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Reply #186: They need to convert to zero pollution motors style of green for ordinary cars [View All]

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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Dec-06-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
186. They need to convert to zero pollution motors style of green for ordinary cars


http://zeropollutionmotors.us /

Pure Driving: The Revolutionary Compressed Air Vehicle

If you can, imagine a vehicle that runs on air, achieves over 100 gas-equivalent mpg and over 90 mph, has zero to low C02 emissions, seats six, has plenty of space for luggage, cuts no safety corners, and costs no more than an average economy to mid-size vehicle.

This is the expected performance of the revolutionary compressed air vehicle that Zero Pollution Motors (ZPM) is introducing to North America. The vehicle is powered by the Compressed Air Engine (CAE) developed by Motor Development International (MDI), a 15-year old company based in Nice, France, and headed by inventor and Formula One race car engineer, Guy Negre. ZPM is the exclusive representative for MDI in the United States.


six seater orange six seater green

Meet the Air Vehicle Family

MDI has announced the model names it will use on its market models. The overall car brand will be the FlowAIR. The existing protytypes will retain their first names to now become the


One FlowAIR, Mini FlowAIR, and City FlowAIR. The urban public transportation concept vehicles will be know as the Multi FlowAIR.

Competitive Price

We estimate the cost of purchasing a six-seater, 75hp Air Car will be approximately $17,800, proving that buying “green” doesn’t have to cost more. Not only is the price amazingly affordable, but it will cost you up to five times less in fuel consumption than an equivalent gasoline powered car. The Air Car is a totally new breed of cars entirely conceived to achieve low prices:

Ingenious design. The car’s modular, advanced materials and manufacturing techniques simplify manufacture.

No dealer’s = no middleman costs. In our business model, your Air Car is delivered to you directly from the local/regional factory, eliminating any dealer mark-up and shipping costs.

Low fuel costs. You can get an equivalent of 106 MPG. It can cost as little as $2 to refill your tank with air.

Simple maintenance. All parts will be supplied by the manufacturer to a network of licensed repair shops that will simply replace defective parts. It is easy, fast and first class since all parts are new.

Reduced maintenance anyway. The Air Car requires no cooling circuit and uses no hot gases.

No combustion = no residues. An oil change is only necessary every 31,000 miles!Vehicle Specifications

Length - 13.4 ft
Width - 5.97 ft
Height - 5.74 ft
Seating - 6 seats
Trunk volume - 35 cubic ft
Weight - 1874 lbs
Engine - 6 Cyl.
Power - 75 hp
Max Speed - 96 mph*
Mileage - 106 mpg*
Range - 848 miles (8 gal tank) *
Co2 - 0.141 lbs/mile (at speeds >35mph; zero emissions at <35mph)

* estimated performance and subject to change

Standard Features will include:

Computer based screen display of vehicle control parameters
Full CFC-free A/C
Airbags
Fully reclining driver’s seat
Power windows, door locks and mirrors
Deluxe AM/FM stereo with cassette and cd player, optional GPS
Rear window defogger
Concealed spare tire
All season 13-inch radial tires
A cold weather package will be available

Engine and Transmission Characteristics include:

Horsepower: 75
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Oil volume and oil change interval: 0.8 liter at 50,000 miles
Engine mount: Rear
Transmission: Automatic, Continually Variable Transmission. Rear wheel drive.
Suspension: Front coil spring, rear pneumatic.
Steering mechanism: Rack and pinion.
Chassis and body materials: Aluminum and fiber glass.
Tanks: Thermoplastic lining and carbon fiber.

Fuel Characteristics:

Compressed Air: 3200 ft3 @ 4500 psi
Charger: On board 5.5 kwh 110/220 v compressor generating 812 ft3 /hr.




High Fuel Economy

The Compressed Air Vehicles’s revolutionary compressed air engine is expected to achieve a fuel economy of a remarkable 106 miles per gallon. When the energy used to heat compressed air entering the engine is accounted for, and average driving speeds factored, the average economy is expected to be 106 gasoline-equivalent mpg. See How the CAE Engine Works. Compare the Compressed Air Vehicle’s fuel economy with those vehicles listed as “The Greenest Vehicles of 2007” by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (Source: www.greenercars.com ).
Make and Model Specifications Emission Standarda MPG:
City MPG: Hwy Green
Score
TOYOTA PRIUS 1.5L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 3 / PZEV 48 45 53
HONDA CIVIC HYBRID 1.3L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 2 / PZEV 40 45 51
SMART FORTWO CONVERTIBLE/COUPE 1.0L 3, auto stk

Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 33 41 49
HONDA FIT 1.5L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 27 34 43
FORD ESCAPE HYBRID 2.3L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 3 / PZEV 34 30 42
HYUNDAI SONATA 2.4L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 21 30 39

SUBARU OUTBACK WAGON
2.5L 4, auto stk 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / PZEV 20 26 37
NISSAN ROGUE 2.5L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 22 27 37
TOYOTA TACOMA 2.7L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 19 25 34
TOYOTA SIENNA 3.5L 6, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 17 23 33

CHEVROLET TAHOE HYBRID C1500
6.0L 8, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 21 22 28
NISSAN FRONTIER 4.0L 6, auto 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 14 19 27

denotes premium gasoline.
“auto CVT” denotes continuously
variable automatic transmission.
“auto stk” denotes
manually adjustable automatic transmission.
a A listing
with two emission standards (e.g., Tier 2 bin
3 / PZEV) denotes a single vehicle carrying both
a federal and California emission certification.
Green Scores for such listings reflect the cleaner
of the two certifications.

Refueling: The Air Vehicle can be refilled with Air at home or in your parking garage by plugging it into a normal power outlet. The compressed Air tank is also automatically refilling when driving at higher speeds.

World’s Cleanest Car

To drive the world’s cleanest car is no longer wishful thinking. The Compressed Air Vehicle is the first affordable and accessible clean car. It brings us our dream: to drive pollution-free and free of fuel dependency.

At Lower Speeds: Since the Compressed Air Vehicle is running exclusively on compressed air, it emits only air - zero pollution. The air expelled from the tail pipe is actually cleaner than the air used to fill the tank. This is because before compression, the air is run through carbon filters to eliminate dirt, dust, humidity, and other urban air impurities that could hamper the engine’s performance.

At Higher Speeds: At speeds over 35mph the Compressed Air Vehicle uses small amounts of fuel–either gasoline, propane, ethanol or bio fuels–to heat air inside a heating chamber as it enters the engine. This process produces emissions of only 0.141lbs of CO2 per mile. That is up to 4 times less than the average vehicle and more than two times less than the cleanest vehicle available today. (Toyota Prius 07 Emissions: 0.34 lbs of CO2 per mile. Source: www.hybridcars.com )

See How the CAE Engine Works

The Compressed Air Vehicle is designed to make a major difference in urban areas especially, where motor vehicles are the single largest contributor to ground-level ozone, a major component of smog. Each year, the cars we drive emit millions of tons of pollutants, contributing heavily to global warming and acid rain. Only a clean technology that is affordable to the many can slow down and eventually - when a critical mass is reached on a global basis - reverse this lethal evolution.

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  Frontpage of today's Detroit Free Press ... WOW! Bozita  Dec-05-08 02:49 PM   #0 
   That's the way to do it. Shove it right down their throats.  acmavm   Dec-05-08 02:51 PM   #1 
   Yep  malaise   Dec-05-08 04:25 PM   #16 
   Agreed. n/t  OhioChick   Dec-05-08 10:08 PM   #75 
   the so-called 'big 3' never invested in America, or at least not in the later years  ixion   Dec-05-08 02:56 PM   #2 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-05-08 03:08 PM   #5 
   of course not... people out of work is bad, however  ixion   Dec-05-08 04:05 PM   #13 
   Schools next?  Billy Burnett   Dec-05-08 05:38 PM   #24 
   Schools are not for profit like these companies.  aviationpm   Dec-06-08 08:04 PM   #231 
   Just being stupid.  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 07:18 PM   #59 
   you seem to think throwing money at the problem will make it better  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:34 AM   #108 
      Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-06-08 08:44 AM   #113 
      I am not sure withholding money is a better solution  Gore1FL   Dec-06-08 02:34 PM   #190 
      I'll tell you a little secret. either way, we're all going to pay.  notadmblnd   Dec-06-08 03:44 PM   #204 
         Very true and worthy of it's own thread. It'll hit locally, too--  blondeatlast   Dec-06-08 04:18 PM   #212 
         You're right  du_grad   Dec-07-08 02:13 AM   #261 
      really thats what they said with Chrysler bailout and the Mexican bailout  grantcart   Dec-06-08 03:47 PM   #205 
      The way out of debt  dglow   Dec-06-08 07:58 PM   #229 
   Oh, ok, destroy the company, who cares about the workers  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:24 AM   #86 
      and the company is going to fail  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:35 AM   #109 
         Please tell me where they will find work elswhere.  marn999   Dec-06-08 09:20 AM   #118 
         please show me where we're guaranteed a job in the constitution,  ixion   Dec-06-08 09:31 AM   #119 
            You definitely on the wrong  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 10:07 AM   #126 
            Libertarian  Doremus   Dec-06-08 01:11 PM   #181 
            So true, so true...  LithosLead Moderator   Dec-07-08 01:19 AM   #260 
            Then find them another job, don't support making a product that  treestar   Dec-06-08 03:12 PM   #194 
               There are no jobs  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 04:59 PM   #218 
                  Maybe every single person doesn't need to have their own car...  nankerphelge   Dec-06-08 08:23 PM   #234 
                     That is taking reality into account  treestar   Dec-07-08 12:16 AM   #256 
                     In case you haven't noticed...  du_grad   Dec-07-08 02:30 AM   #262 
            You can argue that it IS guaranteed in the Constition.  OwnedByFerrets   Dec-06-08 10:43 AM   #138 
            also in the bill of rights  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:55 AM   #144 
            who libertarian of you.  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:53 AM   #142 
         Sure they will, you keep believing that  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 10:53 AM   #143 
         There is no work 'elsewhere'. Aren't you paying any attention? We lost  acmavm   Dec-06-08 11:12 AM   #152 
         Where will the workers find work? What about workers in the dealerships?  blondeatlast   Dec-06-08 04:19 PM   #213 
   how about employ them to tear down the hummer factory  mikelgb   Dec-05-08 04:10 PM   #14 
   Hummer makes about 60,000 a year, why not tear down the Toyota Tundra  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:26 AM   #88 
   allow me to remind you  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:47 AM   #111 
   Comparing your phrases to those used byy the wrong side isn't calling you a freeper.  blondeatlast   Dec-06-08 04:21 PM   #214 
   It would be cheaper to pay 5 millin people their lost paychecks  formercia   Dec-06-08 10:49 AM   #139 
   I can't let you get away with that remark.  Joe Fields   Dec-05-08 03:16 PM   #7 
   No, they built themselves a oligopoly  ixion   Dec-05-08 04:04 PM   #12 
   I'm with you on this  anigbrowl   Dec-05-08 05:38 PM   #23 
   They could just copy Honda, Lexus, and Toyota couldn't they?  DUlover2909   Dec-06-08 04:52 AM   #83 
   Toyota, Honda, etc. don't make cars people want to drive that  Kalyke   Dec-06-08 10:12 AM   #131 
      Ha! That's wrong. Those are the cars people DO want to drive.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:10 AM   #150 
      I was in the Hill Country Thanksgiving...  awoke_in_2003   Dec-06-08 05:50 PM   #220 
         A good third of the elderly or more aren't McCain supporters, thankfully.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 06:08 PM   #223 
      So why is Toyota the biggest selling car in the U.S.? World-wide perhaps?  VPStoltz   Dec-06-08 12:19 PM   #171 
      Honestly? Because it's the conventional wisdom  BleedinHeart   Dec-06-08 10:07 PM   #246 
      So why are there waiting lists for the Prius? n/t  mantis49   Dec-06-08 01:40 PM   #185 
      i drive a honda, so do 5 of my friends of the top of my head  Tunkamerica   Dec-07-08 05:49 AM   #263 
   "I appreciate that there were business reasons why GM felt the car wouldn't be profitable "  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:32 AM   #90 
   Wow, that is a very selfish outlook  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:18 PM   #27 
   that's great... let them bail them out  ixion   Dec-05-08 06:38 PM   #36 
      Okay, since the auto industry in responsible for aproximately 1 in 10 jobs  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:43 PM   #41 
         Surely you know 1000 people. Can you name 100 who work in the auto industry?  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:18 AM   #157 
            Out of a 1000 people I know...  Chan790   Dec-06-08 03:35 PM   #200 
               I've owned many, many American made cars, which is why I know they're inferior.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 03:43 PM   #203 
                  Seeya in the bread line.  Chan790   Dec-06-08 04:45 PM   #216 
                     No, you'll be there without me.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 05:58 PM   #222 
   OH and the transplants in the Southern tier right to work states have?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:28 AM   #89 
   The automobile industry built America?  Seldona   Dec-06-08 04:40 AM   #82 
   You laugh, but tell me what's so far fetched about that notion?  Joe Fields   Dec-06-08 10:04 PM   #245 
   What was the best selling model of car in 1776?  Seldona   Dec-07-08 12:22 AM   #257 
      Great point!  Tunkamerica   Dec-07-08 06:03 AM   #264 
   Uh yeah!! And WWII?  muntrv   Dec-06-08 11:13 PM   #251 
   (Insert jingoistic claim here)  JVS   Dec-07-08 12:05 AM   #255 
   No, not even close to ten percent of the jobs are tied to the American auto industry.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:06 AM   #148 
      Ten percent is a conservative estimate. Some say close to fourteen percent.  Joe Fields   Dec-06-08 10:03 PM   #244 
   WRONG, WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG.  Festivito   Dec-05-08 04:22 PM   #15 
   These people that think their livlihoods don't depend on Automakers  notadmblnd   Dec-06-08 04:11 PM   #210 
   Amen. If you look at how bad things are in Detroit now, that is the handiwork of the big 3  JVS   Dec-05-08 05:25 PM   #21 
   The auto companies are planning to let 20,000-30,000 workers go ...  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 06:56 PM   #48 
      Nationalize oil, from who, the Russians and Saudis?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:36 AM   #91 
         People in Iraq are dead because of LIES ...  defendandprotect   Dec-06-08 12:46 PM   #175 
            You are just too funny. Defend and protect what?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 07:32 PM   #227 
               Where's the Alaska oil going--?? Not to US -- Will be shipped out --!!  defendandprotect   Dec-06-08 11:27 PM   #252 
                  Yes, where is it going, why don't you tell us, all wise sage.  DainBramaged   Dec-07-08 09:14 AM   #265 
                  OK, I KNOW you don't have the guts to respond, so I will for you  DainBramaged   Dec-07-08 10:19 AM   #266 
                     OIL- not crude -- still be shipped out ... US doesn't get it --  defendandprotect   Dec-07-08 09:06 PM   #267 
                        (sigh) nice try. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ LOSER  DainBramaged   Dec-08-08 11:33 PM   #269 
   Never invested in American?  BreatheOnMe   Dec-05-08 05:46 PM   #25 
   Those Union Jobs are worth saving. And if they go, your job is next. nt  TheGoldenRule   Dec-05-08 05:53 PM   #26 
   too late... the company I was working for failed in 2007... no bailout was offered  ixion   Dec-05-08 06:37 PM   #35 
      So what, you're jealous that hard working Union workers may get to keep their jobs?  TheGoldenRule   Dec-05-08 06:45 PM   #42 
      Workers can keep their jobs if US buys plants -- build ELECTRIC CARS ---  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 06:48 PM   #44 
      They would be layed off for a long time  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:52 PM   #47 
      BS -- those cars are ready -- they were on the roads in late '90's in CA --  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 06:58 PM   #49 
      oh no !!!!!! electric cars are here-----chevy volt  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:30 AM   #134 
         Right, Californians wanted to buy everyone of the Electric Cars ...  defendandprotect   Dec-06-08 12:43 PM   #174 
            Protect the profits for their Big Oil buddies is more like it  Lorien   Dec-06-08 01:27 PM   #182 
               Absolutely --  defendandprotect   Dec-06-08 03:29 PM   #198 
      And therein lies the problems. Americans are so self-serving-righteous.  VPStoltz   Dec-06-08 12:24 PM   #172 
      You can't build something  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 07:59 PM   #65 
      What's looney is to believe that it's at all sensible to keep building gas  Lorien   Dec-06-08 01:29 PM   #183 
      Prius production is only 7% of the total of cars and trucks Toyota builds  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:40 AM   #92 
      not jealous, I just don't see the point  ixion   Dec-05-08 07:16 PM   #57 
      A tech worker can go  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 08:01 PM   #67 
      Tech workers? Pshaw.  ContinentalOp   Dec-05-08 08:07 PM   #70 
      Yep...  awoke_in_2003   Dec-06-08 05:58 PM   #221 
      You seem to have lost alot of jobs  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 07:56 PM   #64 
      start-ups come and go...and they fail often  ixion   Dec-05-08 10:21 PM   #77 
         Not a problem  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 09:15 AM   #116 
            gee, that's productive  ixion   Dec-06-08 09:32 AM   #120 
               Just as productive as having a  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 09:47 AM   #123 
                  so you got your wish...  ixion   Dec-06-08 12:53 PM   #178 
      Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-05-08 10:20 PM   #76 
      you miss my point... it's not about me, but typical of most professions  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:38 AM   #110 
      A truer statment has  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 09:16 AM   #117 
      You don't understand  vanboggie   Dec-06-08 09:04 AM   #115 
      I understand why you feel that way  life long demo   Dec-06-08 12:51 PM   #177 
   Well, GM killed the trains and trolleys, Ford was a Nazi and a racist and Chrysler  DonEBrook   Dec-05-08 06:27 PM   #31 
   GM also crushed THOUSANDS of electric cars in Calif --!!!  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 07:00 PM   #50 
   Yep, they sure did!  DonEBrook   Dec-05-08 07:40 PM   #60 
   Get over it already, and they are OLD OLD technology  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:20 AM   #84 
      I'm for saving the auto makers, certainly  Bluenorthwest   Dec-06-08 08:53 AM   #114 
      Trains are old technology? Yep they sure as fuck are and still far more efficient than  DonEBrook   Dec-06-08 11:23 AM   #159 
      Isn't GM already invested in trains?  stillcool47   Dec-06-08 07:58 PM   #230 
   What the hell do Nazis  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 08:03 PM   #69 
   And what year are you living in???? Get over it you were NOT born then  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:43 AM   #93 
   You should have quit smoking that shit before it worked its magic.  DonEBrook   Dec-06-08 11:24 AM   #161 
      You should go back to sniffing glue. Your talking points don't work around here.  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 11:42 AM   #165 
   My father grew up in Detroit and he was already disjusted with the auto makers back in the 60's.  VPStoltz   Dec-06-08 12:28 PM   #173 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-05-08 06:28 PM   #32 
   I don't hate American workers, I happen to be one  ixion   Dec-05-08 06:36 PM   #34 
      It's over a million jobs.  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 06:42 PM   #39 
      at least that many were shed in the dot com burst... one of mine among them  ixion   Dec-05-08 07:17 PM   #58 
         You're not thinking logically  gizmo1979   Dec-05-08 07:55 PM   #62 
            gee, I'm glad you think so highly of tech jobs...  ixion   Dec-05-08 08:55 PM   #73 
               I didn't make my point very clearly.  gizmo1979   Dec-06-08 10:10 AM   #129 
      You are a bitter jealous person, that's what your problem is.  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:47 AM   #94 
         look, I'm happy to debate this with you...  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:52 AM   #112 
            Sure, I think, since you are so sensitive to arguing about people you know nothing about  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 10:52 AM   #141 
   They built cars for Exxon-Mobil....let them bail them out --  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 06:50 PM   #46 
   May I suggest a modified bailout  Jack Rabbit   Dec-05-08 07:01 PM   #51 
   and the trillions to the banks are ok because, well, the decision has already been made? please  natrat   Dec-05-08 10:26 PM   #78 
   of course not... I didn't support those bailouts, either  ixion   Dec-06-08 07:32 AM   #107 
      Have you noticed that very serious recession were in?  High Plains   Dec-06-08 09:35 PM   #241 
   I guess jobs and technology aren't an investment in America?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:22 AM   #85 
   It's not the workers as much as it is the decisions to give the green light on crappy products.  HypnoToad   Dec-06-08 06:22 AM   #106 
   3 to 5 million American jobs is not investing in America to you?  Kalyke   Dec-06-08 10:09 AM   #127 
   good idea...kill off the auto industry when they make  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:20 AM   #132 
   Agreed.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 10:58 AM   #147 
   But guess what? that money comes back here. where do you think the money  notadmblnd   Dec-06-08 04:00 PM   #208 
   you look funny without a nose! n/t  frogcycle   Dec-06-08 12:00 PM   #169 
   You have no idea what you are talking about  BeatleBoot   Dec-06-08 12:53 PM   #179 
   they certainly did help America...read some history books......  ElsewheresDaughter   Dec-06-08 01:01 PM   #180 
   Who do you think kept the economy going after 911? Or we can goe even further back to WWII  notadmblnd   Dec-06-08 03:28 PM   #197 
   I'll put my vehicle up against what you're driving any day.  notadmblnd   Dec-06-08 03:36 PM   #201 
   Ever hear of World War Two?  BobRossi   Dec-06-08 05:03 PM   #219 
   Yes...  nankerphelge   Dec-06-08 08:19 PM   #232 
   kinda taking a crooked line looking at it.  PatrynXX   Dec-06-08 08:53 PM   #236 
   AMEN.  StreetKnowledge   Dec-05-08 02:56 PM   #3 
   I would be willing to bet the UAW paid for that ad. A nice touch, but after watching the two days of  sarcasmo   Dec-05-08 03:03 PM   #4 
   It's an editorial, not an ad.  LisaM   Dec-05-08 03:25 PM   #8 
   I bet they still paid for it.  sarcasmo   Dec-05-08 06:19 PM   #28 
      You dont pay for an editorial  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:24 PM   #30 
      In the words of Michael Corleone, "Now who's being naive, Kay?"  JVS   Dec-05-08 07:48 PM   #61 
      maybe you're not familiar with where newspapers get their revenue  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:24 AM   #160 
      You are from Michigan and you are bitter towards the UAW?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:51 AM   #97 
   It WASN'T an ad and NO ONE paid for it?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:49 AM   #95 
   Why not provide a temporary $3,000 subsidy for the buyers of American cars?  screembloodymurder   Dec-05-08 03:15 PM   #6 
   Is your SUV an American product?  LisaM   Dec-05-08 03:27 PM   #9 
   What's "an American car"?  Tesha   Dec-05-08 05:35 PM   #22 
   The big Three do that every day in rebates  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:52 AM   #98 
   If we're going to do it we should own them 100%  high density   Dec-05-08 03:28 PM   #10 
   Why don't we OWN Toyota and Honda too? Their sales are in the toilet  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:54 AM   #99 
      Maybe because our tax payments go into the US Treasury  tabasco   Dec-06-08 03:57 PM   #207 
         So you're saying that the Japanese transplants shouldn't be Nationalized?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 07:46 PM   #228 
            The Big 3 didn't go to Japan asking for a loan.  tabasco   Dec-06-08 08:59 PM   #238 
               And you don't know anything about Japan propping up Toyota, Honda and Nissan???  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 09:37 PM   #242 
                  Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-06-08 10:34 PM   #249 
                     Then why do you look in the mirror every day?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 10:46 PM   #250 
   I used to be for the bailout  gaspee   Dec-05-08 03:50 PM   #11 
   It's a loan, not a bailout. n/t  LisaM   Dec-05-08 06:40 PM   #38 
   It's a bailout. That's what government loans like this are, and what they're called.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:30 AM   #164 
      Wow, do you pay your gifts back with interest?  1gobluedem   Dec-06-08 08:49 PM   #235 
   I have a 2002 Ford Focus that has never had any service done  mycritters2   Dec-05-08 08:01 PM   #66 
   I'm sorry your experience was so bad, but I must say  brazenlyliberal   Dec-05-08 08:02 PM   #68 
   I think it's the model  gaspee   Dec-05-08 08:30 PM   #71 
      Yeah, I really do feel for you.  brazenlyliberal   Dec-05-08 09:38 PM   #74 
      Sounds to me like you should be angry at the "repair guys" for not fixing it right the first time.  madmom   Dec-06-08 11:09 AM   #149 
         Why not Dodge for not making it right the first time?  JVS   Dec-06-08 11:17 AM   #154 
            Everything is not always perfect the first time and so needs to be made right. The repair guys took  madmom   Dec-06-08 12:03 PM   #170 
               It's Dodge's fault  gaspee   Dec-06-08 01:54 PM   #187 
                  If it was recalls you shouldn't have tp pay a dime!  madmom   Dec-06-08 02:38 PM   #191 
                     Too much of it wasn't though  gaspee   Dec-06-08 04:49 PM   #217 
   Sounds exactly like the Fix Or Repair Daily F-150 I had.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:28 AM   #163 
   Ford Ranger broke down the day I drove it off the lot.  tabasco   Dec-06-08 04:28 PM   #215 
      Many of those dealers don't even worry about servicing cars they sold.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 08:21 PM   #233 
         There is a Chevy dealer where I live now that is great.  tabasco   Dec-06-08 08:56 PM   #237 
   finding good mechanics  bongbong   Dec-06-08 03:08 PM   #193 
   Beautiful. Too bad no one will want to buy a "souvenir" copy of it.  ogneopasno   Dec-05-08 04:27 PM   #17 
   K & fookin' R ...  AzDar   Dec-05-08 05:18 PM   #18 
   The big 3 produce mostly crap, yet the health of the unions is imperative.  Peake   Dec-05-08 05:20 PM   #19 
   Yes, they did, and I know it first hand  Nexus7   Dec-05-08 07:13 PM   #56 
   The Big 3 produce crap? Back your statement up. Oh wait why should you  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:57 AM   #100 
      The Big 3 Produce GLOBAL-WARMING, AIR-POLLUTING, RESOURCE-DEPLETING Crap!!!!  Herman74   Dec-06-08 10:05 AM   #125 
         So does every other automaker...what's your point?  jakefrep   Dec-06-08 10:09 AM   #128 
         Tool  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 10:49 AM   #140 
   Does anyone else find it disturbing that the Detroit media is the mouthpiece of the big 3?  JVS   Dec-05-08 05:23 PM   #20 
   That is just dumb  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:23 PM   #29 
   Have you been to detroit over the last 20 years? It's been dying with the big 3  JVS   Dec-05-08 06:28 PM   #33 
      Actualy I go to Detroit all the time  revolve   Dec-05-08 06:38 PM   #37 
      The same thing that happened in Pittsburgh. Eventually the city would develop an economy...  JVS   Dec-05-08 06:43 PM   #40 
         Precisely - briefly visited Pittsburgh in the late seventies and it was falling apart. Went back for  apocalypsehow   Dec-05-08 07:09 PM   #55 
            And how many years did it take Pittsburgh to recover???  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 05:59 AM   #101 
            When the steel industry in Pittsburgh died there were other jobs out there to be had, in case you  madmom   Dec-06-08 11:19 AM   #158 
      It's been "dying" with the purposeful help of Big 3 ....  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 07:03 PM   #52 
   It's disgusting  HEyHEY   Dec-05-08 06:49 PM   #45 
   Agree -- let US take over plants -- build electric cars --  defendandprotect   Dec-05-08 07:04 PM   #54 
   OK, I've had enough of your "meme"  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 06:01 AM   #102 
   The Freep is tied to the mast of the big 3  AngryAmish   Dec-06-08 09:39 AM   #121 
   Why is that a bad thing?  jakefrep   Dec-06-08 10:12 AM   #130 
      I have to explain to you why a corporate directed media is a bad thing?  JVS   Dec-06-08 10:33 PM   #248 
         Since when does having a clue what they're writing about = "corporate-directed media"?  jakefrep   Dec-06-08 11:45 PM   #253 
            Since when is being the big three's stooge knowing what they're writing about?  JVS   Dec-07-08 12:00 AM   #254 
   This resembles the "hurt the board of ed by defeating their budget" arguement.  jazzjunkysue   Dec-05-08 06:47 PM   #43 
   You are wasting your time, there is a cadre of people here who's EXPRESS purpose  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 06:03 AM   #103 
   Late to the game, but proud to kick and rec nonetheless. n/t  ColbertWatcher   Dec-05-08 07:03 PM   #53 
   Well done.  BrklynLiberal   Dec-05-08 07:56 PM   #63 
   END OF THE ROAD: IS THE AUTO INDUSTRY DEAD???  BrklynLiberal   Dec-05-08 08:32 PM   #72 
   America needs a new vision that involves alternative energy and transportation  windoe   Dec-06-08 02:13 AM   #79 
   New cool designs? Is that what you are about, new cool designs???  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 06:04 AM   #104 
   they had to take part of the r&d research money to keep the industry afloat  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:35 AM   #135 
   1,000 copies of this edition of the DFP were hand delivered to all Congresscritters on the Hill  Bozita   Dec-06-08 02:14 AM   #80 
   k+r  Blue_Tires   Dec-06-08 02:48 AM   #81 
   Ben Stein (of all people) says "Rescue them PRONTO"  judasdisney   Dec-06-08 05:24 AM   #87 
   Why is Congress anti-labor but pro bank and Wall Street?  antimatter98   Dec-06-08 05:49 AM   #96 
   HEAR HEAR  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 06:13 AM   #105 
      Just an off-topic curiosity  DirtyJersey   Dec-06-08 06:24 PM   #225 
         There aren't any longer  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 07:23 PM   #226 
   I vote to Loan them the Money.  BlueJazz   Dec-06-08 09:39 AM   #122 
   Nice!  ellie   Dec-06-08 09:54 AM   #124 
   simple solutions to resolve a problem?  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:25 AM   #133 
   Although I HATE the phrase UNPATRIOTIC, I believe it fits  OwnedByFerrets   Dec-06-08 10:39 AM   #136 
   Kudos to the Free Press. I'm sure the smug assholes  sufrommich   Dec-06-08 10:39 AM   #137 
   yes ---i just found out we do not have a "right" to be employed  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 10:58 AM   #146 
      It's the old "why should a factory rat have a good job when  sufrommich   Dec-06-08 11:14 AM   #153 
      We could eat dirt?  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 11:17 AM   #155 
   they're just sucking up to their classified ad customer base  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 10:55 AM   #145 
   really....  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 11:11 AM   #151 
   Wow truthiness, I am impressed.  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 11:18 AM   #156 
   All of which, if true, means nothing in the marketplace as long as people think they're crap.  DonEBrook   Dec-06-08 11:27 AM   #162 
   Keep spouting those Right wing talking points  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 11:44 AM   #167 
      Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Dec-06-08 12:49 PM   #176 
   If that were true, the Big Three wouldn't be on death's doorstep.  TexasObserver   Dec-06-08 11:43 AM   #166 
   But what happens to millions of workers until then, states are already running out of unemployment  madmom   Dec-06-08 11:48 AM   #168 
   Just return from the 'Mother Ship'.....? Again....  Broadslidin   Dec-06-08 02:21 PM   #189 
   Lying will not make your case.  tabasco   Dec-06-08 04:17 PM   #211 
   Then why  skepticscott   Dec-06-08 09:06 PM   #239 
   And what about their workers? Tough shit, eh?  High Plains   Dec-06-08 09:45 PM   #243 
   Sometimes desperate times do in fact call for desperate measures.  The Animator   Dec-06-08 01:30 PM   #184 
   They need to convert to zero pollution motors style of green for ordinary cars  sce56   Dec-06-08 01:51 PM   #186 
   GM: Innovation sacrificed to profits --- NY Times article today.  antimatter98   Dec-06-08 02:20 PM   #188 
   clueless opinions on this topic  bongbong   Dec-06-08 03:00 PM   #192 
   please do`t blind people with the truth  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 03:26 PM   #196 
   There's a few lessons the Big 3 should have learned from the Japanese...  AntiFascist   Dec-06-08 03:55 PM   #206 
   At the moment, saving the industry is more important than the agenda  Still Sensible   Dec-06-08 03:23 PM   #195 
   worked when we loaned Chrysler money  madrchsod   Dec-06-08 03:31 PM   #199 
   They need to force the Big 3 to produce real and futuristic products, not crap.  WritingIsMyReligion   Dec-06-08 03:37 PM   #202 
   Maybe they'll do the same now for homelessness?  bobbolink   Dec-06-08 04:02 PM   #209 
   Perhaps these guys should be nationalized.  PM Martin   Dec-06-08 06:09 PM   #224 
   So should the Republican party  DainBramaged   Dec-06-08 09:25 PM   #240 
   Outstanding!!!  spindrifter   Dec-06-08 10:30 PM   #247 
   Inaction bred the great depression  Radical Logik   Dec-07-08 12:23 AM   #258 
   I cannot beleive this shight  painter08   Dec-07-08 12:37 AM   #259 
   Yeesh. Freeper Press is all of a sudden in favor of government spending?  TOJ   Dec-07-08 09:15 PM   #268 
 

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