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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
42. DemocraticAboveground?
I guess that's what happens when all the critics and naysayers realize we've been right and they've been wrong for the last 8 years.

They hop on board. Problem is, they bring some baggage along. Obama's "their" candidate too, now that they're on "our" side.

I hear you Thom. Hard to have optimism, or want to give your time and money to a party that doesn't represent you very well.
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  -Just about done posting here ThomWV  Jul-11-08 07:10 AM   #0 
  - I hope not. visit the smaller forums Thom  AZDemDist6   Jul-11-08 07:13 AM   #1 
  - I suggest that you stick around,  Angela Shelley   Jul-11-08 07:15 AM   #2 
  - Don't leave, Thom.  Maddy McCall   Jul-11-08 07:15 AM   #3 
  - I am very disappointed in Obama's vote on FISA. I wish there was something I could  rhett o rick   Jul-11-08 06:27 PM   #92 
  - IMHO, this quote explains what is happening.. And will continue to happen.  Fumesucker   Jul-11-08 07:15 AM   #4 
  - I would even go as far to say that: Charisma attracts the corruptible --  Tuesday Afternoon   Jul-11-08 07:18 AM   #6 
  - To us, Bushie does not seem at all charismatic.. Anticharismatic actually.  Fumesucker   Jul-11-08 07:29 AM   #12 
     - agreed -  Tuesday Afternoon   Jul-11-08 07:36 AM   #20 
     - What TA said... I don't drink beer much, but you can bet I'd rather drink with Obama...  Radio_Lady   Jul-11-08 11:17 PM   #137 
     - Don't forget what kkkarl rove had to say about dubya the first time they met:  calimary   Jul-12-08 11:36 AM   #190 
  - This entire boondoggle has been reminding me of Dune.  Chovexani   Jul-11-08 07:50 PM   #98 
  - Ninety percent of everything is crud..  Fumesucker   Jul-12-08 12:15 AM   #150 
  - He said as much in God Emperor, IIRC...n/t  Mythsaje   Jul-12-08 01:34 AM   #163 
  - Hell yeah. Frank Herbert was a genius.  DUlover2909   Jul-12-08 03:07 AM   #170 
     - I think that's backwards...  Mythsaje   Jul-12-08 03:53 PM   #194 
  - Yeah "Power attracts the corruptable." Great quote.  DUlover2909   Jul-12-08 03:02 AM   #169 
  - Seems the GD-P infection is spreading  ixion   Jul-11-08 07:18 AM   #5 
  - The seeds of this were present in the beginning  MNBrewer   Jul-11-08 08:03 PM   #101 
     - there is much truth in your statement. the only  bbgrunt   Jul-12-08 12:54 AM   #159 
     - yeah the site would be so much better  hfojvt   Jul-12-08 03:22 AM   #171 
  - This is encouraging - I think Obama's chances of winning are very good  HughMoran   Jul-11-08 07:23 AM   #7 
  - When I walk down the street  Cronus Protagonist   Jul-11-08 07:24 AM   #8 
  - Great analogy, Cronus. Thanks so much for that.  Radio_Lady   Jul-11-08 11:28 PM   #141 
  - Stay awhile.  CJCRANE   Jul-11-08 07:24 AM   #9 
  - I think we are seeing residual drama from the Primaries  liberal N proud   Jul-11-08 07:25 AM   #10 
  - Like Thom and Others, It's Beyond That  Crisco   Jul-11-08 11:12 AM   #55 
     - Wow...good to know!  SpookyCat   Jul-11-08 08:48 PM   #106 
     - Yeah, see, it's that "sooooo bite me" part that is unneccesary...  adsosletter   Jul-11-08 09:41 PM   #117 
     - I tried to make the response as irreverent as possible,  SpookyCat   Jul-11-08 10:13 PM   #122 
        - I wish you a speedy recovery...and welcome to DU!  adsosletter   Jul-11-08 11:03 PM   #133 
        - Thank you! I appreciate that!  SpookyCat   Jul-11-08 11:23 PM   #140 
        - Sorry to hear you've been sick, SpookyCat. We've had family problems for a couple of months.  Radio_Lady   Jul-11-08 11:31 PM   #143 
           - Thank you so much Radio Lady.  SpookyCat   Jul-11-08 11:49 PM   #146 
     - As I Was Saying ...  Crisco   Jul-12-08 09:21 AM   #184 
     - Many posts come across as accusing and right leaning as the DLC. I have  higher class   Jul-11-08 10:23 PM   #123 
  - Maybe you just need a long internet break.  CrispyQGirl   Jul-11-08 07:26 AM   #11 
  - whether you post or not is not the issue but yes the condition of the party and country is bad  natrat   Jul-11-08 07:29 AM   #13 
  - My point was not the condition of the party or country - it is the condition of this website.  ThomWV   Jul-11-08 07:32 AM   #16 
     - All the more reason that you need to stay.  Tuesday Afternoon   Jul-11-08 07:38 AM   #23 
     - I've been feeling that way for over a year now.  Dr.Phool   Jul-11-08 10:49 PM   #129 
  - So, where would you go?  panzerfaust   Jul-11-08 07:30 AM   #14 
  - Must admit, I'm also bummed out and posting less. But, I won't give this place up.  leveymg   Jul-11-08 07:32 AM   #15 
  - I also am bummed and am posted a helluva lot less, and I'm avoiding  Nay   Jul-11-08 09:23 PM   #110 
     - You speak for me, Nay,  8_year_nightmare   Jul-11-08 10:42 PM   #126 
     - Nay, you are not alone. I only lirk and comment occasionally,  anitar1   Jul-11-08 10:57 PM   #131 
  - There are plenty of us here that go beyond party labels  mmonk   Jul-11-08 07:34 AM   #17 
  - I hope you stay, whether posting or not.  JohnnyLib2   Jul-11-08 07:35 AM   #18 
  - Don't go.  The Backlash Cometh   Jul-11-08 07:35 AM   #19 
  - dude -- don't go -- the more of us  xchrom   Jul-11-08 07:37 AM   #21 
  - The Long Road Back  KharmaTrain   Jul-11-08 07:37 AM   #22 
  - Anyone with FISA concerns is a disloyal, idiotic "purist" who shouldn't post in GD-P  Phoebe Loosinhouse   Jul-11-08 07:39 AM   #24 
  - But if you disagree with the mass thinking, that is that FISA is not  merh   Jul-11-08 08:43 AM   #39 
  - Then learn from those who use facts. Try www.glenngreenwald@salon.com for anything on FISA & Obama  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:16 AM   #151 
     - I don't think he has supported his opinions with actual references  merh   Jul-12-08 01:16 PM   #191 
  - I wish I could k/r your post.  emilyg   Jul-11-08 08:20 PM   #103 
  - FISA concerns are one thing  Jake3463   Jul-11-08 09:24 PM   #111 
  - Perfect Post!  Steely_Dan   Jul-11-08 10:54 PM   #130 
  - I understand totally, and feel the same for the most part  RainDog   Jul-11-08 07:39 AM   #25 
  - You said it better than I did.  ThomWV   Jul-11-08 07:47 AM   #27 
  - I imagine if the criticism took on a more constructive tone...  HughMoran   Jul-11-08 07:51 AM   #28 
  - So you don't believe that is some point that can not be passed? No deal-breaker?  ThomWV   Jul-11-08 07:53 AM   #29 
  - If you can't support our candiate due to that 1 issue, then you have issues here  HughMoran   Jul-11-08 07:58 AM   #30 
     - Trashing the constitution  Andrea   Jul-11-08 01:11 PM   #63 
     - You can support Obama and still criticize him on his horrible FISA support.  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:17 AM   #152 
        - The 2 thoughts can exist side by side.Vote Obama as better than McCain  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:18 AM   #153 
           - Buat tell Obama he's wrong on FISA and it matters.Same if he decides torture is ok.  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:19 AM   #154 
  - As someone who hasn't been posting anything lately  RainDog   Jul-11-08 08:08 AM   #32 
     - "you are the ones"  HughMoran   Jul-11-08 08:17 AM   #33 
     - I do speak for myself  RainDog   Jul-11-08 08:33 AM   #36 
        - I do care what you say  HughMoran   Jul-11-08 09:46 AM   #44 
     - the puritan/one issue label  G_j   Jul-11-08 04:33 PM   #80 
        - Hear, hear!  notsodumbhillbilly   Jul-11-08 06:38 PM   #96 
  - great post  leftchick   Jul-11-08 07:59 AM   #31 
  - I know what you and Thom mean, have gotten shit, have considered leaving also  uppityperson   Jul-11-08 11:26 AM   #57 
  - I'm sorry for what you are going through.  emmadoggy   Jul-11-08 11:51 AM   #58 
  - My take on this  turtlensue   Jul-11-08 06:13 PM   #89 
  - I like your post, turtlesnue. I suppose what scares me is  Olney Blue   Jul-11-08 07:55 PM   # 
  - I suspect this is exactly what underlies the unease with many of us...  adsosletter   Jul-11-08 09:38 PM   #116 
  - Progressives are NOT a minority in this country-we just don't have the  Lorien   Jul-11-08 11:17 PM   #138 
  - Well Stated...  Steely_Dan   Jul-11-08 11:00 PM   #132 
  - Thom - I hope you reconsider  DrDan   Jul-11-08 07:46 AM   #26 
  - I rarely ask posters not to leave but  malaise   Jul-11-08 08:21 AM   #34 
  - I think even many of the people disagreeing with you have at least  Vickers   Jul-11-08 08:21 AM   #35 
  - Stick around old Friend  symbolman   Jul-11-08 08:36 AM   #37 
  - say it isn't so, symbolman  grasswire   Jul-12-08 12:53 AM   #158 
     - Its So :)  symbolman   Jul-12-08 10:32 AM   #186 
  - Oh bullshit.  lonestarnot   Jul-11-08 08:38 AM   #38 
  - A lot of people have been saying that Obama is dead wrong on this, I just dont see what you speak of  no limit   Jul-11-08 08:46 AM   #40 
  - I won't presume to tell you what to do  awoke_in_2003   Jul-11-08 08:57 AM   #41 
  - DemocraticAboveground?  wtmusic   Jul-11-08 09:09 AM   #42 
  - I think he was wrong.  OnionPatch   Jul-11-08 09:11 AM   #43 
  - The Democratic kingmakers suffer from the curse of "conventional wisdom".  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jul-11-08 09:56 AM   #45 
  - I hardly ever comment on these threads but don't leave  Ichingcarpenter   Jul-11-08 10:01 AM   #46 
  - Who decides right and wrong on every issue and why is that person qualified?  dmordue   Jul-11-08 10:03 AM   #47 
  - Why do you agree with the FISA vote?  RainDog   Jul-11-08 10:33 AM   #49 
  - I volunteer to answer  Political Heretic   Jul-12-08 07:55 AM   #179 
     - thank you. that is a GREAT answer.  RainDog   Jul-12-08 11:07 AM   #187 
  - Disagreement is one thing. The way that it is expressed is another.  tnlefty   Jul-11-08 10:51 AM   #53 
  - Who decides right and wrong? A person called Ethics.  bean fidhleir   Jul-11-08 11:52 AM   #60 
  - Not on every issue. But some issues are wrong to support like destroying the constitution  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:21 AM   #155 
  - ** You deserve an answer to this question and I'll try to give it to you  ThomWV   Jul-12-08 06:54 AM   #176 
  - some of us have not been shy about pointing out when we feel Obama is wrong about something . . .  OneBlueSky   Jul-11-08 10:19 AM   #48 
  - You can't leave until we have a chance to revisit this thread...  SidDithers   Jul-11-08 10:36 AM   #50 
  - I know exactly how you feel, but notice the lack of a donor star,  greyhound1966   Jul-11-08 10:36 AM   #51 
  - A huge number of true blues have already left DU...  Dover   Jul-11-08 10:46 AM   #52 
  - This is nothing compared to what GDP was durring the primary.  L0oniX   Jul-11-08 10:52 AM   #54 
  - I guess you see what you want to see.  skooooo   Jul-11-08 11:24 AM   #56 
  - Isn't it though?  Laurab   Jul-11-08 02:35 PM   #66 
     - The point is though, that many of us don't think Obama had to vote for FISA  Fumesucker   Jul-11-08 03:00 PM   #70 
     - I think if everything goes on fairly Obama can't lose.  arundhatiroyfan   Jul-11-08 05:11 PM   #82 
     - What is this reality? The FISA vote has alienated some of his strongest supporters.  John Q. Citizen   Jul-11-08 05:48 PM   #86 
     - well said, John Q.  bbgrunt   Jul-12-08 01:27 AM   #161 
     - Yes...There is a lot at stake...  Steely_Dan   Jul-11-08 11:09 PM   #134 
  - Years ahead of you.  Beam Me Up   Jul-11-08 11:51 AM   #59 
  - very well said  leftchick   Jul-11-08 12:41 PM   #62 
  - Right there with you...  Psyop Samurai   Jul-11-08 03:31 PM   #73 
  - Write More!  Steely_Dan   Jul-11-08 11:11 PM   #135 
  - k and r for your post, beam!  bbgrunt   Jul-12-08 01:29 AM   #162 
  - Join Progressive Democrats of America. You will find like-minded thinkers.  robinlynne   Jul-11-08 12:31 PM   #61 
  - Obama was wrong on FISA.  KamaAina   Jul-11-08 01:14 PM   #64 
  - Don't go, we need help yanking out the weeds (n/t)  harun   Jul-11-08 01:43 PM   #65 
  - I hear you.  LWolf   Jul-11-08 02:48 PM   #67 
  - I would miss you, but completely understand your feelings.  BeHereNow   Jul-11-08 02:54 PM   #68 
  - Know exactly what you are saying perfectly well  nadinbrzezinski   Jul-11-08 02:56 PM   #69 
  - people that disagree with you aren't fools  Enrique   Jul-11-08 03:08 PM   #71 
  - I did not say they were fools for disagreeing with me - I simply said they were fools - and they are  ThomWV   Jul-11-08 03:25 PM   #72 
     - they might be right and you might be wrong  Enrique   Jul-12-08 05:12 AM   #173 
        - What a childish thing to say  ThomWV   Jul-12-08 06:07 AM   #174 
           - I consider myself well-informed and yet I am often wrong  Enrique   Jul-12-08 06:12 AM   #175 
  - You are not alone. n/t  slipslidingaway   Jul-11-08 03:35 PM   #74 
  - Post whenever it's right for you, Thom.  Psyop Samurai   Jul-11-08 03:49 PM   #75 
  - I'm with you, Thom.  Blue_In_AK   Jul-11-08 04:04 PM   #76 
  - Groupthink, ain't it wonderful?  nadinbrzezinski   Jul-11-08 04:07 PM   #77 
     - It's very troubling on a site that has UNDERGROUND  Blue_In_AK   Jul-11-08 04:08 PM   #78 
        - Nope in fact this place is becoming free republic lite  nadinbrzezinski   Jul-11-08 04:10 PM   #79 
  - Thom I always tried to read your threads when I saw your handle attached to them.  lpbk2713   Jul-11-08 04:44 PM   #81 
  - Leave if you must  ByTheRiver   Jul-11-08 05:28 PM   #83 
  - I feel you man....but giving up is not an option  slutticus   Jul-11-08 05:32 PM   #84 
  - Posting at DU has nothing to do with giving up or not, I think.  tom_paine   Jul-11-08 05:55 PM   #88 
     - that needed to be said  G_j   Jul-11-08 06:33 PM   #95 
  - Do what I do. Mainly live in the lounge  GreenPartyVoter   Jul-11-08 05:35 PM   #85 
  - Well said and true, Thom.  tom_paine   Jul-11-08 05:49 PM   #87 
  - You're right, Thom  notsodumbhillbilly   Jul-11-08 06:26 PM   #90 
  - i only drop in here and there  noiretblu   Jul-11-08 06:27 PM   #91 
  - We are Democrats what would you expect. We always fight among ourselves.  rhett o rick   Jul-11-08 06:31 PM   #93 
  - look, it's simply about numbers. As the readership expands the views are naturally  burythehatchet   Jul-11-08 06:33 PM   #94 
  - I understand, ThomWV!  themartyred   Jul-11-08 07:47 PM   #97 
  - Bye. And, you and Feingold are wrong.  Dawgs   Jul-11-08 07:55 PM   #99 
  - Would be easier to believe, if the people defending FISA weren't George Bush and Rush Limbaugh.  LVjinx   Jul-12-08 01:45 AM   #164 
  - Damn, I'm new to the site (been reading for years, just started posting)  20score   Jul-11-08 07:57 PM   #100 
  - I've been a DU'er since 2001...  deutsey   Jul-11-08 08:07 PM   #102 
  - One of Us, One of Us, One of us!!  puerco-bellies   Jul-11-08 08:32 PM   #104 
  - I feel ya. Been here since 2001 and barely recognize the place anymore.  QC   Jul-11-08 08:34 PM   #105 
  - Too many conservatives  lynyrd_skynyrd   Jul-11-08 08:59 PM   #107 
  - I'm none of those things  Jake3463   Jul-11-08 09:25 PM   #112 
  - Monarchists, Phalangists, White Guard officers, Secessionists,  Hardrada   Jul-12-08 01:53 AM   #165 
  - Nope. Can't go. Sit back down and take a DEEEEEP breath.  Raster   Jul-11-08 09:03 PM   #108 
  - ok....  Jake3463   Jul-11-08 09:21 PM   #109 
  - Neh-neh: Buh-BYE!1 n/t  UTUSN   Jul-11-08 09:29 PM   #113 
  - I hear you, Thom.  FarceOfNature   Jul-11-08 09:33 PM   #114 
  - Remember that some of the trolling comes from folks who get paid to do so.  BlueIris   Jul-11-08 09:35 PM   #115 
  - du  whathappened   Jul-11-08 09:46 PM   #118 
  - Stay informed. Just read the LBN and avoid the replies. nt  blackops   Jul-11-08 09:51 PM   #119 
  - bunch of whiners  hay rick   Jul-11-08 10:08 PM   #120 
  - many of the balancing voices have been run off.  nashville_brook   Jul-11-08 10:10 PM   #121 
  - if clinton was the nominee and she had voten for fisa, i am sure the outrage  lionesspriyanka   Jul-11-08 10:27 PM   #124 
  - Being a new guy on the DU site but a long-time liberal Democrat, I feel lucky to have  bertman   Jul-11-08 10:29 PM   #125 
  - ebb&flow  bonito   Jul-11-08 10:43 PM   #127 
  - Thom...I feel the same way  Steely_Dan   Jul-11-08 10:44 PM   #128 
  - That's it! You hit the nail on the head with this...  jannyk   Jul-12-08 02:01 AM   #166 
  - Obama's vote sucked ass.  krkaufman   Jul-11-08 11:14 PM   #136 
  - I know, what a shame that we can't constantly attack Obama  cbc5g   Jul-11-08 11:23 PM   #139 
  - Holy Molly the progressives getting scorned on this site, that's a twist  desktop   Jul-11-08 11:30 PM   #142 
  - I'm a progressive who liked Hillary even less than I liked Obama  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-13-08 12:13 PM   #205 
  - Well said Thom.  TriMetFan   Jul-11-08 11:37 PM   #144 
  - The wind is out of my sail too.  sellitman   Jul-11-08 11:42 PM   #145 
  - I agree with you. The site has become somewhat watered down.  go west young man   Jul-12-08 12:07 AM   #147 
  - Changing DU  spag68   Jul-12-08 12:10 AM   #148 
  - That's an apt comment  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-13-08 12:15 PM   #206 
  - Regarless of what you might think, your opinion is in the majority among dems.  bjobotts   Jul-12-08 12:13 AM   #149 
  - This thread has quite a few of my favorite posters on it sounding discouraged.  glitch   Jul-12-08 12:24 AM   #156 
  - I understand you.  realpolitik   Jul-12-08 12:37 AM   #157 
  - I am not sure about the Dems-but I agree about certain new members of the Democratic party  nam78_two   Jul-12-08 01:05 AM   #160 
  - Excellent Post  Steely_Dan   Jul-12-08 02:38 AM   #168 
  - It's about poor judgment  JustAnotherGen   Jul-12-08 03:33 PM   #192 
  - Just about starting posting here. And it is quite a lot  azul   Jul-12-08 02:02 AM   #167 
  - I think more people are on your side than are not  Horse with no Name   Jul-12-08 04:11 AM   #172 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-12-08 07:29 AM   #177 
  - I don't consider your view progressive.  Political Heretic   Jul-12-08 07:50 AM   #178 
  - This post would be of more value  baby_mouse   Jul-12-08 08:45 AM   #181 
  - No?  baby_mouse   Jul-12-08 09:58 PM   #197 
  - I did my first original post last night and wow, I understand your sentiment.  20score   Jul-12-08 08:39 AM   #180 
  - You're not kidding.  baby_mouse   Jul-12-08 08:47 AM   #182 
  - Please don't go  JustAnotherGen   Jul-12-08 09:19 AM   #183 
  - don't get run off.  ulysses   Jul-12-08 09:23 AM   #185 
  - DU has a lot to offer  mix   Jul-12-08 11:24 AM   #188 
  - Your one of my favs... so please stay the course  mdmc   Jul-12-08 11:28 AM   #189 
  - "Stay the course"....  baby_mouse   Jul-12-08 09:57 PM   #196 
  - I'm here less and less, but I'm not giving up yet!  NC_Nurse   Jul-12-08 03:40 PM   #193 
  - Screw it! I'm out too. After my first original post, just too many  20score   Jul-12-08 09:53 PM   #195 
  - Nah, just give up on GD and GD: Pee  Redneck Socialist   Jul-12-08 09:58 PM   #198 
  - I'm new, so I'd like to know. What's GD?  20score   Jul-12-08 10:09 PM   #200 
     - General Discussion  Redneck Socialist   Jul-12-08 10:41 PM   #201 
  - Almost everyone was criticizing his FISA vote  TheFarseer   Jul-12-08 09:59 PM   #199 
  - Another poster who can't stand that people disagree with him  robcon   Jul-12-08 11:06 PM   #202 
  - It's good that he explains his position.  baby_mouse   Jul-12-08 11:12 PM   #203 
  - How much can people take  Cherchez la Femme   Jul-13-08 10:49 AM   #204 
  - A point on the Feingold statement in the OP  SOS   Jul-13-08 12:47 PM   #207 
  - If we don't have truth, we have nothing.  TheGoldenRule   Jul-14-08 05:15 PM   #208 
 

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