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Reply #22: What I find really discouraging [View All]

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep-09-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. What I find really discouraging
is watching the reaction to the demonstrations at the RNC.

The right-wing reaction is "dirty, smelly, unemployed hippies who should have been shot."

The left-wing reaction is "Since when is free speech a crime, and what about the possibility of police provocateurs?"

The "moderate" reaction is, "Well, I believe in free speech and everything, but those protesters shouldn't have thrown stuff." (This is even though the violence started after the main protest was over.)

Neither the right-wing nor the "moderate" group seems willing to even consider the possibility of police or FBI provocateurs, despite clear historical precedents.

There's a deep authoritarian streak in the American psyche, and all that is required for taking another step toward fascism is to push the right buttons.

It's scary, because one of the insidious things about fascism as seen in 1970s Latin America or pre-war Japan is that most people are able to get on with their lives, and the government provides them with handy scapegoats to explain their economic misery.
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  I knew it was going to happen, but it still hurts like hell to watch it in slow motion. tom_paine  Sep-09-08 12:25 PM   #0 
   Yes, wholesale electoral fraud is 100% proven. don't know why you would say otherwise.  robinlynne   Sep-09-08 12:26 PM   #1 
   For the sake of argument I said that. I happen to agree with you and said so further down my OP.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 12:43 PM   #6 
   yes, but we're working on it.... as hard as we can.  robinlynne   Sep-09-08 01:06 PM   #19 
      Thank you and God bless you for your efforts.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 01:33 PM   #30 
   Our democrats hold a lot of blame for this corrupted electronic voting  Pete2069   Sep-09-08 04:37 PM   #78 
      Pete, forget Mikulski  Janeite   Sep-09-08 06:36 PM   #112 
      yes, they have been entirely complacent.  toadzilla   Sep-10-08 12:51 AM   #177 
      But don't you have a dem governor now?  BonnieJW   Sep-10-08 11:01 AM   #256 
         DEM's swept Ohio in 06  ohioINC   Sep-10-08 09:08 PM   #296 
   McPalin. I won't be surprised.  Blue State Native   Sep-09-08 12:28 PM   #2 
   We waited too long..but I still have hope...I refuse to give that up yet..  AuntPatsy   Sep-09-08 12:30 PM   #3 
   You're fooling yourself...  deutsey   Sep-09-08 03:38 PM   #63 
      Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:53 PM   #66 
         Bloody peasant!  deutsey   Sep-09-08 04:16 PM   #70 
            OH! Did you hear that? That's what I'm on about!  FiveGoodMen   Sep-09-08 04:24 PM   #74 
            That line crossed my mind when I heard reports of the anti-democracy crackdown there  deutsey   Sep-09-08 04:30 PM   #76 
            "You mean you rule because some watery tart gave you a knife?"  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 04:42 PM   #79 
               Watery Tart...  Cid_B   Sep-10-08 12:43 AM   #176 
                  Watery Tart  Moistened Bint   Sep-10-08 12:07 PM   #273 
                     LOL! I'd forgotten that one.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:23 PM   #276 
            I lived in Mn for 15 years before moving 22 months ago....and I  snappyturtle   Sep-09-08 08:17 PM   #126 
               "I think last week was ... a test to see how much the people will tolerate"  FiveGoodMen   Sep-09-08 08:48 PM   #131 
                  I read a bit of the comments section....boy oh boy!  snappyturtle   Sep-09-08 09:48 PM   #135 
                  Unbelievable, isn't it?  fudge stripe cookays   Sep-09-08 10:07 PM   #136 
                     Yes, it's totally unbelieveable! What do these naysayers think  snappyturtle   Sep-10-08 06:29 AM   #207 
                        Actually that would make for a fun faux-article  kenfrequed   Sep-10-08 09:45 AM   #241 
                  Comments section is 4 to 1 in favor of the protestors  GoneOffShore   Sep-10-08 09:09 AM   #232 
            did you hear him  pc1971   Sep-09-08 09:43 PM   #133 
   Is there an RU - Realist Underground website available for me to peruse?  Stanchetalarooni   Sep-09-08 12:30 PM   #4 
   Rec - spot on, tom  TOJ   Sep-09-08 12:31 PM   #5 
   if you do want Obama to get elected  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-09-08 12:44 PM   #7 
   Bullshit  seemslikeadream   Sep-09-08 12:45 PM   #8 
   reality? Like Hillary Clinton will be our Democratic nominee?  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-09-08 12:53 PM   #13 
   It wouldn't have mattered if it was Hillary or Jesus Christ.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 01:06 PM   #18 
   "...they could run a ham sandwich against Jesus Christ and win by their usual 0.05-3%."  live love laugh   Sep-09-08 04:58 PM   #83 
   and like clockwork every fucking election The Democrats CAVE  leftchick   Sep-09-08 06:05 PM   #104 
      it's  amborin   Sep-10-08 01:23 AM   #183 
         I agree, the media plays the biggest role in our elections  liberal N proud   Sep-10-08 06:48 AM   #208 
         election fraud could not exist without the media complicity for sure  leftchick   Sep-10-08 08:31 AM   #224 
   KEEP WORKING!!!!!!!!  glinda   Sep-10-08 10:52 AM   #252 
   I agree. n/t  Stand and Fight   Sep-09-08 11:29 PM   #153 
   I lived in totalitarian systems  nadinbrzezinski   Sep-10-08 02:26 AM   #186 
   "if you are prepared you can better react and make that reality you hope for"  kayell   Sep-10-08 06:22 AM   #205 
   hoping for sunshine, preparing for rain  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-10-08 11:17 AM   #260 
   ...  redqueen   Sep-10-08 11:20 AM   #261 
   Except for the lack of hope stuff, maybe.  Orsino   Sep-10-08 08:44 AM   #226 
   I knew someone somewhere would post something like this. It's OK. Really.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 12:53 PM   #12 
   it was a slow car crash reading your post, lol  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-09-08 01:07 PM   #20 
   Oh, we probably don't want to talk about the debates and what they mean (or don't mean)  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 01:22 PM   #25 
      the picture..  dana_b   Sep-09-08 01:54 PM   #35 
      No, the answer is that Bush looks like a giant comapred to Kerry.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 02:17 PM   #41 
         wow - people are easily manipulated then  dana_b   Sep-09-08 03:02 PM   #51 
            You are fully missing the point and I have no desire to verbally spar further with you  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:16 PM   #53 
            wow - and you're missing the point  dana_b   Sep-09-08 05:20 PM   #95 
               In that event it is me who is sorry for jumping to conclusions.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 05:49 PM   #101 
                  thanks!  dana_b   Sep-09-08 06:14 PM   #108 
            Yes, they "knew" intellectually that Kerry is the taller man,  Raksha   Sep-09-08 07:09 PM   #116 
               I got curious and check to see how much Bush's picture had been enlarged and in which directions  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 07:22 PM   #118 
                  "And not a single person but for me noticed."  redqueen   Sep-10-08 11:36 AM   #264 
                     I guess I do mean in the room that I watched, and everyone I have every talked to about it since.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 02:24 PM   #285 
                        Yes... something is very, very wrong.  redqueen   Sep-10-08 02:53 PM   #289 
      This photo comparison is being RESURRECTED today by NBC (Brian Williams) but Obama-McAnus are the  bertman   Sep-10-08 11:58 PM   #298 
   Reality is the observance of the present.  Stand and Fight   Sep-09-08 11:33 PM   #155 
      I think you are both right and wrong there.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:01 AM   #167 
         Pardon my naivete, but I thought totalitarinaism relied on the  Flatulo   Sep-10-08 01:01 PM   #283 
            You wouldn't try to sell kosher hot dogs in Cairo or Baghdad, would you?  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 03:52 PM   #291 
   He IS on our side -- about time someone on here woke up to reality...  Imagine My Surprise   Sep-09-08 01:05 PM   #16 
   it is not a football game  Two Americas   Sep-09-08 04:22 PM   #73 
   May I ask how old you are? nt  snappyturtle   Sep-09-08 08:21 PM   #127 
   30  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-10-08 11:13 AM   #259 
      I'm glad you answered. You're the age of my "kids"...30 & 32. They  snappyturtle   Sep-10-08 05:54 PM   #294 
         so understandable  Scriptor Ignotus   Sep-11-08 01:26 PM   #303 
   I approve of this post.  kayell   Sep-10-08 06:16 AM   #204 
   I agree with you, those kind of posts are bullshit. Hell, there was nothing in there that we all  EV_Ares   Sep-10-08 12:31 PM   #278 
   yes. The reaction to the 'puke convention  bbgrunt   Sep-09-08 12:48 PM   #9 
   "Facing this and still resisting is the measure of one's mettle." well said. nt  glitch   Sep-09-08 01:04 PM   #15 
   definitely good work  dana_b   Sep-09-08 01:57 PM   #36 
   There is just one thing wrong with that essay  Sonicmedusa   Sep-09-08 12:51 PM   #10 
   Thanks for the correction. YES I meant to say the invasion of Ossetia.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 01:41 PM   #32 
      Don't you hate that?  Stand and Fight   Sep-09-08 11:35 PM   #158 
      Thank you.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:21 AM   #173 
      One issue overrides all-ABORTION  olegramps   Sep-10-08 10:32 AM   #248 
         .  fudge stripe cookays   Sep-11-08 06:24 AM   #302 
   I understand your need to prepare emotionally for the worst.  smoogatz   Sep-09-08 12:52 PM   #11 
   The Bushies could care less about damaging foreign policy blunders, or haven't you noticed?  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 01:49 PM   #34 
      Most Americans have no idea where Ossetia is, or who invaded what first.  smoogatz   Sep-09-08 02:05 PM   #39 
      Sigh. You know that you are right in what you say...and yet it still doesn't matter.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 02:27 PM   #43 
      Look at it this way....  demilib   Sep-09-08 05:04 PM   #86 
         Yecch. No thanks. n/t  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 05:52 PM   #102 
      most americans do  amborin   Sep-10-08 01:30 AM   #184 
      Right and wrong. Muricans couldn't care less where Georgia is  nadinbrzezinski   Sep-10-08 02:31 AM   #188 
      "own minds are so staggered by the enormity and villainy of it"  TOJ   Sep-09-08 02:40 PM   #45 
   It is disheartening seeing the same old moves come out to play  glitch   Sep-09-08 12:57 PM   #14 
   A certain John Carpenter film comes to mind...  beam me up scottie   Sep-09-08 01:05 PM   #17 
   The OP is right.  Tutankhamun   Sep-09-08 01:09 PM   #21 
   What I find really discouraging  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-09-08 01:11 PM   #22 
   The little red flags are almost more alarming than the big ones.  sfexpat2000   Sep-09-08 01:33 PM   #31 
   I'm not sure I agree with the significance of Palin. I think it was a simple marketing decision.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 02:02 PM   #38 
      The marketing aspect is clear, which is why I suggested Caribou Barbie  sfexpat2000   Sep-09-08 02:14 PM   #40 
   One minute now...  Stand and Fight   Sep-09-08 11:47 PM   #162 
   I don't know  ismnotwasm   Sep-09-08 01:15 PM   #23 
   but will they turn out?  susanwy   Sep-09-08 07:35 PM   #121 
   I'm with you on every point.  Stand and Fight   Sep-09-08 11:52 PM   #166 
      I am not convinced by the cell-phone argument  ZombyWoof   Sep-11-08 12:12 AM   #299 
   We're doomed! DOOMED!!!!  BlooInBloo   Sep-09-08 01:16 PM   #24 
   No but the weed seed of FASCISM is always there  seemslikeadream   Sep-09-08 01:24 PM   #27 
   I sense the same thing  Annces   Sep-09-08 01:24 PM   #26 
   This is the dying of the age of Aquarius  Philosoraptor   Sep-09-08 01:25 PM   #28 
   K&R  alfredo   Sep-09-08 01:26 PM   #29 
   Not all that slow. The campaigning has been going on for 3 years.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-09-08 01:46 PM   #33 
   K & R.  greyhound1966   Sep-09-08 02:02 PM   #37 
   He is one of THOUSANDS of WWII victims and survivors who feel the same way  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 02:35 PM   #44 
      I know two direct survivors and my mom  nadinbrzezinski   Sep-10-08 02:50 AM   #193 
   They only thing I fear is election fraud.  AtomicKitten   Sep-09-08 02:20 PM   #42 
   What tom is saying is that all the other machinery makes blatant fraud unneccessary  TOJ   Sep-09-08 02:46 PM   #47 
      The GOP is already purging voting roles as we speak.  AtomicKitten   Sep-09-08 03:44 PM   #65 
   Republicans believe people's vices determine their behavior rather than their virtues  entanglement   Sep-09-08 02:44 PM   #46 
   No, they believe Dems are subhuman  TOJ   Sep-09-08 02:48 PM   #48 
   I Think You Are Wrong...Obama will win...Life will get better  masmdu   Sep-09-08 02:52 PM   #49 
   Let's hope so. That certainly is my preferred outcome.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:10 PM   #52 
   I wrote pretty much the same thing and my OP was diverted to the Siberian 9/11 forum.  David Zephyr   Sep-09-08 02:58 PM   #50 
   It is Sept 9  treestar   Sep-09-08 03:17 PM   #54 
   I said in my OP I am not advocating giving up. Making observations is not advocating giving up.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:19 PM   #56 
   Very insightful and rational view, but then we have to ask why are people agreeable...  galileoreloaded   Sep-09-08 03:18 PM   #55 
   Pretty damned insightful reply, yourself. Inetersting perspective.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:31 PM   #62 
   Thanks for the kind words.  galileoreloaded   Sep-09-08 03:59 PM   #69 
      Could you elaborate just a bit more? You lost me a little.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 04:53 PM   #82 
   Catastrophic economic collapse enabled FDR's reforms, but  Fiendish Thingy   Sep-09-08 04:21 PM   #71 
      Very true. So much depends on a nation's "at the moment" psychology.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 05:00 PM   #85 
   Nothing slow motion about it...  Javaman   Sep-09-08 03:19 PM   #57 
   Coincidence Theorists - I love it!  Taverner   Sep-09-08 03:24 PM   #58 
   K&R+ an archived thread  bobthedrummer   Sep-09-08 03:24 PM   #59 
   It's so depressing. But this is what happens when your own leaders won't fight back.  Joanne98   Sep-09-08 03:24 PM   #60 
   Sadly, there is nothing new about this.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 03:42 PM   #64 
   Agreed BUT we must also work like hell to prevent it  Taverner   Sep-09-08 03:27 PM   #61 
   If everybody that wants to legally vote for Obama was allowed to do so...  antiwarwarrior   Sep-09-08 03:57 PM   #67 
   Have we forgotten the past?  sattahipdeep   Sep-09-08 03:57 PM   #68 
   That was simultaneously sickening and incredibly inspiring.  paparush   Sep-10-08 09:04 AM   #230 
   In this post you are actively promoting what you purport to despise.  bigmonkey   Sep-09-08 04:21 PM   #72 
   I am going to try very hard to reply to you in a civil fashion, though your post warrants being  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 05:38 PM   #97 
      Well, hello!  bigmonkey   Sep-09-08 06:52 PM   #114 
         Thank you for your civil reply. As I said above, I am beyond caring about motivating  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 07:36 PM   #122 
            Civility is good, within reason, but ...  bigmonkey   Sep-11-08 03:15 PM   #304 
   I hear ya - right now palin AND her hubby are signing autographs  katty   Sep-09-08 04:27 PM   #75 
   Keeping negative thoughts to oneself sometimes can be helpful...  Imagevision   Sep-09-08 04:36 PM   #77 
   yeah, wouldn't want any of that nasty truthiness around, would we.  FarceOfNature   Sep-09-08 05:04 PM   #87 
      yeah, the ugly truthiness is a harsh teacher-but we learn  katty   Sep-09-08 05:08 PM   #91 
         The idea people have fearful brain farts and should try them out silently was the point  nolabels   Sep-10-08 01:43 AM   #185 
            How much do you take before common sense rebels?  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 07:12 AM   #211 
               To me, It doesn't matter WTF * and the minions thinks of what i and others think  nolabels   Sep-10-08 09:32 AM   #238 
   I joined DU in order to read the unvarnished truth.  EmeraldCityGrl   Sep-09-08 04:43 PM   #80 
   (belated) welcome to DU  FarceOfNature   Sep-09-08 05:05 PM   #88 
      Thank you for the welcome:)  EmeraldCityGrl   Sep-09-08 05:43 PM   #99 
   I can't say it, but we all know what we have to do.  screembloodymurder   Sep-09-08 04:44 PM   #81 
   By any means necessary.  NOLALady   Sep-09-08 06:30 PM   #111 
   I agree 100%. Even if Obama is the populists' dream so many want him to be...  FarceOfNature   Sep-09-08 05:00 PM   #84 
   He turned me into a newt.  deaniac21   Sep-09-08 05:05 PM   #89 
   "If she is heavier than a duck, she's a witch!"  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 06:01 PM   #103 
      I got better.  deaniac21   Sep-09-08 11:35 PM   #156 
   I just wonder why they keep trying to cover it up--they have absolute control  live love laugh   Sep-09-08 05:07 PM   #90 
   all staging, like the Third Reich-it has to "look" like its a real  katty   Sep-09-08 05:10 PM   #92 
   My take on it is this. It's the same reason Caesar dared not declare himself king.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 06:05 PM   #105 
      indeed it is - selling the 'ideal' of freedom & endless repeats  katty   Sep-09-08 06:18 PM   #109 
   October surprises WILL happen.  G_j   Sep-09-08 05:13 PM   #93 
   this i believe. nt  tomp   Sep-09-08 05:41 PM   #98 
   98% certainty.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 06:06 PM   #106 
   I hate you  donheld   Sep-09-08 05:16 PM   #94 
   (whimpers) Don't hate the messenger.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 06:09 PM   #107 
   Read Herve Kempf's "How the Rich Are Destroying the Earth."  DemoTex   Sep-09-08 05:36 PM   #96 
   My gut feeling all along is that you are right.  8_year_nightmare   Sep-09-08 05:45 PM   #100 
   The very fact that we're discussing Palin is depressing  nichomachus   Sep-09-08 06:25 PM   #110 
   It's not going to happen. We're going to make McCain/Palin implode.  chill_wind   Sep-09-08 06:51 PM   #113 
   God I hope you are right. But at this point I have to see it to believe it.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 07:45 PM   #124 
   GET OUT THE VOTE..... even the GOP may fear PALIN!!!!! pSYCho jOHn may even have scared THEM!!!!  happygoluckytoyou   Sep-09-08 07:03 PM   #115 
   Damn... somebody had to say it  Gman   Sep-09-08 07:19 PM   #117 
   K & R, even though this thread is depressing the hell out of me.  Raksha   Sep-09-08 07:28 PM   #119 
   You pretty much got it  Mike Nelson   Sep-09-08 07:33 PM   #120 
   I just had the same conversation  maxpower   Sep-09-08 07:44 PM   #123 
   I weep for the country I once knew. Whodathunk Humpty Dumpty would be a history lesson? nt  live love laugh   Sep-09-08 08:22 PM   #128 
   IMHO We're more like Saudi Arabia. Oh that can't be...can it?  bluesmail   Sep-09-08 07:47 PM   #125 
   Voter purging has started...and today New Jersey sends out 300,000  keepCAblue   Sep-09-08 08:32 PM   #129 
   This all could have been stopped with a strong candidate like Gore or Edwards. I'm talking landslide  TheGoldenRule   Sep-09-08 08:32 PM   #130 
   I've thought the same thing myself to be honest. It seems we could have run the  Ragazz68   Sep-09-08 10:54 PM   #146 
   Not from me - I totally agree with you, but hope that we're both wrong...  TankLV   Sep-09-08 11:44 PM   #160 
   Agreed !....It's The Alchemy of truth......  Ragazz68   Sep-09-08 09:14 PM   #132 
   Even on the News Hour with Jim Lehrer,  Uncle Joe   Sep-09-08 09:44 PM   #134 
   You are not alone...I am firmly convinced this election will be stolen  katandmoon   Sep-09-08 10:08 PM   #137 
   I'm not convinced, but I do fear it will happen  MiniMe   Sep-10-08 12:14 AM   #172 
      The repugs are already practicing their excuse for that -- same one they used in 2004  katandmoon   Sep-10-08 09:13 AM   #234 
   Thought provoking.  brokensymmetry   Sep-09-08 10:16 PM   #138 
   Neither should this thread be construed as an advocation of giving up or not voting.  ZombieHorde   Sep-09-08 10:29 PM   #139 
   LOL. Excellent post. Nice shot you took at me. A little nitpicky on the grammar,  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 10:51 PM   #144 
      What did you expect from someone whose profile states.  Uncle Joe   Sep-09-08 10:58 PM   #148 
      Exactly, though I did not know that people actually looked at those.  ZombieHorde   Sep-09-08 11:35 PM   #157 
      As to what little of your post that ISN'T attacking me personally  ZombieHorde   Sep-09-08 11:31 PM   #154 
         Ok. No harm no foul no hard feelings.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 11:36 PM   #159 
            I miss jokes all of the time here on DU and I always forget about the blood soaked sarcasm thing.  ZombieHorde   Sep-09-08 11:49 PM   #164 
               Most of the time? I guess I don't want to be around you when you're hungry and it's not  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:06 AM   #169 
                  Thanks for the awesome link, which is now bookmarked.  ZombieHorde   Sep-10-08 12:28 AM   #174 
   This election is the first one I will vote in. If McCain wins I will never vote again.  L0oniX   Sep-09-08 10:32 PM   #140 
   Don't forget that this country was founded by "terrorists". n/t  greyhound1966   Sep-09-08 11:48 PM   #163 
   I know you may be right. BUT I will not give up. Why? Because this  protect our future   Sep-09-08 10:35 PM   #141 
   Are we being manipulated to begin culling the political shepherds?  NoFederales   Sep-09-08 10:38 PM   #142 
   Not sure what you mean there. Please elaborate.  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 10:57 PM   #147 
      Thinning the herd is exactly what I meant. Look at the desensitivity  NoFederales   Sep-10-08 09:13 AM   #235 
   I would agree with everything you said in regards to the current  go west young man   Sep-09-08 10:44 PM   #143 
   Well, we ARE as brainwashed as the Russians during the Soviet Times. Worse maybe, because  tom_paine   Sep-09-08 11:16 PM   #151 
      I understand your point in regards to todays great leader is  go west young man   Sep-10-08 03:12 AM   #196 
         Thanks again for your unique perspective.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 08:24 AM   #223 
            Actually the FDR analogy is a good one.  go west young man   Sep-10-08 10:58 AM   #255 
   Our meager media presence is part of the problem - Hartmann today  TOJ   Sep-09-08 10:52 PM   #145 
   1 Solution  Steelworker In OH   Sep-09-08 11:02 PM   #149 
   Great thread  littlecryinggirl   Sep-09-08 11:12 PM   #150 
   My feelings in words... exactly. I choose to put them to music and image, but  dammitann   Sep-09-08 11:16 PM   #152 
   No doubt in my mind  jmpnfool   Sep-09-08 11:46 PM   #161 
   Best post I've seen on DU  Janeite   Sep-09-08 11:52 PM   #165 
   I understand your pain  nevergiveup   Sep-10-08 12:04 AM   #168 
   Yes! Time to focus on what our candidate has to say. He speaks for hope.  kayell   Sep-10-08 07:20 AM   #212 
   THANK YOU!! tom_paine, for an excellent and thought-provoking post.  bertman   Sep-10-08 12:08 AM   #170 
   THIS is what DU is all about people!  dammitann   Sep-10-08 03:04 AM   #195 
   Been thinking along the same lines for a long time now. The fix is in and the deck has been stacked  IsItJustMe   Sep-10-08 12:11 AM   #171 
   Despair is so easy, isn't it?  Beregond2   Sep-10-08 12:30 AM   #175 
   I suppose it was only a matter of time until this obligatory post showed up.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:55 AM   #178 
   with a heavy heart, I concur. we haven't hit rock bottom yet,  toadzilla   Sep-10-08 12:58 AM   #179 
   This is it. that is why..  lisainmilo   Sep-10-08 01:15 AM   #180 
   Good. I said at the beginning I didn't want to discourage and demoralize people.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 07:21 AM   #213 
      Mike Malloy (radio) last night--spot on-a reflection of this post  katty   Sep-10-08 02:40 PM   #288 
   K&R  dicksteele   Sep-10-08 01:18 AM   #181 
   sadly agree...somewhat along the lines of what marcuse warned about n/t  amborin   Sep-10-08 01:21 AM   #182 
   Get involved with EDA: What you can do to Defend Election '08 links  flamingdem   Sep-10-08 02:28 AM   #187 
   This post is the important one here: How to fix the situation.  kayell   Sep-10-08 05:38 AM   #202 
   No wonder the cons want to outlaw reading and education.  dammitann   Sep-10-08 02:34 AM   #189 
   Very nice piece. You summed it up nicely.  Neshanic   Sep-10-08 02:35 AM   #190 
   You're not a "realist" until the reality sets in;)  autorank   Sep-10-08 02:38 AM   #191 
   I wish I could be that hopeful  nadinbrzezinski   Sep-10-08 02:45 AM   #192 
   I agree on the outcome of the 2006 Congress. My point was technical  autorank   Sep-10-08 12:52 PM   #281 
   I also wish I could be that hopeful. But as we scientists say, "The data doesn't support it."  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 07:51 AM   #217 
      Your post is an important expression of the dialog and process  autorank   Sep-10-08 12:59 PM   #282 
         I wholly agree with you on Obama's "punch-back". Better late tthan never!  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 02:36 PM   #286 
   I am starting to agree, sort of...  bluespeck   Sep-10-08 02:59 AM   #194 
   Welcome to DU. You are in the right place.  dammitann   Sep-10-08 03:38 AM   #197 
   Welcome to DU. The difficultiy you are having, I think, making Bush-generated reality "compute"  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 07:44 AM   #216 
      Thanks for the welcomes...  bluespeck   Sep-11-08 05:59 AM   #301 
   NEW RULE. YOU CANNOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD.  dammitann   Sep-10-08 03:45 AM   #198 
   You don't make the rules. And I donate my time by volunteering. Sorry if I don't meet  kayell   Sep-10-08 05:31 AM   #201 
      Thank you for your efforts on behalf of our nation.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 07:28 AM   #215 
         Your post has had 9839 views. How many lurkers  kayell   Sep-10-08 08:18 AM   #222 
            I am neither responsible for Obama's defeat, nor his victory.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 08:53 AM   #227 
               It's not helping. What can you do to HELP the cause? nt  kayell   Sep-10-08 09:08 AM   #231 
                  I've spent seven plus years helping "the cause" and now I am sitting this one out.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 09:59 AM   #242 
   i agree with tom_paine and several other members here.  DubyasWorld   Sep-10-08 04:28 AM   #199 
   Well, that was depressing as hell. How about telling us how you'd fix it?  kayell   Sep-10-08 05:27 AM   #200 
   I respect your nose Tom...  Hubert Flottz   Sep-10-08 05:51 AM   #203 
   There is a parallel that no one will talk about  judasdisney   Sep-10-08 06:22 AM   #206 
   I really enjoyed your post with a perverse kind of enjoyment  Solly Mack   Sep-10-08 06:48 AM   #209 
   Dear God, Solly, YOU NAILED IT. And with a helluva lot more brevity than I did.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 08:00 AM   #219 
   You nailed it. Inside my house these same conversations are going on  LibraLiz1973   Sep-10-08 09:41 AM   #240 
   Failure To Impeach Has Brought Us This Low -- Yet, Could Still Be Panacea  Senator   Sep-10-08 06:57 AM   #210 
   We have the world's most obtuse electorate or blantant corruption  flblu2   Sep-10-08 07:24 AM   #214 
   Or BOTH. n/t  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 08:12 AM   #221 
      No, not both.  Senator   Sep-10-08 08:40 AM   #225 
         Sometimes I agree with you on that, Senator, and sometimes not.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 09:19 AM   #237 
            Rare Bird  olegramps   Sep-10-08 11:29 AM   #263 
            Well, I just said incorrect and unhelpful  Senator   Sep-10-08 10:07 PM   #297 
   K & R Tom  Dinger   Sep-10-08 07:52 AM   #218 
   The Romanov solution (NT)  The Wizard   Sep-10-08 08:08 AM   #220 
   !  8643   Sep-10-08 09:00 AM   #228 
   Help me with the math, here!  jamesatemple   Sep-10-08 09:01 AM   #229 
   Read this book:  tannybogus   Sep-10-08 09:14 AM   #236 
      Thank you very kindly, tannybogus!  jamesatemple   Sep-10-08 09:33 AM   #239 
   Dietrich Bonhoeffer nt  paparush   Sep-10-08 09:10 AM   #233 
   The USA has gotten and will continue to get the government it deserves.  wurzel   Sep-10-08 10:07 AM   #243 
   Agreed!  murbley40   Sep-10-08 10:18 AM   #244 
   Depressing all right. We are at a turning point and we have to do everything  Nothing Without Hope   Sep-10-08 10:19 AM   #245 
   Hope is an awful thing  ramapo   Sep-10-08 10:21 AM   #246 
   Someone give me the cliff notes. Who is going to steal it this time?  The Backlash Cometh   Sep-10-08 10:25 AM   #247 
   Who needs to steal it if we give up 8 weeks early? nt  kayell   Sep-10-08 10:36 AM   #249 
   Geez. You can't lay off, can you?  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 10:56 AM   #254 
      This is a public discussion board. I'm discussing. I will never tolerate defeatism.  kayell   Sep-10-08 11:26 AM   #262 
         First, your assumption that everything stems from the personal is way WAAAAY off.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:12 PM   #274 
   Ohhh, there's no one simple answer to all of that. I mean, one could say "The Bushies"  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 10:48 AM   #250 
   You have neglected the most important issue  olegramps   Sep-10-08 10:49 AM   #251 
   Very interesting opinion. But could it not be, sir, that it is not the stance itself  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 11:13 AM   #258 
      Thanks for your response  olegramps   Sep-10-08 11:47 AM   #266 
   Unfortunately... I Agree  theFrankFactor   Sep-10-08 10:54 AM   #253 
   Thank you.  Gilligan   Sep-10-08 11:08 AM   #257 
   Eternal vigilance, friend.  redqueen   Sep-10-08 11:38 AM   #265 
   God, I hope so.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:28 PM   #277 
      To be honest...  redqueen   Sep-10-08 02:57 PM   #290 
   "October Suprise"  baconbits5   Sep-10-08 11:49 AM   #267 
   "The Language of Oppression"  Anticon   Sep-10-08 11:52 AM   #268 
   WHAT "was going to happen"? Wouldn't it make sense to put the subject IN the "subject"????  George II   Sep-10-08 11:53 AM   #269 
   we forget who we are fighting....  Locrian   Sep-10-08 11:57 AM   #270 
   Apathy, ignorance, denial.  Gregorian   Sep-10-08 11:58 AM   #271 
   Agreed, but if people work hard..Obama can/will win..but..  antimatter98   Sep-10-08 12:04 PM   #272 
   redouble the effort  alfrankenaynrand   Sep-10-08 12:14 PM   #275 
   You can take that post and read it every night as far as I care, those  EV_Ares   Sep-10-08 12:34 PM   #279 
   Man, I am not going to explain myself again.  tom_paine   Sep-10-08 12:47 PM   #280 
      Hey, its OK you didn't have to explain it to me. I don't freak out about these posts, you know as  EV_Ares   Sep-10-08 04:06 PM   #292 
   Well written.  GreenTea   Sep-10-08 02:16 PM   #284 
   bookmarked  A-Schwarzenegger   Sep-10-08 02:40 PM   #287 
   I left a few weeks ago because I knew this too and...  nomaco-10   Sep-10-08 04:08 PM   #293 
   I wouldn't exactly call it "inverted" totalitarianism. Nothing's more 'total' today than capitalism.  readmoreoften   Sep-10-08 08:50 PM   #295 
   The changes we have wrought.  greyhound1966   Sep-11-08 03:14 AM   #300 
 

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