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Reply #311: Henry J. Rybka was the Secret Service agent who asked ''Why?'' [View All]

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
311. Henry J. Rybka was the Secret Service agent who asked ''Why?''


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/171830/secret_service_jfk /

Here's what Vincent M. Palamara has reported:



AGENTS GO ON RECORD:

JFK DID NOT ORDER SECRET SERVICE OFF DALLAS LIMOUSINE
KENNEDY NEVER ORDERED SECURITY STAND-DOWN OR BUBBLE-TOP REMOVAL
PRESIDENTIAL SECURITY MYSTERIOUSLY "STRIPPED" AND OTHERWISE
COMPROMISED FOR FATAL MOTORCADE
SECRET SERVICE IGNORING OF ADVANCE WARNING OF THREATS DOCUMENTED

"HISTORY" CORRECTED 35 YEARS LATER BY PRIMARY SOURCES


by Vincent M. Palamara
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998

(EDITOR'S NOTE: The following news story, by historian and researcher Vincent M. Palamara, sets the record straight regarding the long-repeated falsehood that President John F. Kennedy was somehow responsible for his own assassination because he ordered Secret Service agents off his open car and otherwise fatally undermined the performance of his bodyguards. Palamara, widely recognized as the preeminent expert on Secret Service personnel and procedures during the Kennedy era, has secured the first on-the-record comments from agents in the presidential detail of November 22, 1963 and other primary sources.)

These mutually corroborating stories shed important new light on the conspiracy to murder the president, and put an end to groundless, designed-to-mislead speculation that has plagued the assassination investigation from its inception and otherwise contributed to the obstruction of justice. C.R.D.)

The following former Secret Service agents told me in on-the-record interviews, and in no uncertain terms, that JFK never ordered the agents off the rear of his car, was not difficult to protect and was in fact extremely cooperative with the Secret Service:
    Gerald A. Behn (chief of JFK's detail),
    Floyd M. Boring (#2 JFK detail agent),
    Arthur L. Godfrey (one of three shift leaders on the Texas trip),
    Donald J. Lawton (on the Dallas JFK detail),
    Rufus W. Youngblood (#2 agent on Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson's detail),
    Samuel A. Kinney (driver of the Secret Service follow-up car in Dallas),
    Robert I. Bouck (head of the Protective Research Section),
    Robert Lilley (a member of JFK's detail from election night until one month before Dallas),
    Maurice G. Martineau (agent in charge of the Chicago office) and
    John Norris (a member of the Uniformed Division)


Agents off the rear of limo

Representative responses by former Secret Service agents and others to my question, "Did JFK ever 'order agents around', including having them dismount the rear area of the limousine?" were as follows:

Kinney (interviewed on 10/19/92, 3/5/94, 4/15/94) -- "Absolutely, positively no. He (JFK) had nothing to do with that, no, never ... President Kennedy was one of the easiest presidents to protect ... ninety nine percent of the agents would agree."

Lilley (interviewed 9/27/92, 9/21/93, 6/7/96) -- "I'm sure he did not. He was very cooperative with us once he became president. Basically, (his attitude was) 'whatever you guys want is the way it will be.'"

Godfrey (interviewed 5/30/96, 6/7/96; correspondence 11/24/97) -- (JFK) never ordered us to do anything. He was a very nice man ... cooperative. He never asked me to have my shift leave the limo when we were working it."

Behn (interviewed three times on 9/27/92) -- "I don't remember Kennedy ever saying that he didn't want anybody on the back of his car. I think if you watch the newsreel pictures and whatnot, you'll find agents on there from time to time."

A photo from the Tampa Tribune of November 19, 1963 -- three days before the assassination -- clearly supports Behn's contention. It depicts agents Donald Lawton and Charles Zboril on the rear of JFK's limousine in both urban and suburban areas, during a politically significant, high-visibility presidential visit to Florida.

One of the earliest and arguably most influential (to this day) misrepresentation of JFK's relationship to the Secret Service, and in particular to agents on his various details, can be found in "Death of a President," by William Manchester. One passage in particular exemplifies the lengths to which "respected" historians such as Manchester have gone, knowingly or otherwise, to falsify the record.

"Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18 (1963), just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to 'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't offended. There had been no animosity in the remark." (1988 Harper & Row/Perennial Library edition, pp. 37-38)

When asked to comment on the record about that portion of "Death of a President," Boring said that the statement attributed to him by Manchester is, to say the least, inaccurate. "He quotes me?" Boring asked incredulously. "I never told him (that JFK ordered agents off the limousine). (JFK) was a very nice man, never interfered with us at all." Indeed, Boring stated that he was not interviewed by Manchester-- a fact that is confirmed by the book's source notes.

Until publication of this article and its correction of the record by first-person sources, the Manchester-originating falsehoods, among others relating to the assassination in general and Secret Service in Dallas in particular, have been accepted and repeated as fact by a mainstream media bereft of alternative testimony.

The assessments of JFK as a "security-friendly" chief executive were confirmed during on-the-record interviews with JFK aide Dave Powers and White House photographer Cecil Stoughton (both in the Dallas motorcade), and with June Kellerman, widow of Roy H. Kellerman, the #3 agent on the JFK detail.


Removal of the bubble-top

Another controversy with direct bearing on the criminal investigation of the assassination relates to the origin of the order to remove the bubble-top from the presidential limousine. Kinney adamantly told me that he, and not the president, was solely responsible for the removal of the presidential limousine's clear roof on November 22, 1963. However, in testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations, agents Kellerman and Win Lawson spoke of their involvement in that critical decision.

Kinney passed away on July 21, 1997. This correspondent cannot be definitive regarding the number of individuals involved in the decision to remove the bubble-top. However, based upon thorough investigation of the issue, the strong possibility exists that Lawson, acting through Kellerman and/or Boring, either gave the order or was represented as having given it.


Reduction of motorcycle outriders

The frequently repeated story that JFK ordered a reduction in the presence of motorcycle outriders in the Dallas motorcade is in need of correction. Although presidential motorcades on all prior stops on the November, 1963 Texas trip normally included anywhere from three to six cyclists on each side of the JFK limousine (a fact confirmed by numerous press and official White House films and photographs), the plans for Dallas were altered by Secret Service officials to give JFK just four non-flanking outriders.

Thus the presidential limousine was opened to crossfire, and the perceptions of professionally trained eye- and ear-witnesses were eliminated from the scene of the crime. Former agents Kinney and Godfrey confirmed that JFK never gave direct or implicit instructions to remove motorcycles from security positions adjacent to his car. Further, films and photographs of prior Texas trip stops clearly show a heavy motorcycle outrider presence during motorcades, up to and including the Fort Worth motorcade of November 21, 1963.

The origin of the order to strip presidential security by reducing motorcycle-based security remains mysterious, and carries sinister implications.


Security Stripping

Could Dallas have been deemed a sufficiently non-threatening environment so as to justify a stripping of presidential security? Not according to on-the-record comments from former agents Kellerman and Abraham Bolden (to the Warren Commission and this correspondent, respectively). They stated that they were at a loss to explain or otherwise find justification for the at least three separate checks for threats and harmful subjects in Dallas conducted by the Protective Research Section of the Secret Service that produced negative results.

Given the city's history, including the 1963 attacks there against Adlai Stevenson, the acknowledged presence in Dallas of radical, violence-prone Right Wing groups and anti-Castro operatives, and the knowledge, commonly and officially held within the Secret Service and the Kennedy administration, of ongoing, non-location-specific threats against the president, those results were, in the opinion of interviewees, highly unusual.

Marty Underwood, Democratic National Committee advance man for the Dallas trip, told this correspondent that he was hearing all sorts of assassination rumors just 18 hours prior to the actual shooting. Underwood said that he conveyed this information to JFK, who told him not to worry. Former agent Kinney further stated that there was an assassination threat in Florida on November 18, 1963. Former agent Bouck said that he too was aware of the active pre-Dallas threats.


Additional fatal flaws in presidential security during the Dallas trip include:

MOTORCADE ROUTE -- The route of the presidential parade violated Secret Service protocol by involving turns of 90 and 120 degrees. During interviews with this correspondent, the route was strongly criticized by former DNC advance man Underwood and former uniformed Secret Service agent Norris. In addition, Jerry Behn, the # 1 agent in JFK's detail, told me that the Dallas route was changed from another, as yet unknown route -- a fact he offered, under oath and in executive session, to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. That testimony remains, as of the date of this publication, unpublished. Former agents Lawson and Kinney confirmed to me that alternate routes (two, according to Kinney) were available.

PUBLICATION OF MOTORCADE ROUTE -- Although Secret Service Chief James J. Rowley adamantly denied to the Warren Commission that his agency was responsible for the newspaper printing of the Dallas motorcade route, I have traced this critical decision to LBJ aide Bill Moyers, who in turn attributes it to "the agent in charge of the Dallas trip."

THE RYBKA TAPE -- An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Henry J. Rybka begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.

Rybka's dismay and confusion is made manifest by his unambiguous body language: He throws up his arms several times before, during and after the follow-up car passes him. He was not being allowed to do his job -- and it was not JFK who was ordering the stand-down.

Despite the discovery by this correspondent of three reports to the contrary (two by Roberts) written on November 22, 1963, this newly discovered photographic evidence confirms that frustrated and vocal-in-his-objections Rybka did not enter the follow-up car and was left behind at the airport.

THE NON-PERFORMANCE OF AGENT ROBERTS -- The activities of Emory P. Roberts during as well as before the shooting are difficult to understand. As the first shots were fired, he recalled agent John D. Ready, who was attempting to run to the president's car. The initial explanation for this order -- the speed of and distance between the cars was too great for effective protective measures to be taken -- has been contradicted by photographic and eyewitness testimony.

And Kinney, the driver of the follow-up car who was seated beside Roberts, said that his shift leader, upon hearing what he later admitted he immediately knew to be a rifle shot, ordered his agents not to move.

Thus, during the most critical seconds of the Dallas motorcade, John F. Kennedy was denied potentially life-saving protection as the result of a direct order given by a ranking member of the United States Secret Service.

During taped interviews and/or in signed correspondence, several agents and others stated for the record that they believe JFK was a victim of a conspiracy. These individuals include agents Kinney, Bolden, Martineau and Norris, and DNC advance man Underwood.

In addition, according to his widow and daughter, agent Kellerman "knew" that there was more to the assassination than has been officially acknowledged.

The suspect actions and inaction of Secret Service agents during the planning stage of the 1963 Texas trip, and in the Dallas motorcade on November 22, 1963, cry out for explanation.

Thanks to the courage of former Secret Service agents who told the truth for the record, defenders of the discredited Warren Commission theory of the assassination no longer can accuse JFK of complicity in his own murder. One fact remains clear: President Kennedy did not seal his own fate by ordering his guards to stand down.

That order originated elsewhere.

- 30 -


(BIOGRAPHICAL AND BIBLIOGRAPHICAL NOTE -- Vincent M. Palamara is a graduate of Duquesne University. His research into the Secret Service aspects of the assassination of John F. Kennedy began in 1988. Since then he has contacted more than 35 former agents, White House aides and family members of their deceased colleagues. In 1997 he published "The Third Alternative -- Survivors' Guilt: The Secret Service and the JFK Murder" . This book-length analysis, in which interviews appearing in this LancerLINE story are used at length, has garnered rave reviews from the magazines "Probable Cause" and "Lobster", and from the scholarly journal "The Fourth Decade." Mr. Palamara's articles have appeared in "The Fourth Decade," "The Investigator", "BackChannels", "Lobster" and "Kennedy Assassination Chronicles." He has been credited for research assistance in the following books: "High Treason 2: Killing the Truth," by Harrison Livingstone, 'Treachery in Dallas," by Walt Brown, "Bloody Treason," by Noel Twyman, "Assassination Science," edited by James Fetzer, "That Day in Dallas," by Richard Trask, and others. He is associate editor for "JFK Deep Politics Quarterly".

Mr. Palamara has presented papers at many of the major JFK assassination scholarly meetings. He has his own web page: www.njmetronet.com/jfkdpq/v/palamara.html "The Third Alternative" is available through JFK Lancer Productions<www.jfklancer.com >.)

(LancerLINE REPUBLICATION AND INTERVIEW POLICIES -- This story may be republished, in whole or in part, without fees and with full permission by its author and LancerLINE, under the following conditions: Author (Palamara) and source (LancerLINE) credits must be included. Copyright and other ownership rights are retained by the author.

JFK Lancer Needs Your Help If you find this site useful, important, or entertaining, please consider a donation of any amount.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html





Thank you for caring, ailsagirl. This information would drive most anybody crazy, were it not shared.
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  -45 Years On, We Must Bring JFKs Killers to Justice Octafish  Nov-22-08 02:39 PM   #0 
  - K & R ...  AzDar   Nov-22-08 02:44 PM   #1 
  - JFK and Vietnam  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:03 PM   #2 
  - My god, you haven't heard???  russspeakeasy   Nov-22-08 10:42 PM   #140 
  - Our country's been hijacked and we're wondering 'What's wrong with this picture?'  Octafish   Nov-23-08 10:02 PM   #315 
  - Here's the Official Magic Bullet Path  Phred42   Nov-23-08 11:12 AM   #227 
     - Wrong. See my post #232.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:21 AM   #232 
        - Nonsense. BTW that bullet was magic, in part  Phred42   Nov-23-08 12:52 PM   #250 
           - Wrong. The bullet was NOT pristine. The nose was somewhat flattened  stopbush   Nov-23-08 01:00 PM   #253 
              - Comparatively speaking, it is pristine  martymar64   Nov-24-08 04:41 PM   #372 
                 - If this bullet was planted on the stretcher, then when was it fired from Oswald's rifle?  stopbush   Nov-24-08 05:11 PM   #379 
                 - RE: mushrooming - there's no mushrooming of the head of CE 399  stopbush   Nov-24-08 06:27 PM   #385 
                 - Here's how CE 399 absolutely proves that it was the bullet that caused all the wounds  stopbush   Nov-25-08 12:42 AM   #397 
                 - Here's the alleged magic bullet.  Octafish   Nov-25-08 02:33 PM   #409 
  - I know at least one of those bastards involved is still alive  Sebastian Doyle   Nov-22-08 03:07 PM   #3 
  - Don't KNOW if either one was a conspirator, but I'd at least like them to answer publicly.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:13 PM   #4 
  - Octafish I started a thread that got moved tonight - Not sure why but here is the link...  1776Forever   Nov-22-08 09:10 PM   #113 
  - Hear, hear  canichelouis   Nov-23-08 09:29 AM   #211 
  - Which is why the cover-up/misinformation continues.  Artiechoke   Nov-22-08 08:49 PM   #112 
  - I want to know where Liddy was that day  Phred42   Nov-23-08 11:10 AM   #226 
  - I think we need to look no further than the BFEE  leftchick   Nov-22-08 03:16 PM   #5 
  - Without DU, many of us wouldn't know the connections.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:24 PM   #9 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-08 04:05 PM   #18 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-08 04:45 PM   #24 
  - oh for god's sakes  leftchick   Nov-22-08 04:56 PM   #28 
  - Would someone please tell me what the hell the BFEE is? I was born  salguine   Nov-22-08 06:25 PM   #43 
     - Bush Family Evil Empire  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 06:41 PM   #51 
     - Bush Family Evil Empire n/t  KT2000   Nov-22-08 06:41 PM   #52 
     - It's also, for me, shorthand for the "War Party."  Octafish   Nov-22-08 07:20 PM   #80 
        - Wow!!!  Peggy Day   Nov-22-08 11:38 PM   #162 
        - Thanks so much for posting all of the links.  tasteblind   Nov-23-08 05:07 AM   #193 
        - Why oh why don't our representatives see all this?  Peggy Day   Nov-23-08 09:23 AM   #208 
        - well it is very simple  leftchick   Nov-23-08 09:25 AM   #210 
        - Brilliant. So I'll Include This.  Mark D.   Nov-23-08 12:24 PM   #246 
        - Andrew Jackson "paid off" the national debt  Art_from_Ark   Nov-24-08 09:35 PM   #391 
        - Quite a compendium of knowledge! Thank you for this! rec'd  mod mom   Nov-23-08 02:09 PM   #272 
        - May I suggest "Farewell America"  Artiechoke   Nov-23-08 05:00 PM   #295 
           - Great book. It's available online...  Octafish   Nov-23-08 06:45 PM   #301 
  - Just about to finish reading  Mme. Defarge   Nov-22-08 03:18 PM   #6 
  - I'm a big Thom Hartman fan, but I agree with Douglass.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:30 PM   #10 
  - Agreed.  Mme. Defarge   Nov-22-08 03:43 PM   #12 
  - I just want to point out the overlap of the Mob and CIA in anti-Castro assassination plots:  AntiFascist   Nov-22-08 05:08 PM   #29 
  - Then who did?? If you ask yourself this question there can only  ailsagirl   Nov-22-08 05:58 PM   #37 
  - How do you know for certain that he wasn't simply castigated for farting upwind of the following car  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 07:59 PM   #92 
  - Because it is obvious from the film that the agent who  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 01:38 AM   #178 
     - Thank you for giving an intelligent answer to this.  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:20 PM   #258 
  - Henry J. Rybka was the Secret Service agent who asked ''Why?''  Octafish   Nov-23-08 08:17 PM   #311 
     - As for the removal of the bubble-top...  AntiFascist   Nov-24-08 01:00 AM   #330 
     - The bubble top on JFK's limo was NOT bullet proof. It was for weather protection.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 12:34 PM   #342 
        - If only you could see forest for trees...  AntiFascist   Nov-24-08 05:40 PM   #380 
           - Or, the bubble top could have meant that shards of glass entered Kennedy along with the bullets.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 09:32 PM   #389 
     - dupe n/t  AntiFascist   Nov-24-08 01:00 AM   #331 
  - Exactly!  Lugnut   Nov-23-08 12:03 AM   #170 
  - And the mob didn't have the power to cover it all up  Missie56   Nov-23-08 08:26 AM   #198 
  - My take on the role of the Mob  martymar64   Nov-24-08 04:54 PM   #376 
  - The two aren't mutually exclusive  RufusTFirefly   Nov-22-08 04:55 PM   #26 
  - think it is the mob PLUS the CIA  itsjustme   Nov-23-08 11:29 AM   #234 
  - The mob couldn't have controlled the motorcade route  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:48 PM   #263 
  - "...the CIA, along with the support of the Joint Chiefs and the FBI, were behind the assassination"  chromotone   Nov-24-08 04:41 PM   #373 
  - It was what I woke up thinking about this morning. November 22, 1963.  seafan   Nov-22-08 03:21 PM   #7 
  - The country has not been the same place.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:33 PM   #11 
  - America and the world have never been the same.  ailsagirl   Nov-22-08 06:02 PM   #38 
  - Not the case  Thothmes   Nov-22-08 06:38 PM   #48 
  - Right. Kennedy's assassination marked the loss of innocence in the U.S.  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 01:58 AM   #179 
  - November 22, 1963, through the eyes of a child  seafan   Nov-23-08 10:19 AM   #219 
  - I was a junior in high school --  Mme. Defarge   Nov-23-08 02:52 PM   #282 
     - JFK's Death  dglow   Nov-23-08 06:59 PM   #303 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-22-08 03:24 PM   #8 
  - The killer was already killed  stahbrett   Nov-22-08 03:49 PM   #13 
  - Do you have a link to "all of the evidence?" Thank you n/t  leftstreet   Nov-22-08 03:56 PM   #14 
  - Here's a link to an interview with an old CIA guy by the name of Crowley,  bagrman   Nov-23-08 11:28 AM   #233 
  - The ''accused'' killer.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 03:59 PM   #17 
  - LHO was set up. He said so himself, calling himself a "patsy"  ailsagirl   Nov-22-08 06:03 PM   #39 
  - And Republicans call themselves victims when their dirty tricks backfire.  stopbush   Nov-22-08 07:04 PM   #74 
  - My point is that Oswald was not "the lone gun man"  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:15 PM   #255 
  - And every prison inmate is "innocent", just ask him or her, they'll swear to it. n/t  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 08:00 PM   #94 
     - Political assassins are usually proud to admit their crimes n/t  Artiechoke   Nov-24-08 09:33 PM   #390 
  - I seem to be in the spot where the dots land just for the connecting.........  rucognizant   Nov-23-08 07:03 AM   #196 
  - "All of the evidence" supports your desire not to have to think about it. Go ahead and put your  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 06:35 PM   #47 
  - Except that it was impossible. Minor detail.  Waiting For Everyman   Nov-22-08 10:10 PM   #129 
  - One can ascribe to the 'lone gunman theory' and STILL accept a conspiracy existed ...  Trajan   Nov-22-08 11:58 PM   #167 
  - Watch the video that is linked to above. That is strong evidence  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 01:59 AM   #180 
  - I bet you know where all the WMDs are also!!  pocoloco   Nov-23-08 09:46 AM   #213 
  - What I do not understand  Ladyinblack   Nov-22-08 03:57 PM   #15 
  - Two schools of thought...  Octafish   Nov-22-08 04:05 PM   #19 
  - The CIA and mafia may have been tightly interwoven at certain levels...  AntiFascist   Nov-22-08 05:33 PM   #32 
     - There were many "rogue" elements in the CIA who did what they  ailsagirl   Nov-22-08 06:09 PM   #41 
        - I don't like the word "rogue" in this context.  Chemical Bill   Nov-22-08 08:04 PM   #96 
        - This looks like an excellent summary of the history of the CIA and how JFK crossed them...  AntiFascist   Nov-23-08 02:20 AM   #181 
           - Thanks for posting. It was clear that JFK was working against the  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:13 PM   #254 
  - It was JFK Jr. who told Barbara Walters a few years before his death  Foxman   Nov-22-08 07:54 PM   #90 
  - Why haven't the Kennedys  NBachers   Nov-22-08 10:55 PM   #147 
     - Jackie Kennedy commissioned a private investigation into her husband's death  Samantha   Nov-22-08 11:36 PM   #161 
        - Read "Farewell America" online (authored by French intel)  Artiechoke   Nov-23-08 04:49 PM   #291 
  - kr for Justice.  Progs Rock   Nov-22-08 03:59 PM   #16 
  - ''The world was shattered and everything just shut down.''  Octafish   Nov-22-08 04:43 PM   #23 
  - That'll keep the DoJ busy  Oeditpus Rex   Nov-22-08 04:09 PM   #20 
  - LOL! Once again the Onion gets to the truth without even trying.  rasputin5   Nov-22-08 06:06 PM   #40 
  - On that sunny Friday, I was cleaning my rifle on a grassy knoll, and it just went off!  tclambert   Nov-22-08 10:07 PM   #126 
  - Freemasons?!  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:50 PM   #145 
     - Hard to believe, innit?  Oeditpus Rex   Nov-22-08 11:02 PM   #152 
     - More like their evil alter-ego  formercia   Nov-23-08 08:10 AM   #197 
  - Many say that the country never recovered from the psychic wound of his murder.  whathehell   Nov-22-08 04:27 PM   #21 
  - Dig up Lee Harvery Oswald...  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 04:42 PM   #22 
  - The Zapruder film,  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 04:49 PM   #25 
     - Then you ought to...  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 06:20 PM   #42 
     - The proper authorities....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 06:26 PM   #44 
     - Uh, because the dictabelt tape that supposedly "proved" a 4th shot  stopbush   Nov-22-08 07:03 PM   #70 
     - Read it....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 07:07 PM   #76 
     - BTW - Officer HB McClain swore up and down that he was nowhere near the  stopbush   Nov-23-08 02:00 PM   #265 
        - The same can be said about the WC...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 02:05 PM   #269 
     - Conspiracy doesn't necessarily have to involve multiple shooters.  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 08:23 PM   #104 
        - And what exactly convinces you?  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 08:24 PM   #107 
        - The word "refute" means PROVE. No one has PROVEN that Kennedy was shot with more than one gun.  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 08:38 PM   #109 
           - Back and the the left....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 08:44 PM   #111 
           - See my post number 115  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 09:29 PM   #116 
           - Excuse me, but JFK's head moves FORWARD upon impact of the head shot,  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:07 AM   #224 
              - He does not jerk forward....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 11:08 AM   #225 
                 - Who said "jerk?" Not me.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:38 AM   #238 
           - But the doctors thought the wound on the back of his head was an exit wound  dflprincess   Nov-23-08 12:39 AM   #174 
              - But it wasn't the back of his head, it was the top of his head.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 06:06 PM   #382 
                 - The doctors said the back of the head  dflprincess   Nov-24-08 08:03 PM   #387 
        - Ask a physicist to analyze the trajectory for you.  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:23 AM   #183 
           - Magic bullet? There was no magic bullet.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:19 AM   #230 
              - The Warren Commission disagrees with you  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 11:20 AM   #231 
                 - Hmm? I missed that drawing in the WCR. Could you provide the WCR Exhibit number so I can look it up?  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:36 AM   #237 
                    - That picture....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 11:44 AM   #239 
                       - And yet you presented it as if it were a drawing from the WC itself.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:59 AM   #243 
                          - So your position...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 12:08 PM   #244 
                             - You ask a lot of questions and try to shift the burden of proof to me.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 12:45 PM   #249 
                                - You can doubt all you want...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 01:44 PM   #262 
                                   - I posted the WC photo of that "pristine" bullet in #255 above.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 02:11 PM   #273 
                                      - Basic...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 02:26 PM   #278 
                                         - Still won't answer the question about the alignment of the two victims in the limo.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 09:00 PM   #312 
                                            - I did answer it....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 09:47 PM   #314 
                                               - So JFK and Connally were hit at exactly the same instant by two separate bullets?  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:44 PM   #318 
                                               - This is the last time I am engaging with you....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-24-08 05:44 AM   #334 
                                               - You wish to end the dialogue, fine, but do yourself a favor and  stopbush   Nov-24-08 11:28 AM   #338 
                                               - And you ignore your fantasies as well...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-24-08 11:33 AM   #339 
                                               - No, I'm ignoring YOUR fantasies.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 12:38 PM   #343 
                                               - This is the perfect place for one of my faves: A lifetime JFK assassination "researcher"...  apocalypsehow   Nov-24-08 01:25 PM   #351 
                                               - Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza  MinM   Nov-24-08 12:38 PM   #344 
                                               - And yet, other marksmen have easily and repeatedly duplicated Osawld's  stopbush   Nov-24-08 12:53 PM   #345 
                                               - I LOVE this whopper of a LIE from Roberts:  stopbush   Nov-25-08 12:42 PM   #406 
     - Do you know how many people have died trying? nt  happydreams   Nov-22-08 06:50 PM   #61 
     - Officer shot in back yard mistaken for deer.............  Artiechoke   Nov-22-08 08:17 PM   #99 
     - The video linked to above that shows the puzzled gestures and  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:20 AM   #182 
     - that would be one interpenetration. another would be...  CasualWatcher9   Nov-22-08 10:33 PM   #137 
     - Here is the quote  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 10:42 PM   #141 
        - bullshit. she wasn't reaching for anything. she was trying to get her ass out of that limo...  CasualWatcher9   Nov-22-08 10:53 PM   #146 
           - That is not my lore.  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 11:00 PM   #150 
              - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-22-08 11:14 PM   #155 
     - Liberal OIF Vet, I've watched that film scores of times and every single time I came away with  bertman   Nov-22-08 11:29 PM   #156 
        - All I can say is....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 11:31 PM   #158 
        - At this point I have to discount the testimony of any of the agents involved. Certainly  bertman   Nov-23-08 08:03 PM   #309 
        - Not far fetched at all  MicaelS   Nov-23-08 12:09 AM   #171 
           - That may well be the case. As you say, in her state of mind that would not be implausible.  bertman   Nov-23-08 08:06 PM   #310 
  - It changed the course of my life. Who's with JFK in that picture?  bluesmail   Nov-22-08 04:55 PM   #27 
  - Pierre Salinger. They're aboard the U.S.S. Joseph P. Kennedy...  Octafish   Nov-22-08 06:28 PM   #45 
     - That's priceless.  bluesmail   Nov-22-08 06:35 PM   #46 
     - JFK's remarks  Octafish   Nov-22-08 07:46 PM   #89 
     - Thats not the USS Joseph P. Kennedy  Thothmes   Nov-22-08 06:44 PM   #55 
        - The picture from the OP.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 07:04 PM   #71 
  - I'd be pleased if  H2O Man   Nov-22-08 05:15 PM   #30 
  - Could you please cite a source for the Powers, O'Donnell, O'Neill meeting?  RufusTFirefly   Nov-22-08 06:49 PM   #60 
  - Sure.  H2O Man   Nov-22-08 06:52 PM   #62 
     - Great! Thank you. Here's the excerpt  RufusTFirefly   Nov-22-08 07:27 PM   #83 
        - There are  H2O Man   Nov-22-08 07:40 PM   #88 
           - Vincent Bugliosi rejects the conspiracy theory about the assassination of Kennedy.  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:29 AM   #184 
              - Right.  H2O Man   Nov-23-08 06:10 AM   #194 
  - National security.  Octafish   Nov-22-08 10:58 PM   #149 
  - And would Nora O;'Donnell be.........  rucognizant   Nov-23-08 09:02 AM   #201 
  - k&r'd!  wildbilln864   Nov-22-08 05:30 PM   #31 
  - He was murdered by Oswald alone.  crimsonblue   Nov-22-08 05:34 PM   #33 
  - Yeah, the Discovery Channel....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 05:48 PM   #34 
  - Obviously, you have not seen the documentary  crimsonblue   Nov-22-08 07:31 PM   #85 
  - Oh...now you are talking!  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 07:35 PM   #87 
  - It's not "science" if it is using Warren Commission as a control n/t  Artiechoke   Nov-22-08 08:18 PM   #101 
     - Thank you....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 08:23 PM   #105 
  - "trunk... brains and skull" Explain the rearward ejecta in this high speed photograph.  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 09:25 PM   #115 
  - Couple of things...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 09:45 PM   #119 
     - It's impossible to compare a pear to a human skull.  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 10:03 PM   #125 
        - I have also seen the effects of bullets  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 10:15 PM   #131 
           - Now you're using as your examples things which do not approach the thinkness and hardness (graphic)  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-22-08 10:22 PM   #134 
           - JUST LOOK  Mark D.   Nov-23-08 02:05 PM   #268 
              - Logic defies some of these people...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 02:07 PM   #270 
           - From the Dicovery Channel website:  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 10:57 PM   #148 
  - I Saw That Documentary... it was bullshit  fascisthunter   Nov-23-08 12:30 AM   #173 
  - Uhhh, was Discovery taken over by Clear Channel? n/t  AntiFascist   Nov-22-08 05:50 PM   #35 
  - And I do try sooo hard not to be ignorant. Have faith my children the Discovery Channel has spoken.  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 06:38 PM   #49 
  - I refuse...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 06:43 PM   #54 
  - Was that a rhetorical question? Who knows who is involved in the cover up. nm  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 06:57 PM   #66 
  - It is rhetorical....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 07:00 PM   #69 
  - Could be because as early as 1980 the FBI and other  stopbush   Nov-24-08 04:11 PM   #365 
     - Just thought that I'd mention that the "others" who rejected the 4th bullet  stopbush   Nov-24-08 06:12 PM   #383 
  - LOL  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 09:34 PM   #117 
  - Did that forensic study deal with the single magic bullet theory  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:30 AM   #185 
  - Cui bono? Who benefited??  ailsagirl   Nov-22-08 05:55 PM   #36 
  - Have to agree  Thothmes   Nov-22-08 06:45 PM   #58 
  - There were others....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 06:47 PM   #59 
  - And remember, Hoover despised the Kenndys while he and LBJ  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:22 PM   #260 
  - Interesting...  AntiFascist   Nov-22-08 07:55 PM   #91 
  - LBJ was sponsored by Brown & Root (Halliburton)  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:41 AM   #187 
  - It's like people want to believe it was anyone but Oswald  Truth Teller   Nov-22-08 06:40 PM   #50 
  - No....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 06:45 PM   #56 
  - Okay  Truth Teller   Nov-22-08 06:54 PM   #63 
     - In a nutshell, yes....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 06:59 PM   #68 
  - Am I the only one who sees that Oswald could be the lone shooter  Gonnabuymeagun   Nov-22-08 07:18 PM   #78 
  - Excellent point.  Artiechoke   Nov-22-08 08:39 PM   #110 
  - Not really. The House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 08:07 PM   #97 
  - The HSCA concluded that there was a probability...  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 09:55 PM   #122 
     - I say again, define proof.  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 09:59 PM   #124 
     - Have you read Brothers, Liberal OIF Vet?  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:10 PM   #128 
     - I sure haven't  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 10:17 PM   #132 
        - David Talbot is the author  horseshoecrab   Nov-22-08 10:37 PM   #138 
        - A book to read and reread.  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:48 PM   #144 
           - Just ordered it from my library...  horseshoecrab   Nov-23-08 11:13 AM   #228 
        - David Talbot. It's a beautiful book about how Jack and Bobby worked  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:40 PM   #139 
     - Proof is evidence that one can take  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 10:19 PM   #133 
        - Probable tells me...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 10:26 PM   #136 
     - Yes, that's more accurate. A "probability".  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:08 PM   #127 
  - that's the problem when there...  stillcool47   Nov-22-08 09:24 PM   #114 
  - I'm now convinced LBJ was in on it along with the CIA, Mafia (Giancanna, Lansky)  happydreams   Nov-22-08 06:43 PM   #53 
  - The Secret Service should see the e-mails about Obama  Joey Liberal   Nov-22-08 06:45 PM   #57 
  - Bless those of you that believe that the nitwit Oswald could have killed President Kennedy in a  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 06:55 PM   #64 
  - That would be LH Oswald, who is dead.  stopbush   Nov-22-08 06:55 PM   #65 
  - I have.  H2O Man   Nov-22-08 06:59 PM   #67 
  - I have read them....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 07:04 PM   #73 
  - The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald  MinM   Nov-22-08 07:07 PM   #77 
  - SB  PaddyBlueEyes   Nov-24-08 12:38 AM   #323 
     - First shot the most accurate? So says a movie character.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 02:00 PM   #355 
        - SB  PaddyBlueEyes   Nov-25-08 01:05 AM   #401 
           - IF Oswald shot while the limo was still on Houston  stopbush   Nov-25-08 09:44 AM   #405 
  - Pointless effort, LBJ is dead.  Thothmes   Nov-22-08 07:04 PM   #72 
  - It wasn't the Mafia.... this was way out of the Mafia's league.......  lib2DaBone   Nov-22-08 07:06 PM   #75 
  - I would just like to mention the attempted assasination of Reagan...  Just-plain-Kathy   Nov-22-08 07:19 PM   #79 
  - I believe that there was a pretty good chance that Oswald wasn't alone.  SurferBoy   Nov-22-08 07:21 PM   #81 
  - Most eyewitnesses..  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-22-08 07:24 PM   #82 
  - 4. Extra shooter to make certain Oswald wasn't a non-shooter plant.  Festivito   Nov-23-08 04:23 AM   #191 
  - you may know this already  hileeopnyn8d   Nov-23-08 09:22 PM   #313 
  - Wasn't poppy * in charge of the CIA then...  MadMaddie   Nov-22-08 07:28 PM   #84 
  - No. He didn't become head of the CIA until 1977  RufusTFirefly   Nov-22-08 07:32 PM   #86 
  - Never forget.  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 07:59 PM   #93 
  - Well, I'm really impressed. Get back to us when you have the prosecution brief written.  anigbrowl   Nov-22-08 08:03 PM   #95 
  - You mean, get back to you. Most posters to this thread are right with Octafish. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 08:14 PM   #98 
     - Octafish  H2O Man   Nov-22-08 08:18 PM   #100 
     - Octafish  horseshoecrab   Nov-22-08 08:21 PM   #103 
     - Absolutuely. The amount of research is staggering.  Artiechoke   Nov-22-08 08:24 PM   #106 
     - LOL, I don't watch cable documentaries  anigbrowl   Nov-23-08 07:32 PM   #306 
     - This is my four year DU anniversary.  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 09:45 PM   #120 
     - Picky, aren't we  anigbrowl   Nov-22-08 08:30 PM   #108 
     - Most DUers who believe LHO was the lone killer  wtmusic   Nov-22-08 09:49 PM   #121 
     - There is no use trying to convince people who have poured over this case  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 09:58 PM   #123 
        - A waste of time maybe  Kaleva   Nov-22-08 11:06 PM   #153 
        - Enjoyable? No.  sfexpat2000   Nov-23-08 12:00 AM   #168 
        - What could possibly be enjoyable about engaging with wilfully ignorant people like yourself  TheWatcher   Nov-24-08 01:09 PM   #346 
           - It is not up to me to prove the conspiracy theories to be true..  Kaleva   Nov-24-08 02:55 PM   #361 
        - A lot of those who have pored over the case  wtmusic   Nov-23-08 12:55 PM   #252 
           - When did the truth ever insult the memory of a democratic leader?  sfexpat2000   Nov-23-08 02:56 PM   #284 
              - I always support people questioning official narrative  wtmusic   Nov-23-08 10:06 PM   #316 
     - Indeed. A sad commentary on the gullibility of many DUers.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 03:09 PM   #362 
        - Bullshit. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 03:28 PM   #363 
           - I call 'em like I see 'em. Some are no-brainers...like this one.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 04:22 PM   #367 
              - No brainers, indeed. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 05:03 PM   #378 
  - Thank you, octafish.  Chemical Bill   Nov-22-08 08:20 PM   #102 
  - And I second that. nm  rhett o rick   Nov-22-08 09:42 PM   #118 
  - only one possible response to that...  QuestionAll   Nov-22-08 10:11 PM   #130 
  - This case has never been closed in the same way that the Taguba Report did not close Abu Graib.  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:48 PM   #143 
  - it's closed.  QuestionAll   Nov-22-08 11:36 PM   #160 
     - Denial has it's uses but it can turn around and bite you.  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 11:48 PM   #163 
     - what does obama have to do with the fact that the kennedy investigation has long been closed..?  QuestionAll   Nov-22-08 11:55 PM   #165 
     - Then move on  martymar64   Nov-25-08 05:52 AM   #404 
  - You know what, QuestionAll? I can't.  JDPriestly   Nov-23-08 02:50 AM   #188 
  - what kind of resolution to the kennedy assassination would be acceptable to you..?  QuestionAll   Nov-23-08 02:34 PM   #280 
  - QuestionAll. I hope you didn't miss the irony  sabrina 1   Nov-23-08 11:30 AM   #235 
  - you'll note that i didn't say that lee harvey definitely killed kennedy..  QuestionAll   Nov-23-08 02:42 PM   #281 
  - Of course that is your only possible response.  TheWatcher   Nov-24-08 01:13 PM   #349 
     - ...  QuestionAll   Nov-24-08 03:49 PM   #364 
  - He's dead. It was filmed.  jobycom   Nov-22-08 10:25 PM   #135 
  - Bobby Kennedy was running in part to be in a position  sfexpat2000   Nov-22-08 10:47 PM   #142 
  - ok, but "more than anything"?  BeyondThePale   Nov-22-08 11:02 PM   #151 
  - Agreed  Vroomfondel   Nov-22-08 11:13 PM   #154 
  - This only goes to show how desperate the far right-wing...  AntiFascist   Nov-23-08 03:05 AM   #189 
  - Re: and to forget the memory of a great President I say: Go to Hell.  anotheryellowdog   Nov-22-08 11:31 PM   #157 
  - good luck-I think you're dreaming! nt  Peggy Day   Nov-22-08 11:35 PM   #159 
  - No dream. Poppy Bush told the FBI he was in Dallas 11/22/63 and he suspected a fellow Republican.  Octafish   Nov-23-08 03:06 PM   #285 
  - Five years ago there were all kinds of tapes shown on tv with various angles  higher class   Nov-22-08 11:52 PM   #164 
  - Correct -- and LBJ's mistress tells about 98.8% of it - Madelaine Brown ...  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 12:18 AM   #172 
  - I Have a Question.....  fingrpik   Nov-22-08 11:55 PM   #166 
  - LHO was CIA and totally surrounded by people who were CIA ...  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 12:57 AM   #176 
  - Yes, according to Marina Oswald's testimony to the WC:  stopbush   Nov-24-08 05:02 PM   #377 
  - This was, of course, a coup on our people's government ...  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 12:01 AM   #169 
  - There You Have It  Mark D.   Nov-23-08 02:15 PM   #275 
     - "The Rise of the Fourth Reich"  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 06:28 PM   #298 
  - Most I Know Believe He was Whacked  fascisthunter   Nov-23-08 12:39 AM   #175 
  - Oswald was CIA ..  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 06:30 PM   #299 
  - PBS played "Kennedy"  tsegat01   Nov-23-08 01:10 AM   #177 
  - I saw that too. It was excellent. n/t  Artiechoke   Nov-25-08 12:47 AM   #399 
  - Just because Hoover wanted you to believe something doesn't mean it isn't true.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-23-08 02:35 AM   #186 
  - I wouldn't dream too much about it.  caseymoz   Nov-23-08 03:18 AM   #190 
  - I just watched JFK on AMC tonight  Horse with no Name   Nov-23-08 04:26 AM   #192 
  - I watched it last night too. My first time to see it entirely through.  liberalla   Nov-23-08 12:29 PM   #247 
  - k&r-Thanks for this, Octafish  JennasLiver   Nov-23-08 06:18 AM   #195 
  - Oswald acted alone  Johnnyheadstone   Nov-23-08 08:50 AM   #199 
  - And the evidence...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 08:55 AM   #200 
  - There is no evidence that can counter the physical evidence  Johnnyheadstone   Nov-23-08 09:18 AM   #204 
     - So the fact that...  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 09:21 AM   #207 
     - Why would Nellie Connally lie?  itsjustme   Nov-23-08 11:33 AM   #236 
     - The best physical evidence was destroyed or went missing n/t  Artiechoke   Nov-24-08 01:11 PM   #347 
  - In regards to the magic bullet...  Johnnyheadstone   Nov-23-08 09:09 AM   #202 
     - So you also assert....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 09:18 AM   #205 
        - The only thing I assert  Johnnyheadstone   Nov-23-08 09:24 AM   #209 
           - Dont Assume....  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 09:39 AM   #212 
           - "They will never be able to convince me" writes Liberal OIF Vet.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:47 AM   #240 
              - Huh?  Liberal OIF Vet   Nov-23-08 11:51 AM   #241 
                 - You say "they'll never convince me" that Oswald acted alone.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 01:18 PM   # 
           - How sad. How really, really sad - that you are stuck.  higher class   Nov-23-08 10:08 AM   #216 
  - JFK's assassination paved the way for the House of Bush to ascend to the top of this country.  Old and In the Way   Nov-23-08 09:17 AM   #203 
  - What is the Bush family's relationship to Clay Shaw?  Horse with no Name   Nov-23-08 09:20 AM   #206 
  - CIA. If you think of CIA as in part a clearinghouse for BushCo,  sfexpat2000   Nov-23-08 12:54 PM   #251 
  - I guess Reagan must have been an agent of the Ds when he defeated Poppy Bush  stopbush   Nov-23-08 01:22 PM   #259 
  - And maybe then they can try to bring MLK's killers to justice, too.  redqueen   Nov-23-08 10:03 AM   #214 
  - That would be excellent.  Octafish   Nov-23-08 10:14 AM   #218 
  - Good grief.  faygokid   Nov-23-08 10:04 AM   #215 
  - I didn't say that to those who disagree with me.  Octafish   Nov-23-08 10:10 AM   #217 
  - The Lions are awful, aren't they?  faygokid   Nov-23-08 11:16 AM   #229 
  - How is the memory of JFK enhanced by engaging in CTs that are pure fantasy?  stopbush   Nov-23-08 01:52 PM   #264 
     - You make a good point. Someone like Oswald is simply incredible  sfexpat2000   Nov-23-08 02:15 PM   #276 
     - Flaming? How so?  stopbush   Nov-23-08 02:26 PM   #277 
     - Confront this -- Why did this fellow go to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and claim to be Oswald?  Octafish   Nov-23-08 03:57 PM   #289 
  - Agreed. The JFK CTs have as much validity as Jesus returning and ETs flying UFOs  stopbush   Nov-23-08 01:27 PM   #261 
     - What's James Randi got to do with it? I'm talking about TRAITORS.  Octafish   Nov-23-08 03:42 PM   #288 
        - Quite a rant, Octa. Has nothing to do with the overwhelming evidence in the JFK murder.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 12:08 AM   #320 
           - I read books more than I watch TV.  Octafish   Nov-24-08 09:30 AM   #335 
              - Then do yourself a favor a read Bugliosi's book on the assassination.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 11:34 AM   #340 
                 - The guy that conviced the world that Manson contolled people  Artiechoke   Nov-25-08 01:43 AM   #403 
  - I watched that Discovery Channel documentary  FifthColumn   Nov-23-08 10:54 AM   #220 
  - "There are veterans of World War I still among us. "  Aviation Pro   Nov-23-08 10:57 AM   #221 
  - LBJ and ALBERT THOMAS had something to do with it  judesedit   Nov-23-08 10:59 AM   #222 
  - Your proof is a wink? Really--a wink?  Bucky   Nov-23-08 02:03 PM   #266 
  - See Barr McClellan's "Power, Money, Blood" ...at your library ---  defendandprotect   Nov-23-08 06:34 PM   #300 
  - Sorry. Albert was a Congressman  judesedit   Nov-23-08 11:04 AM   #223 
  - kick. i already used my rec. nm  rhett o rick   Nov-23-08 11:59 AM   #242 
  - Well, Octafish, there *was* news coverage of the anniversary, but...  RFKin2008   Nov-23-08 12:23 PM   #245 
  - Any coverage of this 11/29/63 FBI memo? In it, Hoover briefs a "Mr George Bush" of the CIA.  Octafish   Nov-23-08 03:19 PM   #286 
     - And? We already knew Bush worked at the CIA  anigbrowl   Nov-23-08 07:43 PM   #307 
  - How come no one else says the driver did it  buzzycrumbhunger   Nov-23-08 12:43 PM   #248 
  - Greer (the driver) slowed to a stop, then the final bullet was fired  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 01:18 PM   #256 
  - Yes, that is odd  buzzycrumbhunger   Nov-23-08 02:54 PM   #283 
  - Absolutely pathetic. Wing nuttery at its nuttiest.  stopbush   Nov-23-08 11:58 PM   #319 
     - Your video is clearly edited  buzzycrumbhunger   Nov-24-08 04:44 AM   #333 
        - Clearly edited? OK. If you say so.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 11:45 AM   #341 
           - Partial clip, pan & scan. . .  buzzycrumbhunger   Nov-24-08 04:34 PM   #371 
  - My guess is that there is no one left to be brought to justice.  dbaker41   Nov-23-08 01:18 PM   #257 
  - Second that. Ford is dead. Dulles is dead. The Cubans and Mafiosos are dead.  Taverner   Nov-23-08 02:05 PM   #267 
  - They're not all dead but even so, it wouldn't matter.  sfexpat2000   Nov-23-08 02:27 PM   #279 
     - How do you KNOW they're not all dead?  dbaker41   Nov-24-08 10:08 AM   #337 
  - Maybe after fourty five more years....  wildbilln864   Nov-23-08 02:07 PM   #271 
  - K & R!  TheGoldenRule   Nov-23-08 02:13 PM   #274 
  - Octafish is interested in the truth about JFK's murder  stopbush   Nov-24-08 02:15 PM   #360 
  - FAIL  Mr Hedley Bowes   Nov-23-08 03:27 PM   #287 
  - I know a guy...  srf Rantz   Nov-23-08 04:21 PM   #290 
  - Interesting. Secret Servoce believed 3 shooters as well  Artiechoke   Nov-23-08 04:54 PM   #292 
  - and some here say "get over it" as if it is no longer relevant  Artiechoke   Nov-23-08 04:56 PM   #293 
  - This is still very important, and matters to a lot of us very much.  StrictlyRockers   Nov-23-08 04:59 PM   #294 
  - Sewer shot?  RedCloud   Nov-23-08 05:34 PM   #296 
  - I think it stinks.  stopbush   Nov-24-08 01:14 PM   #350 
  - Gary Mack  MarcA   Nov-23-08 05:50 PM   #297 
  - Octafish, check out these banned/censored videos on Youtube  ailsagirl   Nov-23-08 06:49 PM   #302 
  - Not to discount JFK's murder  blues90   Nov-23-08 07:04 PM   #304 
  - Conspiracy  Aventurier   Nov-23-08 07:21 PM   #305 
  - Thank you for posting  marlakay   Nov-23-08 07:58 PM   #308 
  - gotta figure most of them are dead by now n/t  Ex Lurker   Nov-23-08 10:11 PM   #317 
  - Worked for peace every day? umm....  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 12:13 AM   #321 
  - I think the real JFK would find this thread amusing. n/t.  apocalypsehow   Nov-24-08 12:33 AM   #322 
  - most likely  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 12:49 AM   #328 
     - Like Vietnam.  Octafish   Nov-24-08 04:15 PM   #366 
        - Wow. You really view Kennedy with rose colored glasses don't you?  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 09:52 PM   #392 
  - Then you should learn something about the Bay of Pigs  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 12:40 AM   #324 
     - Its easy enough to understand as maintaining the status quo  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 12:46 AM   #326 
        - That's deduction, not information. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 12:50 AM   #329 
        - Yes, a fairly obvious deduction, which is often the point of gathering information.  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 01:41 PM   #353 
           - Right and your deduction is only as good as the facts in hand. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 02:04 PM   #357 
        - Do you understand Nixon's role in the Bay of Pigs?  AntiFascist   Nov-24-08 02:04 AM   #332 
           - Yes, obviously  Radical Activist   Nov-24-08 01:40 PM   #352 
              - Kennedy's refusal to "carry out their agenda" is one reason  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 02:06 PM   #358 
                 - Exactly, plus the point I was trying to make...  AntiFascist   Nov-24-08 04:46 PM   #375 
  - The History Channel has started a tradition...  Borgnine   Nov-24-08 12:43 AM   #325 
  - Yeah. The writing is hilarious if you listen carefully.  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 02:06 PM   #359 
     - Hogwash. The writing is fine and the evidence is both compelling  stopbush   Nov-24-08 04:29 PM   #368 
        - LOL. So me the words.  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 04:31 PM   #370 
           - Care to point out the "gaps" you find and submit them to rebuttal, or  stopbush   Nov-24-08 06:24 PM   #384 
              - Let's see if we can find some of the script. If not, I'll be happy  sfexpat2000   Nov-25-08 01:38 PM   #408 
                 - I'll take that as a "no."  stopbush   Nov-25-08 04:13 PM   #410 
                    - Then you might be in need of an interpreter. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-25-08 04:25 PM   #411 
  - Arrest GHW Bushler  Swamp Rat   Nov-24-08 12:46 AM   #327 
  - I believe justice was served. Look in the upper left corner.  deaniac21   Nov-24-08 09:40 AM   #336 
  - To the contrary, that was the stifling of justice. n/t  Uncle Joe   Nov-24-08 01:46 PM   #354 
  - That isn't justice, that's murder. n/t  sfexpat2000   Nov-24-08 02:02 PM   #356 
  - .  Deep13   Nov-24-08 01:12 PM   #348 
  - I swear that Bush I had something to do with it.  EOO   Nov-24-08 04:31 PM   #369 
  - Not One Conspiracy Theory Holds Weight  maddowfan   Nov-24-08 04:43 PM   #374 
  - Thanks. It's embarrassing to read the CTs and the ardent  stopbush   Nov-24-08 06:00 PM   #381 
  - I wouldn't go that far...  Marsala   Nov-24-08 07:04 PM   #386 
  - I guess the Kennedys were nuts too.  Artiechoke   Nov-24-08 10:39 PM   #394 
  - How do you explain the Dallas policeman's report of a phony Secret Service man on the grassy knoll?  Octafish   Nov-24-08 09:00 PM   #388 
     - Solid evidence?  stopbush   Nov-24-08 09:59 PM   #393 
        - Thanks for reminding me. There's another policeman who reported phony Secret Service agents...  Octafish   Nov-24-08 11:01 PM   #395 
           - So, you'll take the Bible's standard of "proof" for something over forensic evidence?  stopbush   Nov-25-08 12:19 AM   #396 
              - It's so simple  Aventurier   Nov-25-08 12:46 AM   #398 
                 - Wow. Debunking 101. n/t  Artiechoke   Nov-25-08 12:51 AM   #400 
  - Some comments on Bugliosi's book  Artiechoke   Nov-25-08 01:28 AM   #402 
  - I'd feel highly of myself if I spent 20 years researching the evidence  stopbush   Nov-25-08 01:11 PM   #407 
  - locking  maddezmom   Nov-25-08 05:03 PM   #412 
 

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