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Reply #162: Funny thing is, we weren't talking about the original Saturns. [View All]

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #149
162. Funny thing is, we weren't talking about the original Saturns.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 08:22 PM by Atman
I mentioned that I was happy with the 2002 L200 we bought for my son to take to school. The respondent said "Good luck with the Saturn" and related his experiences with a car nearly 15 years older.

I don't know what your point is, other than to post that you think I didn't understand what you were saying.

I know that most cars share frames/engines/parts from those made by their corporate parents (Ford-Mazda-Jaguar-Volvo/Chevy-Toyota-Suzuki-Saab). I was simply connecting your comments about the quality of the Saturn to the upthread posts (I mentioned that, right?) about how many people loved their Cobalts. Which are basically just Saturns. Or the other way around.

A surprising number of people don't realize that there are really only a handful of cars with different pig-lipstick.

GM and Ford produce Mazda, Jaguar, Volvo, Saab, Suzuki, and even Toyota vehicles. The people in this thread who keep saying it's just "Detroit's fault" for producing cars no one wanted to buy are buying into a false meme. GM and Ford are helping build many of the cars you're claiming GM hasn't been building.

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  -I'm tired of hearing that Detroit only built crappy cars that no one bought. Atman  Nov-16-08 10:40 AM   #0 
  - i have a cobalt  scarface2004   Nov-16-08 10:42 AM   #1 
  - I really like the cobalt too. I try to get one every time I rent.  gristy   Nov-16-08 10:51 AM   #8 
  - Thanks for buying a Cobalt  monktonman   Nov-16-08 11:33 AM   #35 
     - I'd buy a Cobalt, too...  KansDem   Nov-17-08 09:06 AM   #121 
     - Might get a Cobalt SS Supercharged as my next ride.  EOTE   Nov-17-08 11:53 AM   #133 
        - They make a turbocharged Cobalt now.  CRF450   Nov-17-08 05:23 PM   #146 
        - I saw that.  EOTE   Nov-18-08 11:27 AM   #181 
        - That kind of thinking is why we're running out of oil  hogwyld   Nov-17-08 05:27 PM   #147 
           - High powered engines are way way more effecient than they were 30 years.  CRF450   Nov-17-08 05:52 PM   #154 
           - Still gets about the same fuel economy as the Civic SI.  EOTE   Nov-18-08 11:28 AM   #182 
              - Not to mention, forced induction can make an egine more effecient.  CRF450   Nov-18-08 03:08 PM   #199 
                 - And there is something to be said for torque as well.  EOTE   Nov-18-08 04:09 PM   #200 
                    - Most 4cyl. engines are like that.  CRF450   Nov-18-08 04:28 PM   #202 
                       - Or forced induction.  EOTE   Nov-19-08 09:20 AM   #205 
     - I was impressed by the Cobalt I drove as a rental  semillama   Nov-17-08 11:17 AM   #130 
  - Detroit's financial model is based on selling Stupid Useless Vehicle  Warren Stupidity   Nov-16-08 10:45 AM   #2 
  - "They built crappy cars no one wanted."  Atman   Nov-16-08 10:47 AM   #4 
  - It's kinda like "Nobody goes there anymore because the place is always too crowded..."  TankLV   Nov-16-08 11:03 AM   #18 
  - "and right now nobody is buying them"  Warren Stupidity   Nov-16-08 10:49 AM   #6 
  - No longer true  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 10:56 AM   #11 
  - The parity is for quality at delivery, not reliability over the lifetime of the vehicle  FarCenter   Nov-16-08 11:06 AM   #21 
  - Cost of ownership.  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 11:32 AM   #33 
  - A Suburban is not a car  FarCenter   Nov-16-08 11:56 AM   #40 
  - I had an 84 Escort before the Fusion - the Escort is still on the road  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 12:41 PM   #47 
  - Proper maintenance is the key to long vehicle life.  greguganus   Nov-17-08 07:31 AM   #114 
     - I had a Chevy Nova/Toyota Corolla. Best cheap car ever.  Atman   Nov-18-08 09:44 AM   #177 
  - Exactly. I read "Consumer Reports", not "J D Powers".  FormerRushFan   Nov-16-08 12:10 PM   #45 
  - EXactly  pending   Nov-16-08 05:10 PM   #73 
  - And Yet, Our Experience Is Exactly The Opposite  ProfessorGAC   Nov-18-08 09:33 AM   #174 
  - Guess you've never owned one.  Kalyke   Nov-16-08 11:42 PM   #108 
  - That hasn't been true for a long time.  quiller4   Nov-17-08 05:59 PM   #158 
  - Consumer Reports stopped automatically recommending Toyota's last year.  Atman   Nov-16-08 03:30 PM   #59 
     - Toyota is jumping the shark  GoesTo11   Nov-17-08 08:17 AM   #115 
  - I'll remember that next time I pack my SUV up with food for people  notadmblnd   Nov-16-08 11:13 AM   #24 
  - When anyone makes something I can put my upright bass in  Malidictus Maximus   Nov-16-08 11:45 AM   #36 
     - They are beautiful monstrosities aren't they?  notadmblnd   Nov-16-08 11:53 AM   #39 
  - Right now... no one is buying cars from anywhere.  CANDO   Nov-16-08 12:07 PM   #44 
  - Stupid Useless Vehicles......I own an SUV  carlyhippy   Nov-17-08 08:51 PM   #166 
  - They aren't crappy cars.  Kalyke   Nov-16-08 10:46 AM   #3 
  - That's funny -- on a long, long history of manual transmission foreign cars...  Tesha   Nov-16-08 01:29 PM   #54 
     - My family had a Civic SI that practically ate them.  LeftyMom   Nov-16-08 03:54 PM   #65 
     - How many miles?  JVS   Nov-16-08 05:25 PM   #78 
     - Nope. Not that many miles, either, it was pretty much the backup car  LeftyMom   Nov-16-08 07:31 PM   #88 
     - Clutch lifetime in any vehicle is a function of the driver.  EnviroBat   Nov-17-08 10:02 AM   #123 
     - I had a Civic too  Mystery2Me   Nov-17-08 08:36 PM   #164 
     - One clutch replacement in the course of 13 years is neither unusual nor unreasonable  JVS   Nov-16-08 05:27 PM   #79 
     - Then you didn't drive it correctly.  Kalyke   Nov-16-08 11:43 PM   #109 
        - Brakes? No, not so much brakes either.  Tesha   Nov-17-08 02:00 PM   #136 
  - Recommended - fits hand and glove with something I posted earlier  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 10:49 AM   #5 
  - I'll agree with you there.  Kalyke   Nov-16-08 11:45 PM   #110 
  - "Lost another Billion dollars to DiTech!" n/t  IanDB1   Nov-16-08 10:50 AM   #7 
  - the big three have been dieing foe decades  blueknight   Nov-16-08 10:53 AM   #10 
  - My last two Fords have been a joy  POAS   Nov-16-08 10:51 AM   #9 
  - I Love Our Focus  MannyGoldstein   Nov-16-08 10:56 AM   #12 
  - My next car may be a Focus.  Kalyke   Nov-16-08 11:19 AM   #27 
  - No Manny, its Mazda's have a lot of Fords in them  madokie   Nov-16-08 11:26 AM   #30 
  - It would have been hard not to improve Jaguar's reliability  FarCenter   Nov-16-08 12:02 PM   #42 
  - My 2001 Focus ZX3 is the best car I've ever had.  mwb970   Nov-16-08 12:07 PM   #43 
  - We've got the same car...  whoneedstickets   Nov-17-08 11:57 PM   #170 
  - I have a 2008 Focus and LOVE IT!  Blue Gardener   Nov-16-08 12:59 PM   #50 
  - I picked Fusion over Avalon and glad I did  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 11:02 AM   #16 
  - The Ford Probe is a Mazda  FarCenter   Nov-16-08 11:11 AM   #23 
     - yep...joint venture same as 626  POAS   Nov-16-08 11:23 AM   #28 
  - Lemme see, my first car was a 1941 Buick, and........  suston96   Nov-16-08 10:58 AM   #13 
  - I bought a car last year  globalvillage   Nov-16-08 11:00 AM   #14 
  - Good luck with the Saturn  FarCenter   Nov-16-08 11:01 AM   #15 
  - Wow...  Atman   Nov-16-08 03:43 PM   #62 
  - 90's Saturns did/do burn oil. Switching to a heavier oil or a synthetic helps enormously.  LeftyMom   Nov-16-08 03:56 PM   #66 
  - I have a 98 Saturn SW2  sherbear   Nov-16-08 05:36 PM   #83 
     - On my 3rd Saturn....  PatGund   Nov-16-08 10:51 PM   #99 
     - Agreed about the SL/SC/SW Saturns. The old ones were a mixed bag, but...  Thegonagle   Nov-17-08 05:04 PM   #143 
        - Are you ready? The Chevy Cobalt everyone raves about upthread is a SATURN  Atman   Nov-17-08 05:17 PM   #144 
           - Yes, the Chevy Cobalt and Saturn Ion are similar designs that share a lot of parts,  Thegonagle   Nov-17-08 05:36 PM   #149 
              - Funny thing is, we weren't talking about the original Saturns.  Atman   Nov-17-08 08:20 PM   #162 
  - I have a Chevy car, and I'm quite happy with it  fishwax   Nov-16-08 11:02 AM   #17 
  - My last american car was a 1990 dodge shadow.  LWolf   Nov-16-08 11:04 AM   #19 
  - One of my friends bought an Aveo(sic?) and that car has cost GM another customer.  greyhound1966   Nov-16-08 11:06 AM   #20 
  - Yup, the Daewoo Kalos.  flvegan   Nov-16-08 11:25 AM   #29 
  - She shoulda got a Cobalt, they're 10x better than the Aveo. nt  CRF450   Nov-16-08 08:16 PM   #91 
     - Irrelevant now, she will never buy another GM, and probably any American car now.  greyhound1966   Nov-17-08 04:22 PM   #140 
        - Sounds like she (like many of the posters here,) is looking for an EXCUSE for not supporting labor.  Romulox   Nov-18-08 11:32 AM   #183 
           - Sounds like a woman that got ripped off for thousands of dollars and is not happy about it.  greyhound1966   Nov-18-08 11:45 AM   #184 
              - So she's going to make people who had nothing whatever to do with it PAY!!!???  Romulox   Nov-18-08 11:51 AM   #185 
                 - You're the one that made a completely unwarranted attack on a person you know nothing about.  greyhound1966   Nov-18-08 12:02 PM   #187 
                    - Personal attack? Link?  Romulox   Nov-18-08 12:16 PM   #188 
                       - "Sounds like she is looking for an EXCUSE for not supporting labor."  greyhound1966   Nov-18-08 12:28 PM   #189 
                          - Yeah. That's not a personal attack. nt  Romulox   Nov-18-08 02:09 PM   #196 
  - I had 2 over 10 year old Oldsmobiles and they both ran repair-free and great. nt  MookieWilson   Nov-16-08 11:08 AM   #22 
  - One of my all time favorite cars was my 1988 Olds Touring Sedan.  old mark   Nov-17-08 04:46 PM   #141 
  - Agreed. I've owned 8 GM/Ford cars in my life  flvegan   Nov-16-08 11:18 AM   #25 
  - I'll take a Ford over any of the others,  madokie   Nov-16-08 11:19 AM   #26 
  - My '94 Ford (Eddy Bauer) Explorer went  ben_thayer   Nov-16-08 11:27 AM   #31 
  - does loving my  pansypoo53219   Nov-16-08 11:30 AM   #32 
  - I've got an American car I am very happy with  JNelson6563   Nov-16-08 11:33 AM   #34 
  - this is me with my 2006 Mustang  Gargoyle   Nov-16-08 11:51 AM   #37 
  - Fuckin vandals  CRF450   Nov-16-08 08:37 PM   #95 
  - I'll never forget shopping for a new car with my Mother in 1980!  FredStembottom   Nov-16-08 11:52 AM   #38 
  - Chevette LOL  SmileyRose   Nov-16-08 12:45 PM   #48 
  - I've owned many American made cars and I haven't had one that let me down ever.  TheGoldenRule   Nov-16-08 12:02 PM   #41 
  - I have owned 2 GM vehicles and currently a Volkswagen  tammywammy   Nov-16-08 12:20 PM   #46 
  - i dont like my saturn. at all. liked my gm camero, cavaliar and pontiac ??? cant  seabeyond   Nov-16-08 12:48 PM   #49 
  - .  Blue State Native   Nov-16-08 01:01 PM   #51 
  - I have owned and driven Fords exclusively for 34 years  peanut2010   Nov-16-08 01:01 PM   #52 
  - I've never had a problem with a Ford either.  sufrommich   Nov-17-08 05:31 PM   #148 
  - I have a 12 year old Cavalier and I love the car  cal04   Nov-16-08 01:07 PM   #53 
  - I have always owned American made cars (GM) and have been quite happy with them.  LibInTexas   Nov-16-08 01:35 PM   #55 
  - i LOVED my pacers. if they brought them back i'd buy one again.  QuestionAll   Nov-16-08 01:38 PM   #56 
  - If Ford were to bring the same designs they make for Europe to the US then i  chimpsrsmarter   Nov-16-08 01:59 PM   #57 
  - I think they're going to start selling Fiestas in the US in 2010.  Telly Savalas   Nov-16-08 10:36 PM   #98 
  - If I hear another "Ford = Fix or repair daily" quip I'm gonna go an a rampage.  Odin2005   Nov-16-08 02:15 PM   #58 
  - How about Found On Road Dead?  GrizzlyMan   Nov-16-08 03:37 PM   #60 
  - I'd guess that the mid 90s was when the domestic cars started getting good again.  Odin2005   Nov-16-08 03:51 PM   #64 
  - I know, but my 1984 Ford really *did* leave me stranded a lot.  lildreamer316   Nov-16-08 05:24 PM   #77 
  - Yup...and my 1980's stereo had 1.8% Total Harmonic Distortion.  Atman   Nov-16-08 06:54 PM   #87 
  - Ours too. We had 2 '84s, leased. Longest 4 yrs of my life.  OurVotesCount-Ohio   Nov-17-08 01:05 PM   #135 
  - GMC - Gotta Mechanic Coming  XOKCowboy   Nov-17-08 06:51 PM   #161 
  - Enough people haven't wanted to buy the Big Three that it has seriously hurt their business  MadHound   Nov-16-08 03:42 PM   #61 
  - I've had three American cars.  donco6   Nov-16-08 03:51 PM   #63 
  - I hate to say it on the We Love American Cars thread- but Subaru  LeftyMom   Nov-16-08 04:04 PM   #67 
     - Well, as a Subaru owner, I wouldn't expect you to say anything different!  Atman   Nov-16-08 04:22 PM   #68 
     - I've never owned a Subaru. I drive a Saturn.  LeftyMom   Nov-16-08 04:49 PM   #71 
     - Oops, my bad!  Atman   Nov-16-08 05:49 PM   #84 
     - Driving successfully in the snow is about two things:  Thegonagle   Nov-17-08 05:57 PM   #155 
     - I have a joke....  PatGund   Nov-16-08 10:59 PM   #102 
     - Seems like Subaru is the official car  hogwyld   Nov-17-08 06:41 PM   #159 
  - There was a time when American cars were awesome ...  ColbertWatcher   Nov-16-08 04:32 PM   #69 
  - Exactly how are either of these vehicles better than a full-sized SUV?  Atman   Nov-16-08 05:55 PM   #85 
     - Yes, the cars in the pics in my post are gas guzzlers, but they were made in the 60's-70's.  ColbertWatcher   Nov-16-08 11:04 PM   #103 
        - Todays high perfromance cars are way more effecient than those pictured  CRF450   Nov-17-08 11:49 PM   #169 
  - Their rep came from a few spectacularly bad cars  seasat   Nov-16-08 04:39 PM   #70 
  - I got tired of buying Crappy detroit cars  pending   Nov-16-08 05:08 PM   #72 
  - I have a used Windstar - waiting for the scrappers....  mwooldri   Nov-16-08 05:17 PM   #74 
  - Good post. n/t  OhioChick   Nov-16-08 05:19 PM   #75 
  - Right now I have a 2003 Chevy Impala; because  lildreamer316   Nov-16-08 05:23 PM   #76 
  - Qualified for?  JVS   Nov-16-08 05:28 PM   #80 
     - "Sub prime" car loan.  Atman   Nov-16-08 06:02 PM   #86 
        - Yep; that's about it.  lildreamer316   Nov-16-08 11:24 PM   #106 
        - Hey, it helped us out, too.  Atman   Nov-17-08 06:32 AM   #111 
        - wow  buckettgirl   Nov-17-08 08:57 AM   #119 
           - The 1500 car died three weeks before I bought the new one.  lildreamer316   Nov-17-08 09:54 AM   #122 
              - all i can say  buckettgirl   Nov-17-08 03:33 PM   #139 
                 - You've got to be kidding me.  lildreamer316   Nov-17-08 11:09 PM   #167 
                    - I wasn't dumb. It's easy to be so practical when it doesn't cost you anything, right?  Atman   Nov-18-08 09:28 AM   #173 
        - The "sub-prime" used cars that work well for those loans are generally  Thegonagle   Nov-17-08 05:22 PM   #145 
  - GM should build more of these...  RetroLounge   Nov-16-08 05:33 PM   #81 
  - I have a '98 Chevy Malibu with no problems, and had a lemon Subaru before that.  Waiting For Everyman   Nov-16-08 05:35 PM   #82 
  - I loved my Ford Escape - wish I hadn't sold it. nt  whutgives   Nov-16-08 07:59 PM   #89 
  - Thank you!! Finally an open minded poster brings up this issue.  CRF450   Nov-16-08 08:14 PM   #90 
  - My PT Cruiser is great! Better than my husband's Civic or my old Acura and the Toyota before that.  McCamy Taylor   Nov-16-08 08:23 PM   #92 
  - My old Subaru was crap compared to my Ford Freestyle.  knitter4democracy   Nov-16-08 08:23 PM   #93 
  - I am the opposite  OutspokenLiberal   Nov-16-08 11:12 PM   #105 
     - I was surprised, honestly.  knitter4democracy   Nov-17-08 10:03 AM   #124 
  - You are right..  sendero   Nov-16-08 08:30 PM   #94 
  - I had a 1980 Chevy Monza that lasted 14 years.  azmouse   Nov-16-08 08:44 PM   #96 
  - I've always owned Subarus but...  drumtrip   Nov-16-08 11:06 PM   #104 
  - 1994 Dodge Shadow. Best car I ever owned. Beats my current Corolla by a long shot.  PeterU   Nov-16-08 09:51 PM   #97 
  - Yes, a lot of people bought big trucks and SUVs, thus making the Big Three keep churning out lots  codjh9   Nov-16-08 10:54 PM   #100 
  - Have you seen Toyota's and Nissan's trucks? Some of the biggest things on the road.  Atman   Nov-17-08 07:13 AM   #112 
  - How did they get away with building cars that roll over so easy. Don't tell be their  rhett o rick   Nov-16-08 10:57 PM   #101 
  - It is the high center of gravity on any tall vehicle  kwassa   Nov-17-08 08:32 AM   #116 
     - Thanks but I understand the physics, but my point is that GM and Ford designed and built vehicles  rhett o rick   Nov-17-08 03:15 PM   #137 
        - Cars themselves are inherently dangerous.  Atman   Nov-17-08 03:33 PM   #138 
        - I agree of course that cars are dangerous. My point is that Detroit built  rhett o rick   Nov-17-08 04:51 PM   #142 
        - Its not like they roll over when the driver turns the wheel fast.  CRF450   Nov-17-08 05:49 PM   #153 
  - I have owned GM, Ford and Toyota vehicles.  dugaresa   Nov-16-08 11:31 PM   #107 
  - I drive a 2000 Caravan and it runs great  Marrah_G   Nov-17-08 07:27 AM   #113 
  - My only bad GM car had a Toyota engine that crapped out after 80,000 miles  kwassa   Nov-17-08 08:37 AM   #117 
  - I own 03 Ford Escape and 92 Chevy Lumina  buckettgirl   Nov-17-08 08:37 AM   #118 
  - I'm tired of it being true. nt  Deep13   Nov-17-08 09:01 AM   #120 
  - On Washington Journal This Morning. . .  ProfessorGAC   Nov-17-08 10:05 AM   #125 
  - I am going to get smoked for this, but I believe that the root of  EnviroBat   Nov-17-08 10:22 AM   #126 
  - Which 100k Miles Plastiboxes Would That Be?  ProfessorGAC   Nov-17-08 10:32 AM   #127 
  - Disclamer- Own 2006 Grand Prix  snooper2   Nov-17-08 10:51 AM   #128 
  - My experiences  StreetKnowledge   Nov-17-08 10:51 AM   #129 
  - they killed their succesful electric car program and bought hummer instead.  toadzilla   Nov-17-08 11:25 AM   #131 
  - Yeah,...I had a good laugh the other day at a commercial for a $24,5000 hummer H3  anigbrowl   Nov-18-08 12:49 PM   #190 
  - The electric cars cost $40,000 to buy.  StreetKnowledge   Nov-18-08 12:52 PM   #191 
  - No one is buying a car because no one has a JOB  lib2DaBone   Nov-17-08 11:46 AM   #132 
  - Bought A Used 2005 Buick Century In 2006 And Love It!  Better Believe It   Nov-17-08 12:01 PM   #134 
  - I did not know that they owned Ditech  underpants   Nov-17-08 05:40 PM   #150 
  - I guess that was the point of my OP...  Atman   Nov-17-08 08:32 PM   #163 
     - to add to that  underpants   Nov-17-08 08:42 PM   #165 
  - But marketing campaigns and tax breaks for purchasing gas guzzlers  Overseas   Nov-17-08 05:42 PM   #151 
  - Tax breaks came from the Bush admin, not the car co's  demokatgurrl   Nov-18-08 01:56 PM   #195 
  - Had a '95 Ford Contour V6  sir pball   Nov-17-08 05:43 PM   #152 
  - I love Ford Trucks.  XOKCowboy   Nov-17-08 05:58 PM   #156 
  - I love Ford Trucks.  XOKCowboy   Nov-17-08 05:59 PM   #157 
  - I love my T-bird  Ohio Joe   Nov-17-08 06:45 PM   #160 
  - I only buy American cars myself  HughMoran   Nov-17-08 11:13 PM   #168 
  - We bought a new s10 blazer in 1991 had it up until last year, had 200,000 miles when  madmom   Nov-18-08 12:01 AM   #171 
  - Okay. No one SMART bought Detroit cars.  tomreedtoon   Nov-18-08 12:15 AM   #172 
  - I'm Smart. I Bought Them  ProfessorGAC   Nov-18-08 09:35 AM   #175 
  - You're a fool. That is the only thing you clarified.  Atman   Nov-18-08 09:50 AM   #178 
  - Bad Management Is Right  ProfessorGAC   Nov-18-08 10:01 AM   #180 
  - Lots of SMART people bought Detroit cars.  StreetKnowledge   Nov-18-08 01:00 PM   #192 
     - How's the Pontiac G8?  CRF450   Nov-18-08 03:01 PM   #198 
  - a lot of good lefties rushed out to buy GM's EV-1 electric car. If it was still available...  yurbud   Nov-18-08 09:44 AM   #176 
  - It's generational. Baby Boomers can remember American cars they liked, Xers can't  yurbud   Nov-18-08 09:54 AM   #179 
  - It's REGIONAL. Sunbelt residents feel they can appease the "free market" with a sacrifice  Romulox   Nov-18-08 12:01 PM   #186 
     - Midwest sees it as loyalty to workers, everywhere else sees it as misplaced loyalty to corporations  yurbud   Nov-18-08 01:29 PM   #194 
  - Motorcycles offer an interesting parallel  anigbrowl   Nov-18-08 01:26 PM   #193 
  - Check out the Kawasaki Ninja 650r.  CRF450   Nov-18-08 02:58 PM   #197 
     - I actually have asoft spot for old honda 400/4s...  anigbrowl   Nov-18-08 08:19 PM   #204 
  - they made some pretty good cars, that got crappy gas mileage  leftofthedial   Nov-18-08 04:12 PM   #201 
  - I wish Detroi won't under the depression too much  sray2007   Nov-18-08 04:46 PM   #203 
  - We buy Fords.  MissMarple   Nov-19-08 09:43 AM   #206 
  - Our 1992 Toyota Corolla is still running  LiberalEsto   Nov-19-08 09:52 AM   #207 
  - People want to buy American, unfortunately Amercian car co. CEOs  Lorien   Nov-19-08 09:56 AM   #208 
 

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