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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. We do it for the living
Ever had a loved one die? Ever had someone come up to you and say something nasty about them? Now, from the speaker's viewpoint, that opinion is justified--but not to the person who truly loved the deceased. And at one of the most stressful times in a person's life (death of a loved one), does it make sense to add to that griever's stress?

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  -Why Exactly is it Bad to Speak Ill of the Dead? evilkumquat  Jul-13-08 12:03 PM   #0 
  - Because they will rise from the grave and eat your brains.  MercutioATC   Jul-13-08 12:04 PM   #1 
  - ...  Benhurst   Jul-13-08 12:08 PM   #8 
  - OMG  mexicoxpat   Jul-13-08 01:47 PM   #41 
  - LOL  malaise   Jul-13-08 03:15 PM   #71 
  - They want a meal, not a snack.  tomreedtoon   Jul-13-08 03:47 PM   #85 
  - Very true.  ZombieHorde   Jul-13-08 06:21 PM   #111 
  - It's not a joke -- it's the actual reason  starroute   Jul-14-08 04:29 PM   #193 
  - What's the point? They're dead and can't hear you. Best to do it  babylonsister   Jul-13-08 12:06 PM   #2 
  - People like Tony Snow don't listen to us dead or alive.  tridim   Jul-13-08 12:11 PM   #9 
  - What's the point? Uh, how about not letting the truth die with them?  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:03 PM   #122 
  - Then you go ahead and speak ill of anyone you want; I think it's  babylonsister   Jul-14-08 06:35 AM   #156 
  - Maybe if more people knew they'd be remembered for the damage they did,  Dr_eldritch   Jul-14-08 04:41 AM   #154 
  - "Hell, we do it all the time. Smirk." - Commander AWOL  SpiralHawk   Jul-13-08 12:06 PM   #3 
  - The best thing to remember about dancing on a grave  Warpy   Jul-13-08 12:07 PM   #4 
  - I believe that's what's known as a "grave mistake"  Orrex   Jul-13-08 12:07 PM   #7 
  - It's not really the dead who are honored, but their survivors.  TexasObserver   Jul-13-08 12:07 PM   #5 
  - That's a good observation  Orrex   Jul-13-08 12:26 PM   #21 
     - And you won't be alone either!  Raksha   Jul-14-08 04:23 PM   #191 
  - for the same reason I'm against the death penalty  lwfern   Jul-13-08 12:07 PM   #6 
  - and the main tragedy is...  World Citizen   Jul-13-08 12:15 PM   #13 
  - Well-said.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:04 PM   #123 
  - You've hit the nail on the head  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jul-13-08 12:17 PM   #16 
  - Amen.  A-Schwarzenegger   Jul-13-08 12:29 PM   #25 
  - I am Against the Death Penalty...  evilkumquat   Jul-13-08 01:56 PM   #44 
  - When my youngest sister died it was not a tragedy  malaise   Jul-13-08 03:24 PM   #77 
  - No need to apologize to me.  lwfern   Jul-13-08 04:07 PM   #93 
     - I haven't seen anyone here feeling glee  malaise   Jul-13-08 05:25 PM   #108 
  - The "glee at someone's pain"? Whose pain?  Frank Cannon   Jul-13-08 06:48 PM   #116 
  - It's not about the deceased,  qazplm   Jul-13-08 12:12 PM   #10 
  - Even Hitler had relatives. You want to not bring up the Holocaust to avoid hurting their feelings?  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:07 PM   #124 
  - I have decided that about a week is enough time to remain respectfully silent.  Liberal Veteran   Jul-13-08 12:12 PM   #11 
  - We do it for the living  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jul-13-08 12:15 PM   #12 
  - Is it fair to be one-sided though?  hfojvt   Jul-13-08 02:02 PM   #48 
     - Fanfuckingtastic point. You absolutely NAILED it.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:10 PM   #127 
     - Thank you.  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-13-08 08:10 PM   #144 
  - Define Evil  iamjoy   Jul-13-08 12:16 PM   #14 
  - The dead don't get a free pass, but...  TreasonousBastard   Jul-13-08 12:17 PM   #15 
  - It seems speaking the truth is also confused with speaking ill of the dead.  dadsblacksheep   Jul-13-08 12:18 PM   #17 
  - That is exactly correct  Orrex   Jul-13-08 12:24 PM   #19 
  - Because DU mods will delete your posts  Phred42   Jul-13-08 12:18 PM   #18 
  - And there it is. The OP's question has been answered.  Robeson   Jul-13-08 12:27 PM   #24 
  - And have been!  krispos42   Jul-13-08 04:47 PM   #102 
  - because we the living are supposed to eat any kind of shit apparently  pitohui   Jul-13-08 12:25 PM   #20 
  - I don't know, but I hated that fucker Reagan.  graywarrior   Jul-13-08 12:26 PM   #22 
  - it makes no sense to give the recently dead a free pass  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 12:27 PM   #23 
  - Death does not change what a person was.  nancyr   Jul-13-08 12:40 PM   #26 
  - There are several reasons  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 12:48 PM   #27 
  - Thank you, Jack.  enlightenment   Jul-13-08 01:00 PM   #32 
  - Well said  tsegat01   Jul-13-08 01:07 PM   #34 
  - nothing counts or matters  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 01:59 PM   #45 
  - No, it has to do with a little something called "nuance."  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 02:10 PM   # 
  - I know all about it.  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 06:10 PM   #109 
     - How is "nuance" your "stock in trade?"  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:47 AM   #166 
        - I'm a professional songwriter  leftofthedial   Jul-14-08 09:16 AM   #172 
           - LOL! And that makes nuance your "stock in trade"....how?  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 09:19 AM   #174 
              - In every important way.  leftofthedial   Jul-14-08 09:38 AM   #176 
  - I don't think you understood a word I said  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 03:26 PM   #79 
     - Nicely done  krispos42   Jul-13-08 04:43 PM   #100 
     - Hitler? Okay. Hitler died way too late.  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 06:20 PM   #110 
        - thank you leftofthedial  pitohui   Jul-13-08 06:54 PM   #120 
        - my pleasure.  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 11:30 PM   #146 
        - Great post!  tabasco   Jul-13-08 07:18 PM   #129 
        - Response  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 07:37 PM   #141 
        - what acts did snow or russert or any of these wads do  leftofthedial   Jul-13-08 11:32 PM   #147 
           - "they were bad guys."  Jack Rabbit   Jul-14-08 01:33 AM   #150 
              - I'm "reviewing" reality.  leftofthedial   Jul-14-08 09:33 AM   #175 
                 - I'm going to let this drop after this  Jack Rabbit   Jul-14-08 05:18 PM   #195 
                    - I never said I want to reduce anyone or anything to "pure evil."  leftofthedial   Jul-14-08 05:35 PM   #197 
        - Standing ovation!  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-13-08 08:15 PM   #145 
  - Using Your Argument, No One is Ever Truly "Evil"  evilkumquat   Jul-13-08 02:08 PM   #49 
  - pure black and white still exists in this world from time to time  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 03:36 PM   #80 
     - Would a Better Question Be: Is the World Better or Worse Off?  evilkumquat   Jul-13-08 06:47 PM   #115 
        - That's more llike it  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 07:44 PM   #143 
  - (shrug) Some are less ambiguous than others.  BlooInBloo   Jul-13-08 02:53 PM   #61 
  - True.  Jack Rabbit   Jul-13-08 03:38 PM   #81 
  - Awesome post in this thread  architect359   Jul-14-08 09:13 AM   #171 
  - I think that the wrong wing has lost a lot  hyphenate   Jul-13-08 12:51 PM   #28 
  - In part because one measure of a person's character is how they treat  sfexpat2000   Jul-13-08 12:54 PM   #29 
  - Ugh, I think it is a defense issue.  lonestarnot   Jul-13-08 12:57 PM   #30 
  - Does anyone here actually think that some rethugs widow is reading anything  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-13-08 12:59 PM   #31 
  - Interesting post, considering your online name.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 01:39 PM   #40 
     - I never said that, maybe you should read my post again.  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-13-08 01:51 PM   #42 
        - I read it the first time. Do you really think referring to Snow's bereaved wife  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 01:59 PM   #46 
           - I really don't give  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-13-08 02:44 PM   #54 
           - I was asking what YOU thought.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 02:47 PM   #56 
           - It's a statement of fact - would this alleged Jesus guy frown on stating facts?  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:24 PM   #131 
              - Yeah, and every Freeper who defends Coulter's disgusting comments  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:35 AM   #159 
  - Because it's hurtful  MonkeyFunk   Jul-13-08 01:00 PM   #33 
  - No, I laughed (heartily) at the deaths of hate-filled racists like Helms & Falwell.  U4ikLefty   Jul-13-08 06:39 PM   #113 
     - You put too much faith  MonkeyFunk   Jul-13-08 07:23 PM   #130 
  - Okay. Here's my answer.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 01:09 PM   #35 
  - Feeling Hate Toward the Hateful is Human  evilkumquat   Jul-13-08 07:09 PM   #126 
  - Ho-hum. The usual rationalizations. If I had a dime for every Freeper,  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:56 AM   #167 
     - Careful...  evilkumquat   Jul-14-08 10:16 AM   #181 
        - Can you deny my point?  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 03:49 PM   #186 
           - As Near as I Can Tell...  evilkumquat   Jul-14-08 03:55 PM   #189 
  - As usual, Pam, you nailed it  Avemedea   Jul-14-08 12:32 PM   #185 
  - If St Peter hears us talking about the sins of the dead, he might not let them thru the Pearly Gates  librechik   Jul-13-08 01:18 PM   #36 
  - I think especially after a person first dies it is a basic sense of decency and fair play.  elocs   Jul-13-08 01:34 PM   #37 
  - i (somewhat begrudgingly) agree that the respect for the loved one's trumps...  islandmkl   Jul-13-08 01:38 PM   #38 
  - My grandmother told my aunt that after she dies she will claw her way  alfredo   Jul-13-08 01:39 PM   #39 
  - What if the family/loved ones of the deceased are living off the  madmom   Jul-13-08 01:55 PM   #43 
  - It's still wrong.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 02:01 PM   #47 
     - No I taught my kids to be themselves, but I don't understand what you are saying what is still wrong  madmom   Jul-13-08 03:03 PM   #64 
        - I'm saying that nobody deserves to die in pain.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:05 PM   #65 
           - I didn't say anything about deserving to die in pain, but he does NOT deserve my respect!  madmom   Jul-13-08 03:10 PM   #67 
              - My apologies. I briefly confused you with someone in another discussion.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:22 PM   #74 
  - there are, of course, various shades of 'they'  hfojvt   Jul-13-08 02:10 PM   #50 
  - "This is not meant as a snarky question, or a belligerent post....."  Cleita   Jul-13-08 02:12 PM   #51 
  - It's the revisionist history I can't stand.  Evoman   Jul-13-08 02:40 PM   #52 
  - Do you understand WHY the moderators felt compelled to make an announcement  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 02:48 PM   #57 
  - Knowing how fair the mods are, I suspect it was really bad jokes or making fun of him having cancer.  Evoman   Jul-13-08 03:14 PM   #69 
     - This thread and many others right now are related to that decision by the moderators.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:23 PM   #75 
        - And?  Evoman   Jul-13-08 03:39 PM   #83 
           - I believe I am responding to your point.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:48 PM   #86 
              - Fair enough...now let me ask you something.  Evoman   Jul-13-08 04:14 PM   #95 
                 - I didn't say "he battled cancer courageously, whatever your opinion, etc..."  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 04:32 PM   #98 
                 - I agree with your list and would defend any of those points.  Evoman   Jul-13-08 04:47 PM   #101 
                    - Feeling relief at the death of a public figure responsible for the death of a relative is one thing.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 04:57 PM   #104 
                       - I don't know...I just can't make myself care.  Evoman   Jul-13-08 05:21 PM   #106 
                          - Do you get mad when Freepers do it about liberals?  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 05:23 PM   #107 
                             - False analogy. Freepers celebrate the death of decent people.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:30 PM   #134 
                                - LOL! A Freeper would look at some of the comments here about the deaths  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:34 AM   #158 
                                   - Except we are right. If we didn't think so, we wouldn't be here.  Evoman   Jul-14-08 12:15 PM   #183 
                                      - "Except we are right!" insist the Freepers.  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 03:51 PM   #187 
                                         - Your simplistic moral relatavism argument....yeah I get it.  Evoman   Jul-14-08 05:14 PM   #194 
                 - Damn, Evoman, I had no idea.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:27 PM   #133 
                    - You should talk to my grandparents.  Evoman   Jul-14-08 12:18 PM   #184 
  - Good post, Evoman. I agree completely. nt  Oregonian   Jul-13-08 06:49 PM   #117 
  - Cheers.......Well said.  Twist_U_Up   Jul-14-08 04:25 PM   #192 
  - You have their whole life to bitch at them, in death you can let the issues die with them  The Straight Story   Jul-13-08 02:43 PM   #53 
  - Ditto. n/t  Contrary1   Jul-13-08 02:48 PM   #58 
  - "let the issues die with them" - you can't be serious.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:31 PM   #135 
  - I don't think it's bad to speak ill of the dead.  Fox Mulder   Jul-13-08 02:45 PM   #55 
  - Hey, looks like you have a soul-buddy!  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 02:49 PM   #59 
     - Except that Paul Wellstone helped people...  Fox Mulder   Jul-13-08 02:52 PM   #60 
        - In short, you LIKED Paul Wellstone and DIDN'T like Tony Snow.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:01 PM   #62 
           - You're not going to change my mind on this issue.  Fox Mulder   Jul-13-08 03:03 PM   #63 
           - Then why are you so afraid of actually looking hard at the issue?  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:05 PM   #66 
           - So who are you to say want is and isn't ethical?  madmom   Jul-13-08 03:13 PM   #68 
           - A human being who considers ethics important.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:23 PM   #76 
              - Yes but whose ethics mine or yours? Not all people consider the same things as  madmom   Jul-13-08 03:58 PM   #89 
                 - There's something called "common decency."  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 04:02 PM   #91 
                    - This has nothing to do with what I taught my children, It has to do with whose  madmom   Jul-13-08 04:48 PM   #103 
                    - If you consider ethics so relative that you don't understand  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 05:04 PM   #105 
                       - Why does what I say about him or any one bother you or any one else, it's my opinion, I'm  madmom   Jul-13-08 06:21 PM   #112 
                       - So are you teaching your children to celebrate when someone you don't like dies?  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 06:46 PM   #114 
                       - Why are you so hung up on what I teach my children? I'll but my ethics and morals up against most of  madmom   Jul-13-08 06:51 PM   #118 
                          - What you teach your children about ethics goes straight to the heart about what  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 06:53 PM   #119 
                             - My youngest is 24, I taught them to be true to themselves, where do you see that  madmom   Jul-13-08 07:08 PM   #125 
                                - Every person I've ever met who spews malicious and hateful garbage  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:36 AM   #160 
                                   - So you are saying that for me to tell the truth is malicious and hateful while you  madmom   Jul-14-08 09:52 AM   #179 
                                      - I'm saying that mocking the death of another human being,  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 03:53 PM   #188 
                                         - Show me where did I "mock" or "joke" about his death? Obviously you talk to a lot  madmom   Jul-14-08 04:20 PM   #190 
                       - Hear, hear! It's unethical for the poster to demand that you accept their opinion as your own.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:36 PM   #140 
                          - So is it unethical to argue when someone's opinion includes advocating torture?  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:38 AM   #162 
                             - Well, the freepers tell me that torture is good and protects us from the enemy.  Evoman   Jul-14-08 05:21 PM   #196 
                       - Once again, in your opinion.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:35 PM   #139 
                          - And that means...?  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:37 AM   #161 
                    - IN YOUR OPINION.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:34 PM   #138 
                       - And some people's twisted sense of "decency" demands that we torture.  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:39 AM   #163 
           - More idiotic relativism.  BlooInBloo   Jul-13-08 03:15 PM   #70 
           - How does saying that it's as wrong to mock the suffering of a right winger  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:25 PM   #78 
              - Did you get those goalpost wheels cheap?  BlooInBloo   Jul-13-08 03:57 PM   #88 
                 - In what way do you feel I "moved the goal posts?"  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 03:58 PM   #90 
                    - Oy.  BlooInBloo   Jul-13-08 04:02 PM   #92 
                       - And that person went on to say  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 04:14 PM   #94 
           - It's a provable fact that Wellstone helped people, while Snow helped people - Iraqis - be murdered.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:32 PM   #136 
              - And every Freeper I've ever argued with has insisted that "provable facts"  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:58 AM   #168 
  - partly because its cowardly, if you call me a slut after i die, i wont be able to retort  lionesspriyanka   Jul-13-08 03:16 PM   #72 
  - Yeah, it's cowardly to call Ted Bundy a murderer.  tabasco   Jul-13-08 07:11 PM   #128 
  - In other cultures, it's self defense. Nobody wants angry ghosts hanging around.  bean fidhleir   Jul-13-08 03:20 PM   #73 
  - I like it when people speak their true minds...  WillowTree   Jul-13-08 03:38 PM   #82 
  - There is nothing wrong with being critical of the dead, it is rejoicing in his death that is wrong  MiniMe   Jul-13-08 03:43 PM   #84 
  - Yeah, all those Jews celebrating Hitler's death was just so wrong.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:38 PM   #142 
  - You know, at one time I would have said that, given the stunning scale  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 09:02 AM   #169 
     - He was not JUST a right wing public figure..He was a propaganda minister  madmom   Jul-15-08 09:35 AM   #199 
        - Nothing wrong with saying that either  MiniMe   Jul-15-08 09:53 AM   #200 
  - Ted Kennedy is a good analogy. He's the right wing's favorite whipping boy.  alphafemale   Jul-14-08 06:52 AM   #157 
  - Because generally....  dems_rightnow   Jul-13-08 03:50 PM   #87 
  - because I like to think we are a little bit better than they are  book_worm   Jul-13-08 04:21 PM   #96 
  - why do people get upset when not allowed to make fun of the dead.  ileus   Jul-13-08 04:30 PM   #97 
  - Because hating goes down sooooooo smooooooooooth for some people.  Pamela Troy   Jul-13-08 04:41 PM   #99 
  - It's not. At all.  Zhade   Jul-13-08 07:01 PM   #121 
  - for most of the same reasons we shouldn't speak ill of the living  0rganism   Jul-13-08 07:25 PM   #132 
  - I think yours is the best answer. n/t  crikkett   Jul-14-08 09:49 AM   #178 
  - Sentimentality and superstition  mitchum   Jul-13-08 07:34 PM   #137 
  - Yeah, imagine all those sentimental superstitious types who actually  Pamela Troy   Jul-14-08 08:40 AM   #164 
  - I'd like to know how much restraint we're to use when Cheney kicks it.  devilgrrl   Jul-13-08 11:34 PM   #148 
  - Oh man! DU should just shut down for a month when that happens!  TorchesAndPitchforks   Jul-14-08 01:30 AM   #149 
     - True enough. Their basic philosophies live on  treestar   Jul-14-08 08:44 AM   #165 
  - people are afraid of ghosts? they fear the dead will come back to haunt them? n/t  orleans   Jul-14-08 02:33 AM   #151 
  - Isn't it enought that they are DEAD... do you need to drive a stake thru their heart as well?  BigBearJohn   Jul-14-08 02:36 AM   #152 
  - I'm not going to let a little thing like their being dead stop me from bad mouthing anyone.  ToeBot   Jul-14-08 03:09 AM   #153 
  - Wait... snow died?!  comtec   Jul-14-08 05:22 AM   #155 
  - Objective criticism is fine  LanternWaste   Jul-14-08 09:13 AM   #170 
  - I don't mind if  bigwillq   Jul-14-08 09:18 AM   #173 
  - Because they'll haunt your ass. n/t  crikkett   Jul-14-08 09:48 AM   #177 
  - Read John Donne...  SidneyCarton   Jul-14-08 09:53 AM   #180 
  - When Joan Crawford died, Bette Davis said: "You're not supposed to say  LeftinOH   Jul-14-08 10:33 AM   #182 
  - nothing wrong at all  Neo   Jul-14-08 05:56 PM   #198 
 

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