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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. My suggestion...
Edited on Fri May-23-08 12:04 AM by ColbertWatcher
...use his own words against him.

"Government exists to protect freedom..."

Remind him that you're talking specifically about American government, not some obscure, random government, which can be used to keep moving the goal posts.

America's government was created based on what had existed previously with the goal of avoiding past mistakes. America's government continuously strives to do things better for more of its citizens; it does not exist in a vacuum or safely removed from reality. The most important component of America's chosen government is that it is made up of the people, by the people and for the people.

One of the things America's citizen government tries to do is provide for all its citizens. When our country started, there were only four types of citizen:
* land owning males
* males who didn't own land
* females
* slaves

We've come a long way and the government has grown the entire time based on the needs of the citizens and at the speed the citizens have dictated.

(ON EDIT fixing this sentence for grammar) It has not been easy, but we've always risen to the challenge and have forced our representatives not to betray our vision.

When America was finally ready to dissolve the institution of slavery, the government had to adapt. When women were given the right to vote, the government had to adapt. When children were no longer considered employees, the government had to adapt. To believe that any group that opposed the new way (ending slavery, allowing women to vote, preventing children from being exploited) would simply change their beliefs just because the government said so is naive. The people the government elected to represent them had to have something to back up the laws they created and provide an infrastructure that insured checks and balances, a capacity for citizen to petition any redress and a way to change or amend any existing law.

If there is a sincere belief that the government is becoming too much of a "nanny state", but our government allows for any dissent or disapproval without punishment.

The government also allows, however, for programs and structures that prevent a minority from losing protections based on the beliefs of a majority. That's why we longer have slaves, women can vote and children can get an education to learn about their government instead of working a job they may not be ready for.

(Hope that helps)
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  -How would you respond to this? OmahaBlueDog  May-22-08 03:59 PM   #0 
  - goddess forfend that we should actually act like a community, and look after each other,  niyad   May-22-08 04:01 PM   #1 
  - And those who try get shot down too...  HypnoToad   May-24-08 03:16 PM   #37 
  - simple minded isn't he/she.  jaksavage   May-22-08 04:01 PM   #2 
  - Are you talking about the journal writer or me?  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:05 PM   #5 
  - Probably useless  wryter2000   May-22-08 04:03 PM   #3 
  - I was thinking that the founding fathers could not have presupposed the rise of capital  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:12 PM   #12 
     - A few of the founders saw it coming  Mojambo   May-22-08 04:27 PM   #23 
  - I dunno about this one:  BayouBengal07   May-22-08 04:04 PM   #4 
  - .. and just how does feeding the hungry and providing medical care for all impede freedom?  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:07 PM   #9 
     - I would expect a conservative to label taxes an abrogation of freedom  uberllama42   May-24-08 07:19 PM   #50 
        - Actually, you could do both  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 08:12 PM   #62 
  - I don't see gvt existing to protect freedom. I see it as (utopian I knw)...  uppityperson   May-22-08 04:06 PM   #6 
  - It would be a very sad Nation to live in, if we as a society (people) do not do everything...  LakeSamish706   May-22-08 04:06 PM   #7 
  - "Government exists to protect freedom"  Mojambo   May-22-08 04:07 PM   #8 
  - He may not, but I'll plan to take a look at it  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:16 PM   #16 
  - Exactly. That's what I wrote above but more succinctly. Than you.  uppityperson   May-22-08 04:28 PM   #24 
  - Bingo!  Mind_your_head   May-22-08 04:30 PM   #26 
  - Well, ask him just who should ensure that food and drugs are safe?  n2doc   May-22-08 04:08 PM   #10 
  - Can I plagiarize some of that?  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:14 PM   #14 
  - Have it all!  n2doc   May-22-08 04:26 PM   #20 
  - Why, clearly Holy Mother Invisible Hand will ensure that!  Posteritatis   May-24-08 07:21 PM   #53 
  - Sorry to say this  magellan   May-22-08 04:09 PM   #11 
  - My view is that--in an industrial, technological society--government can and should EMPOWER people.  Perry Logan   May-22-08 04:13 PM   #13 
  - Government does NOT exist to protect freedom. Every person on the earth is born with 'certain  sinkingfeeling   May-22-08 04:16 PM   #15 
  - I can never get over the RW disconnect  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:26 PM   #21 
  - "assist me in the enforcement of contracts"  dchill   May-22-08 04:17 PM   #17 
  - PROFIT has become GOD!  Mind_your_head   May-22-08 05:00 PM   #28 
  - Try this:  POAS   May-22-08 04:21 PM   #18 
  - beats hell outta the *nanny state for corporations* we currently have.n/t.  nosmokes   May-22-08 04:23 PM   #19 
  - The Preamble to the US Constitution  Jim__   May-22-08 04:26 PM   #22 
  - Better we should have a government that taxes the hell out of us and leaves us vulnerable and  Blue State Native   May-22-08 04:30 PM   #25 
  - Thank you, all who responded!  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 04:40 PM   #27 
  - OK -- I stole from most everyone in the thread, and I came up with this response.  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 10:51 PM   #29 
  - my thought  some guy   May-22-08 11:19 PM   #30 
  - I like that, too!  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 11:25 PM   #31 
  - My suggestion...  ColbertWatcher   May-22-08 11:44 PM   #32 
  - It does help -- thanks!  OmahaBlueDog   May-22-08 11:58 PM   #33 
     - You're welcome, I had to change some of the grammar. n/t  ColbertWatcher   May-23-08 12:05 AM   #34 
  - The journal writer is a simpleton  jaksavage   May-23-08 12:16 PM   #35 
  - So, after stealing from all of you, I posted a response and this is what I got back  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 11:41 AM   #36 
  - About labor  HypnoToad   May-24-08 03:19 PM   #38 
  - How 'bout labor  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 05:09 PM   #41 
  - Wow.  ColbertWatcher   May-24-08 03:32 PM   #40 
  - There are so many problems with that "product of labor" argument  Unvanguard   May-24-08 07:59 PM   #58 
  - He has the definition of government wrong..  RedCappedBandit   May-24-08 03:25 PM   #39 
  - ..but he distilled the modern conservative movement perfectly  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 05:14 PM   #42 
  - A society is judged by how it cares for its least able  proud2Blib   May-24-08 05:19 PM   #43 
  - That's what I always thought  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 06:02 PM   #44 
  - I am absolutely against a nanny-state. If someone can't afford toilet paper, I'll gladly chip in  mach2   May-24-08 06:18 PM   #45 
  - If they couldn't afford TP, I could suggest "The Fountainhead"  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 07:23 PM   #55 
     - Just now I actually did laugh out loud! It doesn't happen all that often.  mach2   May-24-08 07:35 PM   #56 
  - for all the "nanny state" talk, i'm willing to bet  Blue_Tires   May-24-08 06:53 PM   #46 
  - I'll bet if a strip-club opened up on the property next door, he'd embrace zoning!  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 07:20 PM   #52 
  - Is he/she reading Ayn Rand?  Lost-in-FL   May-24-08 07:03 PM   #47 
  - Yup  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 07:15 PM   #48 
     - He/She's a very confused person then.  Lost-in-FL   May-24-08 07:18 PM   #49 
  - Well, the people in charge right now are certainly not progressives  MasonJar   May-24-08 07:19 PM   #51 
  - Sounds like your typical libertarian moron...  sendero   May-24-08 07:21 PM   #54 
  - Actually, Thomas Jefferson's phrasing is quite interesting.  Unvanguard   May-24-08 07:52 PM   #57 
  - Can I steal this?  OmahaBlueDog   May-24-08 08:06 PM   #60 
     - Go ahead. The ideas are the important thing.  Unvanguard   May-24-08 08:11 PM   #61 
  - I think that's fine. But  salguine   May-24-08 08:06 PM   #59 
  - Is it a Nanny State  SalmonChantedEvening   May-24-08 09:02 PM   #63 
 

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