izquierdista
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Sun Aug-10-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
| 36. Fighting fascism must be continuous |
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Poles and Lithuanians are NOT anti-Semitic by some accident of birth. Every human culture values itself and cautions about getting too close to the other. The other culture might be dangerous or evil or swarthy or dirty or greedy or misogynistic or violent or any of hundreds of other epithets that have been hurled back and forth. What Kazimierz and Schindler realized is that people are just people, and should be given the chance to live in peace, whatever their culture.
What Nazis do is to take advantage of cultural suspicions and fan the flames of hatred for their own purposes. Nazis only picked on the Jews because they were a significant minority. They couldn't pick on Japanese; there weren't enough living in Europe of the early 20th century. They couldn't pick on Lutherans because they were too large a minority, in fact a majority in some places. Jews were a minority everyone came in contact with, they dressed different, they worshiped different, they celebrated different holidays, they called themselves "God's chosen people". What a convenient target for a lazy demagogue to vilify!
The formation of ghettos is not as easy as you seem to think. Sometimes, it was because Jews wanted to live in close proximity to their own, to facilitate social interaction. Harlem did not become a ghetto by forced migrations; it was a cultural renaissance that led African Americans to want to live there in the 1920s. But by the 1960s, it had become an economically depressed area with a lack of opportunity for the residents. Lodz was barely a spot on the map in the 1820's; in the 1920's it was one of the largest cities in Poland because of the textile industry that grew up there, an industry in which Jews were very well integrated, not shunned. When the Nazis rolled in, the first thing they did was to put walls around the Jewish neighborhood and turn it into a ghetto. And the more people they packed in and the less food they supplied, the worse the living conditions became, proving what the Nazis said all along that Jews were dirty and sub-human. If you took any exclusive gated community anywhere and applied Nazi methods, you could also turn it along with its residents into a ghetto and call the people living there sub-human. Just look at what the Gaza Strip has become today.
Poles have suffered along with the Jews that used to make up a large fraction of the population of the country. After the partitions, the Germans, Austrians, and Russians used the cultural differences between Catholics and Jews to keep both types of Poles subservient to their ambitions of Empire. And with enough propaganda, yes, they did turn on each other to the detriment of both.
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| -I just saw Schindlers List yesterday ,for the first time, and you know what boggles the mind ? |
UndertheOcean |
Aug-10-08 10:24 AM |
#0 |
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Well, look how complicit our bureaucracy is.. Ever have a question or ask why? |
glowing |
Aug-10-08 10:28 AM |
#1 |
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You are exactly right. Bureaucracy is the little evil that allows the rest. |
cliffordu |
Aug-10-08 11:21 AM |
#27 |
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We have lived through similar times. Following the events of |
ikojo |
Aug-10-08 10:29 AM |
#2 |
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Are you serious? |
KillgoreTrout |
Aug-10-08 10:35 AM |
#6 |
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That's what ikijo said |
tavalon |
Aug-10-08 11:55 AM |
#34 |
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I don't think you can compare the two |
HEyHEY |
Aug-10-08 03:02 PM |
#53 |
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A movie everyone should be required to see. |
KillgoreTrout |
Aug-10-08 10:31 AM |
#3 |
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That and "V for Vendetta". Study your hstory books, people. |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-10-08 10:39 AM |
#10 |
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I'd rather people read V For Vendetta |
LanternWaste |
Aug-10-08 02:57 PM |
#52 |
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Unfortunately, the public doesn't like buying books these days? I wonder why? |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-11-08 01:56 AM |
#67 |
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The public I know purchases books. |
LanternWaste |
Aug-11-08 08:25 AM |
#70 |
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Perhaps I was mistaken then. |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-11-08 10:51 AM |
#74 |
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Hitler, the original disaster capitalist? |
alfredo |
Aug-10-08 10:56 AM |
#18 |
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KillgoreTrout |
Diclotican |
Aug-11-08 01:35 AM |
#66 |
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You'd be surprised what people are willing to tolerate |
oktoberain |
Aug-10-08 10:31 AM |
#4 |
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The German people were fearful of the police, snitches and the "let the other guy fix it" issues. |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-10-08 10:45 AM |
#12 |
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Interesting. |
Hav |
Aug-10-08 10:46 AM |
#15 |
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I was thinking along similar lines, and this book is what came to mind: |
pnorman |
Aug-10-08 11:10 AM |
#22 |
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I wonder how the whistleblower personality would play out in that scenario? |
tavalon |
Aug-10-08 11:59 AM |
#35 |
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And they were afraid for their families. I agree that we do not know |
jwirr |
Aug-10-08 11:31 AM |
#29 |
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Bystander effect (link) |
sfexpat2000 |
Aug-10-08 11:32 AM |
#30 |
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That was set in Poland, where there was a strong culture of hatred toward the Jews. |
sharesunited |
Aug-10-08 10:33 AM |
#5 |
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WRONG!! |
izquierdista |
Aug-10-08 11:10 AM |
#21 |
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Props to Casimir III. Obviously the Schindler of his day. |
sharesunited |
Aug-10-08 11:21 AM |
#26 |
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Fighting fascism must be continuous |
izquierdista |
Aug-10-08 12:06 PM |
#36 |
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Great post. Thanks for the education! |
sharesunited |
Aug-10-08 10:26 PM |
#60 |
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The anti-semitism, especially in Poland, but also throughout Europe . . . |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 11:14 AM |
#23 |
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Definitely. Good Catholics know who killed Christ. |
sharesunited |
Aug-10-08 11:22 AM |
#28 |
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I've never understood |
bdf |
Aug-10-08 12:22 PM |
#40 |
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There was a Gospel of Judus recently rediscovered. |
Kber |
Aug-10-08 02:56 PM |
#51 |
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With or without that gospel |
bdf |
Aug-10-08 03:03 PM |
#54 |
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Right ... the redeemed version of Judas --- |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 05:53 PM |
#57 |
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Well. . . . you might consider that you're actually dealing with myth . . . |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 05:50 PM |
#55 |
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yeah, but good christians know that jesus WAS a jew. |
unblock |
Aug-10-08 01:01 PM |
#42 |
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...yeah, isn't it ironic that they could make Catholics forget about that little detail -- !!! |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 05:52 PM |
#56 |
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Sorry.Too late, its already here in its birth. Your grandchildren will be fascists in full form. |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-10-08 10:35 AM |
#7 |
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It's the old slippery slope of torture, imprisonment without rights, kidnapping by govt. |
TexasObserver |
Aug-10-08 10:35 AM |
#8 |
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The police in this nation feel superior to John Public and only the blind cant see that as truth. |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-10-08 10:49 AM |
#16 |
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They're being taught to disregard citizen's Constitutional rights . . |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 11:15 AM |
#24 |
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In truth I don't think the younger generation even KNOWS what their rights are, including the police |
Truth4Justice |
Aug-11-08 01:17 AM |
#65 |
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What do you mean "if"? |
lynyrd_skynyrd |
Aug-10-08 10:38 AM |
#9 |
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What lynyrd_skynyrd Said |
Tace |
Aug-10-08 01:47 PM |
#43 |
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The very fact that DU exists |
demwing |
Aug-11-08 02:21 AM |
#69 |
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This may help a little. |
tannybogus |
Aug-10-08 10:41 AM |
#11 |
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people are sheep, waiting to be led. |
KG |
Aug-10-08 10:45 AM |
#13 |
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The Holocaust brings out |
supernova |
Aug-10-08 10:46 AM |
#14 |
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The intimidation of citizens begins early on and finally they can't react --- |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 10:53 AM |
#17 |
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What are we doing to free Gitmo prisoners? |
Marie26 |
Aug-10-08 10:57 AM |
#19 |
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We read the stories . . . we're shocked. . . we move on --- |
defendandprotect |
Aug-10-08 11:19 AM |
#25 |
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yeah...move them to Saudi Arabia. |
tjwash |
Aug-10-08 12:12 PM |
#38 |
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In response to the Reichstag fire came the Enabling Act, your Patriot Act |
arthritisR_US |
Aug-10-08 10:59 AM |
#20 |
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And let's not forget |
Turbineguy |
Aug-10-08 11:37 AM |
#31 |
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That Speilberg won an Oscar for a film that ripped off other directors work |
JamesA1102 |
Aug-10-08 11:42 AM |
#32 |
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The film was about a specific person, Schindler, and his actions. |
Oregonian |
Aug-10-08 12:13 PM |
#39 |
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He could have mentioned them in the dedication at the end of the film |
JamesA1102 |
Aug-10-08 10:34 PM |
#64 |
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Your slip is showing... |
Balbus |
Aug-10-08 12:47 PM |
#41 |
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That has always bothered me, too. |
emilyg |
Aug-10-08 02:24 PM |
#48 |
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I've been thinking of this comparison since late 2001, |
tavalon |
Aug-10-08 11:54 AM |
#33 |
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Humans are conformist |
Prophet 451 |
Aug-10-08 12:10 PM |
#37 |
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It was fear |
JustAnotherGen |
Aug-10-08 02:12 PM |
#44 |
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I am not a battered housewife. |
Gregorian |
Aug-10-08 02:13 PM |
#45 |
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"They Thought They Were Free." |
ocelot |
Aug-10-08 02:20 PM |
#46 |
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ocelot |
JustAnotherGen |
Aug-10-08 02:23 PM |
#47 |
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A Little Time Perspective... |
KharmaTrain |
Aug-10-08 02:39 PM |
#49 |
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Just one question: Did you make out while watching Schindler's List? I heard that's a no-no...nt |
suston96 |
Aug-10-08 02:39 PM |
#50 |
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So, when Blackwater knocks on your door what are your plans? |
lame54 |
Aug-10-08 05:55 PM |
#58 |
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I am willing to bet that you would not |
nadinbrzezinski |
Aug-10-08 05:57 PM |
#59 |
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A Holocaust movie with a trademarked Spielberg happy ending is what I found... |
mitchum |
Aug-10-08 10:30 PM |
#61 |
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Our entire nation has slipped from sovereignty to some other horrid thing |
soothsayer |
Aug-10-08 10:34 PM |
#62 |
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And that's why poor Anne Frank was wrong... |
mitchum |
Aug-10-08 10:34 PM |
#63 |
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UndertheOcean |
Diclotican |
Aug-11-08 01:59 AM |
#68 |
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I thought so too, but when you look into the era you realize that it was almost inevitable... |
truebrit71 |
Aug-11-08 08:41 AM |
#71 |
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Read "They Thought They Were Free" by Milton Mayer |
Ezlivin |
Aug-11-08 08:47 AM |
#72 |
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American culture produced the masterpiece that moved you to post |
Marnieworld |
Aug-11-08 09:29 AM |
#73 |