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Reply #98: No, actually, YOU are wrong [View All]

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. No, actually, YOU are wrong
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:34 AM by kgfnally
and, typically, you do not see why.

Let's examine what you said that initially touched me off:

"I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men".

You have also stated that as a christian you cannot believe otherwise. What you fail you 'get' is that, by definition, you are telling me that me having sex, period, is wrong. As much as you would like to do so- probably because, if you could, you wouldn't look like a hypocrite- you cannot remove from your own original statement that fact.

Given I cannot get married because YOUR religious beliefs are being enforced, I must have sex outside of marriage. The one follows the other. Again, I cannot stress strongly enough that this is directly because your beliefs, whomever may hold them (you or someone else), are being enforced upon me right this moment, where I sit. All of this, added to what you originally said ("I believe that sex before marriage is wrong...for women and men"), makes it a very personal and very direct attack, not upon any belief I may hold, but upon me, personally, and a whole lot of other people here.

You can't say what you're saying and still claim to support us. Campaign in your church to allow gay marriage on the federal level and I might believe you.

ed.: punctuation

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  -Father kills daughter; doubted virginity helderheid  Jan-25-07 09:28 AM   #0 
  - I'm guessing they missed the Father/Daughter Virginity Ball?  trumad   Jan-25-07 09:30 AM   #1 
  - Well, He Couldn't Be Seen In Public With Her!  ProfessorGAC   Jan-25-07 09:49 AM   #24 
  - I just knew that was a story based in the US.  xultar   Jan-25-07 09:30 AM   #2 
  - madness.  mmonk   Jan-25-07 09:31 AM   #3 
  - A non-virginal daughter is not "worth as much" on the marriage "market".  SoCalDem   Jan-25-07 09:35 AM   #12 
     - How much is a dead one worth?  Deep13   Jan-25-07 10:19 AM   #56 
        - Oddly, it BOOSTS the family's standing  SoCalDem   Jan-25-07 10:54 AM   #88 
  - What a lunatic. nt  iconoclastic cat   Jan-25-07 09:31 AM   #4 
  - Ugh  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 09:31 AM   #5 
  - Probably Never!  ProfessorGAC   Jan-25-07 09:50 AM   #25 
  - I know, I know  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 10:00 AM   #32 
  - I am an eternal optimist  etherealtruth   Jan-25-07 11:44 AM   #103 
  - And some people wondered why that "pledge your virginity" ceremony creeped some of us out  Der Blaue Engel   Jan-25-07 09:32 AM   #6 
  - when one of the fathers from that ceremony kills his daughter  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 09:34 AM   #9 
     - It's not equated, but there is a parallel  treestar   Jan-25-07 09:35 AM   #14 
     - I agree with you here.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 09:36 AM   #15 
     - semantics  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 09:38 AM   #20 
     - It's not loving and protecting her -  NCevilDUer   Jan-25-07 09:44 AM   #22 
     - have you ever been to one?  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 09:58 AM   #31 
        - No, I haven't, but I do have two daughters.  NCevilDUer   Jan-25-07 10:16 AM   #50 
        - But that is not a liberal doctrine n/a  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 11:46 AM   #106 
     - No it's not. It's an unnatural and freakish obsession with their  Bunny   Jan-25-07 09:58 AM   #30 
     - i agree with the statement on four year olds  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:02 AM   #33 
        - So is losing one's virginity evil?  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:04 AM   #34 
        - apparently so  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:06 AM   #35 
        - so, you have a problem with the religion...  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:08 AM   #38 
           - No, I have a problem with male control-freaks  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:09 AM   #40 
           - so, if i teach my children my beliefs i am controlling them?  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:11 AM   #43 
           - I wasn't speaking about you  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:13 AM   #46 
              - you butted into my subthread with someone else  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:17 AM   #52 
                 - oh so this is YOUR thread?  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:19 AM   #58 
                    - nope...just pointing out that you can't seem to keep straight  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:21 AM   #61 
           - Exactly -- saying this is a slam against religion is a strawman  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 11:48 AM   #107 
           - It is an unfortunate element of some male- dominated cultures.  WinkyDink   Jan-25-07 01:34 PM   #127 
        - Christian teaching holds sex outside of marriage as sin  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:07 AM   #37 
           - Riiiight. So why aren't their purity balls with sons?  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:08 AM   #39 
           - which of these people has killed their child by this?  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:14 AM   #49 
              - I am not saying that honor killings happen in our society. What I am saying is that this obsession  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:18 AM   #54 
                 - i agree with you on the onesided nature  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:29 AM   #64 
                    - I'm sure of that about you - I just hope you can see the parallel with gender.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:30 AM   #65 
                       - I can dig that... n/t  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:31 AM   #66 
                          - Cool.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:32 AM   #69 
                             - is  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:33 AM   #70 
                                - Indeed.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 11:06 PM   #134 
           - Any statistics on how many people actually remain virgins until marriage?  impeachdubya   Jan-25-07 10:33 AM   #71 
           - somewhere in what I think was another thread...  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:43 AM   #80 
              - I would tend to agree. I still find the purity balls creepy, but parents do have the right  impeachdubya   Jan-25-07 10:52 AM   #86 
           - Good for you. But none of the rest of us will be held to your outdated morals.  LeftyMom   Jan-25-07 04:28 PM   #133 
        - Sure, raise your kids however you want. Your definition of protection  Bunny   Jan-25-07 10:07 AM   #36 
        - but do you KNOW what is going on there?  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:10 AM   #41 
           - Nothing is "assumed" about making daughters sign pledges  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:12 AM   #44 
           - absolutely.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:13 AM   #47 
           - Exactly  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 11:49 AM   #108 
           - Their motivation and behavior leaves very little to "assume". It's right out there for  Bunny   Jan-25-07 10:20 AM   #59 
              - i agree...i do tend to assume that people generally have  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:26 AM   #63 
                 - I am not trying to bust your balls for raising your daughters in your  Bunny   Jan-25-07 10:31 AM   #67 
                    - He won't believe you  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:34 AM   # 
                    - nope...just you...  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:35 AM   #74 
                       - God bless  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:37 AM   #76 
                          - so my sarcasm and lack of interest in your comment  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:41 AM   #78 
                             - God bless you  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 10:45 AM   #81 
                                - who is insulting?  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:47 AM   #83 
                    - well, at least you're not busting my balls  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:40 AM   #77 
                    - .  Midlodemocrat   Jan-25-07 01:11 PM   #126 
        - I knew we'd get there eventually...  Tesha   Jan-25-07 10:42 AM   #79 
        - well, I never hid anything so I don't know why we FINALLY get to it  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:46 AM   #82 
        - I would be willing to bet that almost no one who claimed to  alarimer   Jan-25-07 11:29 AM   #97 
        - I CAN'T get married. EVER.  kgfnally   Jan-25-07 10:52 AM   #85 
        - for women and men of the christian faith it IS wrong  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:59 AM   #90 
           - Why am I so angry?  kgfnally   Jan-25-07 11:00 AM   #92 
           - ok...I can see that  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 11:03 AM   #93 
              - Your beliefs are directly responsible for suicides  kgfnally   Jan-25-07 11:11 AM   #94 
                 - you know are wrong  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 11:21 AM   #95 
                    - No, actually, YOU are wrong  kgfnally   Jan-25-07 11:33 AM   #98 
                       - read the questions before what you are bitter about  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 11:42 AM   # 
           - The poster isn't talking about SEX, even though that's what YOU'RE focusing on  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 11:51 AM   #109 
           - well sex and marriage are kind of intertwined for christians of most sects  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 11:56 AM   #112 
              - I'm an ex CCD teacher, and one of my minors was Comparative Religion  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 12:01 PM   #114 
                 - well, I never said you didn't  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 12:05 PM   #117 
           - Oh, bullshit. Christ spoke about adultery and divorce, not pre-marital  Midlodemocrat   Jan-25-07 12:39 PM   #119 
              - don't bother to read anything else I have written here  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 12:54 PM   #121 
                 - Gee, I guess I didn't realize this was your private message board  Midlodemocrat   Jan-25-07 01:10 PM   #125 
                    - you're really tightly focused on the issue at hand, I see  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 01:59 PM   #129 
        - Well, I can't get married. I don't have legal rights.  haruka3_2000   Jan-25-07 11:42 AM   #101 
           - well, I cannot say what is right or wrong for YOU  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 11:44 AM   #104 
           - Don't bother  kgfnally   Jan-25-07 11:45 AM   #105 
     - If you love your daughter  stanwyck   Jan-25-07 11:53 AM   #111 
     - Yes. The whole purity ball thing is just a weakened version  Midlodemocrat   Jan-25-07 09:58 AM   #29 
        - Only in the sense that a job is a weakened form of slavery, or some such.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jan-25-07 10:52 AM   #87 
        - It's a weakened form of patriarchal control  Midlodemocrat   Jan-25-07 12:41 PM   #120 
        - Yup  LostinVA   Jan-25-07 11:53 AM   #110 
     - I disagree  Annces   Jan-25-07 09:36 AM   #16 
     - Agreed.  Mandate My Ass   Jan-25-07 09:38 AM   #19 
     - No, I can equate the two right now, because it is the same freaking mentality  Der Blaue Engel   Jan-25-07 10:11 AM   #42 
     - logical fallacy seems to be ok with go with that n/t  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:19 AM   #57 
        - Denial seems to be okay with go with that n/t  Der Blaue Engel   Jan-25-07 01:55 PM   #128 
     - Like it's not going to happen...  trumad   Jan-25-07 10:35 AM   #73 
        - well, it doesn't generally happen here a lot  ProdigalJunkMail   Jan-25-07 10:49 AM   #84 
  - Let me guess. He killed her because she MIGHT HAVE lost her  no_hypocrisy   Jan-25-07 09:32 AM   #7 
  - Jesus Christ, that is just so fucked up.  two gun sid   Jan-25-07 09:32 AM   #8 
  - Man the penalties for homicide are pretty lenient in Jordan  treestar   Jan-25-07 09:34 AM   # 
  - Very ugly  Annces   Jan-25-07 09:34 AM   #10 
  - She ran away several times for unknown reasons.  NCevilDUer   Jan-25-07 09:46 AM   #23 
  - Anybody wanna spot me a plane ticket to Jordan  realpolitik   Jan-25-07 09:34 AM   #11 
  - Ha!  jellybeancurse   Jan-25-07 09:57 AM   #28 
  - She had run away "for unknown reasons."  blonndee   Jan-25-07 09:35 AM   #13 
  - I'm sure he was abusive. The poor girl probably had good reason to run away. nt  atommom   Jan-25-07 09:38 AM   #18 
  - I'm thinking sexual abuse (non-penetrating). n/t  NoodleyAppendage   Jan-25-07 10:18 AM   #55 
  - oh the horror.  Lurking Dem   Jan-25-07 09:37 AM   #17 
  - God, no kidding.  helderheid   Jan-25-07 10:34 AM   #72 
  - This is why I will always feel it is OK to pass judgment upon other cultures.  Selatius   Jan-25-07 09:43 AM   #21 
  - If something is harmful, cruel or even insane...  Deep13   Jan-25-07 10:16 AM   #51 
  - Right, any country that treated a racial minority the way that women  Lydia Leftcoast   Jan-25-07 11:28 AM   #96 
  - Exactly  etherealtruth   Jan-25-07 12:04 PM   #116 
  - This is inexcusable and uncivilized behavior  fujiyama   Jan-25-07 11:27 PM   #137 
  - That's absolutely barbaric.  Dulcinea   Jan-25-07 09:50 AM   #26 
  - This passage from the article says it all...  Javaman   Jan-25-07 10:12 AM   #45 
  - Wow.  Dorian Gray   Jan-25-07 09:56 AM   #27 
  - "The tests proved that she was a virgin"  Deep13   Jan-25-07 10:14 AM   #48 
  - An intact hymen is generally a pretty good clue -  NCevilDUer   Jan-25-07 10:25 AM   #62 
     - The hymen is an elastic muscle.  Deep13   Jan-25-07 10:31 AM   #68 
        - It is almost always torn or stretched  Lurking Dem   Jan-25-07 11:59 AM   #113 
           - I only know what the forensic nurse testified to.  Deep13   Jan-25-07 12:04 PM   #115 
              - Father-in-law was president of ACOG for quite a long time.  Lurking Dem   Jan-25-07 01:00 PM   #122 
  - The father likely had latent urges to screw his daughter...he's rather kill her than share her.  NoodleyAppendage   Jan-25-07 10:17 AM   #53 
  - She was a virgin 'til her father's bullet penetrated her. nt  sweetheart   Jan-25-07 10:21 AM   #60 
  - men, including fathers have no business sticking their noses in women's  donsu   Jan-25-07 10:37 AM   #75 
  - I think you probably go to far.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jan-25-07 10:56 AM   #89 
  - to a point  donsu   Jan-25-07 11:38 AM   #100 
  - I disagree too...  SayWhatYo   Jan-25-07 11:00 AM   #91 
  - Gee, how radical.  Deep13   Jan-25-07 01:05 PM   #124 
  - Even if they are, like, 12...  theboss   Jan-25-07 02:30 PM   #132 
  - The American version of this story..  turtlensue   Jan-25-07 11:37 AM   #99 
  - Don't fool yourself. Red states have no monopoly on stupid sexist control freaks  Bucky   Jan-25-07 11:44 AM   #102 
  - and nothing will happen with this guy- he will go free  Beaverhausen   Jan-25-07 12:09 PM   #118 
  - Usually against the death penalty  shadowknows69   Jan-25-07 01:02 PM   #123 
  - If he was so worried about "family honor"....  Missy M   Jan-25-07 02:27 PM   #130 
  - In Jordan?  slackmaster   Jan-25-07 02:29 PM   #131 
  - Religious insanity is rampant over there.  MrSlayer   Jan-25-07 11:19 PM   #135 
  - Around the world, how many women kill their sons?  ComeAndTakeIt   Jan-25-07 11:21 PM   #136 

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