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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. One of the facts regarding the discovery of oil is that we have for
years been able to do things that we will not be able to do after depletion.

One of those things is live in areas where there is not enough water because it would be impossible to pump the water needed to these areas once cheap oil is gone. We need to look at what is going to be possible and give up the impossible. After the water is used up by continuing life as it is now lived where are you going for your water?

Kunstler in his book The Long Emergency recognizes the implications of global warming on the Southwest and it is not good. If he is correct then using up what little water we have left to live in a desert is not a good idea.
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  -Great Lakes fending off horde of sippers in 'water war' NNN0LHI  May-26-08 07:00 PM   #0 
  - I LOVE what passes for a water war in this country.  otherlander   May-26-08 07:04 PM   #1 
  - Yeah, you live in Arizona because it doesn't rain, then you want  SmokingJacket   May-26-08 07:05 PM   #2 
  - I suppose there are all sorts of arguments  ulysses   May-26-08 07:05 PM   #3 
  - I supported Bill Richardson until he said...  hornblast   May-26-08 07:10 PM   #5 
     - What's wrong with sharing water? n/t  cynatnite   May-26-08 07:16 PM   #8 
     - Fossil water.  NutmegYankee   May-26-08 07:31 PM   #11 
     - The Great Lakes' problem is shared by 90% of the world's lakes...  cynatnite   May-26-08 07:39 PM   #14 
        - I don't know about the others, but Lake Michigan  shraby   May-26-08 07:47 PM   #19 
        - The level of Lake Superior hit an all-time low in 2006  NNN0LHI   May-26-08 08:03 PM   #27 
        - If people want drinking water they can move out of the desert  malakai2   May-26-08 08:17 PM   #30 
        - My husband and I considering moving our family to southern New Mexico...  cynatnite   May-26-08 08:30 PM   #32 
        - It's a desert. Or didn't you hear? nt  mycritters2   May-26-08 09:04 PM   #50 
        - Ethiopia obviously can't  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:08 PM   #55 
        - thanks, that's an excellent point  Scout   May-27-08 06:52 AM   #98 
        - Actually, with modern technology, you can fuck all you want...  Tesha   May-27-08 07:19 AM   #107 
        - Only asshole Republicans did this.  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:16 PM   #62 
        - I live in western South Dakota  malakai2   May-26-08 09:26 PM   #66 
        - malakai2, that was one excellent post.  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:48 PM   #79 
        - Don't forget to mention all those golf courses, pools and green lawns they want  kineta   May-28-08 11:00 AM   #127 
        - I live in northern SD, and moved to SD from OH  liberalhistorian   May-29-08 10:39 PM   #148 
        - But you are choosing to move to an area you know has little water.  Marrah_G   May-27-08 07:18 AM   #106 
        - That's a thoughtful anaysis, thanks  Canuckistanian   May-26-08 09:13 PM   #60 
        - Are there any fully independent and self-sufficient locales in the United States?  LanternWaste   May-30-08 10:45 AM   #153 
        - Drinking water?  Enthusiast   May-26-08 08:49 PM   #37 
        - You want Great lakes Water? Simple solution.  JonathanChance   May-26-08 09:00 PM   #45 
        - Exactily !  Lifetimedem   May-31-08 04:03 PM   #159 
        - people need to live where the water is....  Scout   May-27-08 06:49 AM   #97 
        - How about a trade?  FORREST GRUMP   May-29-08 03:56 PM   #142 
        - "Denying people drinking water is not going to solve the problems."  bean fidhleir   May-27-08 07:02 AM   #100 
     - One of the facts regarding the discovery of oil is that we have for  jwirr   May-26-08 07:54 PM   #22 
     - It's far more complicated than that.  knitter4democracy   May-26-08 09:01 PM   #46 
     - Nothing is wrong with sharing water, come here and get your drink.  notadmblnd   May-29-08 10:22 PM   #147 
     - Yeah I lost a LOT of respect for him when he said that.  Indenturedebtor   May-27-08 01:56 AM   #96 
  - Y'know, this is how civil wars start: When different regions of a country fight over resources.  Selatius   May-26-08 07:09 PM   #4 
  - Water resources, our next war, and you can't drink oil.  lonestarnot   May-26-08 07:13 PM   #6 
  - law of unintended consequences:  ulysses   May-26-08 07:35 PM   #13 
  - Growing crops in areas that need constant irrigation  Enthusiast   May-26-08 08:53 PM   #39 
  - Like moving to the desert? Stupid shit like that? nt  mycritters2   May-26-08 08:54 PM   #40 
  - And a desert that is batshit crazy for richie golfers.  lonestarnot   May-26-08 09:27 PM   #68 
  - actually, I had in mind cosmetic things like watering lawns.  ulysses   May-26-08 09:31 PM   #72 
     - The only people who have the right to live there are those willing to live within  bean fidhleir   May-27-08 07:13 AM   #105 
  - Stupid shit, like pumping it into a desert? nt  NCevilDUer   May-28-08 10:26 AM   #120 
  - That's too bad. People in the South and West will just have to move back North.  NEOBuckeye   May-26-08 07:57 PM   #26 
  - 1. what "back"? not everyone came from "back east".  ulysses   May-26-08 08:07 PM   #28 
  - One difference, of course, is that if you live *WITHIN* the watershed...  Tesha   May-27-08 07:33 AM   #110 
  - Sustainability  Hans Moleman   May-31-08 02:47 PM   #157 
  - Y'know, I would advance the argument that perhaps the US should be broken into several nations.  Selatius   May-26-08 08:15 PM   #29 
  - So what kind of mental giant are you?  Enthusiast   May-26-08 08:55 PM   #41 
  - Heh, yet you automatically preclude any idea of a peaceful separation. Who's the mental giant? nt  Selatius   May-26-08 11:51 PM   #93 
  - Oh relax, it will happen someday- remember that even Rome fell.  Marrah_G   May-27-08 07:26 AM   #109 
  - I think it will before long.  Marrah_G   May-27-08 07:24 AM   #108 
  - The hell of it is, all those people that move to the desert don't want  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 08:43 PM   #35 
  - States like Michigan and Penn don't own that water...  SidDithers   May-26-08 08:41 PM   #34 
     - yes, and Canada doesn't want the Great Lakes water going anywhere either n/t  Scout   May-27-08 06:57 AM   #99 
  - Of course we need to protect them. Try telling the MI GOP that, though.  knitter4democracy   May-26-08 07:15 PM   #7 
  - The Great Lakes supply over 30 million people drinking water...  cynatnite   May-26-08 07:23 PM   #10 
  - Drinking it isn't the problem - but selling it off to the desert states  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 08:46 PM   #36 
  - Exactly.  knitter4democracy   May-26-08 09:03 PM   #49 
  - It's part of it, though.  knitter4democracy   May-26-08 09:02 PM   #48 
  - wow...that's crazy if true  Blue_Tires   May-28-08 10:57 AM   #126 
     - It's all the talk up north.  knitter4democracy   May-28-08 02:41 PM   #129 
  - Forget Oil -- It's all about WATER  elfin   May-26-08 07:20 PM   #9 
  - You bring up a good point that most people are unaware of -  hedgehog   May-30-08 10:25 AM   #152 
  - I think it will be inevitable that this country will install a nationwide aqueduct system.  A HERETIC I AM   May-26-08 07:32 PM   #12 
  - That natural flow into the Atlantic has the environmental effect of  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 08:50 PM   #38 
  - There is no reason to think the St. Lawrence Seaway would become a trickle.  A HERETIC I AM   May-26-08 10:11 PM   #84 
  - What surplus?  malakai2   May-26-08 10:33 PM   #87 
  - There was no reason 50 years ago to think the Colorado would  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 10:34 PM   #88 
  - Actually, you have your Central Valley reference a bit backwards there.  Xithras   May-27-08 04:35 PM   #119 
  - Or those who moved to the South and southwest for the heat and dry air,  mycritters2   May-26-08 08:57 PM   #42 
  - People move to various regions in this country for a variety of reasons....  A HERETIC I AM   May-26-08 10:15 PM   #85 
     - But those two things are not similar  malakai2   May-26-08 11:12 PM   #90 
     - If they prefer to be warm, they should put on a sweater!  bean fidhleir   May-27-08 09:08 AM   #114 
  - OMG! This is exactly why we shouldn't do this.  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:22 PM   #65 
     - It does not pass for a good idea. It is however, the reality.  A HERETIC I AM   May-26-08 10:08 PM   #83 
  - The Great Lakes should be protected.  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 07:39 PM   #15 
  - y'all got everything you'll ever need in abundance up there?  ulysses   May-26-08 07:40 PM   #16 
  - Well, if we're talking trade here...  malakai2   May-26-08 11:26 PM   #91 
  - Of course...stupid people and their kids should go thirsty...  cynatnite   May-26-08 07:45 PM   #17 
     - Oh, so people here in the Midwest should go thirsty...  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 07:47 PM   #18 
     - You're the one calling AZ and NM residents stupid...  cynatnite   May-26-08 07:49 PM   #20 
     - Why not set up desal plants?  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 07:50 PM   #21 
     - Bullcrap.  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 08:58 PM   #43 
     - They're the ones who chose to go without adequate water,  mycritters2   May-26-08 08:59 PM   #44 
     - Building THIS in a desert is stupid.  mycritters2   May-26-08 09:08 PM   #56 
     - no one is saying they cannot have any water  Scout   May-27-08 07:04 AM   #102 
     - Trade you some Arizona copper.  Ptah   May-26-08 09:07 PM   #54 
        - Michigan has copper.... n./t  Scout   May-27-08 07:06 AM   #103 
        - And of course, everyone in Phoenix works in the copper mines.  NCevilDUer   May-28-08 10:34 AM   #121 
     - no, just move back to the habitable areas they abandoned  galledgoblin   May-26-08 07:55 PM   #24 
     - Agreed.  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 07:55 PM   #25 
     - My uncle has lived in NM for 30 years...his daughter and grandchildren...  cynatnite   May-26-08 08:35 PM   #33 
        - and if they want to stay there, fine...  galledgoblin   May-26-08 09:04 PM   #53 
        - What % of the homes in Phoenix  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:29 PM   #69 
           - What percent of the homes in Phoenix have green lawns?  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 09:30 PM   #71 
           - I have no idea, but it's insane to think that ANYONE owns a PRIVATE POOL  galledgoblin   May-26-08 09:42 PM   #78 
           - Google Earth pic of random neighbourhood in Phoenix...  SidDithers   May-27-08 08:07 AM   #112 
           - See, these people would squander  Enthusiast   May-27-08 08:37 AM   #113 
           - Holy shit!! WTF is wrong with those people?!!  mycritters2   May-27-08 01:57 PM   #115 
           - I saw A LOT of pools in Phoenix and surrounding cities. What's your point?  kineta   May-28-08 11:11 AM   #128 
        - And it's time to move. nt  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:26 PM   #67 
     - maybe they can drink the water they are using for their golf courses and swimming pools  Scout   May-27-08 07:02 AM   #101 
  - A gaggle of geese, a hoarde of sippers...And now you know  Whoa_Nelly   May-26-08 07:54 PM   #23 
  - They've sucked so much water out of the Colorado that it no longer reaches the ocean  Ferd Berfle   May-26-08 08:22 PM   #31 
  - Well put. nt  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 09:04 PM   #51 
     - Another +1 nt  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:30 PM   #70 
  - A line must be drawn here.  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:01 PM   #47 
  - People that live in the desert sw want our water to supply the fountains of Las vegas?  greenman3610   May-26-08 09:04 PM   #52 
  - And we'll keep our copper.  Ptah   May-26-08 09:09 PM   #57 
  - I haven't asked for your copper.  mycritters2   May-26-08 09:10 PM   #58 
  - Whose copper do you depend on?  Ptah   May-26-08 09:12 PM   #59 
     - If you decided not to make copper available, I'd have to learn to cope.  mycritters2   May-26-08 09:14 PM   #61 
     - It would be un-christian to not share our natural resources.  Ptah   May-26-08 09:16 PM   #63 
        - You moved to where the resources aren't available.  mycritters2   May-26-08 09:19 PM   #64 
        - Adult, what a concept! nt  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:34 PM   #75 
        - well, then, the Iraqis should be happy to share their oil with us  greenman3610   May-26-08 09:37 PM   #76 
        - It would be un-christian to loot your neighbors' resources. nt  NCevilDUer   May-28-08 10:39 AM   #122 
        - On second thought, it sounds VERY christian. nt  NCevilDUer   May-29-08 02:49 PM   #139 
        - Is it Christian to destory one area's ecosystem to fill swimming pools and water golf courses  gollygee   May-28-08 10:49 AM   #125 
        - Not being a christian,  Book Lover   May-29-08 12:44 AM   #136 
     - Michigan's copper.  Fox Mulder   May-26-08 09:32 PM   #73 
     - The Anaconda mines in Chile. probably.  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 10:00 PM   #81 
  - Michigan still has plenty, actually.  knitter4democracy   May-28-08 02:44 PM   #130 
  - You are right!  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:32 PM   #74 
  - And midwest water is already in short supply.  NCevilDUer   May-26-08 10:24 PM   #86 
  - I'd like to see a map  ulysses   May-26-08 09:37 PM   #77 
  - Ulysses, it would be interesting.  Enthusiast   May-26-08 09:53 PM   #80 
  - thanks for the link to this water war story  mdmc   May-26-08 10:03 PM   #82 
  - I can't say that I blame people for moving to the Southwest.  riverdeep   May-26-08 10:57 PM   #89 
  - It's inconvenient to farm and beside that work can hired out anyway  nolabels   May-26-08 11:37 PM   #92 
  - Not to continue with the dead horse but  Enthusiast   May-27-08 03:51 PM   #116 
  - So you want to keep your water. Try keeping your populace that flees here.  Neshanic   May-26-08 11:53 PM   #94 
  - if you're an example of the people we will find, no problem  Scout   May-27-08 07:12 AM   #104 
  - No problem- I don't do well in intense heat and sun.  Marrah_G   May-27-08 07:34 AM   #111 
  - We lost jobs to you, that's why.  knitter4democracy   May-28-08 02:47 PM   #131 
  - Lake Erie is one of the cleanest fresh-water lakes  Ikonoklast   May-29-08 08:00 PM   #144 
  - The shorter, warmer winters are lowering the water levels in the Great Lakes...  tokenlib   May-27-08 01:42 AM   #95 
  - Can you envision foreign tankers  Enthusiast   May-27-08 03:54 PM   #117 
     - Rumor has it that it's already happening.  knitter4democracy   May-28-08 02:48 PM   #132 
        - It is a frightening prospect.  Enthusiast   May-29-08 12:21 AM   #135 
  - This is a message from your friendly neighbourhood Canadian:  Evoman   May-27-08 04:29 PM   #118 
  - water for Golf Courses in the desert SW  LeftHander   May-28-08 10:44 AM   #123 
  - People forget that the water doesn't belong to the US  gollygee   May-28-08 10:46 AM   #124 
  - Damn straight.  knitter4democracy   May-28-08 02:49 PM   #133 
     - That's Right--We ARE Our Own Country Up Here  Hidden Stillness   May-29-08 10:37 AM   #137 
        - Totally!  knitter4democracy   May-29-08 03:54 PM   #141 
  - The desert states have to develop sustainable lifestyles.  ozone_man   May-28-08 03:22 PM   #134 
  - Lake Michigan is Chicago's sewage treatment plant.  L0oniX   May-29-08 10:41 AM   #138 
  - and nobody shits in Wisconsin?  LSK   May-29-08 02:55 PM   #140 
     - I was just going for the largest city along Lake Michigan. I'm sure Milwaukee beer drinkers  L0oniX   May-29-08 07:41 PM   #143 
  - Individual states making decisions about access to navigable waters like these.  flvegan   May-29-08 08:12 PM   #145 
  - John Wesley Powell  Mendocino   May-29-08 10:15 PM   #146 
  - Jesus - there are a lot of self-righeous republican acting ASSHOLES in this thread  dbackjon   May-29-08 11:01 PM   #149 
  - I wouldn't say that. It's just a passionate issue.  NutmegYankee   May-30-08 12:17 AM   #150 
  - I don't mind if some people have to live in desert areas  galledgoblin   May-30-08 02:09 AM   #151 
     - So you don't use any modern amenities in your house?  dbackjon   May-30-08 01:12 PM   #154 
        - I consider the northeast-great lakes region to be my neighborhood  galledgoblin   May-31-08 02:36 PM   #156 
  - Hark! The forthcoming invasion of Canada! n/t  Toucano   May-30-08 01:16 PM   #155 
  - What is needed is tertiary water treatment along with conservation.  seasat   May-31-08 03:56 PM   #158 

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