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Reply #62: Your argument is extremely shortsighted and illogical. [View All]

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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
62. Your argument is extremely shortsighted and illogical.

It is based on the assumption that the Senate would vote today on it,. First, that would be impossible, since the House hasn't voted impeachment articles out of committee. Secondly, your argument assumes that no one, not one Senator would change their vote, or consider changing their vote, or bow to increased public pressure to change their vote.

Your argument ignores the very real possibility that, once the trial were to get underway, and a steady stream of damning evidence be brought forth, that the only way for republicans to save their political neck, in the face of growing public outcry, would be to distance themselves as far away from Bush and Cheney as possible. They could very well have no choice but to throw the president under the bus. We have already seen some of that, both in the house and senate.

Lastly, using your argument, concerning life, in general, if everyone felt the same way you do, we would still be in the stone age. Columbus would not have tried to prove that the earth was round, the industrial age would never have taken place, the space program would never come into existence, etc...

In short, although it matters whether Bush would be convicted, it ultimately matters a great deal more that we pursue impeachment, and at least try to hold him accountable to the rule of law.

Either you believe in the rule of law and the constitution, or you don't.
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  -For those of you against impeachment: A few questions... Joe Fields  Jun-11-08 11:52 PM   #0 
  - Sure, if you tell me how the Senate acquitting Bush of all charges would be somehow  Occam Bandage   Jun-11-08 11:54 PM   #1 
  - It's called a trial.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:02 AM   #4 
  - "It is my unshakable belief"  Occam Bandage   Jun-12-08 12:03 AM   #5 
  - His point was, impeachment and conviction ARE NOT THE SAME THING.  kgfnally   Jun-12-08 12:07 AM   #7 
     - Nobody's forgotten that. Impeachment without conviction is an enormous waste of time.  Occam Bandage   Jun-12-08 12:09 AM   #10 
        - It's plain to me that you don't think much about the rule of law.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:17 AM   #11 
        - Nope. Rule of law is great.  Occam Bandage   Jun-12-08 02:14 AM   #43 
           - how is it you know he would be aquitted?  madokie   Jun-12-08 11:32 AM   #60 
           - Your argument is extremely shortsighted and illogical.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 11:45 AM   #62 
        - Bullshit. Bullshit. BULLSHIT! can you be that blind as to not have noticed the advantages  tom_paine   Jun-12-08 12:25 AM   #16 
        - Excellent points, tom. Thanks.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:33 AM   #17 
        - Actually they could and will ignore it  nadinbrzezinski   Jun-12-08 12:43 AM   #21 
        - ...  Occam Bandage   Jun-12-08 02:11 AM   #42 
        - How far some go to keep head firmly buried.  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:07 AM   #82 
        - best post today.  nashville_brook   Jun-12-08 02:22 PM   #80 
        - The magic words in your post were "media coverage"  kgfnally   Jun-12-08 12:39 AM   #19 
        - I disagree. Impeachment is a necessity.  JDPriestly   Jun-12-08 01:47 AM   #37 
        - i wish they would waste their time on impeachment instead of funding an illegal war  spanone   Jun-12-08 11:11 AM   #53 
  - There's absolutely no reason to believe  MonkeyFunk   Jun-12-08 12:24 AM   #15 
  - Fuck this "let's not try, because we don't have a chance" meme.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:36 AM   #18 
  - It will fail  MonkeyFunk   Jun-12-08 12:46 AM   #22 
  - Please see my post.  JDPriestly   Jun-12-08 01:54 AM   #39 
  - Not having A Chance Of Success, Mr. Fields, Is An Excellent reason Not To Pitch A Fight  The Magistrate   Jun-12-08 12:57 AM   #28 
  - That is your opinion, sir. I do not share it.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:13 AM   #29 
  - There Would Be No Conviction, Sir  The Magistrate   Jun-12-08 01:26 AM   #32 
     - If we could only get to the point of a trial, sir,  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:34 AM   #34 
        - What evidence? {nt}  Aya Reiko   Jun-12-08 02:47 AM   #45 
  - Then please explain the Phony Clinton Impeachment and it's aftermath  tom_paine   Jun-12-08 01:17 AM   #30 
     - Your Analysis Above, Sir, Of the Potential Benefits Of Impeachment  The Magistrate   Jun-12-08 01:53 AM   #38 
     - Interesting. So you would have agreed with impeachment if the Dems had gotten  tom_paine   Jun-12-08 02:49 AM   #47 
        - That Is Pretty Much It, Sir  The Magistrate   Jun-12-08 09:03 AM   #50 
           - Very good point and I mostly agree, except I feel "better late than never"  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:27 AM   #83 
     - the phony clinton impechment didn't serve the repubs that well  onenote   Jun-12-08 11:21 AM   #56 
        - Missing the forest for the trees. Short-term, maybe what you say is partially true  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:37 AM   #84 
  - You would've made a great advisor to General Custer  onenote   Jun-12-08 11:18 AM   #55 
     - You sure as hell would not have made a great advisor to our founding fathers.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:46 PM   #73 
        - Exactly. n/t  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:38 AM   #85 
  - Conviction is not the point. Preserving the historical record is the point.  JDPriestly   Jun-12-08 01:55 AM   #41 
     - So the only reason you want to do it is because "it feels good"?  Aya Reiko   Jun-12-08 02:49 AM   #46 
        - No -- to preserve the historical record.  JDPriestly   Jun-12-08 11:08 AM   #52 
  - To quote Homer Simpson  zeos3   Jun-12-08 01:42 AM   #36 
     - And is not Homer Simpson the Poster Child of Modern Imperial Amerika?  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:40 AM   #86 
  - So, I suppose *you* can tell us how the Senate acquitting him would prevent him from being tried  Ghost in the Machine   Jun-12-08 01:51 PM   #75 
  - I don't think that inpeachment isn't justified...I just want us to keep our eye on the brass ring.  MercutioATC   Jun-12-08 12:00 AM   #2 
  - And I just want our leaders to keep an eye on the constitution.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:05 AM   #6 
     - That's how I see it  mvd   Jun-12-08 12:08 AM   #9 
     - Don't get me wrong, Kucinich is providing a valuable service.  MercutioATC   Jun-12-08 12:19 AM   #12 
  - Love your avatar  HughMoran   Jun-12-08 12:01 AM   #3 
  - Thanks. Seven years of Bush has given me a headache I can't get rid of.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:08 AM   #8 
  - living with fear and what-ifs hasn't accomplished diddly squat  temperancedissent   Jun-12-08 12:21 AM   #13 
  - Your premise is just wrong  MonkeyFunk   Jun-12-08 12:23 AM   #14 
  - And your ideology has a major disconnect.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:41 AM   #20 
     - My ideology  MonkeyFunk   Jun-12-08 12:47 AM   #23 
     - There are many reasons why people don't want it  nadinbrzezinski   Jun-12-08 12:56 AM   #27 
  - k&r  Swamp Rat   Jun-12-08 12:48 AM   #24 
  - I don't think ANY Du'er is against impeachment, but many realize...  HardWorkingDem   Jun-12-08 12:49 AM   #25 
  - let me answer with a few questions of my own  Enrique   Jun-12-08 12:52 AM   #26 
  - No one person is bigger than this country, Enrique.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:21 AM   #31 
  - False premise from the start: Who says...  JackRiddler   Jun-12-08 01:38 AM   #35 
     - I totally agree! I have never, EVER understood the "political"  Raksha   Jun-12-08 02:25 AM   #44 
        - Because people care first and foremost about how they;re going to pay  onenote   Jun-12-08 11:27 AM   #57 
  - I'm hoping President Obama will join  EC   Jun-12-08 01:31 AM   #33 
  - Your logic is faulty  Firespirit   Jun-12-08 01:54 AM   #40 
  - You've made my case for me, and you don't even know it.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 06:26 PM   #81 
  - Giving Bush an opportunity to walk away "right"  loyalsister   Jun-12-08 03:13 AM   #48 
  - If we do not try and hold him accountable, then who should we ever hold  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 11:54 AM   #63 
     - Nothing about my post says we don't hold them accountable  loyalsister   Jun-12-08 12:15 PM   #68 
        - everything in your post says exactly that.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:01 PM   #69 
  - Why anyone would bother answering your abusive OP is a mystery to me.  cali   Jun-12-08 04:00 AM   #49 
  - You bothered.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 11:57 AM   #65 
  - Let's see... those with a different opinion of how this should be handled:  PeaceNikki   Jun-12-08 09:15 AM   #51 
  - Let's take these one at a time...  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 12:13 PM   #67 
  - I love the superiority of the leftier-than-thou wing.  BlooInBloo   Jun-12-08 11:12 AM   #54 
  - some of you seem to have forgotten that it's really not about  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:05 PM   #70 
     - blahblahblah... No one else is a real American... blahblahblah.. .you're the only ones who care...  BlooInBloo   Jun-12-08 01:06 PM   #71 
        - Nice straw man. Irrelevant and totally bullshit, but an excellent debating tactic.  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:42 AM   #87 
  - Will Kucinich's Bills of Impeachment succeed in removing Bush from power?  bryant69   Jun-12-08 11:28 AM   #58 
  - I can't answer that question. I will say that it's a start.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 02:20 PM   #78 
  - My one qualm.  sofa king   Jun-12-08 11:30 AM   #59 
  - if hearings are held, they will be heavily publicized and the evil of this administration will be  yellowdogintexas   Jun-12-08 11:40 AM   #61 
  - Guns?  slackmaster   Jun-12-08 11:55 AM   #64 
  - It would take one of two things for me to support impeachment procedings, no matter the crime.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-12-08 12:13 PM   #66 
  - "principle", but yah overall.  BlooInBloo   Jun-12-08 01:27 PM   #72 
     - So then, you believe that upholding the constitution is a matter of convenience?  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 01:50 PM   #74 
        - Answered in #71  BlooInBloo   Jun-12-08 01:56 PM   #76 
        - That was no answer.  Joe Fields   Jun-12-08 02:01 PM   #77 
           - Correct Joe, that was no answer. It was an insult.  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 09:45 AM   #89 
              - As you and I, and a few others are aware, tom, it isn't easy  Joe Fields   Jun-13-08 11:46 AM   #91 
                 - And DU is one of the most enlightened, conscious places on the web.  tom_paine   Jun-13-08 12:51 PM   #93 
        - Impeachment procedings won't help uphold the constitution.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jun-13-08 10:02 AM   #90 
           - Excuse me? Praying that Bush will be struck by lightning is a stated goal  Joe Fields   Jun-13-08 11:54 AM   #92 
  - BIDEN will support impeachment if he goes after Iran.  nashville_brook   Jun-12-08 02:22 PM   #79 
  - They are following their leaders' excuses.  mmonk   Jun-13-08 09:43 AM   #88 
  - Exactly. IF NOT NOW, WHEN?  Overseas   Jun-13-08 12:54 PM   #94 

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