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cabbage08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 06:19 AM
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32. K&R n/t
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  -GM workers make $73 an hour? Here's the rebuttal to that one. sinkingfeeling  Nov-20-08 02:59 PM   #0 
  - People need to be more objective and find out facts  halo experiment   Nov-20-08 03:02 PM   #1 
  - So the media and the repuke shills are trying to make union busting more palatable by  BrklynLiberal   Nov-20-08 03:03 PM   #2 
  - Whats to rebut? What is the problem?  pending   Nov-20-08 03:06 PM   #3 
  - Self-delete  bertman   Nov-20-08 11:26 PM   #23 
  - That number is probably the fully-burdened BUDGET NUMBER  bean fidhleir   Nov-21-08 09:14 AM   #59 
     - I missed the theard yesterday.  Hangingon   Nov-21-08 11:23 AM   #69 
     - But thats how you compare apples to apples  pending   Nov-21-08 11:27 AM   #70 
  - Thank you DU for the info. A Dem gave me that $70 figure yesterday.  Democrats_win   Nov-20-08 03:10 PM   #4 
  - I'm sure there's overtime, too. They're allowed to make decent money. It's not a crime.  soothsayer   Nov-20-08 03:15 PM   #5 
  - so basically the really high exec salaries are skewing the mean? anyone know the median wage? nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Nov-20-08 03:15 PM   #6 
  - Generally speaking, salaried employee pay is not used when averaging hourly workers' pay.  bertman   Nov-20-08 11:28 PM   #24 
  - I believe the biggest problem is senior mgmt. They demand  napi21   Nov-20-08 03:18 PM   #7 
  - A Lot of Chinese Executives Have Gotten Extremely Rich  ribofunk   Nov-21-08 11:52 AM   #74 
  - Here's a couple other items for clarification.  sinkingfeeling   Nov-20-08 03:18 PM   #8 
  - That figure has been pretty eye opening for me personally.  ContinentalOp   Nov-20-08 03:25 PM   #9 
  - That number also undoubtedly includes the bloated compensation of the executives.  TahitiNut   Nov-20-08 03:26 PM   #10 
  - New hires are hiring in between 13 - 15 dollars an hour  peacetrain   Nov-20-08 03:34 PM   #11 
  - what new hires?  Redstate Red Herring   Nov-20-08 03:43 PM   #12 
     - we must have posted simultaneously..  peacetrain   Nov-20-08 03:46 PM   #13 
     - they hired 1000 at $14/hr. then laid most of them off.  Hannah Bell   Nov-21-08 12:15 AM   #27 
  - it means something though  hfojvt   Nov-20-08 03:46 PM   #14 
  - New workers do not get defined pension plans.. it is 401-ks  peacetrain   Nov-20-08 03:49 PM   #15 
  - some additional infor on that pension funding for the auto workers  peacetrain   Nov-20-08 03:56 PM   #16 
  - He's using a figure that is suppossed to be a direct cost but includes an indirect cost  JohnWxy   Nov-20-08 04:37 PM   #17 
  - Yes, a more accurate description would be "total compensation, including benefits" is $73/hour.  bertman   Nov-20-08 11:34 PM   #25 
  - I want to know what the median wage is, not the mean age. (nt)  w4rma   Nov-20-08 04:39 PM   #18 
  - It's not a wage. It's a cost to employ. MUCH DIFFERENT.  Festivito   Nov-21-08 06:47 PM   #86 
  - The Unions in the Country gave birth to the Middle Class - without them it is class warfare!  1776Forever   Nov-20-08 05:14 PM   #19 
  - A more accurate statment might be "The Unions in the Country EXPANDED the Middle Class".  bertman   Nov-20-08 11:38 PM   #26 
     - It was mighty small. n/t  whathehell   Nov-21-08 01:38 PM   #83 
  - They are paying that much in benefits  gravity   Nov-20-08 05:21 PM   #20 
  - Y'know the GM CEO's got about 15.7 million in 07, about $1800/hr ...  struggle4progress   Nov-20-08 05:33 PM   #21 
  - You beat me to it!  OHDEM   Nov-20-08 08:22 PM   #22 
  - And that's nothing to the legions of $500/hour attorneys.  Waiting For Everyman   Nov-21-08 12:28 AM   #28 
  - I'll bet you they included salary wages to come up with that number!  B Calm   Nov-21-08 05:56 AM   #30 
  - So they "only" make $28 an hour? That stills seems awfully high for assembly work  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 06:16 AM   #31 
  - Ah, see there is more NONSENSE  spyrogyra   Nov-21-08 06:53 AM   #34 
  - Workers doing the same type of production work make only a fraction of what UAW members makes  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 07:24 AM   #36 
  - Well, why don't those other workers doing the same type of work form a union?  sinkingfeeling   Nov-21-08 08:14 AM   #47 
     - Most Americans aren't in unions and don't want to be in a union.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 08:25 AM   #50 
        - ..........  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 08:32 AM   #54 
        - Then stop being jealous about union wages and benefits. Unions built this country. And since the  sinkingfeeling   Nov-21-08 09:52 AM   #61 
        - If being in a union meant that my employer had to ask for a $25 billion handout  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 10:28 AM   #62 
           - And if you worked for a bank or financial institution would you be as ashamed that your employer  sinkingfeeling   Nov-21-08 10:43 AM   #63 
           - Yes I would. I hate the fact that the banks were bailed out.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 11:02 AM   #67 
              - Yes, but a different and unfair standard is being applied to the Auto Industry  whathehell   Nov-21-08 01:46 PM   #84 
           - And if it was the unions fault domestic car companies can't make money, maybe you'd have a point  NoGOPZone   Nov-21-08 11:55 AM   #75 
              - Toyota and Honda seem to be doing well enough. At least they haven't asked for a bailout.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 12:11 PM   #76 
              - Toyota and Honda are domestic companies?  NoGOPZone   Nov-21-08 12:23 PM   #77 
              - Yes. Thy both build vehicles in the United States for American customers  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 12:28 PM   #78 
                 - More Disingenuousness. OK, let's go by your standards. How  NoGOPZone   Nov-21-08 12:39 PM   #79 
                    - Because other auto companies make vehicles that people want  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 01:01 PM   #80 
                       - On that we can concur, because it speaks to the REAL problem with the industry  NoGOPZone   Nov-21-08 01:09 PM   #81 
                          - If Detroit was making "cars" and not trucks and/or SUV's, they wouldn't be in trouble right now.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 01:11 PM   #82 
        - Prove it. Because I think you made that up.  EstimatedProphet   Nov-21-08 10:49 AM   #65 
           - When did I say I thought the free market was wonderful?  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 11:05 AM   #68 
              - You shouldn't have to pay for it  EstimatedProphet   Nov-21-08 11:41 AM   #71 
  - Yep and then the tech at the dealership gets paid half that  MindPilot   Nov-21-08 08:36 AM   #56 
  - And a neurosurgeon must poke inside people's brains, and air-  usnret88   Nov-21-08 01:52 PM   #85 
  - 28.00 an hour is not "awfully high"  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 07:16 AM   #35 
  - Relatively speaking it's high in that nobody else in this country doing similar work  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 07:26 AM   #37 
  - So shouldn't we be pushing to raise the wages and benefits of those workers,  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 07:32 AM   #38 
  - I'm not faulting anyone for getting $28 an hour for working an assembly line, but  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 07:43 AM   #40 
     - lack of help will end up with a busted union and those wages dropping to a barely living wage.  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 07:59 AM   #45 
        - $28 an hour is a lot more than a living wage, especially in Michigan  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 08:23 AM   #49 
           - No- it really isn't  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 08:31 AM   #52 
              - Or, it means I just have a different point of view than you.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 08:39 AM   #57 
  - Oh bullshit!  EstimatedProphet   Nov-21-08 10:46 AM   #64 
     - No, what I believe to be "unfair" is requiring people who make far less  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 11:00 AM   #66 
        - Workers didn't cause this bailout!  EstimatedProphet   Nov-21-08 11:45 AM   #72 
  - You nailed it. With extreme prejudice.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Nov-21-08 07:49 AM   #42 
  - You said it, Marrah!  Enthusiast   Nov-21-08 09:25 AM   #60 
  - I have great difficulty believing US$ 53,000 a year for ANY full time job  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Nov-21-08 07:41 AM   #39 
     - Show me one other assembly line job that pays even half of that  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 07:45 AM   #41 
        - You ARE aware you're just confirming Marrah_G's point over and over, aren't you? -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Nov-21-08 07:50 AM   #43 
           - I'm not asking for anyone's wages to go down. I just don't think the federal government  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 07:53 AM   #44 
              - But by saying that you are asking for people wages to go down.  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 08:02 AM   #46 
                 - No I'm not. I'm not the one asking for anything.  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 08:21 AM   #48 
                    - sigh  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 08:28 AM   #51 
                       - Sorry that I don't agree with your point of view. I've never been in a union  Bentcorner   Nov-21-08 08:33 AM   #55 
                          - See- you have a great job- Everyone should have such a good job!  Marrah_G   Nov-21-08 08:50 AM   #58 
  - K&R n/t  cabbage08   Nov-21-08 06:19 AM   #32 
  - Plus, they're double-counting what they should already have paid into in the pension fund.  rucky   Nov-21-08 06:23 AM   #33 
  - K&R. Dig into a talking point, and more times than not - you find a lie.  20score   Nov-21-08 08:32 AM   #53 
  - What part of that figure makes it to the bottom line on the sticker?  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-21-08 11:46 AM   #73 

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