough buyers for the small car  TheBorealAvenger   Dec-11-08 09:20 PM   #141 
  - If American cars are so much better, then why are the top three automakers  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 07:49 PM   #109 
  - Is there some kind of reading comprehension problem here tonight?  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 07:51 PM   #113 
  - No, but there seems to be a problem with cognitive reasoning...  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 07:55 PM   #115 
     - What's your problem???  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 08:02 PM   #123 
        - No, you didn't say exactly what I said...  Juniperx   Dec-11-08 08:32 PM   #133 
  - Toyota's asking the EU for a bailout n/t  tammywammy   Dec-11-08 10:12 PM   #148 
     - Right... that is now... that is economy based...  Juniperx   Dec-12-08 01:09 PM   #156 
  - My Brother used to have a Corvette and me a BMW 1600  Ichingcarpenter   Dec-11-08 08:00 PM   #122 
  - German cars are much better than Japanese  ddeclue   Dec-11-08 08:05 PM   #124 
  - The 1600 BMW when it came out cost $2500  Ichingcarpenter   Dec-11-08 08:20 PM   #128 
  - Our 89 Seville with a 4.5 mounted sideways kicks ass on any turn or curve  nolabels   Dec-11-08 08:20 PM   #129 
     - My Dad had two Sevilles bought one every 12 years  Ichingcarpenter   Dec-11-08 08:37 PM   #135 
        - I just kind of picked up the part about going around curves  nolabels   Dec-11-08 09:40 PM   #145 
  - good post, thanks  Two Americas   Dec-11-08 08:21 PM   #130 
  - Or maybe the factor is a recession n/t  economicgeography   Dec-11-08 08:35 PM   #134 
     - what does that mean?  Two Americas   Dec-11-08 08:39 PM   #136 
  - nice  mdmc   Dec-11-08 08:30 PM   #132 
  - The "US" automakers were in trouble long before the credit crunch  Indenturedebtor   Dec-11-08 10:06 PM   #147 
  - boy, reading this was fun, i get your point, but...  dweller   Dec-11-08 10:38 PM   #149 

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