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Reply #: Yikes. I think I had a slightly different experience. The military is like so many other [View All]

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 01:19 PM
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Yikes. I think I had a slightly different experience. The military is like so many other
large, bureaucratic, unwieldy organizations. Most, whether military or civilian, embrace male cultural mores. A very few, for instance in some health care venues or perhaps IT, have a more feminist focused culture. One factor of a defined culture resides in the sheer number of men vs. women in the institution and in influential positions.

The military takes the "warrior" aspect of male culture and leverages it in both its positive and negative facets. My favorite part of male culture is the fostering of esprit de corps, an emotionally elevating experience at which men excel.

There are many very decent people in the military. And, one cannot ignore the fact that the troops are composed of young men and women, who are in their physical prime. Add the intensity of emotion that everyone is experiencing and you have plenty of men and women consensually having sex, as well the unsavory and ugly bartering you describe.

Sexuality is a strong drive, for both genders and particularly overwhelming in this combination of situations. And, the men greatly outnumber the women. So, any woman going into that situation should be cognizant of who the good guys are and try to focus on the doing the best in the situation at hand. Report everything, even it seems to disappear down a hole.

The military is a documentation driven institution and filing formal reports will get attention. Ask for copies of the report,and keep your own separate documentation, even if it's hand written notes. A small notebook and a pen at all times, stuck in the pocket of your BDU's.

I do wonder if the very young, at times naive, women who are joining right now are truly understanding the implication of becoming a female soldier or Marine. An enlisted woman in the military must always be observant and willing to be outspoken, when the situation calls for it.

I worry that fear may make women in the combat theater today succumb to the pressure you describe. Any scummy guy who takes advantage of a genuinely fearful woman is, well, scummy. They need the light shining on their cowardly asses. Again, the good guys don't want this crap happening, either.

For some reason, your phrase "a woman who refuses to be promiscuous" caught my attention. I think that word has very interesting implications, since it suggests a standard to define "too many" sexual partners. Is the standard 2 or 200? :shrug: MKJ
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  -The private war of women soldiers donsu  Mar-09-07 12:08 PM   #0 
  - This is Beyond Sad  bigluckyfeet   Mar-09-07 12:23 PM   #1 
  - It's lethal. Women had died on duty in Iraq because they stopped  sfexpat2000   Mar-09-07 03:03 PM   #24 
  - This is outrageous.  kerstin   Mar-09-07 12:25 PM   #2 
  - K & R  mongo   Mar-09-07 12:54 PM   #3 
  - Kick  cwydro   Mar-09-07 01:48 PM   #4 
  - I made a video about Women Freedom Fighters  lovuian   Mar-09-07 01:59 PM   #5 
  - Amazing not more comments...  cwydro   Mar-09-07 01:59 PM   #6 
  - Well yuo know pizza  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-09-07 02:03 PM   #7 
     - Perhaps you're right...  cwydro   Mar-09-07 02:05 PM   #10 
        - The names that people call Coulter are connected  sleebarker   Mar-09-07 06:45 PM   #68 
           - Yes, indeed. Thank you for saying it.  Morgana LaFey   Mar-09-07 07:14 PM   #71 
              - Ann Coulter   Mar-10-07 11:37 AM   #104 
                 - Aw. Our little has had a meltdown.  Kerrytravelers   Mar-10-07 12:25 PM   #105 
  - Hmm time to send this to my congress critters  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-09-07 02:03 PM   #8 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-09-07 02:04 PM   #9 
  - Thank you for posting that. That is horrific.  Midlodemocrat   Mar-09-07 02:12 PM   #11 
  - 'bitch, ho, or dyke;' that sounds like the typical macho right wing attitude to any woman who  HardRocker05   Mar-09-07 02:17 PM   #12 
  - I thought the same thing.  knitter4democracy   Mar-09-07 03:25 PM   #36 
  - yeah, but thats okay  blondie58   Mar-10-07 06:10 AM   #89 
     - Amen to that.  knitter4democracy   Mar-10-07 08:23 AM   #95 
  - It was that way when I was in the Army  HeeBGBz   Mar-09-07 06:34 PM   #65 
     - I remember it well. I had to stay hyervigilant about any "private" conversation even  BleedingHeartPatriot   Mar-10-07 11:04 AM   #98 
  - K & R  wicket   Mar-09-07 02:30 PM   #13 
  - Women soldiers having PTSD at much higher rates than men. My guess is this is why.  bobbolink   Mar-09-07 02:33 PM   #14 
  - and what's dismaying, bobbolink  Skittles   Mar-10-07 07:23 AM   #90 
  - you are right - men worry about being killed, injured/maimed but  donsu   Mar-10-07 11:08 AM   #99 
  - Amy Goodman did a well done report on this topic this week.  sfexpat2000   Mar-09-07 02:34 PM   #15 
  - thanks for that link.  cwydro   Mar-09-07 03:34 PM   #39 
  - I figure that if men who rape and abuse are in the minority, there ought to be  Ron_Green   Mar-09-07 02:42 PM   #16 
  - I never thought of that.  sfexpat2000   Mar-09-07 03:01 PM   #23 
  - You would think that would work  alarimer   Mar-09-07 03:55 PM   #45 
     - This makes me think a conscripted military would be more reasonable.  Ron_Green   Mar-09-07 04:03 PM   #48 
        - I agree that some other countries are certainly worse  alarimer   Mar-09-07 04:10 PM   #50 
  - Tailhook redux.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 02:47 PM   #17 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-09-07 02:48 PM   #19 
  - Coerced sex is far more common than actual rape.  Xithras   Mar-09-07 02:59 PM   #22 
  - mmm  Marnieworld   Mar-09-07 03:27 PM   #38 
     - Indeed. I sure don't see any distinction either.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 04:03 PM   #47 
     - It's not usually that direct  Xithras   Mar-09-07 04:21 PM   #51 
        - Yikes. I think I had a slightly different experience. The military is like so many other  BleedingHeartPatriot   Mar-10-07 01:19 PM   # 
  - Bullshit.  Ripley   Mar-09-07 03:07 PM   #27 
  - If it goes on in only ONE unit, it's appalling and merits prosecutions.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 03:18 PM   #33 
     - Again.  Ripley   Mar-09-07 03:25 PM   #37 
     - "Why do you feel it necessary to mischaracterize my position?"  candidate   Mar-09-07 04:44 PM   #54 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-09-07 04:55 PM   #56 
     - because you look at the situation from a male point of view  donsu   Mar-10-07 11:18 AM   #101 
  - Tell me  Ripley   Mar-09-07 03:22 PM   #35 
  - So, if it's not common, it's not a problem, huh?  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 03:49 PM   #42 
  - And here we go again..  Ripley   Mar-09-07 04:32 PM   #52 
     - "And here we go again." ... you seem to be channeling Ronald Reagan  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 05:28 PM   #59 
        - So, you use tricks like "Ronald Reagan"  Ripley   Mar-09-07 05:46 PM   #61 
           - When the foo shits, wear it.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 08:01 PM   #82 
  - What statistics?  Donald Ian Rankin   Mar-09-07 06:24 PM   #63 
  - Did you see this paragraph in the Salon article?  Gormy Cuss   Mar-09-07 05:10 PM   #58 
     - "who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder"  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 05:32 PM   #60 
        - Yes, that is a limitation to the second cited stat. The first , 30% of female vets reporting rape,  Gormy Cuss   Mar-09-07 06:23 PM   #62 
        - AFAIK, that's not materially different from the statistics on sexual assault for the whole country.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 06:47 PM   #69 
           - Given the authoritarian nature of the military, I would expect lower incidence of assault  Gormy Cuss   Mar-09-07 07:33 PM   #75 
              - It cuts both ways, I think.  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 07:48 PM   #79 
        - C'mon, TN -- your "personal experience in the military"  Morgana LaFey   Mar-09-07 07:23 PM   #73 
           - Obviously the absence of ANY experience in the military ...  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 07:38 PM   #76 
              - I think you're quite mistaken that rape in the military equals  Morgana LaFey   Mar-09-07 07:44 PM   #77 
              - and being an Amry wife for umpty-ump years doesn't count, I take it  Morgana LaFey   Mar-09-07 07:46 PM   #78 
                 - Project and dissociate much?  TahitiNut   Mar-09-07 07:53 PM   #81 
                    - Excellent avoidance tactic  Morgana LaFey   Mar-09-07 08:03 PM   #83 
  - Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos  Xithras   Mar-09-07 02:47 PM   #18 
  - And this is not helped by a command structure  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-09-07 02:50 PM   #20 
     - Remember Tailhook?  cwydro   Mar-09-07 02:52 PM   #21 
        - Bingo  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-09-07 03:06 PM   #26 
        - Tailhook had photos and video.  Xithras   Mar-09-07 03:09 PM   #28 
           - You are right.  cwydro   Mar-09-07 03:13 PM   #30 
  - Man, like soldiers don't have enough shit to deal with  walldude   Mar-09-07 03:05 PM   #25 
  - I call bull crap  dmost   Mar-09-07 06:33 PM   #64 
     - I was in the military too and it happens  HeeBGBz   Mar-09-07 06:40 PM   #67 
     - Mi semi-FReeper BIL was a Chief Warrant in the Army for 12+ years  LostinVA   Mar-10-07 07:49 AM   #92 
  - I never served with women....  Bigmack   Mar-09-07 03:11 PM   #29 
  - So is this behavior common or not?  Ron_Green   Mar-09-07 03:16 PM   #31 
  - I couldn't finish this. It's too sickening and sad.  Marnieworld   Mar-09-07 03:17 PM   #32 
  - Yeah,  cwydro   Mar-09-07 03:19 PM   #34 
  - Salon letters missing?  gaspee   Mar-09-07 03:44 PM   #40 
  - Your cynicism is valid  lukasahero   Mar-09-07 03:49 PM   #41 
  - Oh wow,  cwydro   Mar-09-07 03:52 PM   #43 
     - Yep  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-09-07 03:53 PM   #44 
        - yes I know,  cwydro   Mar-09-07 03:59 PM   #46 
  - Some of the early ones I read were disgusting  alarimer   Mar-09-07 04:03 PM   #49 
     - What's scary is that the women don't seem to feel safe around ANY males.  gatorboy   Mar-09-07 04:39 PM   #53 
     - There is peer pressure on the men to be macho  lwfern   Mar-09-07 05:00 PM   #57 
     - I would think there would be  alarimer   Mar-09-07 07:32 PM   #74 
     - I know...  cwydro   Mar-09-07 04:47 PM   #55 
        - Here's the worst part - every soldier is now tainted by the actions  hedgehog   Mar-09-07 06:35 PM   #66 
           - "Assigning escorts "  lukasahero   Mar-09-07 08:16 PM   #85 
  - Do women in the military have boyfriends they can  jcrew2001   Mar-09-07 06:58 PM   #70 
  - Women soldiers dying of dehydration  lostnfound   Mar-10-07 07:42 AM   #91 
     - i meant boyfriends or male allies that she can  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 04:37 PM   #113 
  - doesn't surprise me...I had my share of it in the Navy  L A Woman   Mar-09-07 07:15 PM   #72 
  - "...still being treated as inferior soldiers and sex toys by many of their male colleagues."  BlueIris   Mar-09-07 07:50 PM   #80 
  - "and men have the nerve to tell us they love us"  Bonobo   Mar-09-07 08:07 PM   #84 
  - Do I not? And may I not say I do?  Mister Ed   Mar-10-07 07:54 AM   #93 
  - This may be the sickest part of an  motocicleta   Mar-09-07 10:37 PM   #86 
  - War is Hell  NEOBuckeye   Mar-10-07 12:13 AM   #87 
     - you're right  maxanne   Mar-10-07 09:57 AM   #97 
  - Another price to pay for a bushitler.  lonestarnot   Mar-10-07 05:46 AM   #88 
  - Haliburton at work again. Why was water not readily assessible  MasonJar   Mar-10-07 08:00 AM   #94 
  - My husband took it upon himself to protect his female soldiers  WakeMeUp   Mar-10-07 09:32 AM   #96 
  - Exactly, war is about having the survival mentality  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 11:12 AM   #100 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-10-07 12:41 PM   #106 
  - boredom and not having any women around  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 01:29 PM   #109 
  - I think bored soldiers isolated from their families  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 04:45 PM   #114 
  - I'm a woman who "walks home by herself at night" often. In the middle of a tagged downtown.  BleedingHeartPatriot   Mar-10-07 07:08 PM   #118 
     - I know many women or girls who are  jcrew2001   Mar-11-07 09:19 PM   #121 
  - Post #101  impeachdubya   Mar-10-07 05:16 PM   #117 
     - Hear, hear!  GaYellowDawg   Mar-10-07 07:50 PM   #119 
  - Yes, the women could use a bucket or bedpan ...  JustABozoOnThisBus   Mar-10-07 01:18 PM   #107 
  - in war its about survival whether its  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 01:32 PM   #110 
     - This just doesn't happen in war or some far off land.  gatorboy   Mar-10-07 01:36 PM   #111 
     - It happens anywhere and everywhere  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 04:52 PM   #116 
     - Can you trust the assigned patrolmen?  JustABozoOnThisBus   Mar-10-07 02:43 PM   #112 
        - You have to trust someone and there needs to  jcrew2001   Mar-10-07 04:49 PM   #115 
  - Some of them took to using empty water bottles at night. n/t  WakeMeUp   Mar-11-07 12:10 PM   #120 
  - you mean the religiously insane bushgang gives them birth control  donsu   Mar-10-07 11:30 AM   #103 
  - bump  stonebone   Mar-10-07 11:24 AM   #102 
  - It isn't "sad," it isn't "a shame," and it can't be glibly chalked up to  kerstin   Mar-10-07 01:19 PM   #108 
  - And that's the main reason I am glad I never joined the military.  Jamastiene   Mar-11-07 09:50 PM   #122 

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