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FBI's "Smoking Gun" Against Ivins Evaporates [View All]

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:43 AM
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FBI's "Smoking Gun" Against Ivins Evaporates
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Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 09:42 AM by kpete
FBI's "Smoking Gun" Against Ivins Evaporates
The Anthrax Case Sux
By: emptywheel Thursday August 14, 2008 5:44 am

Notice this time they're not going to tell us what time Ivins went back to the lab, perhaps because they want their theory to hold up through the weekend. If it was late at night, it would introduce the same problems of timing, as presumably Ivins was back at the office at 7:30 AM the next morning, as per usual. And there's one more critical detail: Ivins did not enter Suite B3 when he returned to the office that night. As the original search warrant attachment laid out,
http://www.usdoj.gov/amerithrax/07-524-M-01%20attachmen...

The investigation examined Dr. Ivins's laboratory activity immediately before and after the window of opportunity for the mailing of the Post and Brokaw letters to New York which began at 5:00 p.m. Monday, September 17,200 1 and ended at noon on Tuesday, September 18, 2001. Beginning on Friday, September 14, Dr. Ivins worked the following three consecutive evening shifts prior to the mailings with time spent in Suite B3:


Friday, September 14, 8:54 p.m. to 12:22 a.m., 2 hours 15 minutes

Saturday, September 15, 8:05 p.m. to 11:59 p.m., 2 hours 15 minutes

Sunday, September 16, 6:38 p.m. to 9:52 p.m., 2 hours 15 minutes

After September 16, Dr. Ivins did not enter Suite B3 in the evening again until September 25.


As I understand it, the attachment considers anything after 4:45 to be evening work, and we know that Ivins was in an appointment at that point, so his brief return to the office must have been an evening visit. This does not, by itself, doom their new theory. After all, Ivins was caught that December cleaning his office space, not B3, so it's possible he just stored the anthrax outside of B3 after he cultured it, if in fact he did culture it. But that would raise the question of why the anthrax didn't show up in sampling of his office, and how and where it was stored during the day of September 17 when Ivins was not in his office.

.........................

I'm most amused by the way they find evidence, claim it's significant, then discard it entirely once their theory falls apart. Just last week, the fact that Ivins had taken leave for the entire day before the anthrax was mailed was another smoking gun, proof that he had done the deed. But now that we DFHs have proved he couldn't have been mailing the anthrax at that time, then that piece of evidence is discarded entirely. It seems they don't want to entertain the possibility he was doing something else--perhaps meeting with someone, but not driving to Princeton. Similarly, lie detector tests were critical, until they discovered their main culprit passed his.

In other words, they're still making it up as they go along, and they still don't have a solid case that Ivins was the sole culprit.

more at:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/14/shorter-wa...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

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  -FBI's "Smoking Gun" Against Ivins Evaporates kpete  Aug-14-08 08:43 AM   #0 
  - Great post! Don't know why....  wildbilln864   Aug-14-08 08:46 AM   #1 
  - The FBI hounded a man to death. The WRONG man.  Canuckistanian   Aug-14-08 09:14 AM   #2 
  - they do hound people  Sees Clearly   Aug-14-08 11:59 AM   #12 
  - Every department in our government  asjr   Aug-14-08 09:16 AM   #3 
  - I'm surprised they're always caught flat-footed with their stories. However, they  lulu in NC   Aug-14-08 09:33 AM   #4 
  - A very correct, but very sad point  truedelphi   Aug-14-08 01:12 PM   #16 
  - Then there's the question of the copier  Mabus   Aug-14-08 10:14 AM   #5 
  - Good memory and good catch by suffragette  Maestro   Aug-14-08 12:45 PM   #14 
     - At the very least, was it on his way to the mail box  Mabus   Aug-14-08 01:36 PM   #17 
     - It was probably a copy machine near Hatfill's home, lol.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 01:45 PM   #19 
     - You know me  Mabus   Aug-14-08 01:51 PM   #21 
        - Mabus: why wasn't there another attack between 10/06 and 10/26  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 02:00 PM   #22 
           - I can think of several reasons  Mabus   Aug-14-08 05:01 PM   #34 
              - We don't know the whole first /second batch was gone and  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 05:12 PM   #35 
                 - You are correct.  Mabus   Aug-14-08 05:55 PM   #38 
     - If Ivans drove to NJ and copied the letters there  zeemike   Aug-14-08 03:27 PM   #28 
     - The FBI would say he had been vaccinated, which is true.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 03:28 PM   #29 
     - Very carefully  Mabus   Aug-14-08 05:39 PM   #37 
        - This is completely subjective so, bear with me for a sec.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 06:50 PM   #39 
           - And part of his management was therapy  Mabus   Aug-14-08 07:35 PM   #44 
              - Right. And when you have both hands that full  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 07:52 PM   #48 
     - It was publicly solicited  PATRICK   Aug-15-08 08:06 AM   #62 
     - I wouldn't expect  northernlights   Aug-14-08 09:47 PM   #52 
        - Good points. -nt  Maestro   Aug-14-08 09:55 PM   #53 
        - Envelopes were pre-franked. n/t  sfexpat2000   Aug-15-08 05:19 AM   #58 
        - The envelopes were taped  Mabus   Aug-15-08 08:47 AM   #65 
  - I fear this story will die and everybody will just take the FBI's version at face value.  arcadian   Aug-14-08 10:30 AM   #6 
  - There doesn't seem to be an alternative any more.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 02:35 PM   #25 
  - "they're still making it up as they go along"  stubtoe   Aug-14-08 10:45 AM   #7 
  - playing the role of Lee Hamilton, Tom Daschle has seen all he needs to see.  Supersedeas   Aug-14-08 10:49 AM   #8 
  - I KNEW there was something stinky about their case against Ivins  Th1onein   Aug-14-08 11:03 AM   #9 
  - The anthrax mailings were probably another "Wag the Dog" move by BushCo and the admin HAD  BrklynLiberal   Aug-14-08 11:09 AM   #10 
  - The FBI does rime investigation like Creationists do biological research--  Jackpine Radical   Aug-14-08 11:31 AM   #11 
  - Hair Samples in Anthrax Case Don't Match  robertpaulsen   Aug-14-08 12:00 PM   #13 
  - Almost seven years, and they're still making it up as they go along.  sofa king   Aug-14-08 01:00 PM   #15 
  - Dr. Ivins said he was in the lab late because things were not good at home.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 01:44 PM   #18 
  - Unfortunately they didn't completely screw up  magellan   Aug-14-08 01:47 PM   #20 
  - I'm curious about the fascination at DU with proving Ivins's innocence.  Buzz Clik   Aug-14-08 02:19 PM   #23 
  - It's not that he couldn't have done it. It's that they've "closed the case"  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 02:22 PM   #24 
  - It is the fact that, as with Hatfill, the claims about Ivins don't add up -  NCevilDUer   Aug-14-08 02:54 PM   #26 
  - Even with a deceased defendent, they can't make a case.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 02:57 PM   #27 
  - While it's not totally impossible to prove a negative..  Fumesucker   Aug-14-08 03:35 PM   #32 
  - Anything is possible and this type of thing could happen to any of us  Mabus   Aug-14-08 07:03 PM   #41 
  - It certainly could!  pipi_k   Aug-15-08 08:38 AM   #64 
     - If they wanted to, they could go after almost any of us  Mabus   Aug-15-08 09:15 AM   #66 
  - All I have seen is DUers questioning the 'lone gunman' theory.  Swamp Rat   Aug-14-08 07:07 PM   #42 
  - Really? I guess I'm unfortunate enough to have missed every one of those posts.  Buzz Clik   Aug-14-08 07:14 PM   #43 
  - I can't find any scientist/expert not connected to FBI that believes  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 07:46 PM   #46 
  - Ken Alibek, who is perhaps the top weaponized anthrax expert...  AntiFascist   Aug-14-08 10:21 PM   #55 
  - Ivans as the scapegoat does not preclude the involvement of additional assassins,  Swamp Rat   Aug-14-08 08:28 PM   #51 
     - Yeah, someone needs to remind the FBI the the presumption of innocence  sfexpat2000   Aug-15-08 04:04 AM   #57 
     - The FBI's role is not to presume innocence.  Buzz Clik   Aug-15-08 07:17 AM   #60 
        - Are those mutually exclusive? FBI doesn't operate in a vacuum  sfexpat2000   Aug-15-08 02:02 PM   #69 
     - Your post has to be the most self-contradictory I've seen at DU.  Buzz Clik   Aug-15-08 07:15 AM   #59 
        - No 'contradictions' were presented - you just did not comprehend for some reason.  Swamp Rat   Aug-15-08 01:58 PM   #67 
           - Your grammatical analytical skills, unfortunately, are not your weakest point.  Buzz Clik   Aug-15-08 02:11 PM   #72 
  - There is a range  Mabus   Aug-14-08 07:55 PM   #49 
  - it's not that he couldn't have done it...  northernlights   Aug-14-08 10:05 PM   #54 
     - As much as I agree with you, keep this in mind:  Buzz Clik   Aug-15-08 07:24 AM   #61 
        - It doesn't matter if the whole forum is done in Post-Modern Tinfoil.  sfexpat2000   Aug-15-08 02:08 PM   #71 
  - Ivins - Sole Culprit Not Possible  Ennealogic   Aug-14-08 03:33 PM   #30 
  - Welcome to DU, Ennealogic.  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 03:35 PM   #31 
  - ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##  DU GrovelBot   Aug-14-08 03:35 PM   #33 
  - and no body to try in court, how convenient--friggin bunglers  natrat   Aug-14-08 05:17 PM   #36 
  - Follow-up on seizure of library computers  suffragette   Aug-14-08 06:58 PM   #40 
  - They've spread more innuendo. Is that the purpose?  sfexpat2000   Aug-14-08 07:45 PM   #45 
  - Spreading more innuendo is always a top purpose for them.  suffragette   Aug-14-08 08:07 PM   #50 
  - According to the document  Mabus   Aug-14-08 07:49 PM   #47 
  - Ivins attorney should go public at some point--Mukasey is trying this thing in the Media  Supersedeas   Aug-15-08 02:06 PM   #70 
  - kr  Progs Rock   Aug-15-08 03:51 AM   #56 
  - NPR yesterday...  WattleBreakfast   Aug-15-08 08:09 AM   #63 
  - And it's about to get worse: FBI to get freer rein  sfexpat2000   Aug-15-08 02:00 PM   #68 
     - And just in time for the elections  Mabus   Aug-15-08 02:56 PM   #73 
  - They fucking Guy Montag'ed this guy  romulusnr   Aug-15-08 06:45 PM   #74 
 

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