renie408
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Sat Nov-08-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
| 47. Really? You REALLY think that the main reason people voted for prop 8 |
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was because of ignorance and not because of their religious beliefs and teachings?
Let me just say that I completely disagree and I think your inability to acknowledge that religion has a large part to play in this is willfully blind.
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| -Why has DU become so mind-bendingly stupid in discussing prop 8? |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 06:28 AM |
#0 |
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The fight to stop Prop 8 in California is still going on in the courts. THEY need donations, too. |
IanDB1 |
Nov-08-08 06:33 AM |
#1 |
| -
. |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 06:37 AM |
#2 |
| -
yet another pompous, longwinded diatribe misreprensenting |
jonnyblitz |
Nov-08-08 06:42 AM |
#3 |
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Good points, somewhat arguable, but good. BUT... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-08-08 06:42 AM |
#4 |
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Because there are lots and lots of racists here who needed an excuse to spew bile |
HamdenRice |
Nov-08-08 06:55 AM |
#5 |
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LOL |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 06:59 AM |
#6 |
| -
Bullshit |
haruka3_2000 |
Nov-08-08 07:12 AM |
#13 |
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The mind reels |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 07:18 AM |
#16 |
| -
Ding ding ding!!!! |
chimpymustgo |
Nov-08-08 09:54 AM |
#59 |
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Yeah - your a dingbat, that's obvious... |
TankLV |
Nov-08-08 01:55 PM |
#130 |
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I do not think it was necessary for you to use a racial slur |
Jamastiene |
Nov-08-08 07:06 AM |
#7 |
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That is your choice and nobody will take that away from you. But you CHOOSE to be offended. |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 07:10 AM |
#10 |
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Yeah! It is way less insulting to lecture people like you are their mother |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 07:07 AM |
#8 |
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I am the stupidest most lecture-y mother on the planet |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 07:21 AM |
#21 |
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So, you don't believe that the majority of churches in this country |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 09:24 AM |
#46 |
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In all fairness, |
Bluenorthwest |
Nov-08-08 11:07 AM |
#82 |
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What we need here is a revival of Unitarian Jihad! |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:25 PM |
#96 |
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And the religious folks who oppose Prop 8 and support equal human rights? |
IronLionZion |
Nov-08-08 11:55 AM |
#90 |
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Every single Episcopal bishop in California came out strongly against Prop 8. |
QC |
Nov-08-08 12:10 PM |
#93 |
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Well gee, if you need to be patted on the back for doing the right thing... |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:06 AM |
#157 |
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The broader the generalization, the narrower the mind |
IronLionZion |
Nov-10-08 08:10 AM |
#173 |
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Exit poll, by religion: |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 07:09 AM |
#9 |
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DING DING DING!! We have ourselves a WINNAH!! n/t |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 07:11 AM |
#11 |
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By the same rationale, you can blame mothers. |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 07:14 AM |
#14 |
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Because if you are going to change it, you have to understand it. |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 07:19 AM |
#17 |
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Specific aspects of religion -were- a primary factor. |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 07:39 AM |
#26 |
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What do you think all of those different demographics have in common? |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 08:24 AM |
#35 |
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As far as the voters? Chiefly ignorance. It's why both sides ran ad campaigns |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 09:21 AM |
#45 |
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Really? You REALLY think that the main reason people voted for prop 8 |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 09:26 AM |
#47 |
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If people vote based on hate spewed from the pulpit, the reason is ignorance |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 09:40 AM |
#50 |
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I find that argument to be sophist. |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 09:50 AM |
#55 |
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And where did the "OFFICIAL" party line come from? |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 10:03 AM |
#70 |
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"Are you saying it is something inherent in religion itself?" |
kgfnally |
Nov-08-08 12:32 PM |
#100 |
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A combination of cherry picking through the Bible, over 2000 years of tradition and the Pope, in |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 03:09 PM |
#146 |
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*crickets* |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:08 AM |
#158 |
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The RW churches played the religon angle for latent |
bluedawg12 |
Nov-08-08 09:57 AM |
#63 |
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people who are married with kids! |
JVS |
Nov-08-08 07:21 AM |
#20 |
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A little bit of maths: |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 07:24 AM |
#23 |
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This is still daft. Having a Y chromosome increases fairness, by your logic |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 07:26 AM |
#25 |
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The correlation with religion is statistically significant; with sex or parenthood it isn't |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 07:51 AM |
#30 |
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By that rationale, bigotry did not exist prior to the GOP, organized religion and politics |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 08:01 AM |
#32 |
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No, by that rationale, the GOP, organized religion and politics *increase* bigotry |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 08:21 AM |
#34 |
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But are the gullible chiefly to blame, or are the instigators? |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 09:32 AM |
#48 |
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There's something in there that goes back to the other part of your OP |
spoony |
Nov-08-08 09:52 AM |
#56 |
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I'd say they share blame, so saying 'the churches are to blame' sums it up well |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 11:10 AM |
#83 |
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In any model some degree of generalization is inevitable, and assumed. |
OmelasExpat |
Nov-08-08 01:05 PM |
#110 |
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Hmmmmmm. That's an interesting point - are the brainwashed guilty? |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:10 AM |
#159 |
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Agreed and thank you for posting the stats |
onefreespiritedchick |
Nov-08-08 09:44 AM |
#52 |
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stock market investors voted against it! Whoo! |
IronLionZion |
Nov-08-08 11:58 AM |
#91 |
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Where is there bigotry against religious folks? |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 02:45 PM |
#142 |
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The blanket statements condemning religion include those who were against Prop 8. |
IronLionZion |
Nov-08-08 05:01 PM |
#154 |
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Religion is a delivery system, the vehicle more than the tenor. |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:48 PM |
#108 |
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35-36% is not the same as 0%. nt |
mcg |
Nov-08-08 01:24 PM |
#115 |
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See reply #23 (nt) |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 02:46 PM |
#143 |
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Because we're all Trotskyites at heart |
dmesg |
Nov-08-08 07:11 AM |
#12 |
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No. People are attacking each other because an entire segment of the DU |
renie408 |
Nov-08-08 07:16 AM |
#15 |
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Thank you for this! |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 07:20 AM |
#18 |
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Dupe! n/t |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 07:21 AM |
#19 |
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Sure thing |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 07:22 AM |
#22 |
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I beg to differ with you. |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 07:48 AM |
#28 |
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DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Great point. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:12 AM |
#160 |
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Just to add something further |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 08:04 AM |
#33 |
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I agree with you which may surprise you |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 08:56 AM |
#36 |
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It's really not a matter of pointing it out. |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 09:10 AM |
#39 |
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They have every reason to be concerned about those that are |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 09:14 AM |
#41 |
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Please try harder and encourage DU members that feel the |
goclark |
Nov-08-08 09:15 AM |
#42 |
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And you will you do the same for those DUers who are calling us bigots, racists and scapegoaters? |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 09:18 AM |
#44 |
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I certainly will and have - that is why I have given huge donations |
goclark |
Nov-08-08 09:37 AM |
#49 |
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Your post is "telling" as well ... |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 09:43 AM |
#51 |
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hippywife, I appreciate your words immensely... |
Psyop Samurai |
Nov-08-08 09:06 AM |
#37 |
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I can't say I can always do it |
hippywife |
Nov-08-08 10:41 AM |
#76 |
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Talk about anger and hurting no one but yourself... |
Psyop Samurai |
Nov-08-08 11:45 AM |
#87 |
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I like your focus on ignorance and bigotry. |
JohnnyLib2 |
Nov-08-08 07:26 AM |
#24 |
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Let me reduce your point: gays and their supporters who are pissed off about prop 8 are stupid. |
readmoreoften |
Nov-08-08 07:42 AM |
#27 |
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Anger is justified. I just don't see any reason to misdirect it. |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 07:51 AM |
#29 |
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interesting |
mbergen |
Nov-08-08 07:54 AM |
#31 |
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There Is Not A Thing Wrong With Identifying The Largest Subgroups Requiring Further Persuasion. |
OPERATIONMINDCRIME |
Nov-08-08 09:07 AM |
#38 |
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screaming "nigger" at a black gay couple who showed up to help protest... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 01:36 PM |
#119 |
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That is contemptible behavior. No one I know would condone or ignore that. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 02:34 PM |
#139 |
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Uh, nader just made it easier for the ignorant to blame nader. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:13 AM |
#162 |
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for some reason they want to blame black people despite the fact that they made up only 10% |
book_worm |
Nov-08-08 09:13 AM |
#40 |
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A core constituency of the Democratic party voted 70% in favor to remove rights for gays. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 11:34 AM |
#86 |
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Exactly |
gaspee |
Nov-08-08 12:28 PM |
#97 |
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Yes, people have blamed black voters for the passage of this POS. |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:42 PM |
#103 |
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Evil is perpetrated by people who know exactly what they're doing. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 01:09 PM |
#111 |
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Culture blindness. And those votes don't need to be palatable. |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 01:11 PM |
#113 |
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You are Dangerous 94114 |
publichealthnut1 |
Nov-08-08 01:33 PM |
#118 |
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And I want to keep them as a core constituency. |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 01:46 PM |
#124 |
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The Democrats lost them to the Mormons on this issue. What's next? |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 02:14 PM |
#135 |
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what's next is we try to find a way out the current crisis.. |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 02:47 PM |
#144 |
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I'm sorry, but if you do the math, the margin that the proposition was passed is equal |
boloboffin |
Nov-08-08 04:29 PM |
#150 |
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'Twas the darkies?... OMFG! |
Psyop Samurai |
Nov-08-08 09:17 AM |
#43 |
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There are probably a couple dozen threads on this subject right now. |
eowyn_of_rohan |
Nov-08-08 09:45 AM |
#53 |
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Yes, let's not muddy up the board with civil rights issues |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 09:46 AM |
#54 |
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THis is a very unfortunate thing that happened |
eowyn_of_rohan |
Nov-08-08 09:53 AM |
#58 |
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Again, if a few are blaming an entire race, they are wrong |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 09:55 AM |
#60 |
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Huh? Who's scapegoating you? surely not I. I think voting corruption is to blame |
eowyn_of_rohan |
Nov-08-08 09:58 AM |
#64 |
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Read some threads |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 10:00 AM |
#65 |
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Yep, that's what we are... |
Psyop Samurai |
Nov-08-08 10:23 AM |
#74 |
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If you think THIS is demoralizing, try having your civil rights eliminated. |
mondo joe |
Nov-08-08 11:05 AM |
#81 |
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IT SUCKS |
eowyn_of_rohan |
Nov-08-08 11:15 AM |
#85 |
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there needs to be a seperate "prop 8" forum until this shit settles down. |
QuestionAll |
Nov-08-08 09:53 AM |
#57 |
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I totally agree-nt |
eowyn_of_rohan |
Nov-08-08 09:55 AM |
#61 |
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How dare people discuss civil rights on a progressive politics forum! |
QC |
Nov-08-08 09:55 AM |
#62 |
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apparently only white conservapigs can be homophobic. |
bluedawg12 |
Nov-08-08 10:00 AM |
#66 |
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Let's sit down and shut up and maybe we will get a nice pat on the head. n/t |
QC |
Nov-08-08 10:01 AM |
#67 |
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actually, it should be a sub-set of the california forum. |
QuestionAll |
Nov-08-08 10:03 AM |
#68 |
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This is post Prop 8 - we are discussing civil rights issues |
bluedawg12 |
Nov-08-08 10:05 AM |
#71 |
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"it doesn't really concern the other 49 states" |
QC |
Nov-08-08 10:08 AM |
#72 |
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The search function is your friend. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 12:20 PM |
#95 |
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Funny, isn't it, how some people can always be counted on to show up in gay-related threads |
QC |
Nov-08-08 12:30 PM |
#99 |
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you could try explaining how it has anything to do with voters in other states... |
QuestionAll |
Nov-09-08 04:13 PM |
#171 |
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Similar measures passed in Florida and Arizona |
muriel_volestrangler |
Nov-08-08 11:02 AM |
#80 |
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As a native Californian in exile |
Bluenorthwest |
Nov-08-08 11:47 AM |
#88 |
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Um, equal rights for all concerns all Americans. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:15 AM |
#163 |
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definitely- but there's nothing i can do about it as an illinois voter. |
QuestionAll |
Nov-09-08 04:11 PM |
#170 |
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Seperate but equal forum? |
bluedawg12 |
Nov-08-08 10:03 AM |
#69 |
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We're not going away |
crappyjazz |
Nov-08-08 10:11 AM |
#73 |
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well, then maybe there should be a PERMANENT prop 8 forum. |
QuestionAll |
Nov-08-08 10:48 AM |
#77 |
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Or maybe you could learn how to scroll past threads that don't interest you. n/t |
QC |
Nov-08-08 10:50 AM |
#78 |
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Hey Einstein, maybe you could use the "hide thread" function? (nt) |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 01:29 PM |
#116 |
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We're not going away. Get fucking used to it. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:17 AM |
#164 |
| -
GD:P -> Prop 8? |
Taverner |
Nov-08-08 12:46 PM |
#106 |
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IDEA: Maybe you could just leave for a while until it all "settles down"? |
Bluebear |
Nov-08-08 03:17 PM |
#148 |
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Right...the gays should just shut up about being scapegoated themselves |
kevinbgoode |
Nov-08-08 10:28 AM |
#75 |
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"OMG! It was the religionz!" |
tjwash |
Nov-08-08 10:58 AM |
#79 |
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Specific religious leaders are absolutely to blame. |
jpgray |
Nov-08-08 11:11 AM |
#84 |
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Oh hell yes! Justify that bigotry with evidence! |
IronLionZion |
Nov-08-08 12:04 PM |
#92 |
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Become? DUers were always into mindless infighting and ridiculous witch hunts |
IronLionZion |
Nov-08-08 11:51 AM |
#89 |
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Hey all you gay people! Shut the fuck up, you're destroying the illusion of party unity. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 12:14 PM |
#94 |
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Snort. Exactly |
gaspee |
Nov-08-08 12:34 PM |
#101 |
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Yes. |
Ellen Forradalom |
Nov-08-08 12:48 PM |
#107 |
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Prescient, indeed. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 04:54 PM |
#153 |
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Yep |
Ellen Forradalom |
Nov-08-08 12:45 PM |
#104 |
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Well said. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 04:48 PM |
#152 |
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If the choices are scapegoating and silence, we need to develop better choices. |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:54 PM |
#109 |
| -
OMG He is so hot when he's radical |
publichealthnut1 |
Nov-08-08 01:36 PM |
#120 |
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Party unity? Many of the loudest voices in this uproar swore months ago... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 01:41 PM |
#122 |
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You have an amazing ability to state the obvious. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 01:55 PM |
#129 |
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I posted a discussion of how Connecticut Vote No stopped a similar effort in CT... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 02:36 PM |
#140 |
| -
NOW we "have a winner"... |
TankLV |
Nov-08-08 01:57 PM |
#132 |
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Wish I could rec your reply! |
LeftCoast |
Nov-09-08 01:17 AM |
#165 |
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HA! if they think we will, they should have their heads examined. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:19 AM |
#166 |
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I want to get beyond the bs and find out stuff. Like, what happened in L.A. County? |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:29 PM |
#98 |
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Good points, although a certain amount of deflection. I don't blame mormons, per se.... |
Raster |
Nov-08-08 12:34 PM |
#102 |
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Not only Mormons but also dominionists like Eric Prince's mother. |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 12:45 PM |
#105 |
| -
Scapegoat? |
GreenFiles |
Nov-08-08 01:11 PM |
#112 |
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If you've read any of the 2,000 threads on this topic |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 01:14 PM |
#114 |
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Among core Democratic constituencies there's a profound disconnect. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 01:39 PM |
#121 |
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It's the "question" because you are privileging that frame |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 01:46 PM |
#125 |
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Yeah, but here's the thing; NOT ONE AFRICAN-AMERICAN SHOULD HAVE VOTED YES. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:22 AM |
#167 |
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Because it is another Divide and Conquer issue for the Freeper moles to exploit |
McCamy Taylor |
Nov-08-08 01:29 PM |
#117 |
| -
Sorry but it all boils down to fundie whack jobs who seek to control the entire planet. |
TheGoldenRule |
Nov-08-08 01:42 PM |
#123 |
| -
and we must never underestimate their vast resources |
publichealthnut1 |
Nov-08-08 01:49 PM |
#127 |
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Most people here on DU choose to ignore the fundie underpinnings of Obama's campaign. |
TheGoldenRule |
Nov-08-08 02:04 PM |
#134 |
| -
Core issues DO count -- underlying problems |
publichealthnut1 |
Nov-08-08 01:48 PM |
#126 |
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When the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of a group votes a particular |
TankLV |
Nov-08-08 01:54 PM |
#128 |
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To overlook the vast majority in service of scapegoating a very small minority |
sfexpat2000 |
Nov-08-08 02:18 PM |
#136 |
| -
A more accurate summarization does not exist. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 02:25 PM |
#137 |
| -
Hear Hear... nt |
curse of greyface |
Nov-08-08 02:26 PM |
#138 |
| -
In effect, you're demanding that we single out blacks, and push them out of the party. |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-08-08 02:41 PM |
#141 |
| -
Where does the post say that? We're asking for fucking JUSTICE and ACCOUNTABILITY. |
94114_San_Francisco |
Nov-08-08 04:18 PM |
#149 |
| -
Thank you Tank! |
Raster |
Nov-09-08 05:24 PM |
#172 |
| -
Perhaps as would a ballerina @ a strange recital; we'll take 2nd position 1st... |
bridgit |
Nov-08-08 01:56 PM |
#131 |
| -
This keeps reminding me of the log cabin Republicans. |
Waiting For Everyman |
Nov-08-08 02:03 PM |
#133 |
| -
spell it again ....... WEDGE ISSUE |
TWiley |
Nov-08-08 03:07 PM |
#145 |
| -
Religion had everything to do with Prop 8 passing.... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-08-08 03:14 PM |
#147 |
| -
And wrongly so at that. If it were solely a religious institution, there'd be no married atheists. |
Zhade |
Nov-09-08 01:25 AM |
#168 |
| -
Damn, you mean to tell me that there is still intellectual honest and thinking people here at DU on |
IsItJustMe |
Nov-08-08 04:36 PM |
#151 |
| -
Religion can be a buttress for ignorance. |
D23MIURG23 |
Nov-09-08 01:01 AM |
#155 |
| -
In a way, it was religion. |
Lumpsum |
Nov-09-08 01:04 AM |
#156 |
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Your apologies are simplistic. |
ColbertWatcher |
Nov-09-08 01:12 AM |
#161 |
| -
Thank you! Your points are spot on! This was a highly organized attempt to TAKE AWAY legal |
Raster |
Nov-09-08 11:52 AM |
#169 |
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